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03-04-2008, 09:01 AM
RW, how does the RCC handle guys like Luke Timothy Johnson? Or do you suppose he has already been excommunicated?
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I have little patience with efforts to make Scripture say something other than what it says, through appeals to linguistic or cultural subtleties. The exegetical situation is straightforward: we know what the text says. But what are we to do with what the text says? We must state our grounds for standing in tension with the clear commands of Scripture, and include in those grounds some basis in Scripture itself. To avoid this task is to put ourselves in the very position that others insist we already occupy-that of liberal despisers of the tradition and of the church’s sacred writings, people who have no care for the shared symbols that define us as Christian. If we see ourselves as liberal, then we must be liberal in the name of the gospel, and not, as so often has been the case, liberal despite the gospel.
...

I think it important to state clearly that we do, in fact, reject the straightforward commands of Scripture, and appeal instead to another authority when we declare that same-sex unions can be holy and good. And what exactly is that authority? We appeal explicitly to the weight of our own experience and the experience thousands of others have witnessed to, which tells us that to claim our own sexual orientation is in fact to accept the way in which God has created us.


The challenge, therefore, is to discern what constitutes the positive and negative in sexual behavior. A start would be to adapt Galatians 3:28 and state that “in Christ there is neither gay nor straight”-and on that basis, to begin to ask serious questions concerning the holiness of the church, applying the same criteria on both sides. If porneia among heterosexuals includes promiscuity, violence, and exploitation, then the church must condemn similar forms of homosexual activity. If the church condemns the bath-house style of gay life, it must also condemn the playboy style of straight life. Similarly, if holiness among heterosexuals includes fidelity, chastity, modesty, and fruitfulness, we can ask whether and how the same elements are present in same-sex love.


http://www.commonwealmagazine.org/article.php3?id_article=1957

GenX
03-04-2008, 05:26 PM
The fact he is a "former" monk tells me he was probably shown the door by RCC authorities, while no doubt more than willing to find that door himself.

He denies a basic truth of the Church. Therefore, he was spiritually and emotionally excommunicated before being officially excommunicated.

And really, what's worse? Obviously the spiritual excommunication is the 'big deal' All the Church does is make it official.

Look at the Church as a coroner in this instance: the coroner pronounces the person dead; but the person was dead relatively long before the coroner entered the picture.

03-04-2008, 10:05 PM
Was he excommunicated?

GenX
03-06-2008, 04:48 PM
The term "former" makes me think that is a distinct possibility.

But I'd have to look into it deeper to know for sure.

Sadly, the RCC does not send us a list of the recently-excommunicated /ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/wink.gif

03-06-2008, 05:14 PM
So it is not known for certain that if a professors teachings diametrically oppose RC doctrine, s/he will be excommunicated?

GenX
03-06-2008, 05:16 PM
It was explained earlier, Barry Jr. /ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif

Geez, such basic questions from someone that has "read the Catechism of the RCC, twice...in two languages!" /ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/wink.gif

03-06-2008, 05:20 PM
I never claimed to have memorized it. Sheesh!

GenX
03-06-2008, 05:22 PM
Right...and it's so hard to access it online.

Soundbear
03-07-2008, 10:45 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Aydeloof</div><div class="ubbcode-body">So it is not known for certain that if a professors teachings diametrically oppose RC doctrine, s/he will be excommunicated?

</div></div>

Obviously not.

GenX
03-10-2008, 03:35 PM
Barry, you add so much to the conversation.

Soundbear
03-10-2008, 07:02 PM
And you so little.

GenX
03-11-2008, 04:55 PM
Great reply.

Soundbear
03-11-2008, 09:27 PM
Sufficient.

GenX
03-15-2008, 11:53 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Barry Morris</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Sufficient. </div></div>

Yup, about as sufficient as sola fide and sola scriptura