Blind Leading the Blind

[GenX]

<span style='font-size: 16pt'>The View from Down Undah'</span>


" It was one of those rare, particularly sunny days in Vancouver in September when, addressing an audience at the University of British Columbia, I suggested that multiculturalism and its partner in crime, moral relativism, were leading to the demise of Western values.

"But you must understand," implored a well-intentioned woman in the audience, "multiculturalism is Canada's gift to the world."

If Australia is set to follow Canada, then thanks, but no thanks. Call me ungrateful, but we should have returned the gift to Canada long ago. I say that as someone who has long adored Canada. Its politics may be as dripping wet as Vancouver, but the people are warm and funny, and there is something sweet about the US's insecure, slightly wimpy northern neighbour. Yet there comes a point when weakness morphs into a reckless death wish.

That point is about now. I'm back in Canada and the distinct chill is not just in the air."

"...Canada shows where we [Australia] will end up in due time: with a system of governance where large swaths of social policy have been delegated by parliament to the unelected grey bureaucrats, who get to implement "progressive" policies that could never get through a body of elected politicians."

"...In the Canadian multicultural zeitgeist, where bland political correctness is preferred, those on the Right tend to get hit more often by ludicrous complaints to human rights commissions. A bunch of law students marched off to a Canadian human rights commission complaining about Maclean's for running an excerpt from Mark Steyn's book America Alone: The End of the World as We Know It."

"...So, we need to watch Canada. As it goes, so will we. And even if you can stomach the idea of handing over power over social policy to unelected bureaucrats and self-opinionated lawyers, you might like to hang on to free speech. Oh Canada, where are you taking us?"


Indeed.

LINK (http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,23058214-5013450,00.html)

[Soundbear]

I really don't think I would prefer the american way.

[starterwiz]

Is this your way of defending and rationalizing the fact that you DON'T have freedom of speech?

Why do you keep saying that? We have less freedom of speech in Canada than they do in the U.S. Have you read about Ezra Levant lately?

[Soundbear]

I'm sorry, but I have much less respect for a country that keeps people jailed for years without charges or any recourse.

Re Levant, from wikipedia:
"Among his 10 reasons were Levant's views that the departure of Quebec from Canadian confederation would lead to the elimination of bilingualism and multiculturalism, that it would give the Canadian government the "fortitude" to say no to "other special interest groups" such as women, First Nations and environmentalists."

Sorry, but I don't believe that a straight "No" to these groups is a good idea.

But Barry, we are no different. That's my point. We are made of the same stuff.

Like you, I don't like Gitmo. But we send people to foreign countries to be tortured; we haul people in front of Human Rights Commissions and fine people for expressing their views. We take Indians out for moonlight walks in 30 below weather and tazer strangers at the airports of our countries till they die and then cover it up.

I think Canadians need to gain respect for themselves.. and we cannot do that by continually expressing our disdain for the policies of Big Brother. That's too cheap.

Being critical from our armchairs is too easy, and it is lazy and it is, in a perverse kind of way, self-aggrandizing. And from a spiritual point of view, doesn't it feel wrong to continually continually criticize without being a part of it or without any solutions? It does, from where I sit.

Let's fix some problems instead of just harping on them.

As far as Ezra Levant is concerned, I meant for you to find that he is defending himself as we speak in front of a Human Rights Commission for publishing those cartoons.

[Hans]

"And from a spiritual point of view, doesn't it feel wrong to continually continually criticize without being a part of it or without any solutions? It does, from where I sit."

That's the same like the whole abortion issue. The Church is against it, Pope keeps criticizing anyone who is not against it. But in the end the Church does nothing to come up with an actual solution to this world wide spread problem. Stemm cell research, the same thing.

So you are really no different then Barry with his commenst about the US. You criticize without bringing forward a permanent solution...

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Hans</div><div class="ubbcode-body">"And from a spiritual point of view, doesn't it feel wrong to continually continually criticize without being a part of it or without any solutions? It does, from where I sit."

That's the same like the whole abortion issue. The Church is against it, Pope keeps criticizing anyone who is not against it. But in the end the Church does nothing to come up with an actual solution to this world wide spread problem. Stemm cell research, the same thing.

So you are really no different then Barry with his commenst about the US. You criticize without bringing forward a permanent solution... </div></div>

Hans, not being a part of the church scene (apparently, otherwise you wouldn't have said this), you speak from ignorance. The church does a ton of stuff in this regard. It counsels young women to go full term with their pregnancies. It has opened thousands of counselling centres across the continent that are funded by.... the church, not government. And Christians everywhere stand ready to adopt any unwanted child. I can name names and give you addresses of people who do this, and I can tell you about people who have gone to jail in Canada for their activism in this regard.

So Hans, your comment is understandable, because you are not involved, but you really ought not to talk so assertively about stuff that's outside of your experience. If you were in an armchair, all you might hear about are the criticisms that are eagerly reported on in your favourite news source. Whereas you seldom hear about the good stuff being done by Christians (Catholic and Protestant alike).

[Return of Too Many Daves]

So educate him, as to what the church does. Isn't that how debates are supposed to go. Remove his blinkers.

[GenX]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Barry Morris</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I really don't think I would prefer the american way. </div></div>

You shouldn't prefer the American way...you've been inculcated with collective mediocrity mixed with an intense jealousy of the U.S.

But rest assured, if the US was bringing someone to stand trial for a view they expressed in a book, this board would be on hyper-drive right now.



Not to worry, it appears the 'Canadian experiment' is almost over. You've entered "1984" territory.

[GenX]

Free Speech is the topic tonight; and the recent Canadian assault on it using political correctness and multicultural tolerance to shut out dissent. Mark Steyn and Ezra Levant are just two hostages whose cases before the "Human Rights Commission" in Alberta may well signal the most significant attempts to wipe free speech off the Western map.

Join Siggy, ShrinkWrapped, Neo, and me for some spirited psychological and political analysis of the free speech fiasco in Canada.

Interesting audio: LINK (http://drsanity.blogspot.com/2008/01/sanity-squad-free-canadian-hostages.html)

[GenX]

<span style='font-size: 16pt'>the "Human Rights Commission" in Alberta may well signal the most significant attempts to wipe free speech off the Western map</span>

You get that???? ALBERTA!!

CANADA!!!

Clean up your own dismal backyard before worrying about others.

[Hans]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Aydeloof</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Hans</div><div class="ubbcode-body">"And from a spiritual point of view, doesn't it feel wrong to continually continually criticize without being a part of it or without any solutions? It does, from where I sit."

That's the same like the whole abortion issue. The Church is against it, Pope keeps criticizing anyone who is not against it. But in the end the Church does nothing to come up with an actual solution to this world wide spread problem. Stemm cell research, the same thing.

So you are really no different then Barry with his commenst about the US. You criticize without bringing forward a permanent solution... </div></div>

Hans, not being a part of the church scene (apparently, otherwise you wouldn't have said this), you speak from ignorance. The church does a ton of stuff in this regard. It counsels young women to go full term with their pregnancies. It has opened thousands of counselling centres across the continent that are funded by.... the church, not government. And Christians everywhere stand ready to adopt any unwanted child. I can name names and give you addresses of people who do this, and I can tell you about people who have gone to jail in Canada for their activism in this regard.

So Hans, your comment is understandable, because you are not involved, but you really ought not to talk so assertively about stuff that's outside of your experience. If you were in an armchair, all you might hear about are the criticisms that are eagerly reported on in your favourite news source. Whereas you seldom hear about the good stuff being done by Christians (Catholic and Protestant alike).
</div></div>

You are missing the point. The solution you put forward might not always line up with the wishes of an individual.
If your solution does not line up with a persons wish, then it's not a solution but a work around.
Do you honestly believe that going to jail is part of a workable solution for this global problem?