A First century shroud discovery

[Bluesky]

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2009/12/091216103558.htm

This is also the first time fragments of a burial shroud have been found from the time of Jesus in Jerusalem. The shroud is very different to that of the Turin Shroud, hitherto assumed to be the one that was used to wrap the body of Jesus. Unlike the complex weave of the Turin Shroud, this is made up of a simple two-way weave, as the textiles historian Dr. Orit Shamir was able to show.


Based on the assumption that this is representative of a typical burial shroud widely used at the time of Jesus, the researchers conclude that the Turin Shroud did not originate from Jesus-era Jerusalem.


The excavation also found a clump of the shrouded man's hair, which had been ritually cut prior to his burial. These are both unique discoveries because organic remains are hardly ever preserved in the Jerusalem area owing to high humidity levels in the ground.


My comments: It needs to be shown that the different weave that the Shroud of Turin was technologically not possible in the first century before one can ascertain that is isn't from the 1st century.

[Upper Decker]

I havent followed up much on it, but the shroud of turin was a fake or not what it was thought to be?

[Bluesky]

Apparently it is still highly disputed.

[R W G R]

What needs to be shown is that every shroud cloth was exactly the same back then. Was the same quality cloth, same quality workmanship, used for every burial cloth?

Jesus was buried in the tomb of a rich man. Joseph of Arimethea. I would think Joseph would have seen to it that the burial was done in a fashion not unlike the well-respected or rich of the city had available to them and their families. And while the man buried in this latest shroud was supposedly a Jewish High Priest, nonetheless they also believe he had a severe form of leprosy. And we know how the ancients treated people with such afflictions: as outcasts, to be spurned; for obviously they did something to engender the wrath of God against them.

So maybe this new shroud was a cheap one, used for the outcasts of society ...or maybe it was not. We do not know. And it is just because we do not know that these latest headlines screaming the Shroud of Turin is 'most likely a fake' based on the 'evidence' of this latest discovery is typical media hyperbole. We see it every Christmas and Easter, as it is more exaggerated than usual.

There's an agenda here, people. You don't have to look far to see it.

[Bluesky]

I'm sure there is an agenda with some unscrupulous people. But the question of the shroud's authenticity is not an essentialof the faith, so whether it is proven to be genuine or not, doesn't (shouldn't) diminish (or increase) our faith one bit.

If it were genuine, it would be a tremendous encouragement though! :)

[R W G R]

I'm sure there is an agenda with some unscrupulous people. But the question of the shroud's authenticity is not an essentialof the faith, so whether it is proven to be genuine or not, doesn't (shouldn't) diminish (or increase) our faith one bit.

If it were genuine, it would be a tremendous encouragement though! :)

I don't know of any people who base their faith on the Shroud. At the end of the day, it doesn't matter at all.

But I grow tired of the media trotting out the same old stuff, every Christmas and Easter. They would never do it to Islam.

[Bluesky]

They wouldn't do it to us either if it meant jail, torture and the death penalty. Thank God for our freedom!
But I get your point. They don't do it to Islam in our newspapers.

[NewCasa]

Let's ask Salman Rusdie how tolerant Muslims are of having things written that disagree with their beliefs. Is he still in hiding?

[R W G R]

Let's ask Salman Rusdie how tolerant Muslims are of having things written that disagree with their beliefs. Is he still in hiding?

He's obviously harder to find than Osama bin Laden!

[SSMP]

Is he still in hiding?
No the Fatwa has been lifted.


He's obviously harder to find than Osama bin Laden!
Not really, it is just that your government has spent the last 8 years not looking for OBL.

[R W G R]

Not really, it is just that your government has spent the last 8 years not looking for OBL.

Or, he died of kidney failure years ago.

[GRUMPY]

The following quote just shoots down the whole story for me,if its true that the type of textiles used as shroud wrappings show it to belong to somebody who was rich that would imply that the poor would use other textiles. All this based on one shroud,plus if you are going to say that different social classes used different textiles how does this prove another one is a fake because it is different. That is the same as if in 2000 years somebody digs up a present day coffin and says that based on the find people in the Soo were all buried in oak caskets and nothing else.

"However, a number of indications -- the location and size of the tomb, the type of textiles used as shroud wrappings, and the clean state of the hair -- suggest that the shrouded individual was a fairly affluent member of society in Jerusalem . . ."

[Upper Decker]

No the Fatwa has been lifted.



I thought that was still in effect because muslim law dictated that only the ayahtollah(sp) that issued the Fatwa could retract it? Sorry about getting off topic here,

[R W G R]

The following quote just shoots down the whole story for me,if its true that the type of textiles used as shroud wrappings show it to belong to somebody who was rich that would imply that the poor would use other textiles. All this based on one shroud,plus if you are going to say that different social classes used different textiles how does this prove another one is a fake because it is different. That is the same as if in 2000 years somebody digs up a present day coffin and says that based on the find people in the Soo were all buried in oak caskets and nothing else.

"However, a number of indications -- the location and size of the tomb, the type of textiles used as shroud wrappings, and the clean state of the hair -- suggest that the shrouded individual was a fairly affluent member of society in Jerusalem . . ."

Exactly.

Any teacher would question a middle school student for assuming something with such wide brushstrokes. That this made it as a serious news story is telling indeed.

[Blunt]

And we know how the ancients treated people with such afflictions: as outcasts, to be spurned; for obviously they did something to engender the wrath of God against them.

So maybe this new shroud was a cheap one, used for the outcasts of society ...or maybe it was not. We do not know.


Historically, disfiguring diseases -- particularly leprosy -- caused the afflicted individuals to be ostracized from their communities. However, a number of indications -- the location and size of the tomb, the type of textiles used as shroud wrappings, and the clean state of the hair -- suggest that the shrouded individual was a fairly affluent member of society in Jerusalem and that tuberculosis and leprosy may have crossed social boundaries in the first century C.E.

Sounds to me like they're saying, that despite his diseases; leprosy and tuberculosis, this man was still paid respect when he died. The assertion being that this basic cloak for the times, that this man wore, was not a cloak for an outcast.

I'm not saying I agree with refuting the Shroud of Turin's legitimacy based on a hypothetical social commentary (that people were tolerant of leprosy in the first century and the cloak for a high priest was relatively simple; so based on weave complexities, Turin came later).

But I think that's where they're going with it.

Have there been many burial shrouds found that have been dated first century?

[R W G R]

Have there been many burial shrouds found that have been dated first century?

Not sure, but if I had to guess I would say no, because it seems like if there were they would have been compared and contrasted to the Shroud of Turin extensively.