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lynys
09-26-2008, 10:35 AM
I got into this conversation with someone yesterday at work, and it really got me to thinking. And, with this year being an election year, I wonder what our thoughts as a community about this subject are.

My opinion... young offenders need to be stopped. NOW! I am tired of reading about young offenders being charged with break and enters, possession, assault, theft, etc. There are so many everyday that are charged with a new crime, but yet they were on probation for a previous one.

I am sorry, but isn't enough, enough?

You want to teach these "young" offenders, then show them there ARE consequences for their actions. You break the law, you get a stiff penalty.

When I was a young teen, and I was outside playing sports, running around, reading, going to school, and working. My parents both worked, and my sister and I did stay home alone at times. Yet, we behaved (one of us more then the other hehe)

We were never arrested. Did not break into people's homes, steal, etc.

This was at a time where there WERE consequences for breaking the law. Since the young offenders act (I know the name is changed now, but same thing) came into effect, I can't help but wonder when it all ends? Youth crime is ridiculous, as is drug abuse and assaults. Why would the government basically set up these children to failure?

The consequences are menial and need to be stepped up. Too many kids are running around breaking the law, because 1) they can get away with a slap on the wrist, 2) they will lose any record they have when they turn 18, and 3) they are used by drug rings BECAUSE they are a minor.

Am I the only one who see this as being a problem?

Simba
09-26-2008, 10:38 AM
nope you're not the only one!

J*B
09-26-2008, 10:39 AM
We all see it as a problem, but I'm afraid it's not going to change anytime soon.. it's just another one of the government's miss-thought set of laws.

vixen
09-26-2008, 11:32 AM
I think CAS is too involved in how good parents are rasing there children and not involved enough in how the nonexistant one is rasing theres. Cas has become a resource for people who feel they are getting what they want ie.. two neighbours one dicagrees with the other and instead of dealing with that person as an adult should that person calls Cas to make the other one life hard. I have seen it before.. cas should be changed to MOM!!! now the law just thinks about pertecting the offenders rights you wouldnt want to take away theres chances of being something someday if we leave them with a record.

givememore
09-26-2008, 11:38 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: vixen</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I think CAS is too involved in how good parents are rasing there children and not involved enough in how the nonexistant one is rasing theres. Cas has become a resource for people who feel they are getting what they want ie.. two neighbours one dicagrees with the other and instead of dealing with that person as an adult should that person calls Cas to make the other one life hard. I have seen it before.. cas should be changed to MOM!!! now the law just thinks about pertecting the offenders rights you wouldnt want to take away theres chances of being something someday if we leave them with a record. </div></div>

I second that. Cas won't intervene where they are needed(in most cases) but are sure to knock on the door of others who don't need any of their wise advise!

EyelashExtensions
09-26-2008, 11:38 AM
Parents should be responsible if their child is under a certain age and a crime is committed. Bring it back to the parents responsibility and charge both the child/teen and parent. I'm sure if there was a punishment for the parent as well they would start being more responsible for their child.

Strife
09-26-2008, 11:46 AM
In today's society, tenns are judged by how bad they are. More and more teens are being pressured into breaking the law, whether it be stealing a car, or stealing a chocolate bar. Boys are more prone to this than girls but I have seen cases where girls are used as a distraction so that others can do the dirty deed. If there is one thing I would change about the Young Offender Act is that I would like to see names published as if they were adults. The law protects these young offenders by not releasing their name so there is no shame on the family, thus no repercussions other than what the parents and the judge give. I know if I were to see my son's name in the paper or on Soonews saying that he attempted to steal a car or committed a break and enter, I would feel ashamed.

dancingqueen
09-26-2008, 11:54 AM
Wasn't there stats showing somewhere else about adults committing more crimes?
Or do we just ignore all that pesky stuff?
The YCJA and the YOA have been steadily decreasing crimes caused by youth significantly since the original implementation of the YOA. I think many people have problems with the now YCJA because it prevents them from knowing who got charged with what, and prevents many people from being able to gossip. Or prevents a desire for revenge on something that may very well have had nothing to do with you. I was literally floored when during our discussion about the curfew that someone honestly did not know why the YCJA was in place and thought it was there for some ridiculus reason I cannot recall.

EyelashExtensions
09-26-2008, 11:58 AM
I don't think that would change anything, because the teen isn't going to think about the consequences of their name published, they already aren't thinking of the consequences. The crime will already be committed so there is nothing the parent can do about their name being published. Publishing a child's name just leaves them open to be teased by their peers(making a situation worse), allows access to their names and addresses open to pedophiles, leaves a parent helpless at protecting their child from an abusive parent(if that be the case). It does no good other than informing the public. A lot of good teens have a mishap and don't ever break the law again. If it is a very serious crime I could see the need to publish names but not for the majority of them.

Madmax
09-26-2008, 12:18 PM
The problem with young offenders is while in school growing up they have learned the manipluative head game of knowing what the consequences are for certain things which in many cases is a minimal thing to a suspension which is nothing as that what they wanted anyways.

So as they grow older and then try to feel out the law in the young offenders act there is hardly anything that can really be done to them .. so what a few days in a little cell once in awhile .. many will not care and even love the bad [censored] name they get from it.

So it has to be over hauled and the school system as well in a MAJOR way to not allow them to be suspended for every little misdeed and little consequences for their actions.

I think its time the strap comes back and give these little farts a beating once in awhile so they grow up with discipline that will matter to them.

Guest
09-26-2008, 12:26 PM
I think the main two issues are the fact that the youth's slate is wiped clean at age 18, and the lack of any responsibility placed on the parent(s). Why not get into all the trouble you want....it doesn't follow you on the record into adulthood. Charging parents along with the youth will force the parent(s) to accept responsibility for their children's actions.

The idea of an act such as YCJA is a good idea providing it also protects the general population. Last I looked, all the crimes youth are committing are the same type of crimes as adults.

The Piper
09-26-2008, 01:16 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lizzardskills</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> Publishing a child's name just leaves them open to be teased by their peers(making a situation worse), allows access to their names and addresses open to pedophiles, leaves a parent helpless at protecting their child from an abusive parent(if that be the case). </div></div>

Bah! Maybe a little humiliation on both the "offenders" and the parents part would be a good thing. If enough people start rippin' on them about being/having a dumb a$$ then maybe the "offender" will be inclined to not be a dumb a$$. I know several instances (first-hand I might add) of young offenders and in all cases the cause is: poor parenting imo.

Craig Huckerby
09-26-2008, 01:48 PM
..and we go round and round ...I got enough flak on the curfew issue, I'll keep my lips sealed on this one.

bluekrissyspikes
09-26-2008, 05:06 PM
I think they should be punished just as an adult would. there's no excuse for them to be allowed to get away with so much and i know for a fact that so many just don't care because they know their record isn't going to be permanant anyways.

lynys
09-27-2008, 10:23 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: dancingqueen</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Wasn't there stats showing somewhere else about adults committing more crimes?
Or do we just ignore all that pesky stuff?
The YCJA and the YOA have been steadily decreasing crimes caused by youth significantly since the original implementation of the YOA. I think many people have problems with the now YCJA because it prevents them from knowing who got charged with what, and prevents many people from being able to gossip. Or prevents a desire for revenge on something that may very well have had nothing to do with you. I was literally floored when during our discussion about the curfew that someone honestly did not know why the YCJA was in place and thought it was there for some ridiculus reason I cannot recall. </div></div>

Yes, but those adults that commit the crimes end up off the street because THEY have stricter penalties. These kids get community service and a "do not do that again" with a slap on the wrist.

Then, the next day, they are once again back to the daily grind... breaking into our homes, cars, vandalizing our properties, etc.

Take a hard look at the police beat lately. Many of the children (yes, children) that are arrested have prior impositions on their records. But, come 18... poof! Gone.

Craig, as far as the curfew, I would not mind hearing what you have to say. I do believe it CAN be enforced in some manner, and should be. There is absolutely no reason for a child to be out roaming the streets at midnight. And, any employer who does employ these kids, should be letting them leave work at a reasonable hour! When I was a teen working, I was sent home on the 10 o'clock bus. no matter what the status of my job completion.

Parents need to be given the ability to be responsible parents back! They bore them, they should be allowed to raise them as need be! The only times there should be interventions by CAS, police, government, is when the child is being ABUSED (and don't tell me getting spanked for bad behaviour is abuse...see the other thread for that opinion)

Craig Huckerby
09-27-2008, 10:32 AM
Yep, I agree Lynys.

CrowellPhotographs
09-27-2008, 11:10 AM
Just to throw in my useless 2 cents, I really don't think that increasing the penalties are the best idea. I'd have to start with the perception of crime rates first. I had recently heard a stories on CBC radio and other media outlets talking about crime rates having gone down, yet public perception believes it has gone up. In some cases it is believed by the public that it has gone up by LARGE percentages. WRONG.
Someone mentioned looking at police beat and seeing that these young offenders are repeat offenders. I was under the impression that this is IMPOSSIBLE and Illegal to publish even that material. Again, there is a classic example of someone's perception of young offenders being WRONG. And yet they are so convinced that they perpetuate this untruth to others.

My biggest argument about this would need some stats which I don't have. I believe that it is commonly thought that jail is considered "Crime College".
It would be interesting to see the stats of repeat offenders who underwent hard time while youth vs. those who fell under the YOA. I'd wager my left foot that the levels have actually dropped since. (Despite public perception)

Don't get me wrong, there are some little punks out there that are doomed to spend their lives either causing chit or behind bars. The problem is that no matter what system is in place, they're going to do it. With stricter penalties, you're going to force many relatively good kids who made a stupid mistake to spend time with the worst of the worst and increase the possibilities of their turning into hardened criminals. These good kids are scared of jail no matter how "soft" it is under the YOA. The kids who already don't care about these softer sentences, probably won't care about slightly tougher ones.

All in all, this has become a political tool. Unfortunately, some parties started this by preying on the public's inaccurate perception of crime rates to win votes. Despicable, because this is only furthering the divide between the baby boomers and the following generations.

lynys
09-27-2008, 11:25 AM
I read the police beat everyday. It does point out that some of the "kids" do have prior impositions on their record. Yesterday for instance "17 year-old male youth was also charged with two counts of breach of probation"

Also, the fire at Korah. Does anyone believe it was an adult that climbed on top of the school and set a generator on fire? I have my own doubts.

How many people leave their doors unlocked in the daytime anymore? I don't. No idea when someone will slip in. Growing up, my parents always left the door unlocked. Hell, they left it open as well. Now, it is locked even as they sit at the kitchen table.

The crime rates are not inaccurate. Nearly everyday, there are postings in police beat about break and enters, thefts, drug charges, domestic assaults, etc.

They will only get worse as these young offenders grow up and cannot escape the lifestyle they spent their youth in. You spend 6 years selling drugs to your peers, petty thefts, assaults and after menial convictions, hit 18 and decide, "well I am off to university... bye bye drugs, hello being a poor student living off of osap" Right.

That kid will continue selling drugs to support themselves. Someone will owe him money one day, and a scuffle will ensue... and yep, someone gets badly hurt... or dead.

That kid who was not dealt with accordingly as a kid, you know, when they could have helped him, becomes an adult with little or no real idea of the consequences to your actions.

This has zero to do with politician's exaggerating the facts, and everything to do with saving our society from the future. I for one would like to feel safe in my future.

CrowellPhotographs
09-27-2008, 11:45 AM
Unfortunately lynys, it does have to do with exaggeration of facts. The crime rate is DOWN, despite what anyone says, feels, or believes.
Like I said before, it would also be advisable to look into the repeat offender rates from before the YOA was implemented compared to now. That would give you the real answer.

You're right crime rates are NOT inaccurate. But you're not referencing crime rates, you're referencing coverage of crimes. There will always be crime. There's a huge difference. Even in countries where they remove hands or have broad ranging conditions to implement the death penalty, there is crime.

You brought up a good scenario. Unfortunately, it works more against your case than it does for your case. Agreed that there will be circumstances and individuals that will continue this path regardless of the punishment they receive when they are minors, but we've got to focus on the MAJORITY.

Same kid, removal of YOA:
Kid spends 6 years selling drugs, name gets published, criminal record, goes to JAIL. What are the effects of this? can't get into university if he/she wanted(criminal record works against you on application process.) No money to pay for school and turn life around(been in jail), can't get job to pay for school to turn life around. What's the only thing to turn to? SELLING DRUGS AGAIN! Now though, they've made other criminal friends, get harsher drugs and more of them and are smarter at not getting caught. Now they have the ability to ruin EVEN MORE PEOPLES LIVES.

Even with this scenario, you've chosen a kid who was doomed before they even got caught. Lets start with someone else.
Honor roll student gets in fight to protect friend, SERIOUSLY hurts someone by accident.(only crime ever committed, stupid mistake, but still good kid)
Kid goes to Jail, criminal record, no school, no job, chance to socialize with criminals. What opportunities does this kid have now? His/her life is RUINED. All for one mistake.

There are a multitude of stupid mistakes that this GOOD kid could have made that would ruin his/her life under this proposed law change.
The point is that this will only further hinder Good kids, and do nothing really to stop the already bad ones. Just keep them off the street for a year or two longer. The problem is that when they get out, they're even better criminals and now have desperation as motivation to commit MORE crimes.

Sweet_And_Innocent
09-28-2008, 07:44 AM
Although I do agree that the YCJA needs to be revised please keep in mind that alot of these youths are products of their enviornment. Some have nowhere to go once their released so they end up couch surfing going to from differnt family memebers house or even end up homeless. And right back where they were.. commiting crimes. You would also be surprised the amount of youth with some serious mental illnesses who are not able to recieve the professional help they need to the exent they need because they are under the age of 18. By no means is this an excuse for their actions, however it is a contributing factor. Part of the reason why the YCJA came into play was to try and help rehabilitate the young offenders back into the community to be able to make positive choices. Harsher punishments on SOME of these youth only create further damage and less chance of them changing their lives around. Sometimes it works.. sometimes it doesnt. There needs to be a change but at this point i dont think anyone really knows what the most effective strategy would be.

Anapeg
09-28-2008, 10:02 AM
CP; While your views drive me up the wall(small L liberals rub me the wrong way, you and DQ included) you make points which I cannot refute. Therefore I would propose allowing the "poor unfortunate child" two, maximum three 'mistakes' then all bets are off. Publish, punish, treat as a criminal for they have made it clear they hold OUR values in contempt.

Craig Huckerby
09-28-2008, 10:14 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: CrowellPhotographs</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Unfortunately lynys, it does have to do with exaggeration of facts. The crime rate is DOWN, despite what anyone says, feels, or believes.
Like I said before, it would also be advisable to look into the repeat offender rates from before the YOA was implemented compared to now. That would give you the real answer.

You're right crime rates are NOT inaccurate. But you're not referencing crime rates, you're referencing coverage of crimes. There will always be crime. There's a huge difference. Even in countries where they remove hands or have broad ranging conditions to implement the death penalty, there is crime.

You brought up a good scenario. Unfortunately, it works more against your case than it does for your case. Agreed that there will be circumstances and individuals that will continue this path regardless of the punishment they receive when they are minors, but we've got to focus on the MAJORITY.

Same kid, removal of YOA:
Kid spends 6 years selling drugs, name gets published, criminal record, goes to JAIL. What are the effects of this? can't get into university if he/she wanted(criminal record works against you on application process.) No money to pay for school and turn life around(been in jail), can't get job to pay for school to turn life around. What's the only thing to turn to? SELLING DRUGS AGAIN! Now though, they've made other criminal friends, get harsher drugs and more of them and are smarter at not getting caught. Now they have the ability to ruin EVEN MORE PEOPLES LIVES.

Even with this scenario, you've chosen a kid who was doomed before they even got caught. Lets start with someone else.
Honor roll student gets in fight to protect friend, SERIOUSLY hurts someone by accident.(only crime ever committed, stupid mistake, but still good kid)
Kid goes to Jail, criminal record, no school, no job, chance to socialize with criminals. What opportunities does this kid have now? His/her life is RUINED. All for one mistake.

There are a multitude of stupid mistakes that this GOOD kid could have made that would ruin his/her life under this proposed law change.
The point is that this will only further hinder Good kids, and do nothing really to stop the already bad ones. Just keep them off the street for a year or two longer. The problem is that when they get out, they're even better criminals and now have desperation as motivation to commit MORE crimes. </div></div>

So what you're saying is, let the kids do whatever they want until they reach the age of adulthood? In other words, let them get away with it because punishing them for their crime will affect them later on in life? Did I understand that correctly?

Jackie B
09-28-2008, 11:26 AM
I didn't read through every post, so maybe someone already said this. If there are more and more teens all the time committing crime, then it stands to reason that there would be more teens turning into adults, who have made this a way of life, hence there being more adults committing crimes as well.

And about an adult starting a fire at Korah, I know nothing about this, but the day before someone's 18th birthday, they're a teen, and then the day of they magically turn into an adult. /ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif They're not any wiser, just older.

lynys
09-28-2008, 12:58 PM
The way I see it is...

Parents should be held accountable for their child's behaviour, but they also need to be able to punish them as well. Society has become a joke. You can't punish (grounding, yelling, etc.) your child because it is abuse. Also, anytime you DO manage to get your say in, your little angel throws in your face that they will call the police, CAS, whatever, which more often then not, scares the parent into backing down.

It's is sad really. These children have too many rights, and that is a great injustice.

I will repeat. When I was a child, I did as I was told or was punished accordingly. Spanked, grounded, things taken away, etc. I lived to tell the tale, and am glad for it! I knew right from wrong, kept my nose clean, and have yet to get into any trouble whatsoever. I had curfews (yet could be trusted to go out) came home when I was supposed to (well, there was that one time...) and all the while worked, went to school (and did well), and had plenty of time for family and friends.

Seems to me that they are trying to grow up too fast, and the parents have no choice but to let them (for fear of really losing them). The way I see it, if they are able to do adult things, want to be treated as an adult, they should be punished as an adult would.

A teen steals a car, punish them as an adult would be punished. They break into people's homes, punish them accordingly. Drugs, alcohol, etc. (punish them)

I have rights too. I should be able to know which teens out there can and cannot be trusted. If my next door neighbour's kid has been charged for numerous break and enters, I should be given the opportunity to protect my home from this child. If we know who to watch out for, maybe they won't find it as easy to break the law. /ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/wink.gif

Craig Huckerby
09-28-2008, 02:00 PM
100% agree. It's unfortunate that some of the crimes are being committed by youth - but a law ia a law and they know they are doing wrong - punish them like an adult. Enough of this "kids don't know better and if we punish them, they'll end up committing more crime" crap.

GenX
09-28-2008, 03:02 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: lynys</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I got into this conversation with someone yesterday at work, and it really got me to thinking. And, with this year being an election year, I wonder what our thoughts as a community about this subject are.

My opinion... young offenders need to be stopped. NOW! I am tired of reading about young offenders being charged with break and enters, possession, assault, theft, etc. There are so many everyday that are charged with a new crime, but yet they were on probation for a previous one.

I am sorry, but isn't enough, enough?

You want to teach these "young" offenders, then show them there ARE consequences for their actions. You break the law, you get a stiff penalty.

When I was a young teen, and I was outside playing sports, running around, reading, going to school, and working. My parents both worked, and my sister and I did stay home alone at times. Yet, we behaved (one of us more then the other hehe)

We were never arrested. Did not break into people's homes, steal, etc.

This was at a time where there WERE consequences for breaking the law. Since the young offenders act (I know the name is changed now, but same thing) came into effect, I can't help but wonder when it all ends? Youth crime is ridiculous, as is drug abuse and assaults. Why would the government basically set up these children to failure?

The consequences are menial and need to be stepped up. Too many kids are running around breaking the law, because 1) they can get away with a slap on the wrist, 2) they will lose any record they have when they turn 18, and 3) they are used by drug rings BECAUSE they are a minor.

Am I the only one who see this as being a problem? </div></div>

First of all, once Bush is gone everything will be wonderful. One way or another, he is to blame for young offenders running wild in the streets of Sault, Ontario.

Second, Lynys is one hot babe. /ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/blush.gif

lynys
09-28-2008, 03:58 PM
Amen to that. (on both counts)

Super Gram
09-28-2008, 07:18 PM
If I am not wrong..I think this why Harris called an election. He wanted to pass some laws for teens and adults. The other parties were so busy running the conservatives down. Harris said "fish or cut bait". Nothing is getting done so he called an election.

I am not talking politics I am talking Canadian law business for every day living.

Tutones
09-28-2008, 10:17 PM
Do you mean Harper? Harris was Premier of Ontario and had no jurisdiction over Criminal Law, which is a Federal Matter.

EyelashExtensions
09-28-2008, 10:53 PM
It all boils down to parenting, not parenting enough or not being able to parent. I remember when I was a teen and I was not even close to as mature as I am now. They do feel above the law and indestructible. I know one girl who has over 10 charges, she is 15. Her parents can try to keep her home, but there are bills to pay, they go to work and she is gone! Parents can't give her a whooping like they would like to. All she would do is call the cops and that would mean the parents being charged and losing their jobs. I also know 2 teens who were total bad a$$e$ who did their time and turned their lives around. They have become law biding, employed and educated citizens. A lot of these kids think its great that they end up in jail, or that they have been charged and publishing their names won't deter them. A parent can't force a teen into therapy, and where are they going to send them if they have a drug problem? No facilities worth while around here for teens, the programs that are in place are a joke to them. Stiffer punishments might be effective with some but rehabilitating them and giving them the tools they need to lead successful lives are their only hope. Many of them have huge issues, parents are drug addicts, some are already addicted to drugs, abandoned, abuse, whatever the situation might be. Sending them to jail for longer periods of time will only make them smarter adult criminals. I'm not saying the shouldn't be punished, just that sending them off to prison does nothing but make them smarter criminals.

CrowellPhotographs
09-29-2008, 12:52 AM
"So what you're saying is, let the kids do whatever they want until they reach the age of adulthood? In other words, let them get away with it because punishing them for their crime will affect them later on in life? Did I understand that correctly?"

Craig... never mind our opposing fundamental opinion on the subject, is there anything within my posts that is incorrect? You didn't argue any specific point of either of my posts, are YOU suggesting that we ruin the lives of a good kid who screws up once? There are a lot of good parents here with good kids. One mistake(as good as the parents are, they can't be there all the time) and the kid should rot away in jail, then be stuck with a record that will hinder them for the rest of their lives? I don't think there's enough McDonald's on the planet to employ every teen who does something stupid. If McDonald's hires criminals.

No matter your opinion on the subject, the facts are pretty straight forward. I believe that I have given the caveat that there are some doomed children out there. Doomed wether they go to jail for 2 or 10 years. When it comes to laws which will SEVERELY affect the future of our youth, we should be careful not to take away the ability for good kids who make 1 mistake to actually rehabilitate and live productive lives.
A responsible criminal system should have the goal of rehabilitation, not revenge.

Again, is there anything in my posts that isn't accurate?


Jackie, admittedly you didn't read every post. It should be brought to your attention that despite public opinion that crime rates are up, in fact it is the opposite that is true. Crime is down.

I hate to say it but crime will always happen no matter the consequences. Are we out to ensure that everyone who commits a crime not only has to serve a prison sentence but has their entire lives ruined for it? Where is the opportunity for rehabilitation in that? I'll assume that everyone who argues against this has NEVER made a mistake.(even if you were lucky enough to not have been caught.)

EyelashExtensions
09-29-2008, 09:07 AM
I wasn't saying not send them to jail....just sending them for longer periods of time don't do them any good. I know many teens who have been punished and sent to jail for longer periods of time then adults. Adults barely get punished for the majority of crimes people are referring to. B&E....they might get 30 days, shoplifting....maybe community service unless the are a repeat shoplifter they might get 30 days(probably weekends). Assault...unless absolutely brutal probably community service and maybe some jail time if this isn't the first offense. That's for adults. I just don't believe sending them to jail for longer periods of time will do any good at all. Parents need to be able to have more control. At 16 a child can walk out of the house and cause havoc on the community and a parent can do nothing at all about it. CAS focuses more on younger children, and a lot of the times there are no options for them to help either. There is a parent relief program where parents can send their unruly kids for a lot of discipline and rules, but it is usually ineffective. Kids come back with the same or worse attitude then they had before. Unless they have probation after a jail sentence there's nothing in place to give them the tools to lead productive lives. I'm pretty sure not a 100% that almost all the programs in place in the jails are by choice, teens don't have to take them if they don't want to unless court ordered. So no therapy, or anything for that matter. Not many choices for parents or teens when it comes to drug rehab either.

Craig Huckerby
09-29-2008, 09:10 AM
No Crowell, I see your point and from my knowledge there's nothing inaccurate from what you posted. But let's say a kid under 18 years old commits murder - should we say, "hey, you're a kid - you don't know any better - you should be given a second chance and not be treated as an adult would be" I think the victim's family and society would have trouble with that.

The 6th Member Of AC/DC
09-29-2008, 09:11 AM
I still say that the vast majority of these adults that break the law learned to do so at an early age. I don't think most of these adult offenders wake up one day and decide to wreak havoc....

EyelashExtensions
09-29-2008, 09:11 AM
People can't just expect to throw a kid in jail and have them rehabilitated, solved all their problems, off drugs and coming out angels, because it won't happen.

EyelashExtensions
09-29-2008, 09:17 AM
Craig, when it comes to more serious crimes then I'm all for stiff punishment. I'm also for publishing their names, hopefully they will spend the rest of their lives behind bars. But really, even adults that murder in this country get away with light sentences(some cases).

Craig Huckerby
09-29-2008, 09:30 AM
It's the more serious crimes I was referring to. I agree though even adults don't get what's coming to them in that regard. The Youth Justice Act needs major improvements before I say it's a worthwhile piece of legislation.

SusyQ
09-29-2008, 09:34 AM
I'm sick of hearing about the parents and it being their fault that the teen turned out rotten. It's not like that in ALL cases. The child can come from a loving home BUT meet the wrong crowd and BAMM they change into a totally differant kid.

Guest
09-29-2008, 10:21 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: SusyQ</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I'm sick of hearing about the parents and it being their fault that the teen turned out rotten. It's not like that in ALL cases. The child can come from a loving home BUT meet the wrong crowd and BAMM they change into a totally differant kid. </div></div>The parents should still be responsible for the actions of their children. They aren't legally adults until they're 18.

Guest
09-29-2008, 10:25 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: CrowellPhotographs</div><div class="ubbcode-body">are YOU suggesting that we ruin the lives of a good kid who screws up once? There are a lot of good parents here with good kids. One mistake(as good as the parents are, they can't be there all the time) and the kid should rot away in jail, then be stuck with a record that will hinder them for the rest of their lives? </div></div>I would think that most would agree that it's the issues with repeat offenders that's the main issue at hand, and that is the main area where the YJA is useless as it is.

CrowellPhotographs
09-29-2008, 10:42 AM
I'm starting to understand your ideas about the YCJA Craig.
I'm in complete agreement with you on serious crimes like murder. That said, there is option within the YCJA for a youth above 14 to be tried as an adult for crimes such as murder, attempted murder, manslaughter, aggravated sexual assault or multiple serious crimes. I believe that the problem is at the judiciary level. The option to treat a minor harshly for such crimes is there, if the judge doesn't pursue those options it's not the fault of the legislation.

GRUMPY
09-29-2008, 03:24 PM
Well what the hell do you expect, the kid comes home from school sits down and turns on the TV to watch stuff on the FTA. So why wouldn't they get confused about stealing, or is it only just something thats ok for adults to do.

aussie_angel24
09-29-2008, 09:47 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lizzardskills</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I don't think that would change anything, because the teen isn't going to think about the consequences of their name published, they already aren't thinking of the consequences. The crime will already be committed so there is nothing the parent can do about their name being published. Publishing a child's name just leaves them open to be teased by their peers(making a situation worse), allows access to their names and addresses open to pedophiles, leaves a parent helpless at protecting their child from an abusive parent(if that be the case). It does no good other than informing the public. A lot of good teens have a mishap and don't ever break the law again. If it is a very serious crime I could see the need to publish names but not for the majority of them. </div></div>

So they should be humiliated!!! The problem with the young ones doing it is they do not get what they should be getting just a little slap on thw wrist then 2 weeks later you see they have done it again!!! Their name should be plastered for all to see then maybe they will not do it again and as for the parents they should be too for the lack of parenting and controlling!

EyelashExtensions
09-30-2008, 10:08 AM
I'm sick of hearing about the parents and it being their fault that the teen turned out rotten. It's not like that in ALL cases. The child can come from a loving home BUT meet the wrong crowd and BAMM they change into a totally differant kid.

Very true, thats why there needs to be more options for parents who have lost control, because they don't have many resources now as it is. If a parent can regain control and have more options to deal with troubled teens they might be able to prevent them from turning to crime.

cassiechadwick
09-30-2008, 11:10 AM
the problem is a number of things combined.

Here's a good starting point IMO

Change education criteria. make it fun to learn so kids want to be at school. sure the basics need to be taught but my kids can remember every word to most songs they enjoy but then tell me they can't memorize a poem. (they memorized it though, after we put it to music!) also the courses they offer now just don't jive with the times.

and

the government needs to look for ways to put one parent back in the home!
ie: shorter work week, higher income tax deduction for stay-at-home spouse with children, etc.

and

the y.o.a. needs to be written by a group of parents representing all walks of life, with the help of some professionals in the child psychology field and judges in the youth criminal field.