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Misschix
12-01-2008, 09:54 AM
So here is my dilema...

I have a 3 year old girl...and when she does something wrong we put her in time out...She screams all bloody hell and pees herself....she gets so worked up...hyperventilating ...she doesnt even last 1 minute in time out...

Now we cant spank her,.,,obviously cant put her in time out....i dont know what to do ...
She has been potty trained since she was about 1 1/2....and this peeing herself has just started recently.....now that she is being punished for her actions...

Any advice would be greatly appreciated

EyelashExtensions
12-01-2008, 09:58 AM
Take things away,maybe.

EyelashExtensions
12-01-2008, 09:59 AM
Or is she doing this because she knows she'll get out of time out...

Peety
12-01-2008, 09:59 AM
The corner or time out does not work on mine ,
I have been putting her in her room for short spells,
There are no toys in the bedroom,,

CrowellPhotographs
12-01-2008, 10:05 AM
Admittedly not a parent, but an uncle to many and have seen a lot of reactions to time out. I think that lizzardskills is right that she knows it will get her out of time out. I've seen my nephew pee around the house to get attention when everyone is fawning over his younger brother.
A quick change and return to time out might work. There's only so much room in the bladder. I think that doing this without talking or giving any more attention than necessary would also help.

Kids will keep doing what works.

hp2
12-01-2008, 10:06 AM
GOOD LUCK thats all Ill say..

Misschix
12-01-2008, 10:08 AM
oh yeah she screams to no avail....it is insane how nuts she gets when she is put in time out....sometimes she screams so bad that she gets sick....I dont know what the heck is wrong with her,...

EyelashExtensions
12-01-2008, 10:10 AM
Admittedly not a parent, but an uncle to many and have seen a lot of reactions to time out. I think that lizzardskills is right that she knows it will get her out of time out. I've seen my nephew pee around the house to get attention when everyone is fawning over his younger brother.
A quick change and return to time out might work. There's only so much room in the bladder. I think that doing this without talking or giving any more attention than necessary would also help.

Kids will keep doing what works.



Very good idea about returning her to time out. Never thought of that. Very good idea!

I wouldn't let her get away with it personally, that's just teaching her that that's acceptable behavior. IMO

Peety
12-01-2008, 10:11 AM
oh yeah she screams to no avail....it is insane how nuts she gets when she is put in time out....sometimes she screams so bad that she gets sick....I dont know what the heck is wrong with her,...

She is 3,,,
I have one and she growls when she is mad,

CrowellPhotographs
12-01-2008, 10:12 AM
She is 3,,,
I have one and she growls when she is mad,

ha ha ha ha ha!!! cute the first time?

Sweet Little Sister
12-01-2008, 10:14 AM
what is she doing to get a time out?
make the punishment fit the crime so to speak..time out might not work with every behaviour.
for example..i only use time out when the kids are getting physical with each other (pushing, biting, hitting etc) i tell them that they have to be away from the other kids until they can be calm and everyone will be safe.
if not sharing or fighting over toys is an issue then we talk about sharing and taking turns and being friends if it continues the toy goes away and nobody gets it


consistency is a major factor in your success. if you waver you're dead. you have to say what you mean and mean what you say.
expect a huge fuss over a change in discipline. they will scream and cry like you're killing them until they get used to it..but you have to be consistent and not give in AT ALL.

EyelashExtensions
12-01-2008, 10:15 AM
mine growls too, barks, meows lol. When she's mad she gives you the evil glance.

Chixy, I think this is a power struggle and she's winning by you letting her get out of the time out. She isn't being hurt in anyway, I would stick to it and do as crowell suggested, clean her up and return her to time out. Ignore her fit because that's what it is. Talk to her when she's finished her time out about her behavior.

Sweet Little Sister
12-01-2008, 10:16 AM
lol.. mine used to growl too.

now she stomps and says i don't love her..

Peety
12-01-2008, 10:18 AM
mine growls too, barks, meows lol. When she's mad she gives you the evil glance.

Chixy, I think this is a power struggle and she's winning by you letting her get out of the time out. She isn't being hurt in anyway, I would stick to it and do as crowell suggested, clean her up and return her to time out. Ignore her fit because that's what it is. Talk to her when she's finished her time out about her behavior.

I would do the same thing,,

Sweet Little Sister
12-01-2008, 10:20 AM
i wouldn't even clean her up..let her sit in pee pee pants and see how long she likes that.
everytime you acknoweldge negative behaviour while shes in time out you are reinforcing it! if you don't come right away..she thinks she hasn't screamed/cried/peed/puked hard enough yet..and she'll keep doing it harder/louderuntil you come because you have taughter that that is what works.

Misschix
12-01-2008, 10:21 AM
Oh the 6 year old tells us we only love her brother and sister ......nobody loves her...

Well the 3 year old likes to colour on my walls...get into my make up ....steal snacks...but what does she do....she laughs in your face...she ignores you to...Try to get her to clean up toys.....ive thrown out 3 garbage bags of toys if they dont clean up ....they dont care......]

ive taken away all crayon and markers...no play doh, no tv....time outs....it is crazy

My MIL says that we shouldnt let her cry ...so now the kids are on a break form going to grandmas house until we get this time out thing settled,...

CrowellPhotographs
12-01-2008, 10:23 AM
mine growls too, barks, meows lol. When she's mad she gives you the evil glance.

Chixy, I think this is a power struggle and she's winning by you letting her get out of the time out. She isn't being hurt in anyway, I would stick to it and do as crowell suggested, clean her up and return her to time out. Ignore her fit because that's what it is. Talk to her when she's finished her time out about her behavior.

I agree with Lizzardskills again, talking it out after (once she's calm) would probably be the most important part. I've seen my cousin first insist on a sincere apology as well. Her being calm first would be the crucial part of the formula. Then start explaining.

Misschix
12-01-2008, 10:24 AM
oh yeah....we talk about it...we sit....if she hurt someone she must give them a hug and say sorry....

Babzz
12-01-2008, 10:25 AM
Or is she doing this because she knows she'll get out of time out...

this is what i was thinking too

EyelashExtensions
12-01-2008, 10:25 AM
Oh the 6 year old tells us we only love her brother and sister ......nobody loves her...

Well the 3 year old likes to colour on my walls...get into my make up ....steal snacks...but what does she do....she laughs in your face...she ignores you to...Try to get her to clean up toys.....ive thrown out 3 garbage bags of toys if they dont clean up ....they dont care......]

ive taken away all crayon and markers...no play doh, no tv....time outs....it is crazy

My MIL says that we shouldnt let her cry ...so now the kids are on a break form going to grandmas house until we get this time out thing settled,...


Your MIL isn't her parent, you aren't making her cry, she is doing it to herself.

Sweet Little Sister
12-01-2008, 10:26 AM
i would have only taken the crayons/markers away from the offender..let her see the other kids colouring so that it sinks in that crayons are for paper and if she writes on the walls she loses them

make-up..grrr my oldest was horrible for that. i ended up buying her some stuff of her own and moved mine so she couldn't reach it

if don't clean up, you don't get to play

what do you do when she laughs in your face or ignores you?


lol..don't listen to your mil

Dragonfly
12-01-2008, 10:29 AM
mine growls too, barks, meows lol. When she's mad she gives you the evil glance.

Chixy, I think this is a power struggle and she's winning by you letting her get out of the time out. She isn't being hurt in anyway, I would stick to it and do as crowell suggested, clean her up and return her to time out. Ignore her fit because that's what it is. Talk to her when she's finished her time out about her behavior.

I completely agree. If she knows you'll let her win she will keep doing it. Unless shes hurting herself, it wont hurt to leave her. Honestly I wouldnt clean her up until its time to get her out, makes her less likely to want to pee herself and sit in it.

CrowellPhotographs
12-01-2008, 10:31 AM
The fact that you get such a reaction from time out means it's working. The more passionate the response the more potential the punishment has to work. (if done well)
Once time out is established as a "no-escape" punishment, just the threat will get her to stop what she's doing.
I've also read that for time out to work, you do need to give a warning first if possible. If not possible, or the behavior is that bad (or something she ought to know by now) straight to time-out.
I think that leaving her in pee is NOT the right way to go. Changing her without saying a word will still get the message across that she's in time out by not giving her the attention she needs. Once changed, march her right back to time out. (again, not a word)

I'd also guess that the "you don't love me" is a great way for her to get you to say "I love you very much"(aka: attention) Ignore ignore ignore. Positive reinforcement when you are getting good behavior.

MIL can say anything she wants, doesn't make it right. YOU are the parent. Unfortunately an option is that if MIL doesn't want to follow YOUR lead, maybe she shouldn't get visits without you there.

Babzz
12-01-2008, 10:32 AM
Its a "me" world for a three year old.. They are selfish little people.. cute as they are ;)
They will try there best to get control over what they want in the only way they know how too..
Screaming will work for them, if you let it.
I know its hard, but try to ingnore it and in time it will disappear when they figure out it will not work :)
It will get a little worse before it gets better but worth it.. trust me ;)
good luck

EyelashExtensions
12-01-2008, 10:36 AM
My daughter is very stubborn too, refuses to clean her room. So now I sit in her room while she cleans it. Reward system does not work for her, she'll just say she doesn't care and doesn't want the reward(no matter how great the reward). Really she rarely misbehaves anymore to the point of timeout. Only when she has friends over and she won't share or take things from her friends. My nieces used to get into stuff ALL the time! They eventually grew out of it. My daughter has been brought up(so far) that if it isn't hers don't touch it, plain and simple. It works for me, but I don't think that will work for you.

bluekrissyspikes
12-01-2008, 10:56 AM
oh yeah she screams to no avail....it is insane how nuts she gets when she is put in time out....sometimes she screams so bad that she gets sick....I dont know what the heck is wrong with her,...

there's nothing wrong with her. she is manipulating you by screaming and peeing herself. be consistant. she'll get over it. if she pees, then she has a timeout in pee pants. if she's screaming and screaming then don't start counting her time out until she stops. it's harder on you than it is on her i'll bet. i had a hard time with mine on time out too. he started punching himself in the face when i put him on time out. the first few times i hugged him and stuff cause he did it. he stopped doing it now cause i just say 'well don't hit yourself if you don't want a booboo...' It is hard for them to adjust to new things, especially if she just started getting time outs recently, because she hasn't figured out the point of them yet.

hopbugy
12-01-2008, 10:58 AM
she s only 3
when are u going to be in charge
let her scream in time out in her wet pants
they misbehave because u let them
try watching Super Nanny

now im sorry if that the harsh truth

Jackie B
12-01-2008, 10:58 AM
Put her right in the shower with her clothes on, and hose her off. Then, matter of a factly tell her this is what has to be done when she pees herself with her clothes on. I doubt you'll have to do it more than once or twice. Be sure to put her back in the timeout chair after you get her dressed back up with some dry clothes.

NewCasa
12-01-2008, 11:00 AM
I know this may sound bad in this day and age of political correctness, but I've raised a couple of kids and the two things I think are most important is to teach them that there are consequences to their actions and to respect others. So, if she's peeing she gets to wear a diaper and if she pees on time out she has to wait for a change till time out is up. And if she's screaming then she gets extra time. I would suggest that her time out starts only after her tantrum is done. At three it might take a little to get that through to her, but she'll get it.

And by the way, you haven't said how much time time out is (or I missed that). Childcare people suggest one minute past their age, so in this case 4 minutes. Much of my input on childraising came from childcare workers and from a child psychologist I used to know quite well. One example of her advice was to remove the food from a child who is not eating and do not feed them between meals till they begin eating properly at meals. Sounds like tough love, but it's all about making kids realize there are consequences.

Finally, I'd like to say that misbehaviour is misbehaviour and when a child does this sort of thing during punishment then this activity should be punished too.

Misschix
12-01-2008, 11:02 AM
Oh trust me ...it doesnt hurt my feelings when she is in time out...Im pretty well very strict with my kids...
I was just curious as to why she would be peeing herself...my oldest never did that ..

Remember a few months back whre i started the thread cause my kids yelled so much that my neighbour threatned to call the police...
Well When my daughter screams in her time out....you can hear her outside...new windows and all doors closed....so iimagine the tantrums she has...

I was just curious as to if anyone else had children who screamed so bad in punishment that they pee themselves and make themselves sick...

As for my MIL she is the most amazing women ever...she just cant stand to hear my kids cry it breaks her heart...we are slowly working on her...so as for now until i get my middle child to stop peeing herself...MIL cant be around when we punish ....LOL

Chaotic Chick
12-01-2008, 11:04 AM
I have a daughter who would force herself to throw up, and pee herself if put on a time out, or sent to her room. I got some advice from a child therapist, and he told me to stand my ground, clean her up, and send her back to her time out. Before she started seeing him, I just let her get out of the time outs. Who wants a puking, peeing kid? Not to mention the screaming at the top of her lungs that pissed my neighbours off! Well, I did what he asked me to do and within a couple of weeks, all we got from her was a lot of pouting but she would take her time out without screaming, or doing anything nasty.

I went through a different level of defiance with each kid when I gave them time outs; hers was the worst. It sucks, and to a kid a couple of minutes on time out seems like forever lol. For me, after I got through the nastiness she dealt out while on time outs, it worked well though. :) I got advice from a MIL as well... she told me to smack her. I told her she needed a smack herself for even suggesting it lol.

Misschix
12-01-2008, 11:06 AM
See it is weird..my oldest child i was VERY strict with and both sides of her family are very strict with her....so when i say jump generally she says how high...

Now my two youngest for some reason are lttle terrors....dont worry ill tame them too lol

KRP
12-01-2008, 11:20 AM
My 3 yr old son used to scream bloody murder, throw himself around, try to grab anything he could to throw. So when he did something that he needed a time out I would put him on his time out chair, kneel in front of him, explain why he was put on time out, how long he was going to be on time out for and when his time out was done I would come back and talk to him. The first few times he kept getting off time out and I'd take him, put him back on time out and explain that every time he would get off time out his time out started over. He'd still continue to scream bloody murder but I'd ignore it and keep myself busy with his younger sister. He'd go on time out for 3 min. and when it was done I'd go over, sit beside him and explain why he was on time out, give him a hug and kiss and tell him that I love him and that if he doesn't want to be back on his time out chair then don't do..... (what he was put on time out for). Took a few weeks to get the screaming to stop and the constantly getting off and being put back on bit under control but it worked.

He knows that he gets his warning, I ask him to stop doing something and give him to the count of 3 to stop. If I get to 3 then he goes on time out, normally he stops as I'm saying 2 because he doesn't want to go on time out.

CrowellPhotographs
12-01-2008, 11:25 AM
I think a great point was raised that the time should start once they're quite.

dancingqueen
12-01-2008, 12:07 PM
Put her right in the shower with her clothes on, and hose her off. Then, matter of a factly tell her this is what has to be done when she pees herself with her clothes on.

I'm not even going to get into the psychological ramifications of doing this... My God.

I would agree with Sweet Little Sister. Let her continue her timeout in peed or not peed in pants. Taking her to change her would reinforce this behavior. When she pees herself in timeout, she is looking for some attention. When you pick her up, or take her to get changed talking to her or not she is getting some attention and just like a bad kid who gets negative attention does not care what kind of attention they get. They will take what they can get so to speak.
Letting her sit in soiled pants for 5-10 minutes is not harmful to her in any way and is thus not a cause for concern. She will scream all bloody hell once she is not getting what she wants and has gotten in the past (attention) and this attention seeking behavior will morph into a power struggle, do not give in to her and she will learn.

goodasgold
12-01-2008, 12:43 PM
My daughter will be three at the end of the month. She doesn't get time outs much, but when she does, they are done in her room. This way she is away from others and will calm down. She has been potty trained since late January and within the last month decided to start peeing her pants. Never when we're out doing errands, but at home. Her excuse "I forgot where the bathroom was." Her punishment, sitting against the wall in her wet pants. She doesn't like it and that's the point. After a bit, she gets washed and put right into her pjs. It took a bit of time, but seems to have clicked in. Now if I could get her to stop demanding things, that would be nice. She is much more dramatic then her older brothers ever were.

Verotik
12-01-2008, 01:14 PM
So here is my dilema...

I have a 3 year old girl...and when she does something wrong we put her in time out...She screams all bloody hell and pees herself....she gets so worked up...hyperventilating ...she doesnt even last 1 minute in time out...

Now we cant spank her,.,,obviously cant put her in time out....i dont know what to do ...
She has been potty trained since she was about 1 1/2....and this peeing herself has just started recently.....now that she is being punished for her actions...

Any advice would be greatly appreciated

with our 2 and 3 years olds we use time out, but we also take away things, you advise that doing this will mean you dont get a treat at snacktime, or no movie, or no story at bedtime etc.

Also you might present them with 2 choices, and let them choose, you do this means you go to time out, you do this and we play together etc..

MaO3
12-01-2008, 01:58 PM
So here is my dilema...


Now we cant spank her,.,,obviously cant put her in time out....i dont know what to do ...



This line right here says it all Chixy. She knows full well that by peeing her pants you let her out of time out.
She is controlling the discipline not you.

I say that if she goes into time out then she stays in time out until her time is done. I also agree with the idea of waiting to start her time until she stops screaming. Of course you will need to explain that to her.
By letting her out of time out you are giving her the control.

Your the parent, you set the rules and your the one who needs to make her abide by them. If you tell her 4 minutes in time out, then she needs to stay 4 minutes in time out. I also think at the end of time out she needs to be talked to about the infraction and an appology should be issued.

Kids need to know that there are consequences to thier actions and that they will be held accountable for those actions. Just my opinion of course.

b&aMom
12-01-2008, 03:20 PM
Holy smokes! Three, and she's out of control? And you "can't" spank her?

I'm sorry, I know this time out thing is big, but I've been raising two kids, and I've smacked their butts with my open hand probably less than 5 times each, and never had a problem past about age 4. By that time they figured I was serious when I said no, or made rules, never had time out. Now, at 13 and 10, they're good as gold (but certainly not perfect). They are respectful and courteous, but still plain old kids. A few swats on the butt never hurt anyone, but it gets their attention. And there's no time out time involved where they get to dwell on how to manipulate you. Swat, and it's over. Their only choice at that point is did I like that or not.

bluekrissyspikes
12-01-2008, 03:34 PM
she is probably worried someone will call cas on her. what a pain that would be to go through over a lil spank on the butt

Macs II
12-01-2008, 03:59 PM
kids need to be trained like police dogs ...same goes for women ......I could set any kid straight in few days :)

Huggy85
12-01-2008, 04:22 PM
kids need to be trained like police dogs ...same goes for women ......I could set any kid straight in few days :)

This should get some interesting responses. LOL

iluvchristian
12-01-2008, 04:30 PM
So basically, what everyone is saying, be consistent. Time out doesn't begin until sitting quietly. Whether or not you want her to sit in soiled clothes is up to you. If you change her, THEN start the timeout after she's clean again, you may need to do alot of laundry, LOL! My son just before he turned 3, had a complete turn around with his attitude (for the worse) So timeouts have been quite a challenge, but over the weeks it is getting easier. One thing I recommend HIGHLY...use a timer!!! The stove, an alarlm clock, you can get the portable magnetic timer from dollerama. This way there is no disputing when time out is done.

As for the hurricane your daughter seems to have become (mess making) as my mom says, "this too shall pass" My middle daughter was good for getting into everything. Now at least she cleans up after herself (mostly)

What we do for crafts is :
1)constant supervision 2) only give 2 crayons/markers/paint brushes at a time. No more til the other ones are put away. 3)LOCK UP EVERYTHING when we are done LOL!

Good luck and have patience!!

kitca
12-01-2008, 06:03 PM
our dear daughter really played the power struggle game with us. we used the "1-2-3 Magic" book and video and it worked wonders. you can get it at the library, the video is very entertaining as well as informational (is that a word?).

when she was doing something she wasnt supposed to we counted 1....2..........3. then it was a time out. we had a timer in the room and it was one minute for each year, so 3 years 3 minutes. she had to sit quiet and if she didnt when the bell rang she had to sit again for another 3 minutes. of course she balked this and some days spent more time in the time out chair than anything else. at first she had to learn how it worked and thats when we had the most fighting back. but, it didnt take too long and she got it, then we only had to start counting and she would correct her behaviour.

i was told that kids like to know their boundaries and they like consistancy: they want to know that if they do something: this will happen. and it is their job as a child to test these boundaries and learn about cause/effect, conciquences (bad sp?). and for us to have the mindset that it is a stage that she must go through and it is her job and she is doing her job very well.

and she did! some days she would strut over to something she wasnt supposed to do and touch it then put her hands on her hips and look at us just waiting for the punishment. she would strut her little body over to the chair and when the bell went off she would head right back to the thing she couldnt do, and do it all over again! BUT, she did learn and the lessons really lasted and was very worth it. i thank god for that book and video!

Lollypop
12-02-2008, 09:36 AM
When my kids were little, I didn't use time out as much as taking away things. They were raised knowing that for every action there is a reaction. Sometimes good sometimes bad.
My son was around 3 when he coloured on the door, I gave him a rag and a pail of warm water, told him to start scrubbing. I knew the crayon would not come off with plain water, but I wanted to show him this is what happens....
When he was 5 and my daughter 8 they would fight over who would sit beside daddy at supper time. I would make them take turns and when they would argue over whos chair it was, I told them your name isen't on it so that makes it everyones. The next day my son proudly showed me that the chair belonged to him as he had written his name across the back of it, pleased as punch he was. That I had to chuckle over.
My grand daughter is now 18 months and likes to throw temper tantrums, as she lays on the floor kicking her legs, I remind her to also thrash her arms about and don't forget to bang her head. While I am doing the motions she giggles and the tantrum is over.
What I have learned over the years is that there is no quick and easy solution, each child is different and your own little guinea pig.

vixen
12-02-2008, 11:53 AM
i just ask them "Whats my name"? they are 5 and 3 I make the rules!

kitty&mimi
12-02-2008, 11:56 AM
mine is 3 and she's SLOWLY learning right now
i never thought i'd see the day where i can take her downstairs and she sits quietly playing with play doh and markers without the TV on and im on the treadmill for 30min
never thought i'd see the day......
patience is what we need :)
as for disciplining....i use time out or i take away something, works for me...

Super Gram
12-02-2008, 03:35 PM
What works for 2 child does not nesisarily work for another. When a child is stuborn and you give in that is not good. Be consistent in whatever you do.

tasma
12-02-2008, 06:06 PM
I was going to say the same thing, watch Super Nanny. I don't watch those shows but i watched it when she was helping this widow with her 3 wild kids and she put the young boy about 4 in the time out and the kid cried, screamed, kicked and hit his mother, ran out of the house and super nanny kept telling the mother to put him back in the corner till he stopped and they timed it it was over an hour of it before he finally stopped and said sorry. If she pees change her, get her to clean it up and put her back and explain to her why she is staying there and put a timer on so she can see it so she knows how much time she has left and explain what she has to do after she is done in time out. Whether apologize or clean something that she drew on the wall or what ever it is. Do time out everytime and don't make a joke out of "cute" things.

givememore
12-02-2008, 06:09 PM
You can send her to my house for a couple days!! My friends kids are "afraid" of me because I am stern. They threaten them with "chrissy bootcamp". Either way, stay firm and good luck!