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Chako
01-22-2009, 06:04 AM
Found this today and thought it might be of interest to a few in here.

http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20090121-how-canadian-isps-throttle-the-internet.html

V Code
01-22-2009, 07:06 AM
well if shaw is they sure aint @ 7am, im full speed right now and peaked at 2MB/s

:)

Andre
01-22-2009, 09:11 AM
If and how much you're throttled depends on where you live. Not all shaw is throttled. When bell started it was mostly densely populated areas and the sault wasn't throttled at all(at least I wasn't. haven't checked lately).
From what I've read it's mostly only shaw upload speeds that are throttle for torrents.

One thing that is starting to get people is that the new streaming flash video's from place like cnn, yahoo, and google use a type of p2p software. So if you are throttled it's is starting to effect streaming video now.

On another note. The CRTC needs to be gutted and totally restructured.
The people running the CRTC are all former presidents, vp's, and management of the big telcos.
Not exactly the people who should be policing them!

Miles From Nowhere
01-22-2009, 11:14 AM
I know I'm throttled in Sudbury on the Bell network. P2P bandwidth is about 35 Kb/s from 4:30 - 2 a.m.

Konig-OV
01-22-2009, 11:20 AM
You also can't download faster than what is being sent to you.

If someone is sending to you at 35 Kb/s, then that is all you can receive at.

\m/ Rich \m/
01-22-2009, 11:27 AM
No, Miles is right, im in the same boat. I can watch my b/w drop from its full 520k/sec right down to 35-50k - then soon as 2am hits, speeds are right back up.

Nihilistic Heathen
01-22-2009, 04:09 PM
If and how much you're throttled depends on where you live. Not all shaw is throttled. When bell started it was mostly densely populated areas and the sault wasn't throttled at all(at least I wasn't. haven't checked lately).
From what I've read it's mostly only shaw upload speeds that are throttle for torrents.

One thing that is starting to get people is that the new streaming flash video's from place like cnn, yahoo, and google use a type of p2p software. So if you are throttled it's is starting to effect streaming video now.

On another note. The CRTC needs to be gutted and totally restructured.
The people running the CRTC are all former presidents, vp's, and management of the big telcos.
Not exactly the people who should be policing them!

When Bell/Sympatico started throttleing p2p bandwidth it affected their whole consumer base, not just densely populated areas or even just Sympatico consumers. It was happening in the Sault as early as Nov. 2007, I know this because I was a Sympatico customer.

Hans
01-22-2009, 04:24 PM
For me, it seems port 1723 is not affected by throttling. I could be wrong.

Andre
01-22-2009, 04:58 PM
Nihilistic Heathen
I'm with teksavvy and they didn't start throttling them until March or April 2008. I still wasn't throttle though and neither was another guy I know using primus through bell. Still not using MLPPP.

Hans
01-24-2009, 03:18 PM
Is that the same teksavvy that stated last year they would never throttle?

Andre
01-24-2009, 03:20 PM
Yep and they still don't.

403_forbidden
01-24-2009, 08:46 PM
I posted this over at another thread, but since this is about NET throttling, I will post it here. Some of you may already know about this, but you can get around Bell's Throttling by using this firmware:

http://fixppp.org/

This is provided you have a compatible router that runs Tomato (WRT54G (depends of version), WRT54GL). The developers over at DD-WRT have MLPPP support in their roadmap for version 25:

http://www.dd-wrt.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=31363

One of the developers say they are going to support 4 lines etc. DD-WRT supports more router models (more than the WRT series from Linksys), so more people will be able to implement MLPPP on supported devices....

Andre
01-25-2009, 08:59 AM
As far as I know, Guspaz's fix not work on Bell. Teksavvy is the only ISP I know of that(unofficially) supports MLPPP.

Gimic
01-25-2009, 01:14 PM
Teksavvy is throttling, just not in the sault maybe. I know that up in the region of Terrace Bay, On to Thunder Bay, On they are throttling cause my speeds drop after 6pm and don't come back up till 2am.

Shawn
01-25-2009, 03:45 PM
Teksavvy is throttling, just not in the sault maybe. I know that up in the region of Terrace Bay, On to Thunder Bay, On they are throttling cause my speeds drop after 6pm and don't come back up till 2am.

Bell is the one doing the throttling... basically it is done before the data leaves bells network and comes to the reseller isp's... Its happening to every ISP that uses Bell's GAS service. Our simple solution to the problem is we started putting our own equipment into the bell co's a few years back before this even became an issue. Only a couple of cities have been done so far, but we are doing ADSL2+ connections, across our own fibre.

Teksavvy them selves are not doing any throttling but the deep packet inspection does happen before it gets to them. MLPPP apparently is one of the ways to get around it, but like I said, your isp must support it.

tired-n-cranky
01-25-2009, 04:09 PM
Teksavvy is throttling, just not in the sault maybe. I know that up in the region of Terrace Bay, On to Thunder Bay, On they are throttling cause my speeds drop after 6pm and don't come back up till 2am.

Not Teksavvy, Bell is. And the only speed you would see drop is torrent traffic.

\m/ Rich \m/
01-26-2009, 07:09 AM
So Shawn, are you saying Vianet is not affected by throttling?

tired-n-cranky
01-26-2009, 02:30 PM
So Shawn, are you saying Vianet is not affected by throttling?

If you happen to be lucky enough to live in a city where they have put in their own gear, near one of the CO's they have done it, then they wouldn't be.

However, if your line is on a remote , not direct to the CO, the line would be affected, since there is no colocating for remotes.

\m/ Rich \m/
01-26-2009, 04:29 PM
throttling and bandwidth restrictions are pretty big dealbreakers for me when choosing an isp.

Shawn
01-26-2009, 09:19 PM
throttling and bandwidth restrictions are pretty big dealbreakers for me when choosing an isp.

Hey I have been trying to get them to put colo equipment here for the last 2 years, but it does not look like its going to happen any time soon... but ya on our own equipment the way Vianet looks at the bandwidth issue is if there is not enough add more basically. We usually have double the bandwidth we need. A lot of the time this is done not only to be scalable but also for network redundency, that way if a primary link fails the backup can handle the entire load with room to spare.

Just to give you an idea, a lot of the major companies in town that need nearly 100% uptime have connections with us. These companies I am talking about have direct connections into us, but when Bell or Shaw are down... well they are still up and running. Colo dsl is just a nice extention of that because it provides nearly the same uptime as business service. Manjority of the problems come from last mile, like the phone or cable lines...

403_forbidden
01-26-2009, 11:10 PM
As far as I know, Guspaz's fix not work on Bell. Teksavvy is the only ISP I know of that(unofficially) supports MLPPP.

I think it depends where you are. Like I mentioned in the other thread, a buddy of mine is using the MLPPP tomato build and a Linksys WRT54GL router. He is in Guelph on BELL Sympatico. When he loads the regular edition of Tomato on his WRT54GL he gets very slow downloads on torrents, when he loads the MLPPP Tomato edition his Torrent downloads increase in speed.....by a lot....

Cruel_Intentions
01-27-2009, 09:11 AM
I am with teksavvy in the sault and can confirm that they are BEING throttled. I haven't looked into methods to bypass it because for my torrents it doesn't really matter if it's done today or tomorrow as they are usually not time critical downloads. Kinda sucks because I choose teksavvy for two reasons. One being they would not throttle, and the other being because their tech support is all based out of southern ontario. I would rather spend my money on a ISP that employees as many Canadians as possible instead of farming it out to other countries.

tired-n-cranky
01-27-2009, 10:38 AM
Ok.. ALL ADSL providers in Ontario/Quebec who do not use their own equipment are being throttled by Bell.

Teksavvy, vianet, Execulink, and the other 100+ providers.

1337
01-31-2009, 06:12 PM
It would be easier just ot name the proviers that have their own equipmen.

Hans
01-31-2009, 06:17 PM
I believe it's just the start. I have seen the internet change from an open free state to a more closed less free state.

Andre
01-31-2009, 06:44 PM
That's true Hans
and the reason why small ISP's such as Teksavvy are growing.
They have increased from 20,000 users when I joined more than a year ago to 40,000+(not sure of BC and AB stats).
25% of those where cable users and 75% former adsl users.
This is a company that not only disagrees with current ISP policy, but fights it openly and supports work a rounds so that the end users are not affected.
Compliancy with network activity has gone unchallenged by internet users simply because they don't care(does not effect me) or ignorance.
Now all of a sudden people are noticing they are being over charged, throttled, or there internet tubes are slowing down and starting to ask questions.
Notice you never see those Bell commercials with musicians hooking up and playing anymore. Never see those Shaw commercial stating unlimited bandwith.
You pay for internet, but it's up to the ISP just how much you can have.

Hans
01-31-2009, 07:12 PM
I am talking about the internet in generally. I was on the internet when win 3.1 was the latest brand new version of windows. I have seen it change from a free and open medium to a restrictive protected medium.

Andre
01-31-2009, 07:38 PM
Norton Commander and then Window 3.1

Hans
01-31-2009, 07:41 PM
What was that dos program called again that allowed you to switch between 2 running programs? Ah, good times. lol

\m/ Rich \m/
02-01-2009, 09:40 AM
Hey I have been trying to get them to put colo equipment here for the last 2 years, but it does not look like its going to happen any time soon... but ya on our own equipment the way Vianet looks at the bandwidth issue is if there is not enough add more basically. We usually have double the bandwidth we need. A lot of the time this is done not only to be scalable but also for network redundency, that way if a primary link fails the backup can handle the entire load with room to spare.

Just to give you an idea, a lot of the major companies in town that need nearly 100% uptime have connections with us. These companies I am talking about have direct connections into us, but when Bell or Shaw are down... well they are still up and running. Colo dsl is just a nice extention of that because it provides nearly the same uptime as business service. Manjority of the problems come from last mile, like the phone or cable lines...


..dont care about businesses or uptime. the odd flubs are to be expected. i want fast internet with noone telling me what i can or cant do with the bandwidth i pay for.

I average about a terabyte u/d combined over 2- 2 1/2 months, not that its anyone's business - but **** it, i pay for it (dearly) and im tired of being ****ed around.

Konig-OV
02-03-2009, 11:51 AM
What do you think these companies are going to do once they hit their peak on bandwidth? They will start limiting it as well. Every company offers unlimited bandwidth, untill they start peaking. Once any company gets about 70% of the bandwidth they will start limiting. They aren't going to offer unlimited bandwidth, so some bonehead can download 500 movies a month, and cause speed issues with others.

Shawn
02-03-2009, 12:28 PM
What do you think these companies are going to do once they hit their peak on bandwidth? They will start limiting it as well. Every company offers unlimited bandwidth, untill they start peaking. Once any company gets about 70% of the bandwidth they will start limiting. They aren't going to offer unlimited bandwidth, so some bonehead can download 500 movies a month, and cause speed issues with others.

That's some companies mentality... Ours is to just get more bandwidth...

tired-n-cranky
02-03-2009, 01:44 PM
What do you think these companies are going to do once they hit their peak on bandwidth? They will start limiting it as well. Every company offers unlimited bandwidth, untill they start peaking. Once any company gets about 70% of the bandwidth they will start limiting. They aren't going to offer unlimited bandwidth, so some bonehead can download 500 movies a month, and cause speed issues with others.

Wow, wanna make a bet on that?

Hans
02-03-2009, 05:25 PM
One guy should make no difference in overall speeds. I think it's a lot of guys. It would be nice if they somehow changed the P2P protocol to include the use of http proxy servers. I remember the use a proxy for large downloads was a blessing back in the time when I was on a 28.8 connection, as the proxy would cache the file allowing me my full 28.8.

Shawn
02-03-2009, 11:53 PM
One guy should make no difference in overall speeds. I think it's a lot of guys. It would be nice if they somehow changed the P2P protocol to include the use of http proxy servers. I remember the use a proxy for large downloads was a blessing back in the time when I was on a 28.8 connection, as the proxy would cache the file allowing me my full 28.8.

Well the one thing that might help out the P2P front is P4P, which involves the isp. If they move to this it would allow the isp to give people what they want but also move traffic in directions where they have room instead of just all over the place.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proactive_network_Provider_Participation_for_P2P

403_forbidden
02-04-2009, 08:26 PM
Norton Commander and then Window 3.1

haaaaa The good old Windows 3.1 days.....I used Pine for text based Email, trumpet for a TCP/IP stack, and ProComm plus to dial into those bulletin boards...to get ummm drivers:) .....no throttling back than...LOLOLOLO