More from the Idiot Hagee

[KDawg]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">John Hagee, the controversial evangelical leader and endorser of Sen. John McCain, argued in a late 1990s sermon that the Nazis had operated on God's behalf to chase the Jews from Europe and shepherd them to Palestine. According to the Reverend, Adolph Hitler was a "hunter," sent by God, who was tasked with expediting God's will of having the Jews re-establish a state of Israel. </div></div>

John Hagee: Adolph Hitler was fullfilling God's Will (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/05/21/mccain-backer-hagee-said_n_102892.html)

[Soundbear]

So it wasn't God's will to re-establish Israel??

[KDawg]

I'm pretty sure that it was NOT God's will for Hitler to be a "hunter" of Jews.

God doesn't prop up murderers (the way Hagee describes it).

[Soundbear]

That which Satan meant for evil, the Lord meant for good.

It's a common biblical theme.

[KDawg]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">He goes on: "Theodore Hertzel is the father of Zionism. He was a Jew who at the turn of the 19th century said, this land is our land, God wants us to live there. So he went to the Jews of Europe and said 'I want you to come and join me in the land of Israel.' So few went that Hertzel went into depression. Those who came founded Israel; those who did not went through the hell of the holocaust.

"Then god sent a hunter. A hunter is someone with a gun and he forces you. Hitler was a hunter. </div></div>

If you believe the Jews are the chosen people, then how can you believe God sent a "hunter" to kill so many of them, just to get them to move?

In the Bible, God did that to ENEMIES of His people, not to His people -- It's ridiculous in the extreme.

[KDawg]

At any rate, I can say that Hitler was not an agent of God.

[dancingqueen]

KDawg, you are using reason o establish God's motives... I don't think that would be an efficient way to do so...

Wasn't there a part of the Bible where a good ol' fashioned God fearing man and his wife where fleeing a burning city and told not to look back?
If memory serves me correctly, his wife did look back and God turned her to a pilar of salt... I would call that pretty dead and not exactly to that of an enemy.

[KDawg]

That's right. There are plenty of examples in the Bible where God punishes those who disobey Him. He punished the Jews a few times (don't know how many) too for disobedience. In Genesis, God sent the Jews into the desert. God is the Creator, and He has every right to punish people as He sees fit. God's plan is to have people learn to follow Him, and sometimes that means punishment. Now you might think the punishments are too harsh or undeserved, but that's another debate.

That's not what Hagee says, though. Hagee says it was God's will to have Hitler kill Jews to expedite the establishment of the state of Isreal. We all know what Hitler did. He shoved innocent people into gas chambers and murdered them. The lucky ones only starved to death in slave camps. His only motive was to kill as many people as he could, so no one can convince me Hitler was acting for God.

My God, the God in the bible, is not a murderous thug. Hagee either doesn't know his history or his Bible, or he's a liar.

[KDawg]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Barry Morris</div><div class="ubbcode-body">That which Satan meant for evil, the Lord meant for good.

It's a common biblical theme. </div></div>

Barry, if by that you mean God will take a bad situation and have some good come out of it, then I agree.

That, however, is different than saying it was God's will in the first place to have bad things take place. VERY different.

[Soundbear]

It also depends on your interpretation of what Hagee actually said. I don't see it the same way as you.
I guess God felt the Jews needed a little more prompting to do His will than you think they did.

There is quite a distance between your words,"Hagee says it was God's will to have Hitler kill Jews to expedite the establishment of the state of Isreal." and the words of the article, "...the Nazis had operated on God's behalf to chase the Jews from Europe and shepherd them to Palestine. According to the Reverend, Adolph Hitler was a "hunter," sent by God,..."

Read about Hentzel, and how those few Jews who followed him to the promised land were spared the Holocaust.

[KDawg]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Barry Morris</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
There is quite a distance between your words,"Hagee says it was God's will to have Hitler kill Jews to expedite the establishment of the state of Isreal." and the words of the article, "...the Nazis had operated on God's behalf to chase the Jews from Europe and shepherd them to Palestine. According to the Reverend, Adolph Hitler was a "hunter," sent by God,..."</div></div>

What distance? This is from the article....

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> According to the Reverend, Adolph Hitler was a "hunter," sent by God, who was tasked with expediting God's will of having the Jews re-establish a state of Israel. </div></div>

[Soundbear]

Sorry, just the way I see it.

There are similar examples in scripture.

The whole Egypt and Moses thing comes to mind, the whole nation dying in the wilderness over 40 years.
Many times Israel's enemies were used to make the Jews turn back to God.

God's ways are not our ways.

Just a thought. I wonder how far the media will go to scrape up ANYTHING that discredits the opposition (i.e. sells papers) Going back 10 or more years to find some obscure quote from a preacher we hardly ever heard of before is downright silly.

[dancingqueen]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: KDawg</div><div class="ubbcode-body">That's right. There are plenty of examples in the Bible where God punishes those who disobey Him. He punished the Jews a few times (don't know how many) too for disobedience. In Genesis, God sent the Jews into the desert. God is the Creator, and He has every right to punish people as He sees fit. God's plan is to have people learn to follow Him, and sometimes that means punishment. Now you might think the punishments are too harsh or undeserved, but that's another debate.

That's not what Hagee says, though. Hagee says it was God's will to have Hitler kill Jews to expedite the establishment of the state of Isreal. We all know what Hitler did. He shoved innocent people into gas chambers and murdered them. The lucky ones only starved to death in slave camps. His only motive was to kill as many people as he could, so no one can convince me Hitler was acting for God.

My God, the God in the bible, is not a murderous thug. Hagee either doesn't know his history or his Bible, or he's a liar. </div></div>

God also flooded the world for 40 days and nights save a man and his wife and two of each animal. What about the rest of the people and animals, slowly dying off, feeding off each other... Imagine Katrina only the whole world over. Tha sounds pretty murderous and fairly on par with shoving jewish people in an oven, or starving them to death... It therefore does not make it difficult for me to belive that Hitler would have been doing the work of God.

[KDawg]

If Hilter was doing God's work, then who's side is Satan on?

[dancingqueen]

It's interesting that you would think in the realm of religion that there are only two sides...

[Soundbear]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: KDawg</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If Hilter was doing God's work, then who's side is Satan on? </div></div>

Satan, one of God's creations, is doing things he thinks are for his own benefit, in defiance of God. God on the other hand, knows evrything, past, present and future, and knows that Satan's worst efforts will only serve to glorify God.

[Soundbear]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: dancingqueen</div><div class="ubbcode-body">It's interesting that you would think in the realm of religion that there are only two sides... </div></div>

There's lots of sides.

My thought, as I have expressed elsewhere is that one is submitted to God or one is not. One is a child of God or one is not.

THAT'S where there the black and white is.

[GirlNextDoor]

im pretty sure if the jews were gods chosen race, they sure screwed up good by killing jesus. in fact didnt they spit in god's face quite a few times?

[Soundbear]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: KDawg</div><div class="ubbcode-body">At any rate, I can say that Hitler was not an agent of God. </div></div>

Neither can you say Hitler was operating outside of God's soveriegnty.

[Soundbear]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Operating System Not Found</div><div class="ubbcode-body">im pretty sure if the jews were gods chosen race, they sure screwed up good by killing jesus. in fact didnt they spit in god's face quite a few times? </div></div>

Indeed they did.

But it wasn't just the Jews who killed Jesus.

It was all of us.