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View Full Version : Bell forcing throttling on all 3rd party DSL !!!



tired-n-cranky
03-25-2008, 04:51 PM
Major news for anyone using ADSL.. Bell is now forcing their throttling onto ALL DSL providers, not just Sympatico.

This means Vianet, Teksavvy, and any others.

To quote: "Ok... Here's the deal...

They're now openly acknowledging that they are rolling out a full throttling process. They plan to have things fully throttled by April 7th. All BT and P2P traffic will be affected.

They claim they are allowed to do so according to their Terms and Services under the Fair Usage Policy in the tariffed contracts... We'll be looking into this shortly.

The meeting was with Sales and Product Management. They will be preparing a formal letter before end of week.

In the meantime, we (many other ISPs) are going to prepare as well... I guess the high road is the path taken in this case.

Spread the word one and all as this topic needs to reach every level possible... There's now officially an issue and action must be taken by all if we're to rectify things."


See here for the Slashdot article: http://yro.slashdot.org/yro/08/03/25/035200.shtml

See here for the writeup at Dslreports:

http://www.dslreports.com/shownews/Bell-...Tell-Them-92915 (http://www.dslreports.com/shownews/Bell-Canada-Throttles-Wholesalers-Doesnt-Bother-To-Tell-Them-92915)

Chrylon
03-25-2008, 10:15 PM
that just blows....

Andre
03-25-2008, 10:24 PM
Yes it does.
Luckily I don't use torrents and it doesn't seem to effect where I download from.
I hear VoIP users are getting screwed over as well.

mboy67
03-25-2008, 10:33 PM
Just wait till the CRTC gets involved. Do you think our government will allow them to block torrents which are a 100% legal way to share files. Our own government using our tax dollars has created torrents for the public to get.

Chako
03-25-2008, 11:05 PM
And to think my pension plan owns the controlling share of Bell..sigh.

Andre
03-25-2008, 11:31 PM
CBC and Globe and Mail have picked up the story.
http://www.cbc.ca/technology/story/2008/03/25/bell-throttling.html

Just when the CBC starts using torrents. lol
http://www.cbc.ca/nextprimeminister/

oneof3
03-25-2008, 11:40 PM
We'll roll over, take it, roll back over and say thank you.

Hans
03-26-2008, 07:54 AM
See, I told you a couple of months ago it was only a matter of time...

Hans
03-26-2008, 07:56 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: NeTDaWg</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Major news for anyone using ADSL.. Bell is now forcing their throttling onto ALL DSL providers, not just Sympatico.

This means Vianet, Teksavvy, and any others.

To quote: "Ok... Here's the deal...

They're now openly acknowledging that they are rolling out a full throttling process. They plan to have things fully throttled by April 7th. All BT and P2P traffic will be affected.

They claim they are allowed to do so according to their Terms and Services under the Fair Usage Policy in the tariffed contracts... We'll be looking into this shortly.

The meeting was with Sales and Product Management. They will be preparing a formal letter before end of week.

In the meantime, we (many other ISPs) are going to prepare as well... I guess the high road is the path taken in this case.

Spread the word one and all as this topic needs to reach every level possible... There's now officially an issue and action must be taken by all if we're to rectify things."


See here for the Slashdot article: http://yro.slashdot.org/yro/08/03/25/035200.shtml

See here for the writeup at Dslreports:

http://www.dslreports.com/shownews/Bell-...Tell-Them-92915 (http://www.dslreports.com/shownews/Bell-Canada-Throttles-Wholesalers-Doesnt-Bother-To-Tell-Them-92915)

</div></div>

I predict it's only a matter of time before the P2P protocol changes to HTTP packets for actual data transmission using SSL.

Shawn
03-29-2008, 02:00 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: NeTDaWg</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Major news for anyone using ADSL.. Bell is now forcing their throttling onto ALL DSL providers, not just Sympatico.

This means Vianet, Teksavvy, and any others.

To quote: "Ok... Here's the deal...

They're now openly acknowledging that they are rolling out a full throttling process. They plan to have things fully throttled by April 7th. All BT and P2P traffic will be affected.

They claim they are allowed to do so according to their Terms and Services under the Fair Usage Policy in the tariffed contracts... We'll be looking into this shortly.

The meeting was with Sales and Product Management. They will be preparing a formal letter before end of week.

In the meantime, we (many other ISPs) are going to prepare as well... I guess the high road is the path taken in this case.

Spread the word one and all as this topic needs to reach every level possible... There's now officially an issue and action must be taken by all if we're to rectify things."


See here for the Slashdot article: http://yro.slashdot.org/yro/08/03/25/035200.shtml

See here for the writeup at Dslreports:

http://www.dslreports.com/shownews/Bell-...Tell-Them-92915 (http://www.dslreports.com/shownews/Bell-Canada-Throttles-Wholesalers-Doesnt-Bother-To-Tell-Them-92915)

</div></div>

Ya this would only be affecting our dsl customers that are fed off bells network. We do have our own dsl network as well that is not controlled by Bell, only problem is it is currently only in Sudbury and North Bay currently. Like the articles say, we were not correctly informed either by bell and had to find out after issuing several tickets for dsl issues with some customers with speed issues.

Barry Morris
03-29-2008, 09:46 AM
"Bell has not officially announced the throttling initiative.."

There's a shock.

Some call them Ma Bell,

I think that's a short form of Mob from Hell!!!

Hans
03-29-2008, 11:35 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Shawn</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: NeTDaWg</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Major news for anyone using ADSL.. Bell is now forcing their throttling onto ALL DSL providers, not just Sympatico.

This means Vianet, Teksavvy, and any others.

To quote: "Ok... Here's the deal...

They're now openly acknowledging that they are rolling out a full throttling process. They plan to have things fully throttled by April 7th. All BT and P2P traffic will be affected.

They claim they are allowed to do so according to their Terms and Services under the Fair Usage Policy in the tariffed contracts... We'll be looking into this shortly.

The meeting was with Sales and Product Management. They will be preparing a formal letter before end of week.

In the meantime, we (many other ISPs) are going to prepare as well... I guess the high road is the path taken in this case.

Spread the word one and all as this topic needs to reach every level possible... There's now officially an issue and action must be taken by all if we're to rectify things."


See here for the Slashdot article: http://yro.slashdot.org/yro/08/03/25/035200.shtml

See here for the writeup at Dslreports:

http://www.dslreports.com/shownews/Bell-...Tell-Them-92915 (http://www.dslreports.com/shownews/Bell-Canada-Throttles-Wholesalers-Doesnt-Bother-To-Tell-Them-92915)

</div></div>

Ya this would only be affecting our dsl customers that are fed off bells network. We do have our own dsl network as well that is not controlled by Bell, only problem is it is currently only in Sudbury and North Bay currently. Like the articles say, we were not correctly informed either by bell and had to find out after issuing several tickets for dsl issues with some customers with speed issues. </div></div>

Just a question : are they allowed to scan packets originating from another provider?

axalon2003
03-30-2008, 04:48 PM
So will I be seeing a reduction in my internet bill since I'm going to see a reduction in my service?

V Code
03-31-2008, 12:33 PM
Does not encrypting defeat this? i stayed at a hotel for 3 months and for the first week i was unable to download anything from torrents. during that time i found out that i had to "force" the encryption in my torrent app and then presto, everything worked fine. until that is they would ban my MAC for downloading too much . that as well is easily defeated.

Koss
03-31-2008, 01:47 PM
One of the dirty tidbits to come out of this whole throttling business, was the fact that Bell, who owns CTV Globemedia, was specifically targeting CBC television torrents. tsk tsk tsk....

Hopefully the whole issue of Net Neutrality will come to the forefront. I believe that a byte is a byte no matter what I use the internet for. See my signature.

Hans
03-31-2008, 08:50 PM
In the end the problem is really with ISP's, Bell being one of them. Nobody wants to give a clear cut definition of fair use, leaving the door wide open to throttle anyone for "unfair use".

What's considered using to much bandwidth, or to many network resources? Nobody is willing to give a clear cut definition...

Andre
03-31-2008, 11:42 PM
Bell is not an ISP.
Please don't confuse that in the argument.
Sympatico is an ISP. If Bell wants to throttle that, fine.
Bell is mandated by the CRTC to provide copper to 3rd party resellers.
They have no right to throttle the bandwidth of their competition.
This is strictly an anticompetitive case.

Hans
03-31-2008, 11:54 PM
Bell is an ISP. They call it Sympatico.
Just go to Bell.ca and see how Sympatico fits in. Then tell me again Bell is not an ISP.

And again, in the end there's not 1 single ISP who is willing to clearly define the terms "using to much bandwidth" and "using to many network resources". And this is the whole issue that is leading to throttling all over the world. I think it's time for ISP's to come up with some clear cut definitions...

Strife
03-31-2008, 11:59 PM
Unless Bell was forced by the CRTC to split Bell and Sympatico to two separate entities, than Bell is the ISP. Its the same as MSN and Microsoft. They are two separate entities but still controlled by the same guy.

Strife
04-01-2008, 12:01 AM
I also agree with Hans. ISP's have to start clearly stating what is considered using too much network resources or I can eventually see this turning into a class action lawsuit. People pay companies money for the speeds that they ask for. If the ISP willingly declines the user of those speeds, then the bill should reflect so.

Andre
04-01-2008, 12:22 AM
I am paying for a "Premium" peer1 connection. A 200GB cap.
I don't use the 200GB, but, it's there if I want it.
http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f308/Andrjohson/Pics4/Throttling1.jpg

Bell Bell Nexxia has no right to limit MY ISP

tired-n-cranky
04-01-2008, 03:18 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Hans</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Bell is an ISP. They call it Sympatico.
Just go to Bell.ca and see how Sympatico fits in. Then tell me again Bell is not an ISP.

And again, in the end there's not 1 single ISP who is willing to clearly define the terms "using to much bandwidth" and "using to many network resources". And this is the whole issue that is leading to throttling all over the world. I think it's time for ISP's to come up with some clear cut definitions...
</div></div>

Actually Bell ISN'T the ISP, Sympatico is. They are, by law, distinct entities. Yes it is on their website, but Sympatico buys the DSL line from Bell Wholesale just like any other ISP.

You need to really understand the legislation and rules put forth by the CRTC to differentiate.

Hans
04-01-2008, 07:33 PM
I disagree with you 100% NetDawg, and this is why :

A simply Whois on Sympatico displays this :

Status: EXIST
Registrar: Webnames.ca (UBC Research Enterprises Inc.)
Registrar-no: 70
Registrant-no: 15771
Domaine-no: 414718
Subdomain: sympatico.ca
Renewal-Date: 2008/10/13
Date-Approved: 2000/10/02
Date-Modified: 2007/03/22
Organization: Bell Canada
Description: Bell Canada, the largest Canadian telecommunications operating company, markets a full range of state-of-the-art products and services to more than six million businessand residential customers accross Canada.ATTENTION!! The only way to report any alleged illegal use is to send detailed email (with the IP address, email header) to the abuse department of the domain name (i.e. abuse contact for sympatico.ca is ; for vdn.ca is , etc...)
Admin-Name: Van Tu Duong
Admin-Title: Domain Names Manager
Admin-Postal: 1000 de La Gauchetiere West #4100
Montreal QC H3B 5H8 Canada
Admin-Phone: 1 514 7869356
Admin-Fax: 1 514 8704833
Admin-Mailbox:
Tech-Name: Van Tu Duong
Tech-Title: Domain Names Manager
Tech-Postal: 1000 de La Gauchetiere West #4100
Montreal QC H3B 5H8 Canada
Tech-Phone: 1 514 7869356
Tech-Fax: 1 514 8704833
Tech-Mailbox:
NS1-Hostname: toroon63nszp01.srvr.bell.ca
NS1-Netaddress: 207.164.234.42
NS2-Hostname: toroondcnszs01.srvr.bell.ca
NS2-Netaddress: 207.236.176.30
NS3-Hostname:
NS3-Netaddress:
NS4-Hostname:
NS4-Netaddress:
NS5-Hostname:
NS5-Netaddress:
NS6-Hostname:
NS6-Netaddress:

It's clear to me Bell and Sympatico are one and the same.

tired-n-cranky
04-01-2008, 08:34 PM
Hans, I work in the dsl industry, trust me I know what I am talking about. Sympatico has to follow the DSL tarriffs just as any other ISP.

DNS whois doesn't mean a thing.

Hans
04-01-2008, 10:37 PM
How much does Sympatico pay Bell to use their logo's on their products?

V Code
04-02-2008, 09:22 AM
he is just not going to get it NeTDaWg!

best leave it alone before you make his head hurt anymore!!!

Hans
04-02-2008, 02:41 PM
Oh well, let me know when Bell Vianet is open for business.

Hans
04-02-2008, 02:49 PM
http://service.sympatico.ca/index.cfm?method=content.view&category_id=550&content_id=11013

The Total Internet Essential, Total Internet Essential Plus, Total Internet Performance, Total Internet Performance Plus, Total Internet Max, Sympatico High Speed, Sympatico High Speed Ultra, Sympatico Basic and Sympatico Basic Lite Internet Services (the particular service you subscribe to being referred to herein as the "Internet Service") are residential Internet services further described in Section 6 below, provided by Bell Canada ("Your Service Provider") to you throughout the duration of this Service Agreement, which includes your Initial Service Period (defined in Section 4), if any, and continues after the end of the Initial Service Period as further described in Section 4 until you give Your Service Provider notice of termination in accordance with Section 4 or until Your Service Provider terminates this Service Agreement as permitted herein (the “Term”). Your Service Provider may offer to you certain optional services, including without limitation safety and security features and communications tools, for use in connection with the Internet Service (“Value-Added Services”). For the purposes of this Service Agreement: (i) “Service”

I highlighted the relevant information, which clearly states Bell Canada is "your service provider"

So feel free to explain to me that Bell is not an ISP.

tired-n-cranky
04-02-2008, 09:16 PM
Yes I am ignoring this thread, because obviously you are Mr. DSL God.

Hans
04-02-2008, 09:19 PM
I never claimed to be that. I simply stated Bell is an ISP.

Killswitch
04-03-2008, 08:47 AM
"The BCE subsidiary Bell Canada has moved into new industries via new divisions such as <span style="color: #FF0000">Bell Sympatico, an Internet service provider</span>; Bell Mobility, a cellular wireless service now operating in most Canadian provinces; Bell ExpressVu, one of Canada's two national satellite television providers; Bell Home Monitoring, a new division announced in February 2007; and Bell Distribution."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bell_Canada

So I suppose Bell Mobility isn't a cellular wireless service either? lol

Strife
04-03-2008, 11:32 AM
Game set and match!

Koss
04-05-2008, 12:36 AM
Now it gets better: http://www.cbc.ca/technology/story/2008/04/02/tech-bell.html?ref=rss

So basically Bell doesn't want anymore competition. In essence anyone that can provide VOIP. They also seem to have forgotten that the taxpayer paid for their infrastucture and that's why they don't own the 'last mile'. What next from big bad Bell. Really I'll take Shaw any day.

tired-n-cranky
04-05-2008, 08:18 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Canadian13</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Game set and match! </div></div>

Don't you have a landlord to screw over somewhere?

tired-n-cranky
04-05-2008, 08:20 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Killswitch</div><div class="ubbcode-body">"The BCE subsidiary Bell Canada has moved into new industries via new divisions such as <span style="color: #FF0000">Bell Sympatico, an Internet service provider</span>; Bell Mobility, a cellular wireless service now operating in most Canadian provinces; Bell ExpressVu, one of Canada's two national satellite television providers; Bell Home Monitoring, a new division announced in February 2007; and Bell Distribution."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bell_Canada

So I suppose Bell Mobility isn't a cellular wireless service either? lol </div></div>

Bell itself itn't the ISP, Sympatico division is. Sympatico has to lease the DSL line from Bell Nexxia wholesale just like any other ISP who uses DSL. You don't seem to realize that they all operate as seperate entities.

Strife
04-05-2008, 11:35 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: NeTDaWg</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Canadian13</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Game set and match! </div></div>

Don't you have a landlord to screw over somewhere?</div></div>

haha....your just mad because you think your Mr. Know it all and losing an arguement. Go cry to mommy

Andre
04-05-2008, 11:45 AM
Losing in the sense that arguing with the ignorant is an exercise in futility...yes.
Other than that, he's right.

Guest
04-05-2008, 05:39 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: NeTDaWg</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Canadian13</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Game set and match! </div></div>

Don't you have a landlord to screw over somewhere? </div></div>That was a little low...

Hans
04-05-2008, 07:21 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: NeTDaWg</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Killswitch</div><div class="ubbcode-body">"The BCE subsidiary Bell Canada has moved into new industries via new divisions such as <span style="color: #FF0000">Bell Sympatico, an Internet service provider</span>; Bell Mobility, a cellular wireless service now operating in most Canadian provinces; Bell ExpressVu, one of Canada's two national satellite television providers; Bell Home Monitoring, a new division announced in February 2007; and Bell Distribution."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bell_Canada

So I suppose Bell Mobility isn't a cellular wireless service either? lol </div></div>

Bell itself itn't the ISP, Sympatico division is. Sympatico has to lease the DSL line from Bell Nexxia wholesale just like any other ISP who uses DSL. You don't seem to realize that they all operate as seperate entities. </div></div>

In reality, how separate do they operate if they carry the Bell logo on all their own logo's, if their web pages are hosted at the Bell page, if they are basically referring to themselves as Bell Sympatico?

Hans
04-05-2008, 07:37 PM
It's odd that Sympatico is not complaining about Bell throttling their network connectivity. How come they are not complaining?

Strife
04-05-2008, 08:04 PM
lol....good points and question Hans. I would love to see the explanation on that.

hemi_69
04-06-2008, 10:17 AM
so I have to ask this ...if they are "different Companies" why (when I had it a few months back) did my SYMPATICO bill say BELL on it and not sympatico??
and why is it that when the CRTC gets involved in anythign Mirko Bibic (Chief of Regulatory Affairs for Bell Canada)gets involved an not someone from SYMPATICO?

it's more like they are different partially secluded Departments within the same company then anythig else. They may not be directly linked in many ways but they are still the same company.