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BlueSky
03-04-2009, 08:09 AM
http://www.nationalpost.com/news/story.html?id=1351216



A Canadian who demanded courtesy from a U.S. border security guard says he was pepper sprayed and held in custody for three hours for asking the disrespectful officer to "say please" when ordering him to turn his car off during a search.
"I refused to turn off the car until he said please. He didn't. And he has the gun, I guess, so he sprayed me," said Desiderio Fortunato, a Coquitlam, B.C., resident who frequently crosses the border to visit his second home in the state of Washington. "Is that illegal in the United States, asking an officer to be polite?"

dancingqueen
03-04-2009, 09:32 AM
no, but refusing to do what they say is I believe. this dork should have listened to the police officer. He could have done much worse

Strife
03-04-2009, 09:37 AM
The id10t deserved it. When someone in authority asks you to do something, you do it no questions asked. Customs officers are required to protect the border, not be polite and courteous.

italiandomino
03-04-2009, 10:03 AM
Did the guy think that Border officers are in the Customer SErvice field ??? He deserved to be peppered spray, that will teach him to tell someone how to behave

BlueSky
03-04-2009, 10:08 AM
Man, you guys are hard.. judging by your attitudes, you ought to all be right wing conservatives redneck gun totin bubbas.

So you think pepper spray was reasonable force, huh?

The Berean
03-04-2009, 10:14 AM
They enjoy being arrogant.

dancingqueen
03-04-2009, 10:16 AM
maybe not reasonable. But was it reasonable for this dork to hold up everyone else because he wanted to go on a mission to make a customs officer say please?
The police officer needs to present an attitude of confidence and authority. as a child If I pulled this with my dad he would have kicked my but right up through my nose. The person was creating a power struggle. the officer needed to exercise their authority.
lesson learned?
Do what the police say

or when police tell people who are say robbing a bank to drop their weapons and put their hands up are these robbers justified in saying "I didn't hear you say please"
I hope you don't think so...

gouligann
03-04-2009, 10:35 AM
I think the guy was wrong asking the border guard to say please, but I also think pepper spray was an accessive act. (unless there's more to this story on the guy's behaviour)

Border guards are there to protect borders, yes, but they should also be screened for personallities when applying for the job. An ego-seeking person with a nasty attitude, who is volitile in touchy situations shouldn't get hired. On the other hand, a meek person without any air of authority shouldn't be hired either.
There are some real A$$holes at the border, and I must say that I think they are mainly on the US side. I think the guards on our side treat people better, in general.

b&aMom
03-04-2009, 11:47 AM
Usually you get what you give. Do people have bad days? Sure. So instead of demanding a please, maybe this person should have said, "You betcha'.", with a smile, and shut the car off. I'm sure that wouldn't have ended in pepper spray, but instead the person seemed to just want to win a power struggle, which complicated the border officer's duties. I'm sure that ticked him off.

Timbit
03-04-2009, 11:53 AM
I am with the border guard in defending his position of authority, but like it was said, without both sides, it is hard to judge. The pepper spray was probably a little excessive, unless the guard felt threatend in anyway, which would give him the right to defend

Strife
03-04-2009, 11:54 AM
Man, you guys are hard.. judging by your attitudes, you ought to all be right wing conservatives redneck gun totin bubbas.

So you think pepper spray was reasonable force, huh?

Actually no I'm not. The best firearm I have fired was a paintball gun and I dont even know if that is considered a firearm. This incident is similar to the taser incident except the guy was injured and not killed. Maybe the pepper spray was a little too much force, but next time the guy decides to be the mom of customs officers, he will think twice and close his eyes.

Dragonfly
03-04-2009, 01:44 PM
lol i dont agree with peppering the guy maybe turning him around. but the guy IS a moron. Ever go across our border? I dont drive but i could wet my seat if I had to talk to one let alone get smart they look so ominous.

Jackie B
03-04-2009, 03:42 PM
Uh, anyone who lips off to a customs officer, who has more authority than police do, is just asking for it. I don't care how cocky the guard is, I say "yes sir, no sir, three bags full sir..."

The pepper spray might be a bit much, but the guy had to see it coming. This guy must be a bird brain, demanding manners from a customs officer. Pullease...

Tutones
03-04-2009, 05:46 PM
"I refused to turn off the car until he said please. He didn't."

The article doesn't mention how long the border guard waited before spraying the guy. I would guess that the 'idiot' stared him down for a minute or more before getting what he deserved. It's not like the border guard is going to fold and say 'please'. It's his job to be authoritative, not polite.

Upper Decker
03-04-2009, 05:54 PM
When the government fear the people, there is freedom. When the people fear the government its tyranny.

NewCasa
03-04-2009, 05:58 PM
Man, you guys are hard.. judging by your attitudes, you ought to all be right wing conservatives redneck gun totin bubbas.

So you think pepper spray was reasonable force, huh?


Should've hit him with a taser!

BlueSky
03-04-2009, 06:02 PM
No kidding!

dancingqueen
03-04-2009, 08:11 PM
When the government fear the people, there is freedom. When the people fear the government its tyranny.

We are not talking about the government, we are talking about a guy cocking off to a police officer.
If this where a kid robbing a place and the police did this there would be no question about whether this was right or wrong.
Police, including customs face danger every day that is not evident. Their lives are at risk for your protection. Do what they say when they say and there will be no problems.
The guy had a chip on his shoulder and was trying to take it out on the customs officer who was doing his job. Yes pepper spray was a little excessive technically speaking, but the guy deserved it realistically.

Krysta
03-04-2009, 08:36 PM
Personally I don't think he needed to be pepper sprayed but I would deny him access and forced him to turn around.

I don't believe at all they should have to say Please or Thank-you to anyone it really isn't customer service and they are not at all there to make your day better.
By all means if that officer did say please this would indicate that the moron would then have the upperhand in which he doesn't.
Although It was totally un called for to assault someone because they stared you down demanding a please?
There has to be more to it atleast I would hope so.

GRUMPY
03-04-2009, 08:49 PM
Hell I would have peppered him and once he came up for air I'd send him in for a body cavity search and made sure it was done by the guy with the biggest hands.

NewCasa
03-04-2009, 08:52 PM
Hell I would have peppered him and once he came up for air I'd send him in for a body cavity search and made sure it was done by the guy with the biggest hands.

And THEN said thank you?

GRUMPY
03-04-2009, 08:58 PM
no something more like "You all come back again"

1337
03-04-2009, 09:01 PM
"Is that illegal in the United States, asking an officer to be polite?"

The guy shut the car off and waited for the officer to say Please. The is demanding not asking.

That guy should've been beaten like an out of line 15 year old girl!

The Berean
03-04-2009, 09:25 PM
"Once, he said, he asked a Canadian border agent to be more polite when requesting documents, to which the agent responded with a sheepish "please." "

Naturally. Canadians are much more polite.

NewCasa
03-04-2009, 09:27 PM
"Is that illegal in the United States, asking an officer to be polite?"

The guy shut the car off and waited for the officer to say Please. The is demanding not asking.

That guy should've been beaten like an out of line 15 year old girl!

You believe in beating 15 year old girls? Hmmm....didn't I see an article on that recently?

H.E. Pennypacker
03-04-2009, 09:40 PM
did you also know they are supposed to say welcome to the united states every time you pull up to the border? I only know of one guy that does it at our border.

1337
03-04-2009, 09:45 PM
You believe in beating 15 year old girls? Hmmm....didn't I see an article on that recently?

*sigh* typical soonetters.

Please, cut and paste where I believe in beating 15 year old girls.

If you got ANYTHING out of my last post, it would be that he should be beaten like a OUT OF LINE 15 YEAR OLD GIRL.

Lets start a "twist your words thread"

It'll be a hit, because everyone knows how to play!

1337
03-04-2009, 09:49 PM
did you also know they are supposed to say welcome to the united states every time you pull up to the border? I only know of one guy that does it at our border.


I honestly get this everytime. Except when they had the crack down on 9/11. But I understood because they were busy.

These squeeky wheels that say "So and so was rude here" are probably getting treated rudely because they demand and have the customers always right attitude. Or just plain rude themselves.

I've seen first hand where a lady goes up to the counter at Tims and says "I want a large black with 1 sweetner, last time you put sugar in it I will not stand for it again" <-- as rude as rude can be!!!! Then the lady at Tim hortons was kinda rude back and said, don't worry you won't get any sugar in it. Customer turns and says "Well isn't she rude".

KDawg
03-04-2009, 09:54 PM
"Is that illegal in the United States, asking an officer to be polite?"

The guy shut the car off and waited for the officer to say Please. The is demanding not asking.

That guy should've been beaten like an out of line 15 year old girl!


The id10t deserved it. When someone in authority asks you to do something, you do it no questions asked. Customs officers are required to protect the border, not be polite and courteous.


Did the guy think that Border officers are in the Customer SErvice field ??? He deserved to be peppered spray, that will teach him to tell someone how to behave

You guys make excellent boot-licking slaves.

1337
03-04-2009, 10:00 PM
No, you guys make arrogant idiots.

You don't demand respect from someone. If you do, then you should be showing that officer respect. That officer does not have to let you across, which means it is your PRIVILEGE, not right!

This is the problem with you guys, you think everything is your RIGHT and demand it!

Just like people on GA, think they deserve the world!

1337
03-04-2009, 10:02 PM
Next your going to tell me that the soldiers in Afghanistan are going to have to say "Please hand over (insert terrorist name here)" or "Please Mr. Terrorist, stop bombing people".

Whats the difference you ask? How is the border patrol going to know any different?

Just do what they ask, Mr. High and Mighty. Doesn't hurt to be nice to people.

Pleiades
03-04-2009, 11:24 PM
Some people do have a right to cross the border and it's not a priviledge. Some people have no borders between Canada and the United States. However, the people who do cross can expect some officers to be idiots. Many customs officers are and I don't stand for it. I cross being polite, but if there's rudeness, then I get rude back, I have zero tolerance for rudeness whether they're an officer or not. If an officer tells me to do something that is out of line,then, NO, I do not, sorry, I challenge them all the way. But that's just me. I'm not a puppet who will voluntarily say, oh yes ma'am or yes sir if they are being idiots just because they wear a uniform.

NewCasa
03-04-2009, 11:37 PM
That guy should've been beaten like an out of line 15 year old girl!

Enough said?

Strife
03-04-2009, 11:42 PM
Some people do have a right to cross the border and it's not a priviledge. Some people have no borders between Canada and the United States. However, the people who do cross can expect some officers to be idiots. Many customs officers are and I don't stand for it. I cross being polite, but if there's rudeness, then I get rude back, I have zero tolerance for rudeness whether they're an officer or not. If an officer tells me to do something that is out of line,then, NO, I do not, sorry, I challenge them all the way. But that's just me. I'm not a puppet who will voluntarily say, oh yes ma'am or yes sir if they are being idiots just because they wear a uniform.

Your right. Some people do have the right to cross the border but the customs officer has the right to interogate you and ask almost everything of you. Asking to shut off your engine is not out of line and a pretty reasonable request.

GRUMPY
03-04-2009, 11:47 PM
very true some people go out of their way to piss off others and then cry like a baby when they get what they deserve.

NewCasa
03-04-2009, 11:59 PM
very true some people go out of their way to piss off others and then cry like a baby when they get what they deserve.

got anyone in particular in mind?

gouligann
03-05-2009, 06:52 AM
Some people do have a right to cross the border and it's not a priviledge. Some people have no borders between Canada and the United States. However, the people who do cross can expect some officers to be idiots. Many customs officers are and I don't stand for it. I cross being polite, but if there's rudeness, then I get rude back, I have zero tolerance for rudeness whether they're an officer or not. If an officer tells me to do something that is out of line,then, NO, I do not, sorry, I challenge them all the way. But that's just me. I'm not a puppet who will voluntarily say, oh yes ma'am or yes sir if they are being idiots just because they wear a uniform.

I agree with your first two sentences.

As for the rest of your post, some day you might be told to turn around and don't bother coming back to the US of A. They have every right to deny entry if they don't like your attitude.

When I run into an A$$hole at the border, I stay calm, bite my tongue, I don't lip back and I am soon on my way. I dislike having to do this with a rude person, but that's the way it is at the border. I enjoy my shopping and occasional holidays in the US so I suck it up.

I would lip back to a cop, but not a border guard.

BlueSky
03-05-2009, 07:10 AM
I also don't mess with border guards. I am unaware of the US legal system, and I hear so many horror stories, that I figure it aint worth the risk. This pepper spray story is a good illustration of that. I think the border guard was an immature and insecure idiot who used the pepper spray, but so was the dude that got sprayed.

mags
03-05-2009, 07:47 AM
The pepper spray was excessive with these facts. The BC mans actions were at fault. Who knows what went on before he refused to turn his car off, until a demanded please was said. As much as border guards can have bad attitudes, delusions of superiority any one who crosses the border knows you must do as they say or ask you to do. This must be done without attitude, smart aleck behaviour by the person crossing.

UrbanChic
03-05-2009, 04:17 PM
In my opinion, this guy was pushing his luck and should have expected some action against him, although the pepper spray was probably a little excessive. According to the article, he should have known that his stance wouldn't be taken lightly, since he'd done the same thing at the US Border before:


By his own admission, Mr. Fortunato is a stickler for courtesy and respect. The Portuguese native, who has lived in B.C. for 25 years and has owned his second home in Washington for three, pulled a similar stunt at the same border crossing about one year ago. In that case, he was ordered to wait hours to be questioned before being allowed to cross.

SSMguy2009
03-05-2009, 04:29 PM
He got what he deserved plain and simple. Perhaps maybe a pistol whip would have been more approriate.

italiandomino
03-05-2009, 10:48 PM
And he did this in the past .. I guess some ppl just never learn. Next time I hope they do us a favour and shoot him

KDawg
03-05-2009, 11:25 PM
And he did this in the past .. I guess some ppl just never learn. Next time I hope they do us a favour and shoot him

... and I received a warning for calling you an idiot.

The 6th Member Of AC/DC
03-05-2009, 11:26 PM
Dont be hatin....

dancingqueen
03-06-2009, 01:58 AM
I guess Border Control is now a customer service position?
Should they be given empathy training? Perhaps some training on irate customers:
"I understand how you feel Sir
We find that many other people feel the same way at first
What we have found is that if you could please open your trunk for us we could verify for the safety of our country that you do not have anything dangerous or alien to the united states of America"
gimme a break.... don't be an ass, and people will not have to reciprocate.

Fyre
03-06-2009, 03:52 AM
Lmao and believe me, some of the American Border Officers give Americans a hard time crossing back into the US. I got lectured about two years ago (which was well before all the new documentation regulations came down) for not having my birth certificate in addition to my NY State Drivers license with me after leaving a "foreign country" as he so eloquently put it to me. I just stared blankly at him and he went on to annoy my Canadian passenger for a while before ultimately letting us both in.

GRUMPY
03-06-2009, 06:23 AM
Saw a good one at our crossing the yesterday, this dipsy broad at the American side had to have switched into and out of every lane on top trying to get to the customs faster and totally irritating everyone in the process. I imagine she also irritated the customs guy to because when she finally got to the front and was the next one to go through he turned the light red from green she sat there for what seemed to be at least 10 minutes till we passed her and were on our way, for all I know she could still be there. One good thing about it it seemed to put the custom officers in a real good mood as they were all grinning from ear to ear.

italiandomino
03-06-2009, 08:24 AM
... and I received a warning for calling you an idiot.


and you should, smarten up, personal attacks are so childish

BFLPE
03-06-2009, 06:23 PM
ha ha Say Please

My god, what an idiot. For some reason I figure this was said in a soft voice with a lisp.

KDawg
03-06-2009, 07:18 PM
and you should, smarten up, personal attacks are so childish

True enough. What would you call someone who calls for the death of a motorist because they get lippy with a border guard?

italiandomino
03-06-2009, 07:51 PM
True enough. What would you call someone who calls for the death of a motorist because they get lippy with a border guard?

a good citizen :)

1337
03-06-2009, 08:10 PM
I concur, atleast they aren't being childish.