PDA

View Full Version : High Speed for Rural Areas (Algoma)



Hermit
07-01-2009, 12:26 AM
To the moderators:
Please don't send this thread to "Internet and Networking" where it won't be seen by rural folks on dial-up. We need to be seen on this issue....not buried.

High Speed for Rural Areas (Algoma):
As we all know, it's impossible to get. I live on St. Joes Island and have had no luck getting any company to provide anything but dial-up service. They promise 'coverage in all areas' but when you subscribe they inform you that it's not available in your area (or street).

The government has (or had) promised that all rural areas would have high speed internet availability at a fair price. Neither has happened. The money those companies need is tied up in court battles (Bell Canada etc.).

Our options are:

- Satellite ($1,000 installation & $130 per month)

- Cell (ie Rogers or Telus ) using the USB 'stick'. (no installation charge & $130 per month)

Cell phone service is not available in all areas of Algoma. Even on St. Joes Island, it is sporadic (ie - it'll work in your living room but not in the kitchen - it's that tempermental !). So...the "stick" isn't reliable anywhere in Algoma.

Satellite is costly and cuts out when ever bad weather appears (just like satellite TV).

The speed times seem to be about the same for both. The plans seem to be the same for both ($45 to check your email and nothing else, $65 to surf a few hours per month, $90 to send/receive pics and videos once in a while, $130 to download movies, software, chat live etc.)

If any one, with any ideas, can help get us rural folks get off dial-up and into the high-speed internet world, it would be greatly appreciated.

mboy67
07-01-2009, 12:40 AM
To the moderators:
Please don't send this thread to "Internet and Networking" where it won't be seen by rural folks on dial-up. We need to be seen on this issue....not buried.

To the Members:
What make your thread any more special then anyone else's that it needs to defy our rules. Sorry but we have a section for it and anyone concerned about a topic should be looking in the proper location.

Now for your topic. no company is willing to put in the infrastructure to server a small amount of people. it would take then 20 plus years to recoup the costs. Do you really want to see more tax money spent so you can have this service I don't I'm taxed enough. Sorry move closer if you want faster service.

Andre
07-01-2009, 09:41 AM
This is probably the best place I know of to get info on high speed/satellite.
http://www.dslreports.com/forums/all

Anna Noyance
07-01-2009, 11:30 AM
I have to agree with Hermit about High Speed and leaving the thread in the Soapbox.

First of all, when on dial-up, it is a pain in the butt to go to all the different locations on Soonet looking for information.

Second, I believe talking about dial-up vs high speed is about the same as talking about how Shaw sucks and how Bell sucks. I sure did not see the thread about Shaw being down, moved.

I am also one who whines all the time about dial-up. We are whiners if we want a little more than links posted. I absolutely hate when a link is posted with no description. 99% of the time I don't even go to it. I used to love going to Soonews but now I rarely do because it takes forever for the page to load. On a good day, I get 32 kbps.

The internet is becoming MUST HAVE. Just watch the news. If you want more information, go to www dot. Can't see all the Olympics because we have to go to the internet. If we want to see what products have the recall we have to go to the internet. The newspapers now tell you to go to the internet. I used to get the Reader's Digest. I quit. Too much going to the internet.

We pay very high taxes out here! We keep getting fees added to out phone service and our dial up, so that they can make improvements. Who is getting the improvements? Not me. We can't even get cell service here.

I am tired of being told to move. At least Bells shows empathy. Shaw tells me "Sucks to be you" with a very smug look!

I have given up on the idea of ever having anything better than dial-up out here.

From now on though, I think that every time Shaw or Bell or Rogers or whoever is down or people are complaining about it, it had better get moved from the soapbox.

People should watch what they say because one day living in Sault Ste. Marie, things may change. (and I am not talking internet) People from Toronto will be telling those in Sault Ste. Marie, "If you want better service, move closer!" People are already complaining about the local news maybe disappearing.

Hans
07-01-2009, 04:46 PM
Your only (future) option would be internet using power lines. However, it's not available yet and still in a testing phase.

Hans
07-01-2009, 04:48 PM
http://www.allbusiness.com/energy-utilities/utilities-industry-electric-powerity/5568244-1.html

As you can see, old link and I am not sure where they stand with it at this point in time.

Hans
07-01-2009, 04:51 PM
http://www.ssmpuc.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=content&PageID=1044&PageCategory=42

I would call up PUC and ask them what's happening with it.

gouligann
07-01-2009, 05:43 PM
xplorenet.com for satelight service in this area

I agree, dialup SUCKS!~ I think we're going to give xplorenet a try. It can't be worse than dialup! For the few times the weather knocks out internet, it still isn't as bad as the wait times on dialup. I get so frustrated, I could throw my PC out the window sometimes.

mboy67
07-01-2009, 09:19 PM
I am sorry, but I think that is one of the stupidest things I have ever read on this site! It is a very immature comment and is not professional coming from a mod! How angry would you be if a mod said that to you? If I were to say that Pino's Grocery store is too far away (I live in the West end), would you tell me to move closer?

It's anything but stupid it the truth and not immature in any way. It's sad but everyone who lives out of the city has to deal with dial up but whining about it will not change the facts. It's economically not feasible at this time for any company or Government to put in the infrastructure to accommodate everyone. So that being said again the only way your going to get the service is to move closer. If you or anyone does not like me telling you the hard facts in the mater then Sorry for not sugar coating it.

Bill Nash
07-01-2009, 11:39 PM
So, .... I live within the city limits and yet I cannot get access to anything but dial-up. Am I still suppose to "suck it up", and how much closer do I have to move, .... maybe next to the Essar Centre, ... that might be close enough.

V Code
07-02-2009, 07:09 AM
gee, high taxes, high traveling costs, high cost for phone service, no high speed internet...... there must be a reason you live out there. so enjoy it.

get off the darn computer and live rural, it must be why you are out there cause everything else appears to suck as well.

Anna Noyance
07-02-2009, 09:04 AM
gee, high taxes, high traveling costs, high cost for phone service, no high speed internet...... there must be a reason you live out there. so enjoy it.

get off the darn computer and live rural, it must be why you are out there cause everything else appears to suck as well.

Who complained about high traveling cost and high cost of phone service? My phone service is the same price as those in the city. I WHINED about my phone costs and dial-up costs going up (like everyone elses does) so that Bell/Shaw/Starchoice can improve EVERYONE'S phone/internet service. At least that is what their excuse for raising prices is. Well they are not improving EVERYONE'S service.

You should be happy there are people who live in rural areas. Who do you think would begin to whine, if on trips there were no stores, restaurants, gasoline stations or whatever you need at pit stops? Who would whine if there was no locally grown products? Somebody has to live in the rural areas.

I just feel that SUCK IT UP is starting to get very stale.

The INTERNET is, as I stated before, becoming a must in society.

Daiv
07-02-2009, 09:08 AM
I think they should make a new thread called 'Favourites'
Then everybody can post their comments about favourite TV show's and books and ice cream and all the other useless drivel in there!

tired-n-cranky
07-02-2009, 09:20 AM
Please keep to the topic at hand.

Speaking from experience, there is no way that current broadband, other than satellite, can be provided to rural areas. There is this thing called ROI, and ROI for the cost of the equipment needed would take 30+ years from the low population density.

So it comes down to: Spend thousands of dollars per square km, and take 30+ years to recover costs, which by then the hardware will be antique, OR, leave it alone.

Hermit
07-02-2009, 08:48 PM
Rogers is offering High Speed via airwaves (same as cell phone) at a reasonable price - about $50 all inclusive for moderate internet use. It's about $80 for heavy use.

Telus is offering the same deal.

Their maps show that the City of Sault Ste. Marie gets the 10x service where rural areas will get the 1x service.

I don't know the difference but 1x sounds a lot faster than 26 kbps on dial up. I'm paying $25 for dial so I'd gladly add another $25 to triple that speed.

GRUMPY
07-03-2009, 01:02 PM
it all boils down to supply and demand and there just isn't enough people to make it worth while out in the boonies, these are big corporations not charities..

Bluesky
07-04-2009, 10:46 PM
I agree that there just aren't enough customers in the rural areas to suppor this. What is frustrating however, is that politicians have been promising hi speed for rural areas for years. They should stop flapping their gums and raising false expectations.

Shawn
07-09-2009, 08:19 PM
Personally I would like to put high speed into areas like Goulais and St. Joes island, but the biggest problem is the cost vs the amount of people. People don't have any idea of the cost of what an ISP puts into equipment. Everyone thinks its cheap, but I have some pieces of equipment that probably cost more than your cars. I know we even have some pieces of equipment that cost more than your houses to make everything work 24/7, and yet people complain about $40/month...

My suggestion would be if you want high speed, then start doing some footwork. Why not get a list going as to people who would want it. I would get a list of addresses and names that way its easy to map out areas with higher population to support any high speed. Another thing too would be to get business listed as well because generally the more businesses interested the more chances of a good outcome. Generally businesses use the net during the day and residential use it in the evening making good use of the network. Also businesses generally pay more because they generally transfer more data than a residential user.

Really the only way something gets done is if there is enough demand and enough people to make a return on the investment.

mags
07-10-2009, 06:08 AM
I just got a Bell turbo stick for the cottage, works great. We are past St. Joe's. Signed up for a package & stick was free. Rogers has similar offers right now. I have given up waiting for high speed and these sticks became available.
If you have cell phone reception then the sticks work.

NewCasa
07-10-2009, 07:14 AM
I have satellite. It wasn't $1k for install - it was about $600. And it's only $130/month if you take the high end deal. I'm paying about $60/month. Service is not bad. I moved here from town and high speed is certainly MUCH better, but this is as much better than dial-up. Not a perfect solution, but the best us second class citizens are gonna get for a long, long time. I spoke to the PUC. Their business model is like everyone elses - serve the cityfolk first and maybe one day get to the others.

Hermit
07-10-2009, 05:40 PM
I got my Rogers "Rocket" stick. It fluctuates between 0.000 and 96.000 (kbps). Mostly it stays on 0.0000. I called them today to discuss it....they brought me through the 'usual' things (clear the cache etc.). Then they claimed they will have a technician examine the situation and call me. The service is at "3 bars" and my cell is it at "5 bars".


I'm not holding my breath. They'll just say "you're out of our service area. Sorry for the inconvenience."

Bluesky
07-22-2009, 07:30 AM
Personally I would like to put high speed into areas like Goulais and St. Joes island, but the biggest problem is the cost vs the amount of people. People don't have any idea of the cost of what an ISP puts into equipment. Everyone thinks its cheap, but I have some pieces of equipment that probably cost more than your cars. I know we even have some pieces of equipment that cost more than your houses to make everything work 24/7, and yet people complain about $40/month...

My suggestion would be if you want high speed, then start doing some footwork. Why not get a list going as to people who would want it. I would get a list of addresses and names that way its easy to map out areas with higher population to support any high speed. Another thing too would be to get business listed as well because generally the more businesses interested the more chances of a good outcome. Generally businesses use the net during the day and residential use it in the evening making good use of the network. Also businesses generally pay more because they generally transfer more data than a residential user.

Really the only way something gets done is if there is enough demand and enough people to make a return on the investment.

Has any ISP ever done a survey of various regions like Goulais River to determine feasability? Or do they just need to look at the population figures and decide based on percentages, whether it's viable or not?

Bluesky
07-22-2009, 07:31 AM
I got my Rogers "Rocket" stick. It fluctuates between 0.000 and 96.000 (kbps). Mostly it stays on 0.0000. I called them today to discuss it....they brought me through the 'usual' things (clear the cache etc.). Then they claimed they will have a technician examine the situation and call me. The service is at "3 bars" and my cell is it at "5 bars".


I'm not holding my breath. They'll just say "you're out of our service area. Sorry for the inconvenience."

Course the Rogers stick won't work in Goulais/Havilland. I get no cell service out here with Rogers, till I get to the top of mile hill. I wonder if that will EVER change? Sigh.

NewCasa
07-22-2009, 09:10 AM
How about a cell tower for Goulais? There's one in Searchmont and one in Batchewana, leaving a nice hole around the Mountainview School area. Even if we had cell service it'd be a big improvement.

Anna Noyance
07-22-2009, 10:38 AM
I am not believing anything anymore about High Speed or Cell Service.

We have been hearing for a few years that we are supposed to be getting a new tower in our area and there has been nothing. I think they tell us what they know we want to hear just to shut us up.

I have also heard, recently, that unless you pay big bucks per month, Xplornet is not that much faster. I don't know if this is true for all. $60 per month for a max speed of 512 kbps. (after the $600 set up which probably has hidden costs) People are not getting that speed all the time.

NewCasa
07-22-2009, 10:48 AM
I am not believing anything anymore about High Speed or Cell Service.

We have been hearing for a few years that we are supposed to be getting a new tower in our area and there has been nothing. I think they tell us what they know we want to hear just to shut us up.

I have also heard, recently, that unless you pay big bucks per month, Xplornet is not that much faster. I don't know if this is true for all. $60 per month for a max speed of 512 kbps. (after the $600 set up which probably has hidden costs) People are not getting that speed all the time.

Explorenet is faster than dialup, but they've got quotas so if you do lots of downloading you will find that you will hit your quota pretty quickly. Once you hit your quota they cut your service back to the point where it's pretty much useless for a 24 hour period. They call this their 'fair usage policy'. I've hit the quota a couple of times, each time it was microsoft updates that started downloading automatically and in the background. Of course, Xplorenet didn't really care about the reasons.

The other issue with Explorenet is that is subject to the same issues as all satellite services. Weather is a huge factor. Cloudy = slow and intermittent service, Rain will wash out service and Snow will often do the same.

Given their quotas and vulnerability to weather I think of Xplorenet as my 'fair weather friends'. Cost was about $1k including setup and I pay about $60/month.

Konig-OV
07-24-2009, 08:40 AM
one post you say it isn't $1k, that it's $600. This last post you are saying it's $1k. How much is it really?

NewCasa
07-24-2009, 10:00 AM
one post you say it isn't $1k, that it's $600. This last post you are saying it's $1k. How much is it really?

Call them - I'm not in the business.

verotik66
07-30-2009, 09:49 AM
Has any ISP ever done a survey of various regions like Goulais River to determine feasability? Or do they just need to look at the population figures and decide based on percentages, whether it's viable or not?

I had started one, to cover goulais and airport area. was told commercial coverage was well under way so i let it go, this was 2 years ago, and again last year.

I will get off my duff this winter and move forward with my original plan.

Shawn
07-31-2009, 02:45 AM
Well this may help things along in some areas. Right now I can't find much but I will look into it once more info is published on it. It may make things feasible if its one of those area's they see as having a gap is service... Either way its not cheap to just put some high speed in an area, and the right equipment needs to be used too.

http://www.sootoday.com/content/news/full_story.asp?StoryNumber=40877

Andre
07-31-2009, 07:45 AM
You can check the map here:
http://www.ic.gc.ca/eic/site/720.nsf/eng/h_50010.html
for what are considered under service areas
We are on the Southern Region Map.
From what I can tell, it doesn't look too good for us.

SSMP
08-05-2009, 10:37 AM
I don't know if it would be better or worse, but have to tried with an American supplier, At&T or some such. I know that my phone sometimes switches to AT&T when I am close to the river. They may have a stick that you can use to get coverage on the Island. It may even be 3G.

verotik66
08-11-2009, 10:40 AM
South Algoma/West Sault (SAW)

Project Status and Update as of 09 Jul 09

ADnet combined the West Sault project with a new project in early May 09 and became the South Algoma/West Sault (SAWS) project. The change was made after consultations with the provincial funding authorities in order to optimize the funding process.

ADnet issued a Request for Expression of Interest (REOI) to industry on 08 May 09. Four potential vendors responded by the 01 Jun 09 closing date. All respondents met the required REOI criteria. Under the terms of the REOI and to ensure a fair, open and transparent procurement process as mandated by provincial and federal guidelines, ADnet developed a Request for Proposal (RFP).

ADnet issued the RFP to the four REOI compliant vendors on 18 Jun 09. The closing date for receipt of responses is 11 Aug 09.

ADnet issued an invitation to stakeholders on 08 Jul 09 to nominate persons to serve on the RFP evaluation panel. The purpose of the evaluation panel is to review the responses and make a recommendation as to the preferred vendor. The panel will meet during the week of 17 Aug 09. It is anticipated that a preferred vendor will be confirmed by mid-Sep.

http://www.adnetalgoma.ca/Project%20Web/West%20Sault%20REOIv2%20Map.jpg

is vianet one of the respondents to this secret RFP?

Konig-OV
08-12-2009, 03:47 PM
Not to sure, they still use cable and telephone wires, no?

Konig-OV
08-12-2009, 03:57 PM
It wasn't $1k for install - it was about $600. And it's only $130/month if you take the high end deal. I'm paying about $60/month.


Cost was about $1k including setup and I pay about $60/month.


Call them - I'm not in the business.

First you said you paid $600, then you said you paid $1,000 which is it? I'm getting mine on the 17th, and only paid $392.

SSMP
08-13-2009, 09:20 AM
is vianet one of the respondents to this secret RFP?
You seem to have a lot of information for a secret rfp.

NewCasa
08-14-2009, 03:18 PM
First you said you paid $600, then you said you paid $1,000 which is it? I'm getting mine on the 17th, and only paid $392.

Meh - it was somewhere between $600 and $1000. If equipment was $400 the difference is likely the installation cost. I sure hope for your sake you know what you're doing because their support stinks.

Case in point: My modem started malfunctioning early last week. I called last Thursday and was told a tech would call me within 24-48 hours. Still no call. I will be calling them back today. My modem is now completely dead and has been for the last 3 days.

verotik66
08-16-2009, 10:40 PM
You seem to have a lot of information for a secret rfp.

i never seen it advertised anywhere