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View Full Version : good luck enforcing!



great body
06-12-2008, 01:39 PM
http://www.thestar.com/News/Canada/article/442126

You cant prevent it!

hp2
06-12-2008, 01:42 PM
interesting to say the least

DoubleXL
06-12-2008, 02:42 PM
The government can suck my left AND right nuts! I will share whatever I want without consequence.

Just like smoking pot is illegal, and you see how effective enforcement of THAT is! LOL

tired-n-cranky
06-12-2008, 03:05 PM
Jim Prentice is an f'ing moron. Hope he passes on to hell very soon.

Barry Morris
06-12-2008, 07:35 PM
"...but allows creators to seek damages for piracy."

Good.

You steal my creations, I sue you for everything you've got.

Sound fair to me.

Please note guys, this isn't about enforcing, it's about a creator suing a thief.

DoubleXL
06-13-2008, 03:59 AM
Thief is a matter of perception. I believe that once someone puts his or her works out there to be consumed than people have the right to consume them anyway they desire.

The old system is dead, revenue must be derived by methods other than the sale of the work itself. New methods must be created to harness the financial value of the opportunities that the popularity of the work creates. The work can gain increased value by expanding its overall distribution. In this way the work may be consumed by those who may not have. Further monetization could occur through sales of merchandise based on the work, exhibition of the work, licensing for commercial use, etc.

No longer should we have to pay for CRAP. No longer should we have to subsidize a dying business model.

Innovate, or die!

Chako
06-13-2008, 06:09 AM
Ha, I can tell you are not a producer of work that you can sell. I think a producer should have fair compensation for his/her hard work. It is not a dying sales model at all. Just too many darn pirates and leechers who think they should get something for nothing. Itís sad really.

DoubleXL
06-13-2008, 10:53 AM
People are labeled "Pirates and leechers" because they are using the work in a way the creator never intended. People do not want something for nothing, they ultimately want to pay what it is worth. If that happens to be nothing, than so be it. It is up to the creator to be just that CREATIVE.

Hans
06-13-2008, 04:10 PM
"- Internet service providers would be compelled to notify subscribers accused of infringing copyright laws by uploading copyright works to the Internet."

So if I am reading this correctly, Internet service providers are compelled to upload copyrighted works to the Internet each time a subscriber is accused of infringing copyright laws??

403_forbidden
06-13-2008, 04:13 PM
I can see them wanting to get a handle on illegal downloading and distribution. What I don't like about it is the fact that just because some movie company or music company puts encryption on a disc and I find away around it to make a backup copy of my legally acquired software it is illegal. To me it's a money grab, because now all the producers will be encrypting everything banking on the fact that people will have to purchase another copy of the movie or CD if they damage it.

Hans
06-13-2008, 04:15 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Chako</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Ha, I can tell you are not a producer of work that you can sell. I think a producer should have fair compensation for his/her hard work. It is not a dying sales model at all. Just too many darn pirates and leechers who think they should get something for nothing. Itís sad really. </div></div>

Show me a producer that has become poor due to piracy.

Chako
06-13-2008, 06:41 PM
Show me a healthy PC game industry that has not been affected by piracy?

Hans
06-13-2008, 06:44 PM
The PC game industry has expanded from the PC to game consoles, hand held devices, online gaming. They have benefited greatly from the increased demand for games and gaming entertainment. They are very healthy last time I checked.

Chako
06-13-2008, 07:14 PM
All I know is that it seems fewer titles are being released for the PC. More and more publishers are jumping over to the lucrative console market, EB games employees telling me that if sales don't pick up, EB games may drop their PC title section. It is not like it used to be. These are sad times for the PC gaming industry. Hopefully things start to build up again.

Hans
06-13-2008, 07:51 PM
The issue with the PC gaming industry lies with the hardware. In order to be able to play all the latest and greatest games, you need to spend a fair amount of money on hardware.
With a console, you buy the console, pop in the game and away you go.
Currently it almost makes no sense to buy a pc for gaming purposes. You are better of purchasing a cheap pc and purchase a game console for gaming.

mboy67
06-13-2008, 07:55 PM
well I still prefer PC Gaming to Console. to me the game experience is far better. I buy way more PC games then I do for my Consoles.

Hans
06-13-2008, 09:00 PM
I believe a gaming console is in the end better designed for gaming then a pc is. Myself I don't have a gaming console and use my pc for gaming.

Chako
06-13-2008, 10:59 PM
Hans read this.

http://www.canada.com/topics/technology/...252278d&k=25113 (http://www.canada.com/topics/technology/games/story.html?id=ae936f84-8def-457d-b07a-40099252278d&k=25113)

Hans
06-14-2008, 01:19 AM
All I can say is that piracy is nothing new and has always been highly rampant. C-64, Amiga, Atari, PC. Software was always readily available for free.
The only thing that changed is the industry, which has shifted from small individual companies to large corporations. The cost of developing a game has gone from small to extremely large. Only now are they realizing that they simply can not generate enough revenue from a game that was developed over a period of years at a cost that has become astronomical.
They also seem to forget that piracy on console games is just as rampant as pc games. Only difference is that there are way less consoles then pc's , so it does not show up as a problem. (yet)

axalon2003
06-14-2008, 01:49 AM
"Here. I made you a mixed tape"
"Grab that new mixed tape I made and put it in. It's perfect for going to the beach."
"What do you feel like listening to on the drive to T.O.? .... Yeah, I have my mixed tapes with me. Go ahead, find something to play"

How many times did one or all of those things come out of your mouth? It has been always been happening, but has only been labeled piracy in the last few years. I guess only making $42 billion in profits, instead of $43 billion will push the entertainment industry into action.

Chako
06-14-2008, 06:40 AM
Last few years? I hate to say it, but I have heard the term bandied about since the early 80s.

No Hans, you are both correct and incorrect. Yes, it is true that since a game was published, there was someone out there willing to steal from those who made it. However, with todayís increased use of the internet, and more so, the prevalent use of such sites as Bittorent and other like sharing websites, stealing has become rampant and is hurting the PC games industry.

Read this other article. Another interesting read.
http://goliath.ecnext.com/coms2/gi_0199-5445607/Content-protection-for-games.html

Irrespective of what you say Hans, I can see with my own naked eyes that the PC gaming industry isn't publishing as many titles for the PC. Local stores are hurting sales wise, etc. Some people site that you need an uber video card to play games on the computer. I won't disagree to a point. However, one can play with a middle of the road video card and still get acceptable frame rates from A+ titles. So you don't need to spend 400 dollars just on a video card.

Likewise, there is no argument that consoles are cheaper, and they are far easier for the game publishers to code for as there is little to no variation in the hardware involved. This ease of programming negates any extra cost that a game publisher would ucure in buying rights to produce a software title for any given console.

There is probably increased theft on the console side of things more and more as they can log onto the internet. There is still no doubt that by their nature, they are harder to steal from. PCs make this glaringly easy compared to any given console. Thus piracy will be higher on a PC then on any console. Not to mention that the PC base is still higher then any console system out there.

Hans do you recall those physical protection keys from days past? You know, those paper circle key codes that forced you to turn them a specific way to input a code in order to play? I remember they were a pain in the butt. In fact, I feel all copy protection schemes are a pain in the butt...to legit users. I detest Starforce and all other programs of their ilk. Such copy protection schemes have forces some PC gamers into consoles. I know two friends who moved into the console scenery when Starforce was at its height of causing issues to legitimate customers.

So, I disagree with you. I do feel that piracy is hurting the PC industry, partially forcing game publishers to move into the easier console market. As a long time PC gamer, I am unhappy about this.

I have no issues with people who buy the game/music/whatever and make copies for their own use. I have major issues with people who steal other peoples intellectual property without compensating the people who put their hard work into is.

Why do people always bring up the argument that they are making enough money? Does this make you feel better for stealing someoneís work? Oh its not really hurting them financially? lol, but it does.

I buy everything I use. If I own the right to play a game, its because I bought a copy and the EULA that came with it. If I listen to music on a CD, it is because I own a store bought copy. I feel sort of sad that I may be in a distinct minority. No wonder artist from various media are getting more and more up in arms about piracy. So much so that some people think that the issue is only a recent one.

Well that is it for me on this topic. I think we may just have to agree to disagree on this one.

Hans
06-14-2008, 01:08 PM
It will always be a debate when it comes to piracy. But I honestly don't buy the industry talk on how piracy is closing down retail stores.
Stores might sell less PC games, but they make up for that very easily with all the other platforms they sell games for.

As for music piracy closing down stores, I think what you are seeing there is a shift towards digital media instead of physical media, because most playback devices these days do not use physical media anymore.

As for software industry, all the major players are still in business, and they are also shifting towards digital media instead of physical. Mostly for the same reason as music.

In the end it's a trade off between new users/hardware sales/ software sales/audio/video sales and the ability to obtain copies.

mboy67
06-14-2008, 03:00 PM
One of the Biggest reason retail sales of PC Games is down is because of digital downloads. Of the PC Games I bought in the last year Half I bought on line from Steam or EA. The other half that are in DVD form only 20% of them were bought here in town. The other 80% were bought on line. Also I will admit to downloading a cracked copy of a game I'm interested in that does not Have a demo. If I like the Game I buy it if not I delete it and Move on. I refuse to Pay good money for something that is not worth it. I have wasted too much money over the years on Games that were not enjoyable.

Hans
06-14-2008, 06:18 PM
Another issue with games, especially the online mmorpg games, is that a lot of them are pushed out of the door before they are even completed. This because they simply ran out of money to complete the project.
It's giving a bad name to the industry, and it's something that does not exist on gaming consoles due to the fact that it's almost impossible to patch the game after it's released.

mercifulpenguin
06-15-2008, 02:38 PM
the audio is out of sync (friggin youtube) but this brings up some interesting points
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uOBLExSiaDY

Madmax
06-15-2008, 03:23 PM
Good luck enforcing the music copying from friend to friend and or games.

There is also millions of sites to get music and games and movies from.

Hans
06-15-2008, 04:24 PM
They should make it a flat free rate like with TV and radio stations. This business model has been in existence long before the internet was here, and it's proven to work just fine.
They can try all they want, the consumers have spoken and they will not be able to keep ignoring this issue.