Finally the people might get a say

[GRUMPY]

From the Sault Star:

City council has approved the framework for putting a "Boxing Day question" on the November 2010 municipal election ballot.

Council learned in a report Monday from city solicitor Lorrie Bottos that putting a question on the matter on the 2010 ballot would carry minimal cost and that a bylaw must be passed by May 2010 to move forward.


The Municipal Elections Act states that council must pass a resolution at least 180 days prior to voting day, to allow for the question to be included as part of the municipal election.
from the Sault Star:

The question must be written in a clear, concise, neutral manner and be capable of being answered yes or no.

If at least 50 per cent of eligible voters cast a ballot on the question, and more than 50 per cent of the votes are in favor, then the decision is binding.

Previously, council has gone to the public for its opinion on such matters as fluoridation of the water supply, Sunday shopping, and Casino Sault Ste. Marie.

[adigirl]

I guess it paid to sit on their behinds and wait for someone else to give them an opportunity to be heard!

[GRUMPY]

Ya but they'll have to wait till 2010 to vote and thats if they actually get out and do it. But odds are they won't and once again we'll be subjected to even more sniveling over it and even more threads about how bad city council is for listening to those who cared enough to get out and vote.

[pylus]

Well what I believe is the last time (correct me if I'm wrong) we were given a vote on an issue was for capital punishment. Algoma district voted 70%+ in favour of keeping it, which was right along the lines of the rest of Canada. When it went to the elected represenitives 70%+ voted to get rid of it, including the guy who gave us the ballot in the first place.

Good thoughts, but I honestly don't think we will be given any choice.

[WingNut]

Don't care what they vote on in 2010. I'll continue to do most of my shopping in Sault Mich./Traverse City/ Birch run/ and Sudbury. I've had it with the Downtown Merchants and this NRPA group that want to dictate when everyone should shop and who should open and not open, and who they don't want coming into the city. Besides you get a bigger bang for the buck across the river.

[adigirl]

Take me to Birch Run or Traverse Mall for the day nutty one!!! I love shopping.

[WingNut]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: adigirl</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Take me to Birch Run or Traverse Mall for the day nutty one!!! I love shopping. </div></div>

Ya, Adigirl, if you are ever in Auburn Hills by Detroit there is a giant mall called Great Lakes Crossings, it has everything you could think of, even a Big Bass Pro Shop for the guys. We usually hit Birch Run and Traverse City about 5 times per year making a week-end of it. Next time down there will be Sept. 9-15.

[adigirl]

I don't take my husband...he slows me down rofl

Thanks for letting me know about that place too!

[WingNut]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: adigirl</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I don't take my husband...he slows me down rofl

Thanks for letting me know about that place too! </div></div>

Just stick him in the Big Bass Pro Shop and come back for him in about 5 hours, He'll have a ball! And probably spend a mint too.

[adigirl]

Right, so he will cut in to my shopping money. He stays home hahaha Aren't ya glad you are not married to me?

[WingNut]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: adigirl</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Right, so he will cut in to my shopping money. He stays home hahaha Aren't ya glad you are not married to me? </div></div>

Oh man, that would mean I would be stuck in the Sault all the time.

[GRUMPY]

Have you ever tried Malls of America in Minneapolis? I know its farther away but still only a days drive. As for the vote its legally binding if over half the people get out and vote, which to me is totally stupid.As long as only 1 person votes it should be enough as the others who didn't take the time or make the effort should just have to live with it. Come to think about it about what those who didn't show up at the meeting to fight for their cause have to do now. Mind you we'll still have to put up with their childish temper tantrums.

[WingNut]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: adigirl</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Right, so he will cut in to my shopping money. He stays home hahaha Aren't ya glad you are not married to me? </div></div>

One way to get around that is to give him $50. and tell him to find you when he's spent it. It will take hime at least 3 hrs to find you there. Thats what I do with my wife! ( YA, RIGHT)!!!! No comments Grumper!

[adigirl]

I was at the supermall in Phili and I had an erotic moment lol

OK, I am done hyjacking now.

[GRUMPY]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Wing Nut</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Don't care what they vote on in 2010. I'll continue to do most of my shopping in Sault Mich./Traverse City/ Birch run/ and Sudbury. I've had it with the Downtown Merchants and this NRPA group that want to dictate when everyone should shop and who should open and not open, and who they don't want coming into the city. Besides you get a bigger bang for the buck across the river. </div></div>

You'd think that by now the NRPA would get the idea that we're still not stuck in the past like they seem to be. Now a days people don't think twice about heading out on a road trip to do some shopping. I get a kick out of all the BS about the locks being in poor shape ,maybe somebody from the government passes through town and decided that was the best way to keep them , that way they wouldn't stick out like a sore thumb. If you want people to stop and shop try using a broom and a pail of water for starters. I was across the river yesterday with a chum golfing ( golfing is great there at a MUCH better price) and we were both amazed how clean and neat it is there,our side looks like we've never heard of garbage cans with all the crap laying all over.

[WingNut]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: grumpy</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Wing Nut</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Don't care what they vote on in 2010. I'll continue to do most of my shopping in Sault Mich./Traverse City/ Birch run/ and Sudbury. I've had it with the Downtown Merchants and this NRPA group that want to dictate when everyone should shop and who should open and not open, and who they don't want coming into the city. Besides you get a bigger bang for the buck across the river. </div></div>

You'd think that by now the NRPA would get the idea that we're still not stuck in the past like they seem to be. Now a days people don't think twice about heading out on a road trip to do some shopping. I get a kick out of all the BS about the locks being in poor shape ,maybe somebody from the government passes through town and decided that was the best way to keep them , that way they wouldn't stick out like a sore thumb. If you want people to stop and shop try using a broom and a pail of water for starters. I was across the river yesterday with a chum golfing ( golfing is great there at a MUCH better price) and we were both amazed how clean and neat it is there,our side looks like we've never heard of garbage cans with all the crap laying all over. </div></div>

Right! Sault Mich is very clean and tidy, they should be congratulated on having such a clean town, it sure looks great.

[pylus]

I gotta think that in the end it would be against the interests of city council to give any vote in the matter and will vote down anything resembling a choice by the people. Imagine actually setting a precedence of giving the tax payers the right to choose something.

Can't see getting a vote on any issue.

[WingNut]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: pylus</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I gotta think that in the end it would be against the interests of city council to give any vote in the matter and will vote down anything resembling a choice by the people. Imagine actually setting a precedence of giving the tax payers the right to choose something.

Can't see getting a vote on any issue. </div></div>

Pylus, I think they already have the documents drafted up for the vote.

[GRUMPY]

I just cracked up when I watched the council meeting when this was brought up and the city lawyer told them how it worked that if over 50% of the people voted that it was binding and that it had to be implemented and the joke that is mayor says something to the effect that even if the majority wanted it he feels that he still couldn't vote for it. He is actually so dense that the words legally binding had no effect on him , the arse couldn't comprehend that they wouldn't be able to vote on it because its a done deal. Now I will agree that they will try and stop the people from having a say on it. So maybe those who have been sniveling about how things turned out will pick themselves up off their butts and get cracking to see that this doesn't happen.

[GRUMPY]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Wing Nut</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: pylus</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I gotta think that in the end it would be against the interests of city council to give any vote in the matter and will vote down anything resembling a choice by the people. Imagine actually setting a precedence of giving the tax payers the right to choose something.

Can't see getting a vote on any issue. </div></div>

Pylus, I think they already have the documents drafted up for the vote. </div></div>

Yes but they still have to vote to have it added to the next election, so far they've only been talking about adding it. If they do decide not to have it added I just hope the people in this town have enough common sense to remember when it comes time to elect the next council.

[pylus]

I was looking at some voting things before last election... Don't remember what but within the last 5 years council no longer keeps track of who votes or on which side of the issue anymore... Even if that wasn't the point of whatever I read, I am sure that is what it said. Anyone remember something along those lines? I don't even know where to start looking for it.

And a stat holiday would likely be provicial if not federal law, I honestly don't think municipal could change that if it was questioned. Is boxing day a stat or a dictated day on or off?

[GRUMPY]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: pylus</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

And a stat holiday would likely be provicial if not federal law, I honestly don't think municipal could change that if it was questioned. Is boxing day a stat or a dictated day on or off? </div></div>

The council has changed it twice now so I'd have to imagine that they can.

[pylus]

Yes, I suppose they can dictate to one part of the workforce whether they can work or not on that day. But, as for changing the day you get stat pay they can't that would be Ontario only, from their employee standards act.

[JohnnyCash]

you still have to pay people for it, So lets see how canadian tire and sears like paying that giant staff for no reason

[adigirl]

What does that mean? Should Sears start complaining that they have to pay employees for other stat holidays too?

[JohnnyCash]

no, that they cant open to offset the cost of paying for a a stat. have you seen sears on boxing day? you cant even walk in there. I don't care cause all I need is one furniture store to open and my boss will open as well. As for sniveling grumpy, you can pay for [censored] my kids going to miss out on cause of the pay I'm missing out on. I'm not complaining for me I'm complaining for the loss this is going to cause my family. Some people think of others before themselves

[Tutones]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: TheManInBlack</div><div class="ubbcode-body">you still have to pay people for it, So lets see how canadian tire and sears like paying that giant staff for no reason </div></div>

And how is that any different than its been the last 20 years? and other stat holidays for that matter?

The only long term result of everyone opening on Boxing day will be that the Government takes away its status as a statutory holiday and everyone will lose their double time and a half extra pay anyway.

Honestly, the only ones who should be voting on whether stores open on Boxing day are the retail employees that are or will be directly effected by it. Take a poll of how many of them actually WANT to work it and let that stand as the decision. The people who want to shop 365 days a year need to take a break and find something better to do with their holidays.

[pylus]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: TheManInBlack</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> As for sniveling grumpy, you can pay for [censored] my kids going to miss out on cause of the pay I'm missing out on. I'm not complaining for me I'm complaining for the loss this is going to cause my family. Some people think of others before themselves </div></div>

Most people think of themselves, or at least what they think is best for others first. What about the families that go to relatives and such during the holidays, many of them would say [censored] the few extra bucks, its my family that is priceless.

And BTW you chose the profession, you had the kids. But, of course in modern society I believe you are likely part of the majority, or at least a very large minority, hell maybe Grumpy should pay for your choices.

[adigirl]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: TheManInBlack</div><div class="ubbcode-body">no, that they cant open to offset the cost of paying for a a stat. have you seen sears on boxing day? you cant even walk in there. I don't care cause all I need is one furniture store to open and my boss will open as well. As for sniveling grumpy, you can pay for [censored] my kids going to miss out on cause of the pay I'm missing out on. I'm not complaining for me I'm complaining for the loss this is going to cause my family. Some people think of others before themselves </div></div>

OK I don't get this. People are still going to shop on the 27th like it was the 26th. I guess we have to wait and see what the actual statistics finally show but my guess is the same amount of money will be spent by consumers only over a shorter period of time (by one day).

[mags]

When council votes on allowing the question to be placed on the ballot at least two (Manzo & the Mayor) will vote against it. The Mayor is on record saying even if the public votes for Boxing Day shopping he won't allow it, if he is still Mayor.

[GRUMPY]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Mags</div><div class="ubbcode-body">When council votes on allowing the question to be placed on the ballot at least two (Manzo & the Mayor) will vote against it. The Mayor is on record saying even if the public votes for Boxing Day shopping he won't allow it, if he is still Mayor. </div></div>

See that just shows how out of touch with reality he is, Maybe he should ask Fratizi what legally binding actually means.

[GRUMPY]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: TheManInBlack</div><div class="ubbcode-body">no, that they cant open to offset the cost of paying for a a stat. have you seen sears on boxing day? you cant even walk in there. I don't care cause all I need is one furniture store to open and my boss will open as well. As for sniveling grumpy, you can pay for [censored] my kids going to miss out on cause of the pay I'm missing out on. I'm not complaining for me I'm complaining for the loss this is going to cause my family. Some people think of others before themselves </div></div>

Chummy if missing out on the extra pay from one days work makes that big a difference to the welfare of your family you should either pick up another job or find a better paying one. There should be a good chance for you to pick one up at the plant after the contract is signed.

[GRUMPY]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: pylus</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Yes, I suppose they can dictate to one part of the workforce whether they can work or not on that day. But, as for changing the day you get stat pay they can't that would be Ontario only, from their employee standards act. </div></div>

The only thing being voted on (hopefully) is if the stores can open or not, thats all.

[GRUMPY]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: TheManInBlack</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> Some people think of others before themselves </div></div>

Actually what you are saying is that people should think of you and not themselves.

[NoName]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Tutones</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: TheManInBlack</div><div class="ubbcode-body">you still have to pay people for it, So lets see how canadian tire and sears like paying that giant staff for no reason </div></div>

And how is that any different than its been the last 20 years? and other stat holidays for that matter?

The only long term result of everyone opening on Boxing day will be that the Government takes away its status as a statutory holiday and everyone will lose their double time and a half extra pay anyway.

Honestly, the only ones who should be voting on whether stores open on Boxing day are the retail employees that are or will be directly effected by it. Take a poll of how many of them actually WANT to work it and let that stand as the decision. The people who want to shop 365 days a year need to take a break and find something better to do with their holidays. </div></div>

I agree, since they are the ones who have to go to work in those places.