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NewCasa
11-03-2009, 02:18 PM
So, given the current state of the economy, would anyone be in favour of a re-implementation of Rae Days? Just curious how people feel, not making the suggestion necessarily:


Description
The Social Contract refers to a 1993 initiative of the provincial Ontario New Democratic Party government of Bob Rae to impose austerity measures on civil service. The plan imposed a wage freeze and mandatory unpaid days of leave for civil servants, which became known as Rae Days.

History
Ontario in the 1990s was in the worst economic recession since the Great Depression, with a 1993 deficit of $12 billion annually. When it appeared as though it would soon grow to $17 billion, the social-democratic NDP was forced to abandon its left-wing platform and shift to right of the political spectrum.

Rae requested $2 billion in wage cuts within the civil service, and asked the public sector unions to work together with the government to implement the cuts. When Ontario's two largest unions, the Ontario Public Service Employees Union (OPSEU) and the Canadian Union of Public Employees (CUPE), both boycotted the talks, the government decided to enact the initiative unilaterally.

The Social Contract
The initiative was mainly based around a forced twelve days of unpaid leave for all civil service workers, including (but not limited to) teachers, nurses, and accountants. The unpaid days off quickly became known as Rae Days and are probably the best known aspect of the policy. The measure did exclude workers who earned less than $30,000 annually.

The Social Contract also re-opened collective bargaining agreements of all public unions, and froze the wages of all civil workers.

Results
The initiative was incredibly unpopular, and the labour-allied NDP lost a majority of its union support, including Buzz Hargrove and the Canadian Auto Workers Union. Support for the party fell to 6 per cent, and contributed greatly to the NDP's defeat in the 1995 election to the Progressive Conservatives. The NDP was reduced from a majority to a third party, a position which, as of the 2007 election, they have not been able to recover from.

Rae Days were, however, successful in their original aims. The government saved $1.95 billion, and prevented public employee layoffs.

The Social Contract affected Rae during his 2006 run for leadership of the Liberal Party of Canada. A leaked Conservative memo contained information from strategists arguing that, as Rae Days could be made a campaign issue, Rae would be the easiest candidate to beat in an election.

dancingqueen
11-03-2009, 04:10 PM
People don't want to make sacrifices if they, themselves will suffer.... I'll bet dollars to doughnuts though that those same people would support it if it did not affect them....

Anapeg
11-03-2009, 04:13 PM
People don't want to make sacrifices if they, themselves will suffer.... I'll bet dollars to doughnuts though that those same people would support it if it did not affect them....

I worked for government back then and welcomed the idea and would again. I was paid well enough that the prospect of and extra day off was attractive to me.

dancingqueen
11-03-2009, 04:19 PM
They say money can't buy happiness...
I disagree, it can, it's just that it's short lived.
Taking a nice leisurely stroll through the mall, or spending time with family... that's not short lived.

Anapeg
11-03-2009, 04:22 PM
They say money can't buy happiness...
I disagree, it can, it's just that it's short lived.
Taking a nice leisurely stroll through the mall, or spending time with family... that's not short lived.

You sir, are right. Money can not buy happiness BUT it does allow you to look for it in nicer places.

NewCasa
11-03-2009, 04:33 PM
You sir, are right. Money can not buy happiness BUT it does allow you to look for it in nicer places.

I sell my happiness every time I get up for work in the morning. So who's buying it? ;)

Anapeg
11-03-2009, 04:41 PM
I sell my happiness every time I get up for work in the morning. So who's buying it? ;)

Is that an auctioneer I hear?

NewCasa
11-03-2009, 05:11 PM
Is that an auctioneer I hear?

Yup - that's how it works. We rent our time to the highest bidder and a good chunk of our happiness goes with it. I just figure anything that can be sold can also be bought so obviously then happiness can be bought.

Hmm...come to think of it - maybe happiness can only be rented.....

Anapeg
11-03-2009, 05:13 PM
Yup - that's how it works. We rent our time to the highest bidder and a good chunk of our happiness goes with it. I just figure anything that can be sold can also be bought so obviously then happiness can be bought.

Hmm...come to think of it - maybe happiness can only be rented.....

Bought! My sister could be!

NewCasa
11-03-2009, 05:15 PM
Bought! My sister could be!

Meester! Meester!! You want to buy my seester??

Anapeg
11-03-2009, 05:15 PM
Meester! Meester!! You want to buy my seester??

20 Pesos!

NewCasa
11-03-2009, 05:16 PM
20 Pesos!

Does she come with.........CASTINADAS?

Anapeg
11-03-2009, 05:17 PM
Does she come with.........CASTINADAS?

NO! But beeeeeg maracas.

kitca
11-03-2009, 05:18 PM
well, i originally thought the idealogy of rae days made sense. however, it was left to the various government places to impliment it. i did not mind the prospect of working a day less and having a day less pay at that time, it beat mass layoffs.

however, my employeer, in all its greed decided to make the middle workers pay the price and cut us each a day a week - but we still had to work 5 days a week, just shorter days. since there were enough of us middle people management did not need to make any cuts to themselves!!! dirty rotton bast*rds. what the really did by cutting our hours was cut the services to the very people we were there to care for.

then, since we all worked 5 days a week just shorter days, we were expected to do our regular jobs that we had been doing at 40 hours now at 30 hours. it was totally insane. i am bitter.

i still think the idea was interesting, however letting dirty greedy managment steal from the poor and give to themselves was a big mistake.

(please disreguard any and all spelling mistakes)

Hans
11-03-2009, 06:25 PM
I believe that those companies who post the largest profits should also pay the largest taxes and not be allowed to be flagged out to avoid taxes.

I think that rule would solve a lot of the problems with the current system.

NewCasa
11-03-2009, 06:40 PM
well, i originally thought the idealogy of rae days made sense. however, it was left to the various government places to impliment it. i did not mind the prospect of working a day less and having a day less pay at that time, it beat mass layoffs.

however, my employeer, in all its greed decided to make the middle workers pay the price and cut us each a day a week - but we still had to work 5 days a week, just shorter days. since there were enough of us middle people management did not need to make any cuts to themselves!!! dirty rotton bast*rds. what the really did by cutting our hours was cut the services to the very people we were there to care for.

then, since we all worked 5 days a week just shorter days, we were expected to do our regular jobs that we had been doing at 40 hours now at 30 hours. it was totally insane. i am bitter.

i still think the idea was interesting, however letting dirty greedy managment steal from the poor and give to themselves was a big mistake.

(please disreguard any and all spelling mistakes)

This goes back a while, but didn't each group doing the Rae Days have to submit a plan and get it approved by either the funder in the case of government contractors or by the higher ups in government if it was a Ministry or region or the government itself?

NewCasa
11-03-2009, 06:44 PM
I believe that those companies who post the largest profits should also pay the largest taxes and not be allowed to be flagged out to avoid taxes.

I think that rule would solve a lot of the problems with the current system.

Competition - the big companies will base themselves wherever it's cheapest to run. If taxes are too high they'll all just move to another country.

Hans
11-03-2009, 07:26 PM
Based is one thing, having a small office in a tax friendly country to avoid paying the normal corporate taxes on major plants located in other countries, is another thing.

NewCasa
11-03-2009, 07:46 PM
Based is one thing, having a small office in a tax friendly country to avoid paying the normal corporate taxes on major plants located in other countries, is another thing.

Just part of the way they do business. I'd venture to say they do that even in Europe ;)

Hans
11-03-2009, 07:58 PM
They should not, as it's a (legal) form of tax evasion.

NewCasa
11-03-2009, 08:16 PM
And yet they do. That is the reality.

Anapeg
11-03-2009, 09:07 PM
They should not, as it's a (legal) form of tax evasion.

Care to speculate how many Canadian Politicians own ships that bear flags from other nations for tax advantages? Do you honestly think they would scuttle their own fleet? How many large corporations take turns owning one another, quietly and minus fanfare to avoid taxes? How many of these are owned or headed by politicians? Yet you look for change there? Really?

Barry Morris
11-03-2009, 09:20 PM
I think that the typical socialist believes that man is kinder and more generous than he actually is. Guys like Rae find out the hard way.

kitca
11-03-2009, 09:52 PM
This goes back a while, but didn't each group doing the Rae Days have to submit a plan and get it approved by either the funder in the case of government contractors or by the higher ups in government if it was a Ministry or region or the government itself?

i dont know the total facts. i know they had to reduce X dollars and they proved they could do that. i dont think the govt. cared about the nitty gritty of it. i went and talked to someone on the board of directors at the time and that person looked into the situation.

Macs II
11-03-2009, 09:55 PM
Bob Rae and NDP are nothing but commies .....hopefully NDP will never be in power again

Hans
11-03-2009, 10:04 PM
Care to speculate how many Canadian Politicians own ships that bear flags from other nations for tax advantages? Do you honestly think they would scuttle their own fleet? How many large corporations take turns owning one another, quietly and minus fanfare to avoid taxes? How many of these are owned or headed by politicians? Yet you look for change there? Really?

Microsoft is a good example of a company moving it's main capital outside the country they have their HQ at to avoid taxes.

Super Gram
11-03-2009, 10:17 PM
Bob Rae and NDP are nothing but commies .....hopefully NDP will never be in power again


Hey there Macs.....Bob Rae is now a Liberal with Iggy..............he switched ships

Macs II
11-03-2009, 10:24 PM
Hey there Macs.....Bob Rae is now a Liberal with Iggy..............he switched ships


a leopard can't change it's spots

NewCasa
11-03-2009, 11:01 PM
a leopard can't change it's spots

Durned pinko hippies huh MK?

Suze
11-04-2009, 09:12 AM
I was in high school during Rae Days, so I was a little un-educated about it (only knew what the teachers would tell us). However, now that I work in the public sector, should this ever come about again, I can say that I would actually welcome it. Not for the fact that it would save the gov't money, but because I would welcome the extra time off. All the money in the world doesn't buy time with my family. I already routinely take days off without pay if I have used up my vacation time.

NewCasa
11-04-2009, 09:15 AM
Smart lady you are.

GRUMPY
11-04-2009, 09:23 AM
a leopard can't change it's spots

and idiots can't grow brain cells judging by your posts.

kitca
11-04-2009, 05:42 PM
I was in high school during Rae Days, so I was a little un-educated about it (only knew what the teachers would tell us). However, now that I work in the public sector, should this ever come about again, I can say that I would actually welcome it. Not for the fact that it would save the gov't money, but because I would welcome the extra time off. All the money in the world doesn't buy time with my family. I already routinely take days off without pay if I have used up my vacation time.

thats one of the things that also made me mad, not actually working one day less a month or week, but just shorter hours. i would also have welcomed a day off a month, even without pay.

really?
11-05-2009, 10:13 AM
Oddly enough, I am home today and tomorrow on a mandatory furlough day. We have 6 in 2009 with the pay deduction spread across the year. Can't carry them over into 2010 so here I am...I enjoy them but the workload awaiting my retun is huge. Almost make it not worth it...

NewCasa
11-09-2009, 09:57 AM
Ok very strange. I had no idea about this at the time I started the subject, but....

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/politics/dalton-days-concept-greeted-with-skepticism/article1353366/

Dalton Days???

ste.1
11-10-2009, 08:36 AM
Why should government employees take 12 unpaid days a year to help support a government that bailed out major corporation who' employees make 2 x 3 times as much as government employees? (Ps government employees pay into thier own pension plan)
What king of stupid government would even suggest the ides 2 years before an election? It would be political suicide.

What government already 25 billion dollars in debt, would spend a ridiculously large amount of money on a 1 week sporting event?
The cost:
$1.4 billion, plus $1 billion for athletes' village
The contributors:
Federal government $500 million
Ontario government $500 million

http://www.thestar.com/sports/panamgames/article/722389--toronto-wins-2015-pan-am-games

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/national/toronto/pan-am-games-bid-gives-toronto-a-sporting-win/article1354572/

http://www.cbc.ca/sports/amateur/story/2009/11/06/sp-pan-am-bid.html

We need a 3 year freeze on government spending . or some Tori Power!

GRUMPY
11-10-2009, 08:53 AM
it is totally beyond belief how out of touch these morons are. what irks me the most is that you have seen very good programs been done away with because there was no money available for them and then the bone heads turn around and do this. The sad thing is you can throw the idiots out and the next bunch of clowns are just as bad.