Bible

[sereenie]

Ok might be to personal of a question, but how many of u actually belive in the Bible? and everything thats in it

[KDawg]

I do.

[givememore]

me 2

[sereenie]

not me. lol

[BlueSky]

That's all you got to say?

[sereenie]

Yes what else am i suppoused to say? pretty much a yes or no question

[dancingqueen]

I belive in the ideas behind it, but as far as the actual Bible is concerned... I am sceptical

[Jackie B]

I do.

[Macs II]

There is no simple yes or no ..to this question

[sereenie]

why not, u either do or u dont .

[Anapeg]

no

[Soundbear]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: o.OserenaO.o(harleypup)</div><div class="ubbcode-body">why not, u either do or u dont . </div></div>

OK, so you don't believe in, off the top of my head, the reality of the jews, Nebuchadnezzar, Pharoah, the Jews in captivity in Egypt, Pontius Pilate, Caesar, the Philistines, the Hittites, Jerusalem, the temple, Jesus Christ, the Euphrates River, the ten commandments, the golden rule, etc.

There are those who would say that if events and people mentioned in Scriture are not shown in other evidence, that they never existed or happened. This is not true, it merely means there is no evidence other than the bible story.

As far as archeology goes, for example, does it confirm the bible story? Yes.

Do I believe the bible. Yes. Where there is coroborating proof, I accept it. Where there is not, I don't deny.

[sereenie]

so how did these people write the book? on stone?

[BlueSky]

On papyrus, vellum, whatever writing materials were used from around 1500 BC through 100 A.D.

Although it is possible that a lot of source material was originally found on clay tablets such as the library found at Ebla.

[Soundbear]

Tell ya one thing the jewish scibes used to do to make sure that their copies of the Old Testament were accurate. They would count each letter and each word of a portion just transcribed to make sure that they didn't miss any.

Pretty meticulous, I'd say.

[animal lover]

I don't think you can stake everything literally inthe bible...If Adam and Eve only had two sons but then Cain married and had children, who did he marry if his mother was the only other female on earth.

And Noah's Ark...How did he go to the antarctic to get penquins?, how did he get two of EVERY single species??? considering most people who belive in the bible believe that there is no evolution, then Noah would have to have a MUCH larger boat to carry them all...think of all the species all over the world such as Australia etc...did Noah go there and get kangaroos? Polar Bears from the Arctic???

I'm not saying I don;t believe in the teachings of Jesus, but I really don't think you can take everything literally.
Just MHO

[BlueSky]

"If Adam and Eve only had two sons but then Cain married and had children"

It is generally a good idea, /ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/idea.gif if one aspires to be a critic, to actually KNOW something of the subject one is critiquing!

[Soundbear]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: karen johns</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I don't think you can stake everything literally inthe bible...If Adam and Eve only had two sons but then Cain married and had children, who did he marry if his mother was the only other female on earth.

And Noah's Ark...How did he go to the antarctic to get penquins?, how did he get two of EVERY single species??? considering most people who belive in the bible believe that there is no evolution, then Noah would have to have a MUCH larger boat to carry them all...think of all the species all over the world such as Australia etc...did Noah go there and get kangaroos? Polar Bears from the Arctic???

I'm not saying I don;t believe in the teachings of Jesus, but I really don't think you can take everything literally.
Just MHO </div></div>

Adam lived like 600 plus years, so he had LOTS of children, about half girls, I'd expect.
The biblical and current laws against incest are because of genetic problems. Children born to brothers and sisters today risk mutations because of bad gene combinations.
This did NOT apply to Adam and Eve, whose genes would have been perfect. So brothers and sisters could marry, for a time. The incest laws came in later.

As to species, hey, penguins can swim don'cha know??? /ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif /ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif
And maybe he only needed to bring ONE type of bear, and tthey "evolved" from there. Of course, we really don't consider that evolution. Like dogs.

Funny you should mention the teachings of Jesus, because, in the end, His words are all that matter. Love God, love your neighbor. Everything in the bible and in our lives hangs on those two teachings.

[GenX]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> Adam lived like 600 plus years, so he had LOTS of children, about half girls,</div></div>

/ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/lol.gif /ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/cry.gif

Barry, where do you get this information??????

[KDawg]

From Genesis 5:1-5

This is the book of the genealogy of Adam. In the day that God created man, He made him in the likeness of God. He created them male and female, and blessed them and called them Mankind in the day they were created. And Adam lived one hundred and thirty years, and begot a son in his own likeness, after his image, and named him Seth. After he begot Seth, the days of Adam were eight hundred years; and he had sons and daughters. So all the days that Adam lived were nine hundred and thirty years; and he died.

[GenX]

So if you believe that is literal, then you believe John 6:

""Truly, truly, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of man and drink his blood, you have no life in you; he who eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day. For my flesh is food indeed, and my blood is drink indeed. He who eats my flesh and drinks my blood abides in me, and I in him" (John 6:53–56)."

I mean you believe in that passage literally, doncha' K Dawg?

And if not, why not...

[Soundbear]

off topic

[Simba]

I believe the bible is nothing more than a guide to clean living. I believe that it meant to give people a sense of hope that there is something after death to aleave people's fear of it. Is it holy? No, there is no such thing as holy.

If you want to believe in and follow the bible that is your choice, but after a complete waste of time being taught the catholic ways, I came to realize that it is nothing more than brainwashing. I choose to follow my own set of rules which are pretty much the same as the bible's. The only true thing I believe in is me. When I die that's it, I die. I become nothing more than plant food in a box. I will not waste my time believing in a so called heaven or afterlife.
If there was a god the world would not be the way it is now that's for sure.

[Onlygodknowswhy]

I agree, moral stories that guide you, help you believe.........Not a 100% accurate book....

Corinthians:
Does not even nature itself teach you that if a man has long hair, it is a dishonor to him. - I mean there is a pretty famous guy in the new testment with long hair...

I am roman catholic, and believe, but dont think the bible is accurate as ppl say....

(on a fun note,)Reverend Lovejoy: This so-called new religion is nothing but a pack of weird rituals and chants, designed to take away the money of fools. Now let's say the Lord's Prayer 40 times, but first, let's pass the collection plate.

[Simba]

If the bible was accurate, there wouldn't be 301 different interpretations of it. It also contradicts itself over and over.

With my children, I have not given them any specific religion to follow. I believe that a child should not be forced into a religion without knowing what it is all about. If you believe in god or the bible great, but when they are adults they can make up their own minds. It took me a looong time to finally realize that there is no god.

[GenX]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Barry Morris</div><div class="ubbcode-body">off topic </div></div>

BS.

You're just scared to answer the question, because it corners you.

[GenX]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: R W G R</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> Adam lived like 600 plus years, so he had LOTS of children, about half girls,</div></div>

/ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/lol.gif /ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/cry.gif

Barry, where do you get this information?????? </div></div>

[Soundbear]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: R W G R</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: R W G R</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> Adam lived like 600 plus years, so he had LOTS of children, about half girls,</div></div>

/ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/lol.gif /ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/cry.gif

Barry, where do you get this information?????? </div></div> </div></div>


<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
From Genesis 5:1-5

This is the book of the genealogy of Adam. In the day that God created man, He made him in the likeness of God. He created them male and female, and blessed them and called them Mankind in the day they were created. And Adam lived one hundred and thirty years, and begot a son in his own likeness, after his image, and named him Seth. After he begot Seth, the days of Adam were eight hundred years; and he had sons and daughters. So all the days that Adam lived were nine hundred and thirty years; and he died.</div></div>

[Soundbear]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: R W G R</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Barry Morris</div><div class="ubbcode-body">off topic </div></div>

BS.

You're just scared to answer the question, because it corners you. </div></div>

Off topic. What part of that don't you understand?? Start a new thread.

[Onlygodknowswhy]

Faith means not wanting to know what is true

What can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed

Religion does 3 things effectively - divides ppl, controls ppl, and deludes them

Religion has actually convinced ppl that there is an invisable man living in the sky. George Carlin...

Philosophy is questions that may never be answered...religion is answers that are never allowed to be questioned

[Soundbear]

Your first statement is nonsense.

Your second is true.

But you don't want to think about its reverse.

The rest that you say about religion is true. But the same can be said about other things that people have "faith" in.

[Soundbear]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: R W G R</div><div class="ubbcode-body">So if you believe that is literal, then you believe John 6:

""Truly, truly, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of man and drink his blood, you have no life in you; he who eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day. For my flesh is food indeed, and my blood is drink indeed. He who eats my flesh and drinks my blood abides in me, and I in him" (John 6:53–56)."

I mean you believe in that passage literally, doncha' K Dawg?

And if not, why not... </div></div>

Take it over here.

http://www.soonet.ca/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=626809&page=1#Post626809

[Soundbear]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Simba</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If the bible was accurate, there wouldn't be 301 different interpretations of it. It also contradicts itself over and over.

</div></div>


Right. Show us the contradictions.

Heard THAT before.

[dancingqueen]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Barry Morris</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I don't think you can stake everything literally inthe bible...If Adam and Eve only had two sons but then Cain married and had children, who did he marry if his mother was the only other female on earth.

And Noah's Ark...How did he go to the antarctic to get penquins?, how did he get two of EVERY single species??? considering most people who belive in the bible believe that there is no evolution, then Noah would have to have a MUCH larger boat to carry them all...think of all the species all over the world such as Australia etc...did Noah go there and get kangaroos? Polar Bears from the Arctic???

I'm not saying I don;t believe in the teachings of Jesus, but I really don't think you can take everything literally.
Just MHO </div></div>

Adam lived like 600 plus years, so he had LOTS of children, about half girls, I'd expect.
The biblical and current laws against incest are because of genetic problems. <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Barry Morris</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Children born to brothers and sisters today risk mutations because of bad gene combinations.
This did NOT apply to Adam and Eve, whose genes would have been perfect. </div></div>"wouldn't God have seen this to happen in the futute, therefore create more people than just Adam and Eve?" So brothers and sisters could marry, for a time. The incest laws came in later.Did God not see this coming?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Barry Morris</div><div class="ubbcode-body">As to species, hey, penguins can swim don'cha know??? /ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif /ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif
And maybe he only needed to bring ONE type of bear, and they "evolved" from there. Of course, we really don't consider that evolution. Like dogs.</div></div> so, it sounds like God made a mistake????

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Barry Morris</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Funny you should mention the teachings of Jesus, because, in the end, His words are all that matter. Love God, love your neighbor. Everything in the bible and in our lives hangs on those two teachings.
</div></div>
I thought there was more God was trying to tell you...
I, personaly belive and have other Christians as friends that belive otherwise... There is more to it Barry... Much more to being "of God" than your church's interpertation of God. have an open mind, and use what God gave you /ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif Otherwise, why did God give it to you?.... THAT, I WOULD <u>LOVE </u>TO HEAR.

[Soundbear]

Hey, DQ, can't sleep either??

These aren't my church's interpretations, their mine.

"Did God not see this coming?" Good question. It's sorta like the free will vs. robots question. Yes God saw it coming. No he didn't take action the way WE would think appropriate. Why?? I don't fully understand.


"There is more to it Barry". Jesus said those we the two most important things. Who am I to argue??

[Soundbear]

I am curious? What would you consider "more"??

[dancingqueen]

I am not "of" God, but I think I understand the basic idea of God. I feel, (and I stress the word feel) that God would allow us to understand why he took the action he would. after all. He wants us to love him with all our hearts,body, and mind. If we do not understand this, we do not fully love him.

[dancingqueen]

and, no, I am not able to sleep, and, yes, a little drunik /ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/wink.gif but remain curious of how you and others of like mind see God. /ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif /ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif

[dancingqueen]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Barry Morris</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I am curious? What would you consider "more"?? </div></div>
I am not able to comprehend what God would give as "more" but if he is not willing to allow for this comprehension. Then I am not able to learn. Then it becomes a "game"... I am not interested, nor willing to partake in a game that holds my immortal soul as a prize.

[Soundbear]

My point exactly!!!

Does God require of us more than we can understand?? No way. He requires what He gave for us. Our lives.

[Soundbear]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: dancingqueen</div><div class="ubbcode-body">and, no, I am not able to sleep, and, yes, a little drunik /ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/wink.gif but remain curious of how you and others of like mind see God. /ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif /ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif </div></div>

Feel like going for a coffee?? Pie??

[Soundbear]

Ah well, back to bed.

[dancingqueen]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Barry Morris</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: dancingqueen</div><div class="ubbcode-body">and, no, I am not able to sleep, and, yes, a little drunik /ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/wink.gif but remain curious of how you and others of like mind see God. /ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif /ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif </div></div>

Feel like going for a coffee?? Pie?? </div></div>

I do!

just not this instant /ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/wink.gif I am a lill drunk /ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/wink.gif IM your way /ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif

[GenX]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Barry Morris</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: dancingqueen</div><div class="ubbcode-body">and, no, I am not able to sleep, and, yes, a little drunik /ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/wink.gif but remain curious of how you and others of like mind see God. /ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif /ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif </div></div>

Feel like going for a coffee?? Pie?? </div></div>

/ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/lol.gif

[Soundbear]

It has been my experience that meeting people with whom I have differences is an eye opening experience. There result has been on each of several occasions a genuine friendship and a lessening of hostilities.

Your call.

[GenX]

I PM'd you my response, to keep the fighting out of the thread...

(edit) You "blocked" my ability to PM, so let it be known to the Mods I attempted to do as they asked, but Barry has not.

So, here is my response...

Give me a break.

You saw someone who admitted they were drunk, someone who lives a lifestyle you disagree with, so in your best evangelical moment you tried to get him to meet you so you could begin the 'sales pitch'.

You saw a weakness when he admitted he had been drinking.

Call me impressed when you offer an invitation when he's not in such a precarious and possibly vulnerable position.

[Soundbear]

Your premise never even crossed my mind. I don't care what you think about that.

And we haven't got together yet. Maybe tomorrow.

I suggest you ask around to those who do show their faces just how often I do the "sales pitch".

You'll find I don't, unless specifically asked.

But you COULD find that out for yourself.

Your call.

[GenX]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> Your premise never even crossed my mind</div></div>

You wanted to go for a coffee and pie right then and there, it was quite obvious.

Again, let it be known to the Mods I cannot take this argument/discussion to the PM as they wish, because Barry has me blocked.

[GenX]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Barry Morris</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: dancingqueen</div><div class="ubbcode-body">and, no, I am not able to sleep, and, yes, a little drunik /ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/wink.gif but remain curious of how you and others of like mind see God. /ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif /ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif </div></div>

Feel like going for a coffee?? Pie?? </div></div>

[Soundbear]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: R W G R</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Barry Morris</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: dancingqueen</div><div class="ubbcode-body">and, no, I am not able to sleep, and, yes, a little drunik /ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/wink.gif but remain curious of how you and others of like mind see God. /ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif /ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif </div></div>

Feel like going for a coffee?? Pie?? </div></div> </div></div>

I'm awake. He's awake. I make an invitation. My motives are beyond your understanding.

"(edit) You "blocked" my ability to PM, so let it be known to the Mods I attempted to do as they asked, but Barry has not."

To the best of my memory, the mods have not mentioned this to me.

I will unblock it.

[Soundbear]

You need to do the same.

[Soundbear]

.

[Simba]

Think maybe anyone can stay on topic today?

[GenX]

Anything off topic I tried to send by PM, but Barry has it blocked.

Remember, you asked me to send anything off topic to him by PM, and not clutter threads.

[Soundbear]

forget it

[Simba]

again I ask can anyone stay on topic today??

[dancingqueen]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Barry Morris</div><div class="ubbcode-body">My point exactly!!!

Does God require of us more than we can understand?? No way. He requires what He gave for us. Our lives. </div></div>

You said so yourself, ther are things in the Bible you do not understand.
Why would he give it to us if he just wants it back? (life that is)
I think God would want more out of us than to just follow his word without understanding, don't you?

RWGR, Barry and I have been trying to set up a coffee meet for the last while /ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif I do not belive he is trying to persuade me at a time of vunerability. /ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif But I do appreciate your concern.

[GenX]

You'll be whistling a different tune when it's over, I'm sure. /ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/wink.gif

[Soundbear]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: R W G R</div><div class="ubbcode-body">You'll be whistling a different tune when it's over, I'm sure. /ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/wink.gif
</div></div>

Don't want this to disappear.

[BlueSky]

Miss Bellisimo apparently got banned for constantly beiong off topic.

RWGR keeps pooping on everyone's threads, and the moderators do nothing.

I just do not get this place.

[GenX]

How was I off topic? I responded to a response to me.

[GenX]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: bluesky</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Miss Bellisimo apparently got banned for constantly beiong off topic.

RWGR keeps pooping on everyone's threads, and the moderators do nothing.

I just do not get this place. </div></div>

Off topic

[Soundbear]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Barry Morris</div><div class="ubbcode-body">You need to do the same. </div></div>

[dancingqueen]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: dancingqueen</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Barry Morris</div><div class="ubbcode-body">My point exactly!!!

Does God require of us more than we can understand?? No way. He requires what He gave for us. Our lives. </div></div>

You said so yourself, ther are things in the Bible you do not understand.
Why would he give it to us if he just wants it back? (life that is)
I think God would want more out of us than to just follow his word without understanding, don't you?</div></div>

anyone care to respond to this? /ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif /ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif this is a pretty interesting topic, and would hate to see this thread stopped.

[BlueSky]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: dancingqueen</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: dancingqueen</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Barry Morris</div><div class="ubbcode-body">My point exactly!!!

Does God require of us more than we can understand?? No way. He requires what He gave for us. Our lives. </div></div>

You said so yourself, ther are things in the Bible you do not understand.
Why would he give it to us if he just wants it back? (life that is)
I think God would want more out of us than to just follow his word without understanding, don't you?</div></div>

anyone care to respond to this? /ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif /ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif this is a pretty interesting topic, and would hate to see this thread stopped. </div></div>

The things I don't understand keep me coming back.

Those things I do understand enrich me to the extent that I cannot think of anything greater to live for.

[GenX]

We can understand all we need to understand. Some things will just have to wait. Right now, our limited minds can only grasp so much.

I do not agree with Barry, that some of the Bible is just some puzzle, and when we hit that puzzle we just put ourselves in the fetal position and accept God just because it's a good thing to do. The Bible can be understood, but those who wish to make it say what fits best in the current lives will have trouble understanding the Bible fully. Yes, we are to "be like children", in that sometimes we just have to accept what is; but that is in regards to trying to understand God, all that He encompasses. We are not to be like children when it comes to understanding the entire Bible.

As for God taking life, that is a misunderstanding of what God does. He gives life, eternal life.

If you believe we are here for a short while, and what really counts is life everlasting, for eternity, then losing life on earth is not something terrible. In the broad view (God's view), life on earth is transitory, a mere blink of an eye compared to eternal life.

We were made in God's image. We were made to be with Him. until that day, we continue on in our earthly existence; all according to a plan we cannot and do not fully comprehend or fathom...at least not yet.

[Soundbear]

"Right now, our limited minds can only grasp so much."

"We are not to be like children when it comes to understanding the entire Bible."

Contradiction.

[GenX]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> *** You are ignoring this user ***</div></div>

/ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif /ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif

[Soundbear]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: R W G R</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> *** You are ignoring this user ***</div></div>

/ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif /ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif </div></div>

If you continue this nonsense, the moderators should have no problem with anyone else going off topic.

[Soundbear]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: dancingqueen</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: dancingqueen</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Barry Morris</div><div class="ubbcode-body">My point exactly!!!

Does God require of us more than we can understand?? No way. He requires what He gave for us. Our lives. </div></div>

You said so yourself, ther are things in the Bible you do not understand.
Why would he give it to us if he just wants it back? (life that is)
I think God would want more out of us than to just follow his word without understanding, don't you?</div></div>

anyone care to respond to this? /ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif /ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif this is a pretty interesting topic, and would hate to see this thread stopped. </div></div>

Our lives, our existence, is/are the only thing of real and eternal value that we have.

[dancingqueen]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Barry Morris</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: dancingqueen</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: dancingqueen</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Barry Morris</div><div class="ubbcode-body">My point exactly!!!

Does God require of us more than we can understand?? No way. He requires what He gave for us. Our lives. </div></div>

You said so yourself, ther are things in the Bible you do not understand.
Why would he give it to us if he just wants it back? (life that is)
I think God would want more out of us than to just follow his word without understanding, don't you?</div></div>

anyone care to respond to this? /ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif /ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif this is a pretty interesting topic, and would hate to see this thread stopped. </div></div>

Our lives, our existence, is/are the only thing of real and eternal value that we have. </div></div>

I'm not sure I understand where you are going with this... I do not deny our existance is the only eternal thing we have... does that mean we have to give it to God?
if so, what makes you think he even wants it? What would our lives or existance mean to him in comparisson to what it would mean to us?
A loving God would not want to take something that means so little to himself, yet so much to the person giving it

[dancingqueen]

so RWGR, do you belive our minds evolve? does it evolve based off of personal age, or the state of the enviroment around us?
as for the last point you made.
so in this earthly form we cannot fully love God with all our hearts, soul, and mind then? Sounds like a set-up for failure no?

[dancingqueen]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Barry Morris</div><div class="ubbcode-body">"Right now, our limited minds can only grasp so much."

"We are not to be like children when it comes to understanding the entire Bible."

Contradiction. </div></div>

I woul be interested in knowing how this is a contradiction Barry

[dancingqueen]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: bluesky</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: dancingqueen</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: dancingqueen</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Barry Morris</div><div class="ubbcode-body">My point exactly!!!

Does God require of us more than we can understand?? No way. He requires what He gave for us. Our lives. </div></div>

You said so yourself, ther are things in the Bible you do not understand.
Why would he give it to us if he just wants it back? (life that is)
I think God would want more out of us than to just follow his word without understanding, don't you?</div></div>

anyone care to respond to this? /ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif /ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif this is a pretty interesting topic, and would hate to see this thread stopped. </div></div>

The things I don't understand keep me coming back.

Those things I do understand enrich me to the extent that I cannot think of anything greater to live for.
</div></div>

what about living for that which he loves so much.... yourself?

[GenX]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: dancingqueen</div><div class="ubbcode-body">so RWGR, do you belive our minds evolve? does it evolve based off of personal age, or the state of the enviroment around us?
as for the last point you made.
so in this earthly form we cannot fully love God with all our hearts, soul, and mind then? Sounds like a set-up for failure no? </div></div>

Not sure what you're getting at, DQ.

Yes, our minds evolve, at least in a physical sense. But we can devolve in the mind as we grow older. It's all about morality.

Charlie Manson's mind evolved as he grew older, but only in a physical sense. And argument could be made Manson's mind was more mature morally when he was eight or nine years old, than when he was twenty-five or so.

Yes, we can love God with our entire being. We do so with what we have here, and that is our earthly existence. God would not expect us to do things here on earth which we may be only able to do as 'new' creations in Heaven.

[dancingqueen]

sorry, meant to clarify, as far as the evolution bit, but you kinda answered my question. I was wondering if you felt we would understand the Bible more so in this earthly life or if this is something we would understand in the afterlife If God did not excpect us to do things on earth as we could in the afterlife, why would it have been included in the single earthly refrence point we have to him?

[GenX]

No, I'm sure the Bible is very understandable in the here and now. God wouldn't give us some cosmic puzzle or some holy Rubik's Cube to play with.

Having said that, the Bible does have its rough waters to sail through, so to speak. That is why a magisterium is so crucial, in my opinion. We need leadership, coupled with a complete understanding of what the early Church Fathers thought, in order to fully appreciate and understand the Bible. When people try to understand the Bible on their own (Sola Scriptura), confusion is always the end result.

We can understand all the Bible says. It is the people who want to turn the Bible into some glorified Hollywood script for our current age that get all mixed up and confused.

[GenX]

Let me also add one will never fully understand the Bible if they do not read it and see it in the light of Tradition, also.

The Bible is the inerrant word of God, that is clear. However, it was never meant to be the only thing we use to know God and know how to live. The Bible was meant to be used in tandem with Tradition. When it is not, confusion reigns.

[dancingqueen]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: R W G R</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The Bible was meant to be used in tandem with Tradition. When it is not, confusion reigns. </div></div>

but don't you think God would have seen this coming? why wouldn't he have placed something else to be used?

[Soundbear]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: dancingqueen</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Barry Morris</div><div class="ubbcode-body">"Right now, our limited minds can only grasp so much."

"We are not to be like children when it comes to understanding the entire Bible."

Contradiction. </div></div>

I woul be interested in knowing how this is a contradiction Barry </div></div>

The first statement is true. We ARE limited in our understanding. So, the bible being written by an Author who is infinite, has infinite depth, and some of it we will NOT understand till Jesus tells us, face to face, exactly what it means.

So the second statement is untrue.

[dancingqueen]

so, why did God give us something we could not understand? if we cannot understand it, we cannot love him with all our mind. That is a contradiction.

[Soundbear]

Can a child love his father?? With all his heart, soul, and mind? Of course.

So how are we beside the infinite mind of God? We will ALWAYS be little children.

If I had been a theologian for 75 years, I would not be more than a child in His sight.

The heart, mind and soul you HAVE is what He wants. Not what we think we should be.

[dancingqueen]

If you don't understand parts of his teachings, you cannot love him with all your mind.

[Soundbear]

Did you get the child part?? Does a child understand everything?? NO way.

Can we, beside God? No way.

Where would you draw the line anyway?? Would that 75 year theologian be MORE saved???

God didn't give us more than we can understand. He gave us enough.

[KDawg]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: dancingqueen</div><div class="ubbcode-body">so, why did God give us something we could not understand? if we cannot understand it, we cannot love him with all our mind. That is a contradiction. </div></div>

You (we) have the responsibility to pray and do serious study of the Bible in order to understand it. Don't blame God because you don't get it. If you don't understand the Bible, then it's up to you to change that.

[Soundbear]

My point Kdawg, is that our relationship to God is not dependant on that.

[dancingqueen]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Barry Morris</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Did you get the child part?? Does a child understand everything?? NO way.

Can we, beside God? No way.

Where would you draw the line anyway?? Would that 75 year theologian be MORE saved???

God didn't give us more than we can understand. He gave us enough. </div></div>

but you have said that we are expected to love God in all these ways (Mind, body, and heart)
and you have also said there are parts of the Bible you do not understand.
therefore, I can only understand that you have unconditional love for God, but you also love God not knowing all he wants you to know. essentaly (sp) I am understanding you love him partialy with your mind. I have no doubt that you fully love him with your body and heart though.

that 75 year theologian would be more appreciated by God, because he tries and wants to understand God's word. I would have preference over a son who wanted to understand me and tried to understand me fully and completely than one who did not.

as far as the child concept, I do not agree that that child fully loves their father if the child does not understand their father. That is called unconditional positive regard. I do not believe in unconditional love.

[Soundbear]

"I do not believe in unconditional love."

I do.

[dancingqueen]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: KDawg</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: dancingqueen</div><div class="ubbcode-body">so, why did God give us something we could not understand? if we cannot understand it, we cannot love him with all our mind. That is a contradiction. </div></div>

You (we) have the responsibility to pray and do serious study of the Bible in order to understand it. Don't blame God because you don't get it. If you don't understand the Bible, then it's up to you to change that. </div></div>

so God will only love inteligent people? what about his children with mental disabilities?

[Soundbear]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: dancingqueen</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: KDawg</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: dancingqueen</div><div class="ubbcode-body">so, why did God give us something we could not understand? if we cannot understand it, we cannot love him with all our mind. That is a contradiction. </div></div>

You (we) have the responsibility to pray and do serious study of the Bible in order to understand it. Don't blame God because you don't get it. If you don't understand the Bible, then it's up to you to change that. </div></div>

so God will only love inteligent people? what about his children with mental disabilities? </div></div>

I think you're working with me on this one.

[dancingqueen]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Barry Morris</div><div class="ubbcode-body">"I do not believe in unconditional love."

I do. </div></div>

shouldn't there be reasons for a feeling of love?
Love is a powerful emotion, and so very complicated.
are you telling me that say for instance saitanists where correct and God is actually the evil one, and satain is the good one, the creator if you will and the Bible is a trick of God (The devil) would you still love God (The devil)?
Because that is what unconditional love would be.

[dancingqueen]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Barry Morris</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: dancingqueen</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: KDawg</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: dancingqueen</div><div class="ubbcode-body">so, why did God give us something we could not understand? if we cannot understand it, we cannot love him with all our mind. That is a contradiction. </div></div>

You (we) have the responsibility to pray and do serious study of the Bible in order to understand it. Don't blame God because you don't get it. If you don't understand the Bible, then it's up to you to change that. </div></div>

so God will only love inteligent people? what about his children with mental disabilities? </div></div>

I think you're working with me on this one. </div></div>

I'm all over the place Barry /ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/wink.gif I have more questions than answers /ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif but I will say I don't think God requires complete understanding of his words, but to love him is to love what he stans for, not the words printed in an earthly book /ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif

[KDawg]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: dancingqueen</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
so God will only love inteligent people? what about his children with mental disabilities? </div></div>

What? Do you actually think I was implying God tosses aside mentally disabled people?

You said God gave us something (the Bible) we can't understand. I said study and pray until you do understand it.

As for people who can't read or have disabilities...God judges us based on our hearts and what we know. Some know more than others, right?

[dancingqueen]

No, I don't think you meant that, but that is how what you posted came out.
and i still is coming out that way...
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">God judges us based on our hearts and what we know. Some know more than others, right?</div></div>so, the people that are incapable of understanding, do they just get a fee pass? or does God allow them into the gates of heavan if they just love without knowing why, or what they are loving?

[Soundbear]

A definition, or at least a thought.

Think about a mother's love. Does a serial killer's mother still love him/her??? Probably, though she will not disagree with the consequences that person will face.

So with God. He loves us unconditionally. But in God's case, He is also holy, and the consequence of a sinful life spent rejecting Him, is an eternity "outside" of where God is, i.e. hell.

[dancingqueen]

I'll spin this off... does a child not uinderstanding their love of his/her mother still follow under her protection? Even if she goes against her Mother's wish?

[dancingqueen]

The Mother will still love her and prevent her from any real harm won't she?

[Soundbear]

Yes, as much as she can. I believe that's the way God made her, and of course He exhibits the same characteristics Himself.

Like the serial killer example, there may come a time when she can no longer protect him/her. I think its a classic example of loving the sinner but hating the sin.

[dancingqueen]

When she can no longer love the sin?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Barry Morris</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> there may come a time when she can no longer protect him/her</div></div> God has no limits according to scripture...
I excpected otherwise from God.

[Anapeg]

Barry, you are up on these things more than I. Was it not John Wayne Gacy's father that stood in front of numerous microphones and said in a clear voice"Regardless what he has done he is still my son and I love him"?

[BlueSky]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: dancingqueen</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The Mother will still love her and prevent her from any real harm won't she? </div></div>

A wise mother will let her child fall once in a while and skin his knees.

[dancingqueen]

But would she eternaly damnate he child based off of past mistakes?

[BlueSky]

no such word as damnate, but I know what you mean.
There comes a time in the child's life when it becomes an adult and makes its own decisions. BEyond a certain point, the mother has no authority to intervene. She can only watch and hurts from a distance.

It seems that God will not override the will of those who are hellbent on making the wrong choices.

[dancingqueen]

I know, I am a terrible speller /ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif
When you say Hellbent on making wrong choices, you make it sound like these are people that intentionally go against the word of God, what about those who genuinly (sp) don't know, or don't understand the word of God?

[Soundbear]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: dancingqueen</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I know, I am a terrible speller /ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif
When you say Hellbent on making wrong choices, you make it sound like these are people that intentionally go against the word of God, what about those who genuinly (sp) don't know, or don't understand the word of God? </div></div>

God is just, beyond our understanding.

Don't let the worry about anyone else justify your own decisions.

[Soundbear]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: dancingqueen</div><div class="ubbcode-body">When she can no longer love the sin?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Barry Morris</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> there may come a time when she can no longer protect him/her</div></div> God has no limits according to scripture...
I excpected otherwise from God. </div></div>

You forget that God is holy and will not let the rebellios sinner near Him.

Since heaven is the only place to be when time ends, there is only one alternative. It's not a matter of being SENT to hell. It's a matter of being allowed into His presence.

[Soundbear]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Anapeg</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Barry, you are up on these things more than I. Was it not John Wayne Gacy's father that stood in front of numerous microphones and said in a clear voice"Regardless what he has done he is still my son and I love him"? </div></div>

I don't know, but it would be exactly what I mean.

[dancingqueen]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Barry Morris</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: dancingqueen</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I know, I am a terrible speller /ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif
When you say Hellbent on making wrong choices, you make it sound like these are people that intentionally go against the word of God, what about those who genuinly (sp) don't know, or don't understand the word of God? </div></div>

God is just, beyond our understanding.

Don't let the worry about anyone else justify your own decisions. </div></div>

What really bothers me Barry is that there are so many questions and through what you say you just leave so many questions unanswered, or unknown. God may wan us to die for him, or he may not, but I can say with all certancy that God woul want us to know what we are dying for

[Soundbear]

Don't think for a second that I have answers to all my questions. I sure don't!!!

[dancingqueen]

I know. That's exactly what I don't get
If you are going to die for someone (or for god) It means nothing unless you know and understand what it is you are dying for.

[Soundbear]

My point remains. How can I fully understand God?? By definition, it's impossible.

I go with what I DO understand.

[dancingqueen]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Barry Morris</div><div class="ubbcode-body">My point remains. How can I fully understand God?? By definition, it's impossible.</div></div> Only if he didn't want you to understand him

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Barry Morris</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I go with what I DO understand. </div></div>
What do you do with what you don't understand? Just ignore it?

[Soundbear]

Why wouldn't a loving God WANT me to understand what I need to be with Him?? Makes sense to me that He gave me enough.

Seems to me that what I don't understand does NOT affect my relationship with Him.

[dancingqueen]

Then why would have made sure it made it into the Bible?

[Soundbear]

It did.

[BlueSky]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: dancingqueen</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I know. That's exactly what I don't get
If you are going to die for someone (or for god) It means nothing unless you know and understand what it is you are dying for. </div></div>

It is a fallacy to think that because you don't understand everything about a person and his thought processes, that he cannot be trusted. You can know enough about a person to trust him (or her) but the very fact that you trust him (or her) says that you don't know or understand everything about him or her.

that's how kids are raised. "Son, you don't understand this now.. but you should still obey me.."

[dancingqueen]

I'm not saying God cannot be trusted. I am saying the Bible cannot be trusted. Very different, I trust that God gave me the capacaty to trust and love him. We don't need to fully understand him, but I don't think he would want us to die for him. Like I said, he has already had to watch his son die for that very cause (If I remember correctly, God wept that day) Why would he want to see it happen to all of his children?
Bary, That is what I am questioning (I noticed a typo that may have muddled what I was saying)
If what you do not understand does not affect your relationship with God, why did he bother to make sure it was in the Bible? Why make understanding him more complicated than it needs to be?

[Soundbear]

I'm the last one to make it complicatd, except through my own lack of skill at explaining.

God wants us to be His children, and to love and trust Him.

It's just as simple as that.

[dancingqueen]

Your going in circles Barry.
God wants more from us than you just posted, He wants us to be willing to die for him, he wants us to spread his word, he wants us to multiply ect...
Can you respond to my recent questions?

[Soundbear]

"If what you do not understand does not affect your relationship with God, why did he bother to make sure it was in the Bible? Why make understanding him more complicated than it needs to be?"

I suspect you are confusing the life we should lead, in Christ, the the actual relationship we must have.

If we are born again, we are His children. It's just that simple. And if, like a child, our understanding is small, God understands. My child is my child, even at the point where he doesn't know who I am.

But then how should we live? We should learn about God and how we should treat our fellow man.

I think all the things you are having a problem with probably fall under that.

[dancingqueen]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Bary Morris</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I suspect you are confusing the life we should lead, in Christ, the the actual relationship we must have. </div></div> I do not think God wants us to live life a certain way, but wants us to have a relationship with him. Bottom line is if he wanted us to live life a certain way, he would have given us no free will to do otherwise. An entity with the ability to control everything will never be unsatisfied, it is the very nature of having control over everything.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Barry Morris</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> If we are born again, we are His children. It's just that simple. And if, like a child, our understanding is small, God understands. My child is my child, even at the point where he doesn't know who I am.</div></div>

And even at this level of understanding, God damns these children unless they love without understanding, or knowing whom they love.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Barry Morris</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> But then how should we live? We should learn about God and how we should treat our fellow man.</div></div>

I think if God wanted us to learn about him he would give us more resources, a more time tested method than he said she said he said. No, I think God is not too big on us knowing about him untill the time comes. otherwise, he would make it known, again, a being that is capable of making anything happen is never disapointed.

[GenX]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> And even at this level of understanding, God damns these children unless they love without understanding, or knowing whom they love.</div></div>

Does a child reason through whom he or she loves? Do they intellectually consent to whom they love based on what they know about these people?

A child can love a parent without totally understanding or knowing that person, can they not?

[dancingqueen]

It is possible, untill they begin to question what it is they love. The love of a child to their parents are mostly based off of seeing them there, feeling their love, physicaly. I do not see God being there for me, I do not feel his embrace or his kisses.
In these ways the love of a child to their parent is very different to that of the love of man to God.

Note I said different, not non-existant, you just can't compare the two.

[GenX]

But it all starts out the same.

Love for the parent matures, as does love for God.

But both start out in pure innocence absent intellectual consent.

[dancingqueen]

I don't know if an infant "fresh out of the womb" is capable of true love. But an infant loves the mother through time, through expressions of love given by the mother.

[GenX]

I don't know if a <s>infant</s><span style="color: #FF0000">human</span> <s>"fresh out of the womb"</s> <span style="color: #FF0000">new to God</span> is capable of true love. But an <s>infant</s><span style="color: #CC0000">human</span> loves <s>the mother</s> <span style="color: #FF0000">God</span> through time, through expressions of love given by <s>the mother</s><span style="color: #FF0000">God</span>.

/ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif

[dancingqueen]

I see what your getting at, except, I do not see where the expressions of love is given by God... yet. I believe we will get it when we pass on, but untill then, how can God judge us untill we have a reason to love him?

[GenX]

We are made in his image; it is more natural for us to love God than for our lungs to automatically breathe.

But we can deny what is natural spiritually easier than we can what is natural biologically, or we can direct what is natural to what is unnatural.

For example, to love God is natural. However, it is unnatural to express and show that love to anything but the Object(God)it was intended for.

Where do we unnaturally direct our natural love? Towards money; sex; work; alcohol; self; anything that takes our minds and eyes off God to an unnatural degree.

And that is why there is so much unhappiness in the world. Our soul desires God, but our pride and sinfulness attempt to replace our natural longing for God with material things of this world. And it's never enough. Never.

And so we're a pretty unhappy lot, here on earth.