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View Full Version : Another broken promise......



sahara
03-29-2009, 01:12 AM
the minimum wage is set to go up March 31, 2009 to $9.50 and another increase of $0.75 is due March 31, 2010.
but now, McGuinty is saying that next years wage increase may not happen.
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20090327.wminimum0327/BNStory/National/home?cid=al_gam_mostview

Slow
03-29-2009, 09:13 AM
In these economic times, I don't think this is very surprising.

Once minimum wage hits a certain level, it begins to be its own worst enemy. How does a small employer deal with rising minimum wage requirements from government? They simply hire less people. Thus, at a certain level (and Canada must be very near it) minimum wage hurts those it aims to help.

sahara
03-29-2009, 06:10 PM
I do understand your POV concerning small business owners. However I have to say that I do believe that the minimum wage is a poverty wage. A job should keep you out of poverty, not in it.

Upper Decker
03-29-2009, 06:36 PM
to quote chris rock " minimum wage means your employer dont give a **** about you, and is only paying you that much money for your time cause the law is forcing you to"

dancingqueen
03-29-2009, 06:39 PM
If I understood the Sault Star from Friday correctly it said this was the first time minimum wage has left the poverty lines since the 70's.... that is pretty sad that it took two recessions to change this....

KDawg
03-29-2009, 06:40 PM
Paying someone minimum wage is the employer telling you, "If I could pay you less, I would.";)

Having said that, businesses are obliged to pay what the job is worth, and what employees are willing to put up with. They are not obliged to keep you out of poverty -- that's your problem. I'm not saying that businesses are entitled to take advantage of their workers ala Chinese slave labour, but that's why we have unions and labour laws.

All costs are eventually passed on to the consumer, so are you willing to pay $6 for a loaf of bread, or $8 for a hamburger? Not only could businesses be forced to employ less people, but those who remain employed at the higher minimum wage are paying more for goods. How is this helping anyone?

It really boils down to simple supply and demand.

sahara
03-29-2009, 06:59 PM
Paying someone minimum wage is the employer telling you, "If I could pay you less, I would.";)

Having said that, businesses are obliged to pay what the job is worth, and what employees are willing to put up with. They are not obliged to keep you out of poverty -- that's your problem. I'm not saying that businesses are entitled to take advantage of their workers ala Chinese slave labour, but that's why we have unions.

All costs are eventually passed on to the consumer, so are you willing to pay $6 for a loaf of bread, or $8 hamburger? Not only could businesses be forced to employ less people, but those who remain employed at the higher minimum wage are paying more for goods. How is this helping anyone?

It really boils down to simple supply and demand.


Now we're talking unions...... okay. Where was I when they were hiring at GM? At the CAMI plant in Ingersol, the starting wage for an employee on the factory floor is $35 an hour, (you don't have to be a rocket scientist to work there) then factor in their bonuses, paid holidays, scheduled paid holidays, dental and health benefits, etc, etc, and that is worth $75 an hour.
Now, let's take for example, an employee who has been there a number of years, shows up for work drunk, and the company fires them, but enter in the union, who in turn fights for this employee and gets their job back......... gotta love the union. We have unions to protect the rights of employees....... yes, even the alcoholic employees.

The unions are trouble......... that's why the taxpayer is on the hook for the bailout of the auto industry.

Edtited to add:
And it's okay to consolidate the GST & PST together, to add another 8% to almost everything (certain exemptions however) but no increase to wages??

NewCasa
03-30-2009, 07:23 AM
to quote chris rock " minimum wage means your employer dont give a **** about you, and is only paying you that much money for your time cause the law is forcing you to"

When was the last time you walked into a small business and said 'I think I should pay more than this to keep your family out of poverty'?

Didn't think so.

Slow
03-30-2009, 10:40 AM
to quote chris rock " minimum wage means your employer dont give a **** about you, and is only paying you that much money for your time cause the law is forcing you to"

And Chris Rock is part of the problem.

'It's someone else's responsibility to keep me out of poverty'.

NewCasa
03-30-2009, 10:42 AM
And Chris Rock is part of the problem.

'It's someone else's responsibility to keep me out of poverty'.

Slow and I agree?

Nooooooo!!!!!

Slow
03-30-2009, 10:59 AM
It's called intellectual maturity.

Don't fight it. :)





(that's a joke, for those of you that look to be offended at every turn)

Konig-OV
03-30-2009, 11:02 AM
To me, minimum wage is perfect for highschool students saving up for college/university, or their first car, or what ever it is teens want to buy. If you are any older, working for minimum wage, then it is your fault, and your's alone. Why should the government set higher minimum wage to keep people out of poverty? They are not responsible for your misfortunes or bad decisions in life.

NewCasa
03-30-2009, 11:51 AM
It's called intellectual maturity.

Don't fight it. :)





(that's a joke, for those of you that look to be offended at every turn)

Well, I'll try not to let it happen too often. I prefer my own brand of intellectual maturity - yours scares me.



(and that's a joke too, for those of you .......)

gizmoguy
03-30-2009, 12:00 PM
I know I'mm going to incur the hate, but here goes...

Anyone making minimum wage might be well served to remember that right now...

- alot of unionized employees are being asked to make concessions and so they are making less today than they did a year ago.
- anyone working in a sales-based or commission-based position is feeling the pinch of everyone cutting back on spending, so they are making less today than they did a year ago
- virtually anyone with profit-shares won't receive what they did in the past, so they are making less today than they did a year ago.
- a large percentage of anyone making above minimum wage in the private sector is in a wage freeze position, and while they won't be making less than they did a year ago, they won't be making any more.
- likewise, a large chunk of government employees right now are also under a wage freeze and while they won't be making less than they did a year ago, they also won't be making any more.

So in short, almost everyone is making less than they did a year ago, or is making the same. Almost no-one is making more than they did a year ago. Let me emphasise that that... Almost no-one is making more than they did a year ago, most of us are making less.

I know minimum wage kind of sucks, but at least you are in the demographic that is making the same and not less.

Also remember that we've actually been seeing deflation in many of the base sectors, so take stock of the price of a lot of goods and services that you buy and you will find that costs are actually down from a year ago thanks to the costs of fuel and retailers trying to increase sales. Take this into account and those managing on the same wages have been given a bit of a break that way.




And it's okay to consolidate the GST & PST together, to add another 8% to almost everything (certain exemptions however) but no increase to wages??

And c'mon the harmonized tax is NOT adding 8% to almost everything!

That 8% is already on virtually everything you buy, so no difference in cost.

The notable exemptions under the current PST (children's clothes, diapers, feminine products, books) are all still in place under the harmonzed tax, so no difference in price.

There will be a FEW items where the harmonized tax will be a 'new tax' but they apply mostly to home sales (specifically those houses way out of reach of most buyers and certainly not available in our local market) and (admittedly) heating, (However if someone does not have the financial resources to handle the extra $100 to $200 per year that this will const, methinkjs that maybe they are perhaps living beyond their means in other areas or are in a house way outside of their affordability)

Oh and I haven't even taken into account that we're all getting an extra rebate to help offset the costs if there are any.

Slow
03-30-2009, 12:46 PM
Well, I'll try not to let it happen too often. I prefer my own brand of intellectual maturity - yours scares me.



(and that's a joke too, for those of you .......)

"Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery"

Barry Morris
03-30-2009, 02:36 PM
In these economic times, I don't think this is very surprising.

Once minimum wage hits a certain level, it begins to be its own worst enemy. How does a small employer deal with rising minimum wage requirements from government? They simply hire less people. Thus, at a certain level (and Canada must be very near it) minimum wage hurts those it aims to help.

We don't have that many illegal aliens to work for us.

Slow
03-30-2009, 02:51 PM
We don't have that many illegal aliens to work for us.

I know ;)

NewCasa
03-30-2009, 04:40 PM
"Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery"

Yeah ain't I sweet?

sahara
03-31-2009, 06:15 AM
And c'mon the harmonized tax is NOT adding 8% to almost everything!

That 8% is already on virtually everything you buy, so no difference in cost.

The notable exemptions under the current PST (children's clothes, diapers, feminine products, books) are all still in place under the harmonzed tax, so no difference in price.

There will be a FEW items where the harmonized tax will be a 'new tax' but they apply mostly to home sales (specifically those houses way out of reach of most buyers and certainly not available in our local market) and (admittedly) heating, (However if someone does not have the financial resources to handle the extra $100 to $200 per year that this will const, methinkjs that maybe they are perhaps living beyond their means in other areas or are in a house way outside of their affordability)

Oh and I haven't even taken into account that we're all getting an extra rebate to help offset the costs if there are any.

http://www.citynews.ca/news/news_33244.aspx
So what will cost you more and what won't by Canada Day of 2010?

Here's a partial list:

Newspapers;
Magazines under subscription;
Taxi, bus, airplane and train fares;
Gasoline, diesel fuel and propane;
Residential electricity, natural gas and firewood;
Campground site fees;
Home Internet services;
Certain residential Energy Star appliances;
Vitamins;
Gym and fitness memberships;
Bicycles (and related safety equipment) costing less than $1,000;
Accounting and legal services;
Certain financial services fees;
Construction labour including home building and renovation labour;
Car towing services;
Grass cutting and snow removal services; and
Real Christmas trees purchased in December
Courtesy: Cdn. Taxpayers' Federation

Some items will remain exempt from additional taxation. Those include:

Basic groceries such as flour, sugar, spices, breads, cheese, fruits, vegetables and milk;
Prepared foods sold by an eating establishment for $4 or less;
Children's clothing, diapers or footwear costing $30 or less;
Drugs and medicine sold under a doctor's prescription;
Dry cleaning, carpet and upholstery cleaning and hairstyling, barbering and beauty treatments;
Car washing or engine shampooing
New homes under $400,000 are also off the PST list.

McGuinty says minimum wage will go ahead as planned after all. http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20090330.wminimum0330/BNStory/National/home

Increasing the minimum wage is part of Breaking the Cycle: Ontario's
Poverty Reduction Strategy (http://www.growingstronger.ca/english/default.asp), which will reduce thenumber of children living in poverty by 25 per cent over 5 years - lifting
90,000 kids out of poverty - by boosting benefits for low-income families and
enhancing publicly-funded education.

http://www.newswire.ca/en/releases/archive/March2009/30/c5465.html

BlueSky
03-31-2009, 07:41 AM
McGuinty: I was wrong
As storm erupts, premier does another about-face and drops threat to break minimum wage promise.

http://www.thestar.com/article/610869

This guy is unbelievable!

Huggy85
03-31-2009, 07:52 AM
McGuinty: I was wrong
As storm erupts, premier does another about-face and drops threat to break minimum wage promise.

http://www.thestar.com/article/610869

This guy is unbelievable!

I just don't get it. He gets slammed by people for suggesting he might drop the minimum wage increase then he gets slammed again when he reconsiders and decides to go ahead with it.

Madmax
03-31-2009, 08:20 AM
Its about time the minimum wage is increased as when i was younger = 16 years old (i am 38 years this year) many wanted it increased at that time.

Poverty will still be here in this country even with the minimum wagre at $9.50 now and next year to $10.25. Reason for this is the products we buy have increased in price and they will continue a rise even next year. So basically the minimum wage increase(s) will only help out to compensate for the higher rise in inflation costs for businesses.

Who pays for the increase = The businesses do = Tax Payer
Who wins/gains = No one

BlueSky
03-31-2009, 09:07 AM
I just don't get it. He gets slammed by people for suggesting he might drop the minimum wage increase then he gets slammed again when he reconsiders and decides to go ahead with it.

As long as he doesn't get slammed by the same people.

I, for one, am opposed to increasing minimum wage during this crisis. I did not slam him for suggesting that we postpone hiking it next year. I thought it was a very prudent idea, seeing as many small businesses are going to be on the ropes this year and next. I would rather see the min wage earner keep his job than lose it because the employer cannot afford him anymore.