Alternate begining?

[1337]

Would it even be possible to consider that aliens created us, and the world in their image?

Just think about it, a species so far advanced comapred to us, with the ability to make a mini-universe (compared to their own) just for experiments?

Or is it even possible to consider a higher power being, with powers greatly exceeding our possibilities and imagination doing so?

[Macs II]

It's highly possible you were created by aliens ...I've been saying that a long time

[Soundbear]

But all that does is back up creation one more step.

"Or is it even possible to consider a higher power being, with powers greatly exceeding our possibilities and imagination doing so?"

Well, that would be God, I think.

[1337]

Yes, but could God just be a highly intelligent being from a paralell universe?

[dancingqueen]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Barry Morris</div><div class="ubbcode-body">But all that does is back up creation one more step.

"Or is it even possible to consider a higher power being, with powers greatly exceeding our possibilities and imagination doing so?"

Well, that would be God, I think. </div></div>

"God" defined means "all mighty"...
but does nothing to defend the legitamacy (sp) of the Bible.
Interesting concept T-Pot... perhaps these ET sightings relate to us seeing our God...

[BlueSky]

Chariots of the gods. Nothing new about that. In fact isnt that what Scientology believes?

[Soundbear]

DQ, we're not talking about the legitimacy of the bible.

And T-pot, you are getting funny!!

"...could God just be a highly intelligent being from a paralell universe?"

That's just an off the cuff "anything will do" idea to reduce God to just another person like us.

The problem remains of where did HE come from??

I prefer the bible story myself.

[Soundbear]

DQ said, "..perhaps these ET sightings relate to us seeing our God.."

Reminds me of a play I heard once, a comedy about Satan and his devils. One was being punished, and he told his buddy, "I'm on UFO duty. I have to put on these Christmas tree lights and fly around till Armageddon!"

[Soundbear]

What must God be, by defintion?

[1337]

*Why* must god be, by definition?

[Soundbear]

The Kalam Cosmological Argument
(1) Everything that has a beginning of its existence has a cause of its existence.
(2) The universe has a beginning of its existence.
Therefore:
(3) The universe has a cause of its existence.
(4) If the universe has a cause of its existence then that cause is God.
Therefore:
(5) God exists.

BTW, one of the ironies of this argument is that it dates back to a time when most people, outside of bible believers, thought that the universe was ageless and eternal.

[Soundbear]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Barry Morris</div><div class="ubbcode-body">What must God be, by defintion? </div></div>

[dancingqueen]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Barry Morris</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Barry Morris</div><div class="ubbcode-body">What must God be, by defintion? </div></div> </div></div>

The almighty. that is the might of a being that is not surpasable.
Why do you ask?

[Soundbear]

Quite correct. Anything else??

[dancingqueen]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Barry Morris</div><div class="ubbcode-body">But all that does is back up creation one more step.

"Or is it even possible to consider a higher power being, with powers greatly exceeding our possibilities and imagination doing so?"

Well, that would be God, I think. </div></div>

Just because one is able to do so does not mean they will do so, espesially if the almighty being wants us to love, cherish and believe in him/her.
Being almighty goes both ways Barry. He/She/It could have limitless powers that are beyond our comprehension and thus we can never hope to understand him/her/it or he/she/it could have limitless powers but "tones them down" for our benifit so he/she/it can accomplish what he/she/it wants (us to love, cherish, and believe in him/her/it)
Otherwise, what is the point in it all?

[dancingqueen]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Barry Morris</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Quite correct. Anything else?? </div></div>

yes /ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif
I would be interested in your thoughts on what I posted earlier /ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif
limitless powers does not limit one.

[Soundbear]

Do you think God wants the best for us??

[1337]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Barry Morris</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The Kalam Cosmological Argument
(1) Everything that has a beginning of its existence has a cause of its existence.
(2) The universe has a beginning of its existence.
Therefore:
(3) The universe has a cause of its existence.
(4) If the universe has a cause of its existence then that cause is God.
Therefore:
(5) God exists.

BTW, one of the ironies of this argument is that it dates back to a time when most people, outside of bible believers, thought that the universe was ageless and eternal.</div></div>

So if everything in existence has to be created. Who created god?

Your going to say, he is beyond our realm of reality. Wouldn't it be naive to say the universe ISN'T beyond our realm of reality, since we don't know jack about it?

Why does everything HAVE to be created? Wouldn't that be naive to think this?

If you have the capabilities of believing in a omnipotent being such as god, can't you accept not knowing?

What happens when you die, and nothing happens?

[Soundbear]

"What happens when you die, and nothing happens?"

We'll ALL find out!!! /ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif /ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif


Consider that nothing can be created by something inside itself.

So God MUST be OUTSIDE the universe.

P.S. I accept not knowing a lot of things.

[dancingqueen]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Barry Morris</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Do you think God wants the best for us?? </div></div>

no, I don't think God wants the best of us, or the worst of us otherwise we would have been created with robotic thinking. I think God wants us to be how he created us... as individuals.
I am looking forward to a responce from my previous post /ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif

[dancingqueen]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: T-pot</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If you have the capabilities of believing in a omnipotent being such as god, can't you accept not knowing?</div></div>
I think at times "not knowing" is harder to accept than an omnipotent being watching over us, loving us when no one else does.

[dancingqueen]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Barry Morris</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Consider that nothing can be created by something inside itself. </div></div>
I, and science disagree..
An Apple has a seed within itself. an apple seed can create more apples.
This kind of beauty is seen in (I think) all forms of life.
In fact, everything is created from within.

[1337]

The apple grows the seed which grows the apple which grows the seed which grows the apple which grows the seed which grows the apple which grows the seed which grows the apple which grows the seed.... i'm bored.


To accept "not knowing" should not be hard. Why do we HAVE to know? Isn't it kind of weird to devote so much time and energy, just to hope?

You're HOPING you will go to a better place after death, you're HOPING someone is looking after you.

Most people believe out of fear. Fear of not having a life after death, fear of going to hell, fear of god himself.

I"m not trying to change anyones mind. I just don't need hope to be satisfied with my life. I'm also trying to understand, WHY people need to hang on to a fictional character that explains what can't be explained.

It is EASY, and I really do mean easy, to make up a fictional character to explain what can't be explained. It is also easy to understand the egos of the so called writers of the bible.

King James version, is it or is it not proven that Kings and Queens manipulated religion to get people to follow them? or their (kings and queens) own beleifs?

Is it that far fetched, that over the years, the translations have been lost, miswrote or misunderstood? Little twists and turns added for drama and to instill fear?

How can someone believe in "god" with just the theories he created everything?

Where is the seperation of the seas? Talking snakes? Humans living to be 5000-10000 years old (Noah, Adam and Eve, etc)

How is it when people today have sex with their siblings, there is a high chance of mental retardation, but adam and eve and their offspring did not fall under this?

If one person (Jesus) has x amount of people seriously believing he was god or the son of god, could it not be possible these people would either A believe in anything? or B altered true events to make Jesus look more godly?

[GenX]

Jesus is an algebra problem now?

[Soundbear]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: dancingqueen</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Barry Morris</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Consider that nothing can be created by something inside itself. </div></div>
I, and science disagree..
An Apple has a seed within itself. an apple seed can create more apples.
This kind of beauty is seen in (I think) all forms of life.
In fact, everything is created from within. </div></div>

No, you are quite wrong. I said CREATED, not reproduced.

[Soundbear]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: T-pot</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The apple grows the seed which grows the apple which grows the seed which grows the apple which grows the seed which grows the apple which grows the seed which grows the apple which grows the seed.... i'm bored.


To accept "not knowing" should not be hard. Why do we HAVE to know? Isn't it kind of weird to devote so much time and energy, just to hope?

You're HOPING you will go to a better place after death, you're HOPING someone is looking after you.

Most people believe out of fear. Fear of not having a life after death, fear of going to hell, fear of god himself.

I"m not trying to change anyones mind. I just don't need hope to be satisfied with my life. I'm also trying to understand, WHY people need to hang on to a fictional character that explains what can't be explained.

It is EASY, and I really do mean easy, to make up a fictional character to explain what can't be explained. It is also easy to understand the egos of the so called writers of the bible.

King James version, is it or is it not proven that Kings and Queens manipulated religion to get people to follow them? or their (kings and queens) own beleifs?

Is it that far fetched, that over the years, the translations have been lost, miswrote or misunderstood? Little twists and turns added for drama and to instill fear?

How can someone believe in "god" with just the theories he created everything?

Where is the seperation of the seas? Talking snakes? Humans living to be 5000-10000 years old (Noah, Adam and Eve, etc)

How is it when people today have sex with their siblings, there is a high chance of mental retardation, but adam and eve and their offspring did not fall under this?

If one person (Jesus) has x amount of people seriously believing he was god or the son of god, could it not be possible these people would either A believe in anything? or B altered true events to make Jesus look more godly?

</div></div>

T-Pot, when you ask a dozen questions, you will not get an answer.

Is one of any interest to you, or are they all just excuses?

[1337]

I'm just trying to understand. I grew up with only believing what i can see, touch, experience. I would like to believe in god but i find it hard.

Without this information, i can't.

[Soundbear]

If I SEE a life changed by what a person claims to be a touch from God, if I can TOUCH a person who still lives, years after the doctor's gave up hope, and if I EXPERIENCE the power of God in my own life, then I BELIEVE there is Something at work beyond my understanding.

Is it hard to believe in God?? Sometimes it is. Am I 100 percent sure of my beliefs, my faith? No, I'm not.

I notice one interesting thing in Scripture. Men are never condemned for not knowing, they are condemned for REJECTING.

[dancingqueen]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Barry Morris</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: dancingqueen</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Barry Morris</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Consider that nothing can be created by something inside itself. </div></div>
I, and science disagree..
An Apple has a seed within itself. an apple seed can create more apples.
This kind of beauty is seen in (I think) all forms of life.
In fact, everything is created from within. </div></div>

No, you are quite wrong. I said CREATED, not reproduced. </div></div>

Do you think a new life is just a reproduction?
That's where I see creation, a new life being created.
The lives of apples aand plants are not typicaly as importaint to us but the birth of a new apple could be seen in much the same way.

[Soundbear]

Sorry, there's a difference between creation and reproduction. Science can encourage and direct reproduction but it cannot create life.

[dancingqueen]

I do not disagree that creation and reproduction are different. and I see what you mean now that nothing can be created by something inside itself. <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Barry Morris</div><div class="ubbcode-body">"What happens when you die, and nothing happens?"

We'll ALL find out!!! /ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif /ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif


Consider that nothing can be created by something inside itself.

So God MUST be OUTSIDE the universe.

P.S. I accept not knowing a lot of things.
</div></div>
There is not one thing that God MUST do or be, that defies the very definition of God.

[Soundbear]

You remind me of the question a catholic buddy used to ask, "Can God make a stone so big He can't move it?"

To him this proved something profound.

To anyone else, it was just dumb.

[dancingqueen]

That would fall under one of the many things about God we could never understand. I'm okay with that because the answer tothis question does not impact my life with God, or my relationship with God.
There are some questions that we just don't need to know because they do not affect us.

[dancingqueen]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: dancingqueen</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Barry Morris</div><div class="ubbcode-body">But all that does is back up creation one more step.

"Or is it even possible to consider a higher power being, with powers greatly exceeding our possibilities and imagination doing so?"

Well, that would be God, I think. </div></div>

Just because one is able to do so does not mean they will do so, espesially if the almighty being wants us to love, cherish and believe in him/her.
Being almighty goes both ways Barry. He/She/It could have limitless powers that are beyond our comprehension and thus we can never hope to understand him/her/it or he/she/it could have limitless powers but "tones them down" for our benifit so he/she/it can accomplish what he/she/it wants (us to love, cherish, and believe in him/her/it)
Otherwise, what is the point in it all? </div></div>

I would be interested in your opinion of this Barry.

[starterwiz]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: T-pot</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I'm just trying to understand. I grew up with only believing what i can see, touch, experience. I would like to believe in god but i find it hard.

Without this information, i can't. </div></div>
How about Ultraviolet light, X-rays, Radio and TV signals, atoms, electrons, neutrons...the list goes on.
You might say that you get to experience the effects of these invisible phenomena, but you can't sense them yourself.
God is the same.
The thing is that no-one can acurately describe to you how, who, or what He is, so they do the best they can.
One day, it will hit you with total understanding, that which cannot be explained, the thought they were trying to convey.

[Soundbear]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: dancingqueen</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: dancingqueen</div><div class="ubbcode-body">...Just because one is able to do so does not mean they will do so, espesially if the almighty being wants us to love, cherish and believe in him/her.
Being almighty goes both ways Barry. He/She/It could have limitless powers that are beyond our comprehension and thus we can never hope to understand him/her/it or he/she/it could have limitless powers but "tones them down" for our benifit so he/she/it can accomplish what he/she/it wants (us to love, cherish, and believe in him/her/it)
Otherwise, what is the point in it all? </div></div>

I would be interested in your opinion of this Barry. </div></div>

I'm not quite sure of your question.

What's the point of life? I'm told, and I believe, to glorify God. Why? I'm not 100 percent sure. Because in His infinite wisdom, He knows that this is the best thing we could possibly do, I suppose.

God DOES have unlimited power. Not power constrained by our dumb "logic" either. His power IS beyond our comprehension. His love for us, too.

He wants us to trust and submit to Him.

BTW, God is neither he, she or it. God is GOD.

Does this help? if not, please rephrase.

[dancingqueen]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: dancingqueen</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Barry Morris</div><div class="ubbcode-body">But all that does is back up creation one more step.

"Or is it even possible to consider a higher power being, with powers greatly exceeding our possibilities and imagination doing so?"
Well, that would be God, I think. </div></div>

Just because one is able to do so does not mean they will do so, espesially if the almighty being wants us to love, cherish and believe in him/her.
Being almighty goes both ways Barry. He/She/It could have limitless powers that are beyond our comprehension and thus we can never hope to understand him/her/it or he/she/it could have limitless powers but "tones them down" for our benifit so he/she/it can accomplish what he/she/it wants (us to love, cherish, and believe in him/her/it)
Otherwise, what is the point in it all? </div></div>

Sorry, I should have kept it in the context I had posted it in
God does have powers beyond our consideration for sure, I will not deny that. Why would a God who wants us to Love him, believe in him, to know him use powers so beyond our understanding? If he wants us to know him it is quite reasonable to say he would enable us to know him.

[dancingqueen]

I hope that clarifies /ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif I'm not always very good at putting thoughts in my head on paper /ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smirk.gif

[1337]

Why if god wants us to love him, would he let a young man get murdered on a bus?

You can say he has more power then any of us can comprehend, if we can't comprehend the extent of his power, how do you know it exists?

And Barry, I asked 12 questions because I would like them ALL answered.


DQ you had said "There is not one thing that God MUST do or be, that defies the very definition of God. "

IF our very being is to glorify God, the one thing he MUST do is accept us. For he said he would, there for he must. To say there isn't anything he must do, would be wrong.

[Onlygodknowswhy]

Creationism = many religions created by "man"

[dancingqueen]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: T-pot</div><div class="ubbcode-body">DQ you had said "There is not one thing that God MUST do or be, that defies the very definition of God. "

IF our very being is to glorify God, the one thing he MUST do is accept us. For he said he would, there for he must. To say there isn't anything he must do, would be wrong.</div></div>

It would be MORAL for him to do so,yet, he is not bound to do so... He never once said he would glorify us.Show me this and I will readlly accept inncorrectedness. This is why I cannot accept what youre average Christian will say, to me God is moral... This is why I will reffer to a mind game when it comes to accepting Christ as my saviour.

(Like I have said before... I am not good at relaying what I think on to paper, or written word as I am thinking it inside my head... /ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif )

[starterwiz]

There are very many levels of morality...even within yourself.
You walk by a bum on the street, and the "moral" part of you wants to help him, while the "selfish" part of you wants to keep your money.
Or the "global warming" scenario...who wants to stop driving and take a bus? Or better yet walk?
Yet we all profess to be "moral". But we all sin.
And no-one can say that they don't.
That's what God wants for us, even if it's not possible....because it is possible.
Just not quite yet.
Maybe tomorrow... Or the next day...well maybe some day...

[dancingqueen]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: TheOneTheOnly</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Creationism = many religions created by "man" </div></div>

or

Creationisim = The belief that this didn't all happen by accident

[1337]

The point i was trying to make was.

It says "Glorify god, and he will accept us" (paraphrase)

If we glorify him, with all our heart and energy, that means he MUST accept us, if he does not - then he doesn't speak the truth. So he MUST do it, because he is pure and holy.

[dancingqueen]

regardless, this is also a matter that falls under the question a friend of Barry's had asked. "Can god create a stone so heavy he cannot lift it?" and the answer is not comprehensable.
If you can think of an answer to that leaving no doubt in my mind then you will have my complete and undivided attention

Do you have the verse of what you are paraphrasing?

[Soundbear]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: dancingqueen</div><div class="ubbcode-body">regardless, this is also a matter that falls under the question a friend of Barry's had asked. "Can god create a stone so heavy he cannot lift it?" and the answer is not comprehensable.
If you can think of an answer to that leaving no doubt in my mind then you will have my complete and undivided attention

Do you have the verse of what you are paraphrasing?
</div></div>

It's not the answer that's incomprehensible. It's the question that makes no logical sense.

I don't doubt we would have your attention if we gave you an answer.

But here's one you won't like.

Those who reject the authority of God over their lives will grasp at any straw to justify their sin.