View Full Version : Are Catholics the reason..
Macs II
07-25-2009, 08:54 PM
Are Catholics the reason why being a Christian is bad today?
Are lot of Catholics racists? ....
Anapeg
07-25-2009, 09:00 PM
Me thinks thou art on shaky ground here........................
Blunt
07-25-2009, 09:19 PM
Are lot of Catholics racists? ....
Racism is present in the hearts of some Catholics and institutionally in the Catholic Church
Blunt, could you please give us examples of racism being an institutionalized phenomenon in the Roman Catholic Church?
Blunt
07-25-2009, 10:05 PM
Racism is present in church, U.S. archbishop says, offering apology, committing to action
NEW ORLEANS, La. (Catholic Online) – Racism is present in the hearts of some Catholics and institutionally in the Catholic Church which the faithful must work to purge in thought and in action, said a U.S. archbishop in a comprehensive pastoral letter...
“I want to express an apology for the way in which I or other members of the church have acted or failed to act,” he said. “I want to acknowledge the past in truth, seek forgiveness and recommit myself and our church in New Orleans to realizing the gospel message in our relations with one another.”...
But he pointed to the presence of racism in the church in the past and its existence today that it must work to purge...
“Racism can be both personal and institutional,” he stressed. “Hence, it involves not only individual prejudice but also the use of religious, social, political, economic or historical power to keep one race privileged.”
Institutions, he noted, can “foster attitudes or practices that leads to unjust discrimination” in political life, in education, in housing and in establishing blockages to equal economic opportunities.
Institutional racism is also present in the Catholic Church, he said...
http://www.catholic.org/national/national_story.php?id=22439&page=1
In my prior post, I simply quoted the archbishop. It was he who claims there is institutional racism within the Catholic Church.
Blunt
07-25-2009, 10:08 PM
Is Jesus being endlessly portrayed as some extra pale, white fellow, when he would very likely have been brown, considered racist? ;)
"said a U.S. archbishop in a comprehensive pastoral letter..."
Seriously? That is your source??
If that same Archbishop wrote a "comprehensive pastoral letter" proclaiming all Atheists idiots, would you also cite him?
Is Jesus being endlessly portrayed as some extra pale, white fellow, when he would very likely have been brown, considered racist? ;)
...and he is portrayed as Black in Africa, and Nordic in Sweden, and Asian in China, and...
Blunt, please...we're grown-ups here :)
Anapeg
07-25-2009, 10:40 PM
"said a U.S. archbishop in a comprehensive pastoral letter..."Seriously? That is your source??
So you doubt the good Archbishop to be in possession of all his faculties? A member/leader of your Church would cast aspersions? Interesting. If I were to assume this position you would accuse me of demeaning/impugning the Man of the Cloth.
Blunt
07-25-2009, 10:52 PM
"said a U.S. archbishop in a comprehensive pastoral letter..."
Seriously? That is your source??
If that same Archbishop wrote a "comprehensive pastoral letter" proclaiming all Atheists idiots, would you also cite him?
Sorry... "Archbishop Alfred C. Hughes"
There, happy? I even pasted the name of the gentleman because you can't be bothered to read the article, because the article doesn't jive with the preconceived notions that closed your mind off, years ago ;)
NewCasa
07-25-2009, 11:12 PM
Oboy this one's gonna be fun :) Thanks MK - great pot-stirring!
dancingqueen
07-26-2009, 03:31 AM
"said a U.S. archbishop in a comprehensive pastoral letter..."
Seriously? That is your source??
If that same Archbishop wrote a "comprehensive pastoral letter" proclaiming all Atheists idiots, would you also cite him?
I don't understand the logic behind this, could you elaborate please?
Otherwise, the same logic can be applied to anything anyone says... ever. And no one would get anywhere.
Blunt didn't answer my question: If the Archbishop wrote a "comprehensive pastoral letter" proclaiming all Atheists idiots, would you also cite him?
DQ, I'm not saying the Archbishop doesn't have a right to express his opinion; but that's all it is, one opinion.
You have one Archbishop saying there is institutional racism in the Church, yet you have hundreds not saying anything like that. So the one takes precedence over the hundreds? Why is that?
Well, that is because he plays into the preconceived notions you guys have.
The Roman Catholic Church may be one of the least racist institutions in the world. It is one of the world's largest charities, serving people of almost all races and creeds.
Now, I think a very good case could be made that where there is Atheism, there is racism.
Hitler went after the Jews and others, for one example.
And as for one of the largest and most well-known racist organizations in US history, the Ku Klux Klan, well ,they were Protestant, and they targeted Catholics along with African Americans.
Oboy this one's gonna be fun :) Thanks MK - great pot-stirring!
Oh...but wait...I thought you hated pot-stirring? I thought you longed for substantive debate??
Geez...you're not a ...a...hypocrite, are you?? ;)
CATHOLIC INSTITUTIONS
SCHOOLS
The Church is the largest operator of private schools in the U.S., with over 2.6 million students enrolled in its 6,900 elementary schools and some 1,200 high schools, costing roughly $10 billion a year. Most of the elementary schools are attached to local parishes, while high schools are often run by a Catholic religious order, such as the Jesuits or Christian Brothers. Although tuition has been rising sharply, schools still receive large subsidies from the Church.
UNIVERSITIES
There are 230 Catholic colleges and universities with a combined total of 670,000 students. Most colleges are sponsored by a religious congregation, like the Jesuits, who have 28 colleges--including Georgetown, Boston College, and Holy Cross. Just 11 are sponsored by a diocese, and only Catholic University in Washington is directly sponsored by the Church. There are few direct financial ties between most Catholic colleges and the Church. Most are run by a lay board of trustees. Like other private colleges, tuition is the primary source of revenue, though some have sizable endowments, like Notre Dame's $2.8 billion.
HEALTH CARE
The nonprofit health-care system includes 637 hospitals, accounting for 17% of all U.S. hospital admissions. The Church also runs 122 home health-care agencies and nearly 700 other service providers, including assisted living, adult day care, and senior housing. The hospitals alone have annual expenses of $65 billion and account for 5% of U.S. health-care spending.
CHARITIES
Catholic Charities USA consists of 1,400 agencies that run soup kitchens, temporary shelters, child care, and refugee resettlement. In 1999, Catholic Charities had collective revenues of $2.34 billion. Most of that comes from state and local governments and from program fees. The Church accounts for only about 12% of income.
Data: Center for Applied Research in the Apostolate at Georgetown University; National Catholic Educational Assn.; Catholic Health Assn.; U.S. Conference of Catholic Bishops; Catholic Charities USA
Hmmm...how racist ;)
Anapeg
07-26-2009, 09:58 AM
Geez...you're not a ...a...hypocrite, are you?? ;)
And once again Slow drags out his most used word. Can you say monotonous boys and girls?
And once again Slow drags out his most used word. Can you say monotonous boys and girls?
Can you say "If the shoe fits" ladies and gents?
NewCasa
07-26-2009, 10:22 AM
Oh...but wait...I thought you hated pot-stirring? I thought you longed for substantive debate??
Geez...you're not a ...a...hypocrite, are you?? ;)
Nah - that was before. Given the quality of your contributions (ie. Translation:, SLOW WINS!, 'hypocrite' 20x a day, etc.) I've had to lower my standards.
Now I'm just getting my pleasure out of seeing you get all squirmy :)
So you've become everything you once abhorred.
Congratulations on your downfall.
You must be proud. :)
NewCasa
07-26-2009, 10:35 AM
So you've become everything you once abhorred.
Congratulations on your downfall.
You must be proud. :)
Wow. Coming from the source of so many things I abhor that's pretty ironic :)
Not proud, disappointed actually. Once again, I have to say it's sad to see someone with such obvious intelligence fall prey to their constant need for reassurance.
Ok here you go:
SLOW WINS!!
Feel better now?
No, because I use the "I win" line on those that have no desire other than confrontation in here. By using that line I get under their skin. If someone acts responsibly, I do the same.
Again, you get what you give with me. You can claim all you want it is me in the mirror I hold up to you.
But your inner-conscience tells you a much different story. And it is that cognitive dissonance that has turned you into just another troll in here.
Like I said, you must be proud.
lynys
07-26-2009, 10:54 AM
Back on topic... ;)
Just my own personal opinion, but I don't think you can say that Catholics are the most racist. I am sure there are many Catholic people that ARE racist; just as there are many Muslims, Atheists, Jews, etc., that are also. Lumping a group as being something, when it is only individuals in the group that actually are is naive and ignorant, IMO.
Anapeg
07-26-2009, 10:54 AM
So you've become everything you once abhorred.
Congratulations on your downfall.
You must be proud. :)
Being different than yourself is reward enough, sir. I can look south of the border and see things which I admire, things which are very good. Also I can look south of our border and see things I abhor, things which are not good. I don't post the good nor the bad. I will reflect on more often than not a passing comment rather than the piece.
You, an American CHOOSES to spend all your free time on a Canadian site where Canadians exercise their inalienable right to *****, chew, whine and cry. We tear down the U.S., Briton, Canada, the weather, taxes, what the government does with taxes, etc.
You sir are a visitor in OUR land. With the education you boast you of all should realize this and learn to ignore or start your own BBS in Sault Mich. Imagine the fun you could have then, and NEVER need concern yourself over banishment ever again.
Back on topic... ;)
Just my own personal opinion, but I don't think you can say that Catholics are the most racist. I am sure there are many Catholic people that ARE racist; just as there are many Muslims, Atheists, Jews, etc., that are also. Lumping a group as being something, when it is only individuals in the group that actually are is naive and ignorant, IMO.
Yeah, what of that "lumping people" that, on another thread, was rightly put down and denigrated as anything worthwhile?
I guess lumping people is okay if it furthers an agenda to attack Catholicism.
Anapeg
07-26-2009, 10:56 AM
Back on topic... ;)
Sorry but you obviously type much better then myself.
NewCasa
07-26-2009, 10:56 AM
No, because I use the "I win" line on those that have no desire other than confrontation in here. By using that line I get under their skin. If someone acts responsibly, I do the same.
Again, you get what you give with me. You can claim all you want it is me in the mirror I hold up to you.
But your inner-conscience tells you a much different story. And it is that cognitive dissonance that has turned you into just another troll in here.
Like I said, you must be proud.
No Slow, I'm not a troll. If you check my posts any troll-ish ones are directed only at you. And it's funny you mention the mirror - that's exactly what I'm doing.
Slow, you're too quick to 'give what you get' and you're too good at giving it. You provide large magnifications in return for small offenses.
Also remember, this is a Canadian BBS and the United States is a very large target. We've lived in the shadow of your country all our lives. That's bound to spawn some feeling that you obviously neither care to understand nor have any sensitivity for. I'm not whining - I wouldn't live in any other country on the planet - I'm just stating the facts and I'm hoping you'll get that. Think through the implications and maybe you'll see why there's the odd comment for free about the USA and why there's often such an outcry when you comment back. You're right - it's not always appropriate, but it is what it is.
Being different than yourself is reward enough, sir. I can look south of the border and see things which I admire, things which are very good. Also I can look south of our border and see things I abhor, things which are not good. I don't post the good nor the bad. I will reflect on more often than not a passing comment rather than the piece.
You, an American CHOOSES to spend all your free time on a Canadian site where Canadians exercise their inalienable right to *****, chew, whine and cry. We tear down the U.S., Briton, Canada, the weather, taxes, what the government does with taxes, etc.
You sir are a visitor in OUR land. With the education you boast you of all should realize this and learn to ignore or start your own BBS in Sault Mich. Imagine the fun you could have then, and NEVER need concern yourself over banishment ever again.
We invented the Internet, so you are merely a guest here ;)
lynys
07-26-2009, 10:57 AM
Yeah, what of that "lumping people" that, on another thread, was rightly put down and denigrated as anything worthwhile?
I guess lumping people is okay if it furthers an agenda to attack Catholicism.
Haven't read another thread. Just decided to venture in here today after a long absence from this board, so I cannot comment on it. (especially when I was not part of said lumping, my dear)
No Slow, I'm not a troll. If you check my posts any troll-ish ones are directed only at you. And it's funny you mention the mirror - that's exactly what I'm doing.
Slow, you're too quick to 'give what you get' and you're too good at giving it. You provide large magnifications in return for small offenses.
Also remember, this is a Canadian BBS and the United States is a very large target. We've lived in the shadow of your country all our lives. That's bound to spawn some feeling that you obviously neither care to understand nor have any sensitivity for. I'm not whining - I wouldn't live in any other country on the planet - I'm just stating the facts and I'm hoping you'll get that. Think through the implications and maybe you'll see why there's the odd comment for free about the USA and why there's often such an outcry when you comment back. You're right - it's not always appropriate, but it is what it is.
Your first two sentences were merely parroting what I said about you earlier, so I'll take that as an admission on your part that I hit the nail on the head.
Fair enough.
As for the rest of your post, it just more of the same. To your credit, you do not deny that many of you can't help yourself but to criticize the US (that's a personality flaw, you know?), but you'll be damned if anyone can criticize Canada. That is a wonderful example of your collective lack of 'self'; who are you guys? You like to define yourself as who you are not: Americans. But that's not even close to being good enough. You have to, at some time, be proud of who you are, not of what you are not.
Until then, more rambling excuses will be par for the course in here.
Haven't read another thread. Just decided to venture in here today after a long absence from this board, so I cannot comment on it. (especially when I was not part of said lumping, my dear)
I didn't say you were. That was directed at others.
Anapeg
07-26-2009, 11:10 AM
We invented the Internet, so you are merely a guest here ;)
You know what? I never even thought of who invented "The NET", interesting. With that in mind are we not all visitors? The ownership you allude to would fall to either one or a defined group and perhaps we could all benefit from a refresher in manners and choosing our words better.
lynys
07-26-2009, 11:11 AM
Being different than yourself is reward enough, sir. I can look south of the border and see things which I admire, things which are very good. Also I can look south of our border and see things I abhor, things which are not good. I don't post the good nor the bad. I will reflect on more often than not a passing comment rather than the piece.
You, an American CHOOSES to spend all your free time on a Canadian site where Canadians exercise their inalienable right to *****, chew, whine and cry. We tear down the U.S., Briton, Canada, the weather, taxes, what the government does with taxes, etc.
You sir are a visitor in OUR land. With the education you boast you of all should realize this and learn to ignore or start your own BBS in Sault Mich. Imagine the fun you could have then, and NEVER need concern yourself over banishment ever again.
I don't think it is necessary to make him feel unwelcome on this BBS. I could have sworn that our city has always been referred to as part of "The Twin Saults" which in itself is supposed to show a unity with our neighbours to the south.
I get that all of you hate the way RWGR plays. I am almost positive there was always a kid you would sling mud with who you did not care for that much, yet they were always there, ready to fire when you least expected. RWGR is a pain in the ass, at times, and I am sure he can admit as much... ;)
While I don't always agree with his "persona" I wouldn't go so far as to try to banish him to an "American" BBS.
Anapeg
07-26-2009, 11:18 AM
I don't think it is necessary to make him feel unwelcome on this BBS. I could have sworn that our city has always been referred to as part of "The Twin Saults" which in itself is supposed to show a unity with our neighbours to the south.
I get that all of you hate the way RWGR plays. I am almost positive there was always a kid you would sling mud with who you did not care for that much, yet they were always there, ready to fire when you least expected. RWGR is a pain in the ass, at times, and I am sure he can admit as much... ;)
While I don't always agree with his "persona" I wouldn't go so far as to try to banish him to an "American" BBS.
I did not mean to make anyone feel unwelcome. Besides as long as his perceived attacks don't cast us in a totally horrid light and aren't totally unwarranted I do enjoy the fact that he makes his points. I was simply putting options out there for his comfort level.
lynys
07-26-2009, 11:22 AM
I did not mean to make anyone feel unwelcome. Besides as long as his perceived attacks don't cast us in a totally horrid light and aren't totally unwarranted I do enjoy the fact that he makes his points. I was simply putting options out there for his comfort level.
I only quoted your post because it was the first in a string. NoCasa was also part of it.
RWGR is gonna keep attacking, cause that is what he does. He gets a chuckle when you all get bent out of shape. I know that I can sometimes stir the pot for the same reason. I think it is time that people stop taking offense to his attacks (I know I have) and start looking at it from another point of view. ;)
Start thinking like RWGR, and you'll open yourself up to a whole new world of entertainment.
NewCasa
07-26-2009, 11:24 AM
I don't think it is necessary to make him feel unwelcome on this BBS. I could have sworn that our city has always been referred to as part of "The Twin Saults" which in itself is supposed to show a unity with our neighbours to the south.
I get that all of you hate the way RWGR plays. I am almost positive there was always a kid you would sling mud with who you did not care for that much, yet they were always there, ready to fire when you least expected. RWGR is a pain in the ass, at times, and I am sure he can admit as much... ;)
While I don't always agree with his "persona" I wouldn't go so far as to try to banish him to an "American" BBS.
Point taken lynys, however when you're a guest in someone's house you don't pee on their carpet.
lynys
07-26-2009, 11:29 AM
Point taken lynys, however when you're a guest in someone's house you don't pee on their carpet.
How did this BBS become "your house"? Yeah, yeah, it is originated in our city, but, you may notice the word used is Soo; last I checked we had two of those.
Unless you are the creator of said BBS, I don't think you can lay claim to it as being "yours" or for a more direct description, belonging to the "Canadian" Sault.
We are ALL guests on this BBS. I don't see Tom Stevenson (I believe he was one of the creators here) complaining.
Blunt
07-26-2009, 01:01 PM
Now, I think a very good case could be made that where there is Atheism, there is racism.
Hitler went after the Jews and others, for one example.
The Religious Views of Adolf Hitler (http://www.stephenjaygould.org/ctrl/quotes_hitler.html)
Pretty interesting stuff. Many quotes from his book Mein Kampf and public addresses as well. I expect he was pandering to a degree in his speeches, but he sure sounded like a very religious man; certainly well versed in Christian theology.
That being said, there's also a great deal of atheist sounding material attributed to Hitler as well. Which is probably of more value to Slow than say...
“I am now as before a Catholic and will always remain so.”
“Hence today I believe that I am acting in accordance with the will of the Almighty Creator: by defending myself against the Jew, I am fighting for the work of the Lord.”
Pretty interesting stuff. Many quotes from his book Mein Kampf and public addresses as well. I expect he was pandering to a degree in his speeches, but he sure sounded like a very religious man; certainly well versed in Christian theology.
.
So because Hitler claimed he was a Catholic, that meant he was?
Did he attend church? Did he abide by the dogma? Did he receive the Eucharist regularly? Go to confession? Abide by Rome?
No?
Hmmmm...
I know of loony people that claimed to be Superman...does that mean they were?
Blunt, you are reaching.
Blunt
07-26-2009, 10:02 PM
So because Hitler claimed he was a Catholic, that meant he was?
About as much as it does when anyone claims they're Catholic... Or as much as it means he was an Atheist when YOU claim he was...
Did he attend church? Did he abide by the dogma? Did he receive the Eucharist regularly? Go to confession? Abide by Rome?
Yes. Yes in his own way. Yes. Yes. Yes.
Blunt, you are reaching.
Not really. Hitler was baptized as Roman Catholic, attended monastery school, was a communicant and altar boy in the Catholic Church, and was never ex-communicated; even during the holocaust. Growing up, he dreamed of being a priest and held them in the highest regard.
The point is not to debate whether or not Hitler was a 'good' Christian, the point is that there's certainly a lot of evidence suggesting he wasn't an Atheist.
dancingqueen
07-27-2009, 01:33 AM
Now, I think a very good case could be made that where there is Atheism, there is racism.
Hitler went after the Jews and others, for one example.
And as for one of the largest and most well-known racist organizations in US history, the Ku Klux Klan, well ,they were Protestant, and they targeted Catholics along with African Americans.
you are not implying that Hitler was an atheist are you?
As for the rest. Thanks for your clarification, I get what you are getting at and am having a hard time disagreeing with you on that. Christianity actually is the most widely spread religion there is I believe, going from one corner of the Earth to the other... too bad many individuals have a different idea of Christianity and what it means.
edited to add: I see the Hitler was Catholic issue has already been addressed.
dancingqueen
07-27-2009, 01:37 AM
So because Hitler claimed he was a Catholic, that meant he was?
Did he attend church? Did he abide by the dogma? Did he receive the Eucharist regularly? Go to confession? Abide by Rome?
No?
Hmmmm...
I know of loony people that claimed to be Superman...does that mean they were?
Blunt, you are reaching.
actually he did Slow, unfortunately the societies understanding of morality and the Bible where different in those times and on that side of the world. but yes, he was catholic, and the things he allowed to happen had very much Catholic (by his interpretations) reasonings behind them.
dancingqueen
07-27-2009, 01:44 AM
on a side note, I think everyone needs to take a chill pill. I don't understand why everyone has such a problem talking with certain members... stop taking everything slow says so personally... Slow, stop being so antagonistic! geeze guys, we go nowhere when you do this :p (I know I have been guilty of it too but not on every thread) :beer:
actually he did Slow, unfortunately the societies understanding of morality and the Bible where different in those times and on that side of the world. but yes, he was catholic, and the things he allowed to happen had very much Catholic (by his interpretations) reasonings behind them.
You are trying to tell me Hitler attended mass regularly?
Ummm...got any proof??
on a side note, I think everyone needs to take a chill pill. I don't understand why everyone has such a problem talking with certain members... stop taking everything slow says so personally... Slow, stop being so antagonistic! geeze guys, we go nowhere when you do this :p (I know I have been guilty of it too but not on every thread) :beer:
Stating that Hitler was a good and practicing Catholic without any evidence whatsoever doesn't exactly move things along smoothly in here.
Blunt
07-27-2009, 12:09 PM
Stating that Hitler was a good and practicing Catholic without any evidence whatsoever doesn't exactly move things along smoothly in here.
Says the fellow stating Hitler was an atheist without any evidence whatsoever.
Blunt
07-29-2009, 09:03 AM
Got pretty quiet in here all of a sudden...
I bet Slow did some research, and had to go have a chat with his priest to deal with his newfound issues...
Got pretty quiet in here all of a sudden...
I bet Slow did some research, and had to go have a chat with his priest to deal with his newfound issues...
So, I'm both here too much and not enough...interesting.
Actually, I've been at the cabin, and will be returning tomorrow. Enjoying the summer, away from the computer.
You should try it sometime, Blunty ;)
Says the fellow stating Hitler was an atheist without any evidence whatsoever.
LOL!!!
What church did he attend?
"Third, many atheists angrily insisted that Hitler was not an atheist, indeed he was a lifelong Christian! (You learn something new every day.)
Here I discovered that the atheists were rummaging through various atheist websites that seem to have done their homework on Hitler. One letter noted that Hitler was “raised as a Roman Catholic.” Another quoted Hitler saying in a speech during the early 1930s that he was “doing the Lord’s work.” Another provided an excerpt of one of Hitler’s speeches praising Christ as a valiant opponent of the Jews. The atheist message was that Hitler was not one of them, he was one of us.
The poverty of the atheist argument becomes clear with a bit of examination. What does it prove to say that Hitler was raised Catholic? Stalin was raised in the Orthodox Church. Mao was raised as a Buddhist. Lots of people repudiate their religious upbringing. Hitler vehemently rejected the traditional Christianity in which he was raised. During the period of his ascent to power, he needed the support of the German people — mostly Christian, mostly Lutheran — and he occasionally used boilerplate rhetoric such as “I am doing the Lord’s work” to try and secure this. This rhetoric, it should be noted, is a commonplace rhetorical device among atheist writers. Nietzsche, for instance, regularly compared himself to Jesus, even titling one of his books Ecce Homo (“behold the man,” a biblical reference to Christ). But no intelligent reader of Nietzsche can doubt that he was a rabid atheist, as was Hitler. One should not confuse political opportunism with personal conviction. Not surprisingly, Hitler invoked Christ’s death at the hands of the Jews in order to solicit Christian support for his (secular and racial, not religious) anti-Semitic agenda.
Once Hitler and the Nazis came to power, however, they denounced Christianity and launched a ruthless drive to subdue and weaken traditional Christianity. Since 1937 the policies of Hitler’s government became openly and increasingly anti-religious. In particular, they repudiated what they perceived as the Christian values of equality, compassion and weakness and extolled the atheist notions of the Nietzschean superman and a new society based on the “will to power.” Hitler’s leading advisers, such as Goebbels, Heydrich and Bormann, were atheists who were savagely hostile to religion. Several of his associates reported that the Fuhrer’s personal views were deeply anti-Christian. Again, Hitler’s hostility to religion in general, and Christianity in particular, were not incidental to the violence that characterized his regime. They were part of the Nazi ideology — a secular ideology that deified race over creed — and they helped to justify the horrors of extermination and holocaust. Like Stalin and Mao, Hitler illustrates the point made by both Dostoyevsky and earlier John Locke: when God is excluded, then it is not surprising when morality itself is sacrificed in the process and chaos and horror is unleashed on the world. So it has been in our time, and all the elaborate evasions produced by today’s atheists cannot change what their anti-religious kinsmen did, cannot change the grim facts of history."
http://catholiceducation.org/articles/apologetics/ap0214.htm
Well ,that was easy!!
So, did you miss me, ladies???? ;) :)
NewCasa
07-29-2009, 09:02 PM
LOL!!!
What church did he attend?
It's common knowledge Slow: He attended Santa Sofia.
Bluesky
07-29-2009, 11:11 PM
I have not had time to double check this website:
http://answers.org/apologetics/hitquote.html
Was Hitler a Christian?
By John Baskette - but the information came from Marty Helgesen in a soc.religion.christian post.
The claim is sometimes made that Hitler was a Christian - a Roman Catholic until the day he died. In fact, Hitler rejected Christianity.
The book Hitler's Secret Conversations 1941-1944 published by Farrar, Straus and Young, Inc.first edition, 1953, contains definitive proof of Hitler's real views. The book was published in Britain under the title, _Hitler's Table Talk 1941-1944, which title was used for the Oxford University Press paperback edition in the United States.
All of these are quotes from Adolf Hitler:
Night of 11th-12th July, 1941:
National Socialism and religion cannot exist together.... The heaviest blow that ever struck humanity was the coming of Christianity. Bolshevism is Christianity's illegitimate child. Both are inventions of the Jew. The deliberate lie in the matter of religion was introduced into the world by Christianity.... Let it not be said that Christianity brought man the life of the soul, for that evolution was in the natural order of things. (p 6 & 7)
10th October, 1941, midday:
Christianity is a rebellion against natural law, a protest against nature. Taken to its logical extreme, Christianity would mean the systematic cultivation of the human failure. (p 43)
14th October, 1941, midday:
The best thing is to let Christianity die a natural death.... When understanding of the universe has become widespread... Christian doctrine will be convicted of absurdity.... Christianity has reached the peak of absurdity.... And that's why someday its structure will collapse.... ...the only way to get rid of Christianity is to allow it to die little by little.... Christianity the liar.... We'll see to it that the Churches cannot spread abroad teachings in conflict with the interests of the State. (p 49-52)
19th October, 1941, night:
The reason why the ancient world was so pure, light and serene was that it knew nothing of the two great scourges: the pox and Christianity.
21st October, 1941, midday:
Originally, Christianity was merely an incarnation of Bolshevism, the destroyer.... The decisive falsification of Jesus' doctrine was the work of St.Paul. He gave himself to this work... for the purposes of personal exploitation.... Didn't the world see, carried on right into the Middle Ages, the same old system of martyrs, tortures, ******s? Of old, it was in the name of Christianity. Today, it's in the name of Bolshevism. Yesterday the instigator was Saul: the instigator today, Mardochai. Saul was changed into St.Paul, and Mardochai into Karl Marx. By exterminating this pest, we shall do humanity a service of which our soldiers can have no idea. (p 63-65)
13th December, 1941, midnight:
Christianity is an invention of sick brains: one could imagine nothing more senseless, nor any more indecent way of turning the idea of the Godhead into a mockery.... .... When all is said, we have no reason to wish that the Italians and Spaniards should free themselves from the drug of Christianity. Let's be the only people who are immunised against the disease. (p 118 & 119)
14th December, 1941, midday:
Kerrl, with noblest of intentions, wanted to attempt a synthesis between National Socialism and Christianity. I don't believe the thing's possible, and I see the obstacle in Christianity itself.... Pure Christianity-- the Christianity of the catacombs-- is concerned with translating Christian doctrine into facts. It leads quite simply to the annihilation of mankind. It is merely whole-hearted Bolshevism, under a tinsel of metaphysics. (p 119 & 120)
9th April, 1942, dinner:
There is something very unhealthy about Christianity (p 339)
27th February, 1942, midday:
It would always be disagreeable for me to go down to posterity as a man who made concessions in this field. I realize that man, in his imperfection, can commit innumerable errors-- but to devote myself deliberately to errors, that is something I cannot do. I shall never come personally to terms with the Christian lie. Our epoch Uin the next 200 yearse will certainly see the end of the disease of Christianity.... My regret will have been that I couldn't... behold ." (p 278)
A reader asks,"Where did the quotes from Hitler's Secret Conversations come from? How do we know that they are accurate?"
Hitler's Secret Conversations is a translation of a document called the "Bormann-Vermerke" or Borrman endorsements. They are a collection of hand written notes made by Martin Bormann who was Hitler's personal secretary during the war. Bormann is known to have been an extraordinarily powerful figure in Nazi Germany and a notorious opponent of Christianity.
There is no real dispute regarding the authenticity of these notes. They are what Borrman wrote. They are published in the original German in Adolf Hitler, Monologe im Führerhauptquartier 1941-1944. published by Orbis Verlag, Hamburg, Approved Special Edition in 2000
http://nobeliefs.com/HitlerSources.htm
There is no real dispute regarding the authenticity of these notes. They are what Borrman wrote.
Apparently there is dispute in what Borrman wrote. And then in what Genoud translated.
dancingqueen
07-30-2009, 10:50 AM
well in either case, I should re-word my earlier post.Hitler had claimed himself to be Christian. Slow, It would not surprise me if a catholic website might want to disassociate a man like Hitler from their religion.
Do you know what religion he was? Otherwise, I would tend to go with what he claimed to be.
Dixie_Normous
07-30-2009, 02:53 PM
Once again, I have to say it's sad to see someone with such obvious intelligence fall prey to their constant need for reassurance.
The ability to google and quote web articles is considered intelligent? :p
How did this BBS become "your house"? Yeah, yeah, it is originated in our city, but, you may notice the word used is Soo; last I checked we had two of those.
Unless you are the creator of said BBS, I don't think you can lay claim to it as being "yours" or for a more direct description, belonging to the "Canadian" Sault.
The URL (web) extension for "Soonet" is .CA
That's what makes it Canadian. ;)
.com = Commercial
.ca = Canada
.us = United States
.mx = Mexico
.au = Australia
.uk = United Kingdom
etc etc
Bluesky
07-30-2009, 03:28 PM
Strange. That critique at the nobeliefs website calls Bormann an anti-Catholic and regards that as a motive of Bormann in representing Hitler as a non-believer. Yet an anti-Catholic would want to see Hitler associated with the Catholic church. And why would a good Catholic hire a right hand man who was rabidly anti-Catholic And anti-Christian? Hitler found it easy to send people to their deaths for disagreeing with him. I find that very strange.
I found THIS website, which refutes the nobeliefs article quite soundly.
http://www.bedfordgaol.com/walkersite8.html
I am sorry Skyblue, I am quite busy right now, I will look into what you have posted later.
I have never looked into this subject before, your posts are quite fascinating. There seems to be quite a bit of controversy on this subject throughout the net and I look forward to discussing this. I just didn't want you to think I had ignored you. I probably won't be able to look into this until next week.
As this is way off topic for this threads original concept of this thread, do you think that it should be moved to its own thread?
This illustrates the magnatude of the webpages involved in this.
http://www.news.com.au/technology/story/0,28348,25857420-5018992,00.html
Konig-OV
07-31-2009, 01:23 PM
The Roman Catholic Church may be one of the least racist institutions in the world. It is one of the world's largest charities, serving people of almost all races and creeds.
Link? Source?
Link? Source?
My pleasure!
http://www.soonet.ca/showthread.php?t=32511
:)
NewCasa
08-01-2009, 07:52 PM
My pleasure!
http://www.soonet.ca/showthread.php?t=32511
:)
Ahhhh! The perfection of circular logic. A thing of beauty.
NewCasa
08-01-2009, 08:09 PM
Nice try...but I win :)
Yup, you're right Slow - you win! Yippee.
What exactly is the prize again?
No prize. Me taking any pride is beating you guys would be like a prize fighter taking pride for beating up Pee Wee Herman
You source is Youtube? What about linking a credible source.
Jack Butler
08-02-2009, 08:40 AM
No prize. Me taking any pride is beating you guys would be like a prize fighter taking pride for beating up Pee Wee Herman
Why do you feel the need to say it?
Anyone who says "I win", over and over has got to be a loser...er the loser!
You source is Youtube? What about linking a credible source.
You Tube was not the source, but only the portal for the source.
It's okay...you'll learn such things some day :)
I would still like to see a credible source. Not a film propagated by a organization who is looking for attention.
"Catholic Relief Services is the international humanitarian agency of the Catholic community in the United States. The agency provides assistance to people in more than 100 countries and territories based on need, regardless of race, nationality or creed."
http://www.zoominfo.com/Industries/foundation/charitable-organizations-foundations/humanitarian-relief.htm
Was it DQ that accused the Catholic relief agencies of refusing treatment or services to anyone that wouldn't convert on the spot?
Not cool, DQ. You can't just make stuff up and hope it sticks. If I did that about homosexuals you'd be all up in arms.
And for you, T Pot...
"HEALTH CARE
The nonprofit health-care system includes 637 hospitals, accounting for 17% of all U.S. hospital admissions. The Church also runs 122 home health-care agencies and nearly 700 other service providers, including assisted living, adult day care, and senior housing. The hospitals alone have annual expenses of $65 billion and account for 5% of U.S. health-care spending.
CHARITIES
Catholic Charities USA consists of 1,400 agencies that run soup kitchens, temporary shelters, child care, and refugee resettlement. In 1999, Catholic Charities had collective revenues of $2.34 billion. Most of that comes from state and local governments and from program fees. The Church accounts for only about 12% of income."
http://www.businessweek.com/magazine/content/02_15/b3778004.htm
Konig-OV
08-04-2009, 12:00 PM
Did you say, largest in the world? So far you produced statistics for just the United States.
And the largest organizations in the world are in the U.S., so...
If you find a bigger one, let me know.
In the meantime, keep making sure you never give the Catholic Church any credit on anything.
Konig-OV
08-04-2009, 01:45 PM
I give them credit, don't get me wrong. I think it is great what they do. I am asking you to provide proof that they are the largest, from which you claim. Yet again I ask, Link? Source? Not just 1 film bragging about what they do, I would like to see comparision to other large contributors.
The numbers in the US alone make it the biggest in the world, then count in the same agencies worldwide...please, you are just stalling, because you do not want to give credit where credit is due.
Soundbear
08-17-2009, 03:13 AM
An amusing bit of trivia.
When Europeans first reached Japan, the Japanese found them almost unbearable because of their smell, since they rarely bathed.
I suspect that the religious indoctrination of the evils of the body had a hand in this cultural "standard" for Europeans. The Japanese have historically had a "disconnect" between bathing and sex.
dancingqueen
08-17-2009, 09:25 AM
Was it DQ that accused the Catholic relief agencies of refusing treatment or services to anyone that wouldn't convert on the spot?
Not cool, DQ. You can't just make stuff up and hope it sticks. If I did that about homosexuals you'd be all up in arms.
I don't believe those where my exact words...
I think there is "what they say they do"
and then there is "what they really do"
In my experience many groups that claim to help people regardless of religion or creed tend to be a little manipulative. Not that the religion teaches this, but because people think they are doing these people further good.
The intentions are good.
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