Will You Read?

[GenX]

Forum (http://www.chnetwork.org/ewtn.htm)

Actually, the more evangelicals that become RC, the better.. because they will start hearing the gospel in those churches... and people will actually get saved, because maybe for the first time, they will realize that Jesus is their intercessor and mediator.

This isn't all bad.

[GenX]

Geez, you're sounding like Barry now.

That's a shame.

Aydeloof, why the anger?

[GenX]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">because maybe for the first time, they will realize that Jesus is their intercessor and mediator. </div></div>

I couldn't have picked a better example of two things: one, why I do not believe you've ever taken more than a cursory glance at the Catechism of the RCC (even though you claim to have read it twice, in two languages); and two, that you've truly studied the issues of the Protestant/Catholic divide, as you have claimed.

[GenX]

From the Catechism of the Roman Catholic Church:

480 Jesus Christ is true God and true man, in the unity of his divine person; for this reason he is the one and only mediator between God and men.

1544 Everything that the priesthood of the Old Covenant prefigured finds its fulfillment in Christ Jesus, the "one mediator between God and men." The Christian tradition considers Melchizedek, "priest of God Most High," as a prefiguration of the priesthood of Christ, the unique "high priest after the order of Melchizedek"; "holy, blameless, unstained," "by a single offering he has perfected for all time those who are sanctified," that is, by the unique sacrifice of the cross.

2593 The prayer of Moses responds to the living God's initiative for the salvation of his people. It foreshadows the prayer of intercession of the unique mediator, Christ Jesus.

2674 Mary gave her consent in faith at the Annunciation and maintained it without hesitation at the foot of the Cross. Ever since, her motherhood has extended to the brothers and sisters of her Son "who still journey on earth surrounded by dangers and difficulties." Jesus, the only mediator, is the way of our prayer; Mary, his mother and ours, is wholly transparent to him: she "shows the way" (hodigitria), and is herself "the Sign" of the way, according to the traditional iconography of East and West.

2574 Once the promise begins to be fulfilled (Passover, the Exodus, the gift of the Law, and the ratification of the covenant), the prayer of Moses becomes the most striking example of intercessory prayer, which will be fulfilled in "the one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus."


Now, how does a man who "read the Catechism twice, in two languages", as you claim Aydeloof, make such a comment as above?

Not the 'anger' epithet again.

[GenX]

Well, you seem agitated. Maybe that is the better description than anger.

Care to address the post above?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Speedy the Arrogant Parrot</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">because maybe for the first time, they will realize that Jesus is their intercessor and mediator. </div></div>

I couldn't have picked a better example of two things: one, why I do not believe you've ever taken more than a cursory glance at the Catechism of the RCC (even though you claim to have read it twice, in two languages); and two, that you've truly studied the issues of the Protestant/Catholic divide, as you have claimed.

</div></div>

Ahh, now I see why your disbelief. You assumed that my remark is based on the Catechism. It isn't. I wish you'd be a bit more relaxed about all this though... sheesh.

My remark is based on what I have heard from priests and what I have heard from most of the Catholic people I have interacted with.

You see, THEY do not know the official teachings of the church. Or it simply isn't being taught. It's what people actually believe that is critical, wouldn't you agree? not what lies in the catechism, which I doubt most Catholics have read.

And yes, once more, just recently I acquired the 1994 catechism, and have read through much of it, and in particular on these salient points that we haltingly try to discuss.

I wish you could believe me. But if you don't, I cannot help that. And if you get huffy and start with the ad hominems, I will leave the discussion. Calmly.

[Soundbear]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Speedy the Arrogant Parrot</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Geez, you're sounding like Barry now.

That's a shame.

Aydeloof, why the anger? </div></div>

Every time you accuse somebody of being angry, I think you are an idiot. Grow up.

[Soundbear]

"You see, THEY do not know the official teachings of the church. Or it simply isn't being taught. It's what people actually believe that is critical, wouldn't you agree? not what lies in the catechism, which I doubt most Catholics have not read."

Indeed, this is a characteristic of a lot of churches, particularly cults. The last thing the Mormon church wants is a study by Mormons of the contradictions between what the church teaches and what their "scriptures" actually say. JW's are the same, in my experience.

Here is my approach with a lot of Catholics.

Me: "Do you actually obey what Mary says in the Bible?"

R.C. Well, what does she say? I am not aware of what Mary says.

Me: Let me show you the only command that Mary ever gave in Scriptures. It is found in John 2,where Jesus tells the servants at the wedding feast, "Whatever Jesus tells you to do, do it." Do you obey Mary, and do what Jesus tells you to do?

R.C. Well, what does Jesus tell me to do?

Me: "Let's find out together.. " and together we study Jesus' words and teachings.

[GenX]

A lot of Catholics, huh?

Do you go find them? What gives them away, their dress?

[Soundbear]

They come into our churches because the RCC has failed them in some way.

They aren't hard to find.

Well, in Austria, 80 percent of the population is RC. That where you can bet almost everyone you meet is RC.

In my neighborhood, folks are mostly Italian, and we have 2 RC churches in the neighborhood. Doesn't take much to figure it out.

[GenX]

Aydeloff, is that 'proof'?


Can you give us something more tangible, concerning these wayward Catholics you seem to be running into all the time?

[GenX]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Barry Morris</div><div class="ubbcode-body">They come into our churches because the RCC has failed them in some way.

They aren't hard to find. </div></div>

But what of the flood of highly-educated Protestants coming into the RCC?

[Soundbear]

Flood?? Of people we never heard of???

NOT!!!

If there's a flood at all, it's going the other way.

I will admit to one fact. There are indeed many Protestant denominations. As a result, it is very difficult to ennumerate just how many are coming IN to the Protestant churches. It is MUCH easier for the RCC to count the heads of those entering their gates, and of course, they DO have the need to let their flock know of those who are converting TO the RCC, in the vain hope that it might stem the (oops, sorry) flood leaving.

[GenX]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Flood?? Of people we never heard of??? </div></div>

/ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/rofl.gif /ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/lol.gif


"Bush?? How'd he get elected??? I don't know ONE person that voted for him!!!"


Got to love Barry!! /ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/wavey.gif

Whoa.. you're posting at least 2 posts per sec. A new record.

[GenX]

Good, eh??

amazing

You know, maybe at the end of the day, we can all punch our time sheet and go home, let the next shift come on here, and we nod with a kindly, Good night Ralph, as we go off into the night.

[GenX]

I've got a hockey game to watch, so I'm outta' here.

Have a good one.
(funny, RW liked hockey too!)

[GenX]

That is too weird!!

Two people in the northern Michigan/northern Ontario region like hockey!! /ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/shocked.gif

prolly both teachers too!

[GenX]

Now you're just getting goofy!

[Soundbear]

Sure he is.

[GenX]

Now you're just being Barry!!

[Soundbear]

OK, RW.

[frenchy1]

what a great topic this is blank just like the moderator

[Soundbear]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: frenchy</div><div class="ubbcode-body">what a great topic this is blank just like the moderator </div></div>

Speedy justs hates being found out.