Huh???

[GenX]

"A federal policy that bans Canadians from listing Jerusalem, Israel, as their birthplace on their passports does not violate the Charter of Rights, the Federal Court of Appeal said Tuesday.

The ruling came in the context of a three-judge panel decision that the Canadian government was not required to allow 19-year-old Eliyahu Veffer, the son of a Toronto rabbi, to amend his passport to indicate that his birthplace, Jerusalem, was part of Israel."

LINK (http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=1184063441938&pagename=JPost%2FJPArticle%2FShowFull)

Let me read that part again..."A federal policy that bans Canadians from listing Jerusalem, Israel, as their birthplace on their passports"

Ummmm...

[adigirl]

Parrot, do you ever look at your own country with the same critical eye as you do other countries? I'm not tryin to deflect the topic, I'll read the article. I just never see you talk about anything negative about the US.

[GenX]

I don't care if this is Timbuktu we're talking about!!! Can someone explain this?

Oh, and as soon as you ask Hans the very same question you asked me, then I'll respond. Deal?

[adigirl]

LOL I have different conversations with him. He is proud of his heritage and he should be. But he is also very realistic. He is also very smart.

[GenX]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: adigirl</div><div class="ubbcode-body">LOL I have different conversations with him. He is proud of his heritage and he should be. But he is also very realistic. He is also very smart. </div></div>

You realize Hans has not once been critical of his country of origin since he has been here, right?

Now, why is that okay for him?

[adigirl]

What negative thing have you said about Belgium? I haven't read anything.

[GenX]

I'm not talking about me. Re-read.

[adigirl]

Oh...sorry I just assumed it was you...wonder why that was? lol

[GenX]

Care to answer?

[adigirl]

My guess is he probably thinks there is enough negative banter about Europe in general and maybe wants people to see some positives too. By people I mainly mean you hahaha

Besides, I am sure if it ruffles your feathers that would be a motivator as well.

[GenX]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">My guess is he probably thinks there is enough negative banter about Europe in general and maybe wants people to see some positives too. </div></div>

Interesting. That's the very same line of reasoning I use to explain why I don't post many articles that show the U.S. in a negative light.

So, it's okay for him, but not me?

[adigirl]

I never said that. You are assuming that is how I think

[The Berean]

Since Jerusalem is in disputed territory, apparently the USA has the same restrictions on their passports.

[Return of Too Many Daves]

Ha ha. Parrot flew into that one again!

Also Parrot would you actually engage in serious debate about Belgium. We've established you know it is in Europe, but do you know anything else about it (hang on is that the sound of someone accessing Wiki)? Actually it isn't what you don't know that is bad, it is what you don't want to know.

[GenX]

Dave, are you drunk? That made no sense.

Conkat, how did a discussion about Canada's law saying you cannot claim Jerusalem as a birth place (which none of you Canadians knew about until now)turn into a discussion about certain restrictions on U.S. passports? This is like Dave, when it became all too apparent he had never known a thing about the European Arrest Warrant until I brought it up.

On the positive, side, I'm teaching you guys a few things about your countries. /ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif

What say we figure out what this Jerusalem-thing is all about as far as Canadian passports are concerned before jumping into a discussion on U.S. passports?

[Westender 3]

/ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/cry.gif /ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/cry.gif /ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/cry.gif

What a suck you are.Grow a pair already.


I thought you rightwingers were supposed to be manly men.

[GenX]

This thread certainly has the homegrown boys in a tizzy.

Come now, you spend all your time discussing the U.S. That must mean you know everything about your country.

Anyone care to discuss this? Educate me on it? Educate yourselves on it, maybe?

[adigirl]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Speedy the Parrot</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

What say we figure out what this Jerusalem-thing is all about as far as Canadian passports are concerned before jumping into a discussion on U.S. passports?

</div></div>

They have the same issue so why not discuss them together? What does it matter? You have control issues.

[GenX]

Why don't you start a thread on US passport issues?

Don't you find it interesting you guys are doing everything you can to avoid discussing this issue?

Why would that be?

[Hans]

I will provide a complete answer as to why Canada made that decision, but only after Speedy explains in detail what the following is :
Jerusalem Embassy Act of 1995 (enacted by the Senate and House of Representatives of the United States of America in Congress assembled)

[GenX]

Start your own thread /ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/lol.gif

You guys accuse me of avoiding issues about the U.S....look at this thread!! This many posts in, and all you guys have done is try to avoid the issue!

THIS is quickly turning into one of my favorite threads ever.

We'll see how many pages of denial and obfuscation you guys can hit.

[GenX]

I know, I know...the pizza is at the door.

[Hans]

Sure, I will explain this to you : Jerusalem is a disputed city, and there's a UN resolution with regards to this issue.
Because of that, countries do not have an embassy in Jerusalem itself, but rather on the surrounding outskirts.
However, the US Congress and House has voted on a bill to return the location of the US embassy to Jerusalem. This was passed in 1995, but both Bush and Clinton have used their presidential powers to actually put the bill into reality.

Because of all of the above minus the US issue, Canada has decided not to allow it.

[GenX]

Well, Hans’ you’re close. But considering the amount of time you had to Google and Wikipedia this, you’re still off in some aspects.

Yes, Jerusalem is a disputed city. The fact the U.S. will not build a permanent diplomatic headquarters there is somewhat related to this story, but not to the degree you’d like.

Not building a permanent embassy and not allowing you to put your birthplace on your passport are quite different things. Can a human right’s violation come from the fact the U.S. embassy is not in Jerusalem? Of course not. Can a human right’s violation come form the fact Canada will not allow its citizens to put “Jerusalem” as their place of birth on passports? Certainly a case can be made this is a violation of human’s rights.

The Kashmir province between India, ****stan, and China is disputed territory, with each side claiming rightful ownership of the area. Does the Canadian government disallow anyone from this disputed area to designate it as their place of birth? No, it does not.

A contradiction not easily explained? I think so.

[Hans]

Like I said, the key to this is the UN resolution. Canada seems willing to abide by the principles the UN was build on.
Delving some deeper into this, one could also pose the question of what other countries would do when someone presented a passport that lists Jerusalem, Israel as birth place.
I think in the end, Canada is doing what it believes is best for it's Citizens and their safety and ease of travel.

[GenX]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Delving some deeper into this, one could also pose the question of what other countries would do when someone presented a passport that lists Jerusalem, Israel as birth place. </div></div>

Let's find out. Is Canada a pariah here?

[Hans]

Just wondering if a border guard in let's say Jordan could deny you entry if you listed Jerusalem, Israel as birth place.

[GenX]

We should find out.

For the time being I'm labeling Canada an international pariah that has no good reason, other than thinly-veiled anti-Semitism, for its current policy concerning Jerusalem and passports.

Prove me wrong!

[Hans]

How many other countries refuse to hand out passports that list Jerusalem, Israel as birth place?

[Hans]

I am so excited, I can not wait on a reply from Speedy.
so here is the proof Canada is not alone on this "issue".

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/pages/rosne...listSrc=Y&art=1 (http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/pages/rosnerBlog.jhtml?itemNo=686112&contrassID=25&subContrassID=0&sbSubContrassID=1&listSrc=Y&art=1)

"The U.S. administration, as a matter of policy, is not willing to confirm that U.S. citizens who were born in Jerusalem were indeed born in Israel because, as was argued by the state's representative in court, the issue is "the subject of profound dispute" and Israel's claim to sovereignty over the city has never been decided."
"Two facts bear mentioning: One, the U.S. Embassy is located in Tel Aviv; and two, the passport of a U.S. citizen who is born in Jerusalem will not include the word "Israel," according to State Department regulations behind the actions of the consular officials."

[The Berean]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Hans</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I am so excited, I can not wait on a reply from Speedy.
so here is the proof Canada is not alone on this "issue".

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/pages/rosne...listSrc=Y&art=1 (http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/pages/rosnerBlog.jhtml?itemNo=686112&contrassID=25&subContrassID=0&sbSubContrassID=1&listSrc=Y&art=1)

"The U.S. administration, as a matter of policy, is not willing to confirm that U.S. citizens who were born in Jerusalem were indeed born in Israel because, as was argued by the state's representative in court, the issue is "the subject of profound dispute" and Israel's claim to sovereignty over the city has never been decided."
"Two facts bear mentioning: One, the U.S. Embassy is located in Tel Aviv; and two, the passport of a U.S. citizen who is born in Jerusalem will not include the word "Israel," according to State Department regulations behind the actions of the consular officials." </div></div>

So should we characterize the US as "an international pariah that has no good reason, other than thinly-veiled anti-Semitism, for its current policy concerning Jerusalem and passports." ???

No, we're bigger than that.

[GenX]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I am so excited, I can not wait on a reply from Speedy.
so here is the proof Canada is not alone on this "issue". </div></div>

Umm, Hans' all your post did was support my contention /ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/lol.gif

Read the link again. The U.S. story is about the U.S. wanting the place of birth to be Jerusalem, not simply "Israel".

The exact opposite of the Canadian story /ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/lol.gif

Thanks, Hans!! /ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/wavey.gif

[Madmax]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: adigirl</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Parrot, do you ever look at your own country with the same critical eye as you do other countries? I'm not tryin to deflect the topic, I'll read the article. I just never see you talk about anything negative about the US.</div></div>

That is because the USA sucks arse so much that all that poop they suck and blow out their ears and news media programs gets swallowed up into the american publics minds and taints those people over there forever and ever, no wonder we have Canadians amongst others being killed by friendly fire by the USA troophood.

[The Berean]

"The exact opposite of the Canadian story".

Oh.

[The Berean]

"...parochial, insular, prejudiced and frightened .."

TMD had it right.

[Hans]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Speedy the Parrot</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I am so excited, I can not wait on a reply from Speedy.
so here is the proof Canada is not alone on this "issue". </div></div>

Umm, Hans' all your post did was support my contention /ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/lol.gif

Read the link again. The U.S. story is about the U.S. wanting the place of birth to be Jerusalem, not simply "Israel".

The exact opposite of the Canadian story /ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/lol.gif

Thanks, Hans!! /ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/wavey.gif </div></div>

What are you talking about? The Canadian was fighting to have his birthplace listed as Jerusalem, Israel.

The US refuses to list Jerusalem, Israel as bithplace for US citizens born in Jerusalem.

Explain to me where the difference is???

[adigirl]

He will have a hard time doing that because the difference is somewhere in that huge empty space in his head.

[darryl smith]

Heres one for Hans. Why have the european Nato members not been helping in Afghanistan? They have recently been chastized for their lack luster performance in comparison to the Canadian and British efforts, so why cant they abide by the decisions they voted for within Nato.

Or is it that the Europeans only want to be in Nato when they need this side of the Atlantic to come save their asses when their Liberal appeasment attitudes allow radicals to try and take over the planet!

[Hans]

Maybe you should read up on the NATO before you post? As you can see, European countries are leading most NATO actions in Afghanistan. In fact, the NATO took over in the South of Afghanistan from the US led coalition...


On 16 April 2003 NATO agreed to take command of the International Security Assistance Force (ISAF) in Afghanistan. The decision came at the request of Germany and the Netherlands, the two nations leading ISAF at the time of the agreement, and all 19 NATO ambassadors approved it unanimously. The handover of control to NATO took place on 11 August, and marked the first time in NATO’s history that it took charge of a mission outside the north Atlantic area. Canada had originally been slated to take over ISAF by itself on that date.

In January 2004, NATO appointed Minister Hikmet Çetin, of Turkey, as the Senior Civilian Representative (SCR) in Afghanistan. Minister Cetin is primarily responsible for advancing the political-military aspects of the Alliance in Afghanistan.

On 31 July 2006, a NATO-led force, made up mostly of troops from Canada, Great Britain, Turkey and the Netherlands, took over military operations in the south of Afghanistan from a U.S.-led anti-terrorism coalition.