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Return of Too Many Daves
07-10-2007, 05:31 PM
Post your thoughts on Belgium here.

Return of Too Many Daves
07-10-2007, 05:42 PM
Okay, I'll start.

Hoegaarden white beer is horrible, but Hoegaarden Verboden Vrucht is the best beer in the whole world.

GenX
07-10-2007, 05:51 PM
Belgium is a European country that has had little impact on world history or contemporary world affairs.

It’s a non-descript country in an increasingly unimportant and non-descript continent.

Hans
07-10-2007, 06:28 PM
Speedy never fails to amaze me. Care to explain some WWI facts? (The first big one).

GenX
07-10-2007, 06:29 PM
Hans, I was being facetious. I wanted to see if you went totally beserk.

You actually handled it quite well.

Hans
07-10-2007, 06:29 PM
Hoegaarden is always good, you just have to know the secret of the glass.

GenX
07-10-2007, 06:31 PM
You know your country is of the utmost importance in international affairs when beer is the topic talked about on the only thread ever in existence about your country.

(Hmmm...this could be deciphered two ways...hmmm...)

Hans
07-10-2007, 06:34 PM
You forgot chocolate.

Hans
07-10-2007, 06:44 PM
And NATO headquarters.

Return of Too Many Daves
07-10-2007, 06:48 PM
Well US beer is terrible. They deserve to be bombed for it, Canada too actually.

Hans
07-10-2007, 06:51 PM
And Seat of the European Union.

adigirl
07-10-2007, 06:52 PM
Miller lite is the worst!!! I love Corona with lime.

GenX
07-10-2007, 07:03 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Hans</div><div class="ubbcode-body">And Seat of the European Union. </div></div>

I wouldn't brag about that.

GenX
07-10-2007, 07:04 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Return of Too Many Daves</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Well US beer is terrible. They deserve to be bombed for it, Canada too actually. </div></div>

There must be some bad qualities about English beer too, however. How does one explain the over-abundance of bad teeth in the U.K.?

And that is a dead-serious question.

Hans
07-10-2007, 07:06 PM
You also forgot fully subsidized education, including Catholic branch education.

Return of Too Many Daves
07-10-2007, 07:09 PM
To Speedy,

We just aren't that bothered really. Not as vain. We actually find US teeth quite scary. They are only teeth. You should know better than to trade in stereotypes. What about all the fat people in the US?

adigirl
07-10-2007, 07:13 PM
I loved the English pubs! Mmmmmmmmm guiness and wood****** cider. Never had a drink there that wasn't good. Fantasticly fun people.

Hans
07-10-2007, 07:17 PM
And Belgian fries.

GenX
07-10-2007, 09:15 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Hans</div><div class="ubbcode-body">You also forgot fully subsidized education, including Catholic branch education. </div></div>

Errr...do you think each school kid in the U.S. is charged $5.50 at the door each morning he enters school to pay for his schooling?

GenX
07-10-2007, 09:38 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Return of Too Many Daves</div><div class="ubbcode-body">To Speedy,

We just aren't that bothered really. Not as vain. We actually find US teeth quite scary. They are only teeth. You should know better than to trade in stereotypes. What about all the fat people in the US? </div></div>

Bingo! I told an acquaintance when I wrote the comment that you would come back with something about U.S. people being "fat"...true to form!! /ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/high5.gif She'll love it when I tell her later on the phone /ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/lol.gif

And it's really not about vanity as much as it's about trying to look like we have progressed passed Cro-Magnon Man as far as appearance is concerned. And, let's be brutally honest here, the Brits (my cousins so it pains me to say it) have some god-awful choppers! I mean, it must be a dentist's dream to work over there! There can't be five straight teeth between the lot of you!

Now, as far as American obesity, you are correct, there is too much of it here. Much of that has to do with the fact that because the U.S. is the most successful nation in the history of mankind it has become much too easy to sit back and rest on the hard work, sweat, and accomplishments of others, both past and contemporary. This has led to laziness and slothfulness in a percentage of our people. Also, thanks primarily to the Democratic Party, entire generations of people have become solely reliant on government largesse. As such, they have little incentive or drive. This spills over into their life of activity, or lack thereof. You see, the Democrats have created a ‘mini-Europe’ in parts of the U.S. In essence, they have created a class of people with little drive, minimal initiative, and a growing dependency on government. Thankfully, these people remain a minority of the population.

Now, turning our attention to the true north, flabby and weak:

"According to the 2004 CCHS, 23.1% of Canadians aged 18 or older, an estimated 5.5 million adults, had a body mass index (BMI) of 30 or more, indicating that they were obese (Table 1) (see What is BMI?). This is significantly higher than estimates derived from self-reported data collected in 2003, which yield an obesity rate of 15.2% (see Methodology makes a difference). Another 8.6 million, or 36.1%, were overweight."

LINK (http://www.statcan.ca/english/research/82-620-MIE/2005001/articles/adults/aobesity.htm)

A very worthwhile site created by the government of Canada. The gist of the site: French fries covered with gravy and a 'two-four' every night hasn't exactly been shrinking the Canadian waist size over the last few decades.

Also of great interest is the fact Canadian stats on obesity only came from what people reported of their own weight and height. Do you really think Johnny Canuck, who is in reality 5'10", 265 lbs really reported he was such? Of course not; he reported he was 6'2", 205 lbs. Ever since 2004 Statscan has decided they better do they surveying, and not rely on what people told them they weighed.

So, another cherished Canadian myth ("we're skinny, Americans are fat") is thrown into the ash heap of history, because all along the Canadian government wasn't keeping official stats of their citizens' weight. They relied on people to tell them what they weighed.

Not anymore!!! Time to hit the treadmill, Canada!

And...how 'bout the jolly, ol' U.K.??

"About 46% of men in England and 32% of women are overweight"...according to a U.K. website. LINK (http://www.annecollins.com/obesity/uk-obesity-statistics.htm)

Hmmmm...looks like even with all those bad choppers our U.K. cousins aren't afraid to stop by a McDonald's once or twice...a day.

/ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/wink.gif

Do enjoy!! /ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif

Hans
07-11-2007, 06:20 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Speedy the Parrot</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Hans</div><div class="ubbcode-body">You also forgot fully subsidized education, including Catholic branch education. </div></div>

Errr...do you think each school kid in the U.S. is charged $5.50 at the door each morning he enters school to pay for his schooling? </div></div>

So when you go to a Catholic university it's totally free?

KDawg
07-11-2007, 09:32 AM
Caffrey's is excellent beer. Yes, it's Irish, but they must serve it in Belgium somewhere.

GenX
07-11-2007, 10:42 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Hans</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Speedy the Parrot</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Hans</div><div class="ubbcode-body">You also forgot fully subsidized education, including Catholic branch education. </div></div>

Errr...do you think each school kid in the U.S. is charged $5.50 at the door each morning he enters school to pay for his schooling? </div></div>

So when you go to a Catholic university it's totally free? </div></div>

It can be, depending on your financial situation. But it is so through private beneficence and other sources, NOT the government.

Seems Belgium has no separation of church and state.

Dave, is this worrisome to you?

Hans
07-11-2007, 10:54 AM
This has nothing to do with separation of church and state, but in the believe that education should be free for all citizens of a country.

GenX
07-11-2007, 11:00 AM
Hans, when the government subsidizes a Catholic school, there is indeed a separation of church and state issue.

If George W. Bush signed a bill today that made the U.S. government pay for all Catholic education in the U.S. today would you stand up and applaud him?

Hans
07-11-2007, 11:26 AM
Yes I would, but under the condition that all education is paid for by the government, not just the Catholic branches.

Return of Too Many Daves
07-11-2007, 11:26 AM
Speedy

I do find it worrisome, and also in the UK. I hate "faith" schools.

I could write pages on what is wrong with the UK, but I doubt anybody would be interested.

For a start, the Royals, the church of England, the house of Lords, the lack of proportional representation in our electoral system, the influence of the EU, the influence of Welsh and Scottish members of parliament on English issues, the scanadalous treatment of civil servants. Oh yes and the bloody weather.

adigirl
07-11-2007, 12:33 PM
I wish Canada had the same educational plan as Belgium. Hans has three degrees and owed nothing when he graduated. I have two degrees and we had to give up our first born to the government.

GenX
07-11-2007, 05:21 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: adigirl</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I wish Canada had the same educational plan as Belgium. Hans has three degrees and owed nothing when he graduated. I have two degrees and we had to give up our first born to the government. </div></div>

We would all like that. I'm not even finished with my Master's yet, and would be thrilled if it was only my first-born I owed.

What it comes down to is sheer numbers. Belgium has 10 million people; Canada 33 million. The cost becomes too prohibitive once you get past a certain population number.

There are 2 million more people in all of Belgium than there is in New York City alone. It is much easier for a country of 10 million to provide for free education than it is for a country of 33 million, let alone 300 million.

Return of Too Many Daves
07-11-2007, 06:36 PM
What's your masters in Speedy? Is it by research?

Hans
07-12-2007, 06:13 AM
And now Speedy, look at how much money Belgium each year uses in their budget, and compare it to the budget the US has each year.
Then do the math, and tell me how much it is per person in each country.
I did not do the math (yet), but I bet it's less in Belgium then it is in the US, and yet Belgium has free education and the US has not.

GenX
07-14-2007, 10:57 AM
Hans, I doubt anyone will come to your aid on this one. You're just being obnoxious now.

This isn't even debatable. To even assume a country of ten million is no different than a country of three hundred million is beyond ridiculous.

Hans
07-14-2007, 02:56 PM
Speedy : what's the US education budget per US person, and what's the Belgian education budget per person?
And this has nothing to do with anything else besides a budget.

GenX
07-14-2007, 05:40 PM
Each state is different.

In the U.S., school budgets are made up primarily of state funds, about 70%, with federal money making up about another 25%, and local the final 5%.

So there is no real comparison with how Belgium does it. Most states in the U.S. are bigger than Belgium, population-wise.

Also, the U.S. has always had a history of wanting to keep the federal government out of education, as it has always been felt that the best educational decisions are made at a local level, as each school district knows what its needs are, not bureaucrats in Washington.

Totally different situation than in Belgium.

Apples and oranges, Hans.

Hans
07-14-2007, 09:13 PM
But what are the numbers Speedy?

The Belgian numbers. http://www.ond.vlaanderen.be/onderwijsstatistieken/2005-2006/jb0506/jb0506-5.indd.pdf

Hopefully you can understand the language, I could not locate the document in English.

Hans
07-14-2007, 09:25 PM
I just realized you will have trouble understanding the information. It comes down to a spending of 8.384.336.000 Euro (Page 5). And that's for the Flemish part of Belgium only, the other parts have their own budget.

GenX
07-14-2007, 11:56 PM
http://www.assuredproduce.co.uk/resources/000/149/263/apples_main.jpg

http://www.germes-online.com/direct/dbimage/50319396/Fresh_Oranges.jpg

Hans
07-15-2007, 12:02 AM
I suppose I could post of picture of an Ostrich, but I don't feel like spending that much time on a reply.

adigirl
07-15-2007, 08:05 AM
Speedy, I think Hans has a good point. It is about a budget. It is about priorities within a society as well. The US and Canada do not have education as a priority. They never have.

The Berean
07-15-2007, 08:55 AM
Which they are now paying for, as jobs go begging for educated bodies to fill them.

GenX
07-15-2007, 11:04 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: adigirl</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Speedy, I think Hans has a good point. It is about a budget. It is about priorities within a society as well. The US and Canada do not have education as a priority. They never have. </div></div>

Then why do people from all over the world come here to attend American universities? Are they drawn to the fact we do not take education seriously?

adigirl
07-15-2007, 11:11 AM
The US and Canadian governments do not prioritize education in their budgets.

GenX
07-15-2007, 11:12 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Hans</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I suppose I could post of picture of an Ostrich, but I don't feel like spending that much time on a reply. </div></div>

Hans, research the subject! Find out what specialists say.

I'm not going by what I think, it's what the consensus is.

Americans CHOOSE to keep the federal government out of education as much as possible. It all stems from the inborn distrust this country has always had of too close of a relationship between a central power and local decisions. It stems from what our forefathers saw in Europe, and a big reason why they left Europe.




Rank Countries Amount (top to bottom)
#1 Switzerland: $9,348.00 per student
#2 Austria: $8,163.00 per student
#3 United States: $7,764.00 per student
#4 Norway: $7,343.00 per student
#5 Denmark: $7,200.00 per student
#6 France: $6,605.00 per student
#7 Italy: $6,458.00 per student
#8 Germany: $6,209.00 per student
#9 Japan: $5,890.00 per student
#10 Australia: $5,830.00 per student
#11 Sweden: $5,648.00 per student
#12 Netherlands: $5,304.00 per student
#13 United Kingdom: $5,230.00 per student
#14 Israel: $5,115.00 per student
#15 Portugal: $4,636.00 per student
#16 Spain: $4,274.00 per student
#17 Ireland: $3,934.00 per student
#18 Greece: $3,287.00 per student
#19 Czech Republic: $3,182.00 per student
#20 Hungary: $2,140.00 per student
#21 Thailand: $1,177.00 per student

LINK (http://www.nationmaster.com/red/graph/edu_spe_per_sec_sch_stu-spending-per-secondary-school-student&b_map=1)


Where is Belgium???

27th place: LINK (http://www.nationmaster.com/country/be-belgium/edu-education)

Canada ranks 50th.

adigirl
07-15-2007, 11:45 AM
If you look at bottom rankings, the us has education in most bottom rankings starting at the very bottom.
Last, 3, 4, 6.

Belgiums bottom rankings do not begin until 4th last.
4 & 5 only.

Canada 2, 5, 6th.

Top rankings with education:
US 1, 3, 4, 5
Belgium 1, 2, 3, 4, 5
Canada 1, 2, 3, 4, 5

Very interesting. All have strengths and needs.

Hans
07-15-2007, 12:36 PM
Speedy Speedy, it's funny to see how you keep thinking there's a separation between local and central governments. In reality, there is no such thing.
But you know what's the biggest problem with US politics? The fact that you only have 2 parties that matter.

Hans
07-15-2007, 12:39 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ConKat</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Which they are now paying for, as jobs go begging for educated bodies to fill them. </div></div>

That is correct. There's an influx of foreign skilled workers because the vacancies can not be filled by locally trained people. It's getting to a point where the industry is asking the government to speed up the processes of recognizing foreign obtained qualifications.

Hans
07-15-2007, 12:43 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Speedy the Parrot</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Hans</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I suppose I could post of picture of an Ostrich, but I don't feel like spending that much time on a reply. </div></div>

Hans, research the subject! Find out what specialists say.

I'm not going by what I think, it's what the consensus is.

Americans CHOOSE to keep the federal government out of education as much as possible. It all stems from the inborn distrust this country has always had of too close of a relationship between a central power and local decisions. It stems from what our forefathers saw in Europe, and a big reason why they left Europe.




Rank Countries Amount (top to bottom)
#1 Switzerland: $9,348.00 per student
#2 Austria: $8,163.00 per student
#3 United States: $7,764.00 per student
#4 Norway: $7,343.00 per student
#5 Denmark: $7,200.00 per student
#6 France: $6,605.00 per student
#7 Italy: $6,458.00 per student
#8 Germany: $6,209.00 per student
#9 Japan: $5,890.00 per student
#10 Australia: $5,830.00 per student
#11 Sweden: $5,648.00 per student
#12 Netherlands: $5,304.00 per student
#13 United Kingdom: $5,230.00 per student
#14 Israel: $5,115.00 per student
#15 Portugal: $4,636.00 per student
#16 Spain: $4,274.00 per student
#17 Ireland: $3,934.00 per student
#18 Greece: $3,287.00 per student
#19 Czech Republic: $3,182.00 per student
#20 Hungary: $2,140.00 per student
#21 Thailand: $1,177.00 per student

LINK (http://www.nationmaster.com/red/graph/edu_spe_per_sec_sch_stu-spending-per-secondary-school-student&b_map=1)


Where is Belgium???

27th place: LINK (http://www.nationmaster.com/country/be-belgium/edu-education)

Canada ranks 50th. </div></div>

Very nice. Now explain to me why you have to spend and arm and a leg to pay for your education, and I had to pay absolutely nothing.

KDawg
07-15-2007, 03:22 PM
To use spending per student as any kind of criteria in measuring success is absolutely ridiculous. We all know how efficient government bureaucrats are at spending taxpayer dollars. /ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/crazy.gif

Hans
07-15-2007, 05:36 PM
Ah, that explains the failure of the US military in Iraq then. They will be back in early 2008 by the looks of it.

Koss
07-15-2007, 10:46 PM
uh you guys will believe anything won't you. Belgium... like really.

http://zapatopi.net/belgium/

GenX
07-15-2007, 11:05 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Hans</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Ah, that explains the failure of the US military in Iraq then. They will be back in early 2008 by the looks of it.
</div></div>

/ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/lol.gif /ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/lol.gif

Is someone just a wee little bit mad he was proven so spectacularly wrong???? /ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/cry.gif /ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/rofl.gif

Hans
07-16-2007, 06:13 AM
No, I was replying to the person who actually has proven your posting to be of little effect. Just remember, Iraq is a great victory.

GenX
07-16-2007, 11:42 AM
I'll remember that as soon as you remember Europe is an effectual world leader, and not the cause of two of the bloodiest wars in human history.

I've never quite seen you so upset, Hans. Is it because I proved you wrong on such elementary information about your own country?

I'm sorry, I'll play nice next time and use only half my brain. /ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif

adigirl
07-16-2007, 11:58 AM
He isn't upset at all. It is amazing how you assume so much. lol

Hans
07-16-2007, 04:21 PM
Wrong on what? I paid nothing for my schooling, you paid a lot for yours. There's no wrong or right in that.

I heard this morning on the radio that the tuition fees for LSU are going up for next year, and many others are following suit. As an explanation they said it was due to reduced federal funding.
Which is completely in line with what you told me the other day, about not liking government influence with local affairs.
If you have children, you will just have to dig deeper in your pockets. It's a small price to pay for less government influence, I guess.