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Pleiades
04-20-2009, 11:57 PM
I personally think if DJ's want to post their add in "Musician Central" they should seriously think about posting in employment wanted, because DJ's are not musicians and they are the cause of "Musicians" not having as many gigs and or lower paying gigs.

ByrdDawg
04-21-2009, 01:56 AM
You have a point. I don't know how the DJ section got in this forum.

I know it wasn't my idea and the other moderator doesn't seem to know either.

spinmonkey42
04-21-2009, 03:23 AM
Well, the section was here so I used it, after I saw someone else use it. I for one promote live music every chance I get. I also work hard to get some decent bands here once in awhile. As far as DJs not being musicians? Sure, some just pop a disc in and hit play, but think about guys like Moby. I would definately call him a musician. There's a little bit of an art to remixing music. Some guys do it great live. I've seen some musicians look at my decks and be totally perplexed at how they work and the stuff they do.

fenderbass
04-21-2009, 07:22 AM
It wasn't my idea for the DJ section to be added, I have nothing against DJ's they do weddings and I hate playing weddings, to hard to please the crowd.
DJ's play music and this is the music section so they stay here for now.

ByrdDawg
04-21-2009, 12:21 PM
I agree that there are DJ's that can be more entertaining than some live bands. That makes them entertainers not musicians.

Musicians are entertainers but they are not DJ's

You would probably need a 6 to 10 piece band to be able to cover all the stuff requested at a big wedding these days and no one can commit to the time and effort required to put it together in this town.

I suppose we could change the name to "Entertainment Central" and then we could get magicians, jugglers and sword swallowers in here too.

someguy
04-21-2009, 03:02 PM
If it was changed to Entertainment Section would it be okay if strippers and call girls advertised:wink:

Jack Butler
04-21-2009, 08:56 PM
Gearheadjay has it right about weddings, BUT.....
I blame DJs for the dreaded Carry any ole key.
I am old enough to have seen great rock bars turn into discotheques or at least dance clubs!
Somethings I can't forgive or forget.
Someone else's idea of what is good music, will make me puke in my mouth sometimes!

Hey Mr DJ
04-23-2009, 02:52 PM
I personally think if DJ's want to post their add in "Musician Central" they should seriously think about posting in employment wanted, because DJ's are not musicians and they are the cause of "Musicians" not having as many gigs and or lower paying gigs.


There are different types of disc jockeys. Some just play music from one song to another with very minimal effort via a a laptop or mixing board. They also usually play the exact same same play list over and over again from one place to another. They don't charge as much because all they are doing is just playing music and making sure there is no dead space. They can program and walk away. These are not musicians.

Then there are ones that actually know how to manipulate the music they play by changing their speed, looping, extending, mixing, etc. They play with vinyl on turn tables or use CD decks that have vinyl emulators and digital mixing effects. These DJ's are the ones that you should be looking for if you are looking for a non stop dance experience, they usually play in dance clubs and most of them have their own unique way of remixing. I consider them to be musicians because they actually make an honest effort into changing the music and making it sound different everytime.

Then you have the ones that create their own music and do official dance remixes of other artists and spit out ten different versions of one song. These are professional DJ's that are very well established and are ofcourse considered to be musicians, like Moby, Tiesto, William Orbit, etc..

There are many in the Soo that fall under the first category. From the second category there are only a few in the soo that actually do this, myself included. Of the third group there are none that I know of locally.

As for what Pleiades said about dj's being the cause of musicians not getting as many gigs and getting less pay, i'd have to disagree with you.
Bands have more than one member and each member wants a fair share so obviously they have to charge more than a DJ, it's the bar owners that are too cheap to hire the bands. It's not a DJ's fault that his / her rate just happens to ber more economical.

fenderbass
04-23-2009, 06:23 PM
.. Admins made the decision to put the DJ,s
here.

Stedmister
04-27-2009, 12:01 AM
I've done all three, I love to creat my own stuff, also have done remixes and edits.

Pleiades
04-28-2009, 08:06 PM
There are different types of disc jockeys. Some just play music from one song to another with very minimal effort via a a laptop or mixing board. They also usually play the exact same same play list over and over again from one place to another. They don't charge as much because all they are doing is just playing music and making sure there is no dead space. They can program and walk away. These are not musicians.

Then there are ones that actually know how to manipulate the music they play by changing their speed, looping, extending, mixing, etc. They play with vinyl on turn tables or use CD decks that have vinyl emulators and digital mixing effects. These DJ's are the ones that you should be looking for if you are looking for a non stop dance experience, they usually play in dance clubs and most of them have their own unique way of remixing. I consider them to be musicians because they actually make an honest effort into changing the music and making it sound different everytime.

Then you have the ones that create their own music and do official dance remixes of other artists and spit out ten different versions of one song. These are professional DJ's that are very well established and are ofcourse considered to be musicians, like Moby, Tiesto, William Orbit, etc..

There are many in the Soo that fall under the first category. From the second category there are only a few in the soo that actually do this, myself included. Of the third group there are none that I know of locally.

As for what Pleiades said about dj's being the cause of musicians not getting as many gigs and getting less pay, i'd have to disagree with you.
Bands have more than one member and each member wants a fair share so obviously they have to charge more than a DJ, it's the bar owners that are too cheap to hire the bands. It's not a DJ's fault that his / her rate just happens to ber more economical.
Try arguing your point to a panel of hard working musicians. You'd get crucifide. LMAO!!!
Can Moby and all that other garbage compare to John Petrucci, Marty Friedman, Paul Gilbert, Joe Satriani, Steve Vai, Neil Pert, Osca Peterson? etc, etc... lol

P.S. And thank you for solidifying my original statement...

Jack Butler
05-01-2009, 02:01 PM
Pleiades is a sore loser. Why U attacking the DJ's man? You really think bars are gonna hire the same band that plays the same songs everyt ime they perform? People get sick of hearing the same regurgitated crap all the time.

You have never been to the Bars across the river?
You can tell what time it is from the songs being played...regurgitation happens with both.
Pleiades is no loser and nor is any DJ....it's the public that loses and therefore the public is the loser!
Some may disagree, but I have a hard time fitting the Disc Jockey into the Arts!

Anapeg
12-01-2009, 07:45 AM
A musician is a person who performs or writes music. Musicians can be classified by their roles in creating or performing music:

An instrumentalist plays a musical instrument.
A singer (or vocalist) uses his or her voice as an instrument.
Composers, songwriters and arrangers create musical compositions, songs and arrangements. These may be transcribed in music notation, performed or recorded.
A conductor leads a musical ensemble. A conductor can simultaneously act as an instrumentalist in the ensemble.
A recording artist creates recorded music, such as CDs and MP3 files.


There is more, simply google. A DJ is NOT a musician. A DJ makes a living playing the music of real musicians.

GRUMPY
12-01-2009, 09:04 PM
a DJ is just as much a musician as a radio announcer is and that is not at all.

Insanity
12-06-2009, 06:39 PM
Composers, songwriters and arrangers create musical compositions, songs and arrangements. These may be transcribed in music notation, performed or recorded

There is more, simply google. A DJ is NOT a musician. A DJ makes a living playing the music of real musicians.

Correct me if I am wrong here but doesnt a good DJ remix songs to make them unique? I will agree to the extent that most DJ's are not musicians. All they do is spin a vinyl or press play on a CD deck. Others however dedicate alot of time into their profession remixing songs to make them unique. In a sense, they are rearranging tracks or composing their own tracks.

Anapeg
12-06-2009, 07:51 PM
Jackin' around with some artists song makes me an arranger and composer, really? Perhaps you would like to get the people at Websters to reword their meaning of those words?

No matter how nice it sounds, no matter how well it flows it is now and always will be someone else's work you are PLAYING.

Insanity
12-06-2009, 10:01 PM
Jackin' around with some artists song makes me an arranger and composer, really? Perhaps you would like to get the people at Websters to reword their meaning of those words?

No matter how nice it sounds, no matter how well it flows it is now and always will be someone else's work you are PLAYING.

Yes, however if you mixed in your own beats, rearranged the track, it now becomes your artwork. It would be the same as countless other artists that remake songs that were performed by other bands.

Anapeg
12-06-2009, 11:10 PM
Yes, however if you mixed in your own beats, rearranged the track, it now becomes your artwork. It would be the same as countless other artists that remake songs that were performed by other bands.

With your logic I, by adding a couple of brush strokes can make the Mona Lisa my work. Think about it.

Insanity
12-07-2009, 12:08 AM
With your logic I, by adding a couple of brush strokes can make the Mona Lisa my work. Think about it.

I am not just talking about "a couple of brush strokes". Most mixes include a ton of work which take time and expertise to complete and master. "a couple of brush strokes" does not take skill or much time at all. When a track is completely remixed, it becomes that DJ's mix, hence why when songs are remixed, it is labeled <original artist name> - <song name> (<DJ name> remix). For instance; Justin Timberlake - Sexy Back (Insanity remix).

The point I am trying to make is that even though some DJ's dont actually record the music, they use instruments to remix or remaster others artwork.

Anapeg
12-07-2009, 02:11 AM
You seem to have your heart set on being called a musician for playing someone else's music, so be it, you sir ARE a musician.

Insanity
12-07-2009, 04:58 AM
Actually I dont DJ at all. I dont have the skill nor the capacity needed to become a DJ. Heck all I could do is press play on a CD deck and maybe work a sound board. Musicians constantly rework other musicians songs to make them their own. Using your Mona Lisa example, it would be like me copying the painting using my own paints to recreate the same thing.

GRUMPY
12-07-2009, 08:54 AM
the ONLY way that it would be considered your work is if you actually preformed the music with each of the instruments other than that you just arranged it.

Insanity
12-07-2009, 10:39 AM
the ONLY way that it would be considered your work is if you actually preformed the music with each of the instruments other than that you just arranged it.

So Taylor Swift can claim that her songs are her work because someone else wrote the songs and I highly doubt she can sing, play guitar, and bang on the drums all at the same time?

GRUMPY
12-07-2009, 10:52 AM
is it her singing on them and is she paying the wages of the musicians??? recording a new song or covering an older song is in no way anything like somebody remixing someone else's song and then trying to call it their work. So in a nut shell yes she can call them her work. By your way of thinking then I should be able to remix some of the Beatles hits and call it my work and make millions on it. The only way that even would have a chance of flying would be if it was stated that it was the Beatles and that it was a remix by me and I paid them the royalty on it and thats not even going near any of the legalities of it.

Insanity
12-07-2009, 10:58 AM
is it her singing on them and is she paying the wages of the musicians??? recording a new song or covering an older song is in no way anything like somebody remixing someone else's song and then trying to call it their work. So in a nut shell yes she can call them her work.

Covering a song is in a sense like remixing a song. To cover a song, you are taking the lyrics of that song, the sheet music of the instruments involved, and making it your own either by paying a band to do the drums and such while you do the vocals or if you are a band, doing it all yourself. Remixing is similar in the form that you are taking the song, remixing a different beat into it while keeping the same lyrics and basic sound and turning it into something different. The original song is not yours, but what you created by remixing that song, is yours.

So in a nut shell, if covering a song is considered an artists own work, than remixing a song to create something different, but of the same, can also be considered an artists own work.

GRUMPY
12-07-2009, 11:01 AM
So Taylor Swift can claim that her songs are her work because someone else wrote the songs and I highly doubt she can sing, play guitar, and bang on the drums all at the same time?

If you check the disc cover you will see that the song writers have all been given credit for their work and most times the musisians are also acknowledged. If she is a smart girl you will also she her name numerous times on there too, as the recording artist only gets 3% of the money and each time they get mentioned again works out to around another 3%. That is why you see the artists are sometimes down as producer, executive producer and what have you.

Insanity
12-07-2009, 11:02 AM
By your way of thinking then I should be able to remix some of the Beatles hits and call it my work and make millions on it. The only way that even would have a chance of flying would be if it was stated that it was the Beatles and that it was a remix by me and I paid them the royalty on it and thats not even going near any of the legalities of it.

Okay I must have missed where you extended your post so I will rebuttle this part. As stated, many musicians have covered other bands songs. They probably paid royalty on said songs based on the sales of that record. DJ's can most likely do the same if permission from the original artists is there.

GRUMPY
12-07-2009, 11:05 AM
Covering a song is in a sense like remixing a song. To cover a song, you are taking the lyrics of that song, the sheet music of the instruments involved, and making it your own either by paying a band to do the drums and such while you do the vocals or if you are a band, doing it all yourself. Remixing is similar in the form that you are taking the song, remixing a different beat into it while keeping the same lyrics and basic sound and turning it into something different. The original song is not yours, but what you created by remixing that song, is yours.

So in a nut shell, if covering a song is considered an artists own work, than remixing a song to create something different, but of the same, can also be considered an artists own work.

No sense arguing with you as you will always see black as white. The best way to find out is to do a disc of anyone that tickles your fancy and send a copy to the band in question. Be sure to tell them that you'd like them to have a free copy of your work. What are the odds that their attorneys are all over you before you know what hit you.

GRUMPY
12-07-2009, 11:08 AM
DJ's can most likely do the same if permission from the original artists is there.

True enough but then anyone in the world can do whatever they want if the permission is there.

Insanity
12-07-2009, 11:08 AM
No sense arguing with you as you will always see black as white. The best way to find out is to do a disc of anyone that tickles your fancy and send a copy to the band in question. Be sure to tell them that you'd like them to have a free copy of your work. What are the odds that their attorneys are all over you before you know what hit you.

And why do you suppose that artists like Teisto and other DJ's can distribute their work and not get sued?

Jack Butler
12-07-2009, 02:59 PM
And why do you suppose that artists like Teisto and other DJ's can distribute their work and not get sued?

Socan

Barry Morris
01-06-2010, 04:56 PM
a DJ is just as much a musician as a radio announcer is and that is not at all.

Musician here for 46 years.

BS, Grump.

GRUMPY
01-06-2010, 11:38 PM
your right, I think I'll go create some great music as soon as I find that new cd I bought.

Anapeg
01-09-2010, 12:20 AM
Refer to post # 13. That rendition is not mine but the dictionary's. Owning and playing with a record player or mix board or whatever does not allow you to CREATE music. You are simply b astardizing someone else's work.

spinmonkey42
01-10-2010, 06:12 PM
From a lot of the arguments I am seeing, does this mean that "musicians" who cover other people's work (cover band) are not musicians. Wouldn't they also be *******izing someone else's work? They might put their own twist on the song, same as a DJ remixes..but ultimately, it isn't their own work.

I saw Tiesto's name mentioned as well...not all of his work is remixed works of other artists. There are many DJs who create the entire track... record all of the parts, mix and produce the song. Because they aren't an entire band and can't reproduce the song live, they simply play it. Does this mean that DJs like Tiesto are not musicians? Or is there a difference between musician and composer?

Scoff
01-11-2010, 11:58 AM
DJ's play music and this is the music section so they stay here for now.

My iPod plays music too, can I post my iPod questions in Musician Central? ;)

GRUMPY
01-11-2010, 11:59 AM
To me if you play the musical instruments and play the music you are a musician. Otherwise I would be a great musician every time I turned the radio on.

GRUMPY
01-11-2010, 12:01 PM
My iPod plays music too, can I post my iPod questions in Musician Central? ;)

if it bothers you than don't join the thread

Guest
01-15-2010, 06:42 PM
So where would an artist like Weird Al Yankovic fit into this topic?

Jack Butler
01-16-2010, 08:50 AM
Al's good...he plays.
For a DJ to be considered a musician, than his equipment would have to be considered a musical instrument.
That would make Milli Vanilli singers and we all know the truth on that one!
An artist perhaps, a performer definitely, but without an actual musical instrument you are not a musician, IMO.

GRUMPY
01-16-2010, 10:15 AM
I guess if one were to turn on the radio then they could be considered a band.

Barry Morris
01-17-2010, 03:26 PM
Who would you prefer??

A musician who plays a limited selection to please himself.

Of an entertainer, of any type, who pleases his audience??

Insanity is right.

Guest
01-19-2010, 07:04 PM
Al's good...he plays.
For a DJ to be considered a musician, than his equipment would have to be considered a musical instrument.
That would make Milli Vanilli singers and we all know the truth on that one!
An artist perhaps, a performer definitely, but without an actual musical instrument you are not a musician, IMO.So how about DJ's start carrying a kazoo to their gigs with them and use them...would that make things any better?

Jack Butler
01-21-2010, 07:00 AM
So how about DJ's start carrying a kazoo to their gigs with them and use them...would that make things any better?

Well...hard to argue with that...ha, ha!

Oscar_Leroy
01-29-2010, 11:25 PM
Here's my take on this. I am a musician. I have dedicated 10+ years to playing several instruments. To learn the instrument it takes time, dedication, and a lot of patience. Is it really fair to suggest a DJ is a musician because he/she can take the music made by other people and put a spin on it? I would consider a DJ to be an artist if they were actually putting their own spin on the music they play, but ONLY if they used some form of creativity to alter the song in some way.

Also, doing a cover of a song deserves more credit than a DJ remixing a song. Musicians are playing instruments to remake the song, DJs are not. A turntable is not an instrument, neither is a digital studio application in which remixes are often made. The end result may be music but that does not give the DJ the credit of being a musician.

GRUMPY
02-14-2010, 08:58 AM
well put

Scoff
02-25-2010, 11:59 AM
if it bothers you than don't join the thread

?? You dense there old-timer? I'm agreeing with you guys ...

Real musician for ~20 years.

Jack Butler
02-26-2010, 08:42 AM
You dense there old-timer?

Yup...that's an understatement.

Anapeg
03-26-2010, 10:25 PM
I just checked the Musician's Hall of Fame & Museum (http://www.musicianshalloffame.com/) and everyone there got there on their own merit. For the most part they all own record players, c-d players, tape players but they all got elected to the hall through their own writing, singing, playing, what have you. Not a DJ in the crowd, surprised? I'm not.