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View Full Version : wow, what else can you say?



lk_wicked
02-10-2010, 09:17 PM
http://www.saultstar.com/ArticleDisplay.aspx?e=2443003

my greatest fear for my teen kids, and a good reason to not get drunk.

Dragonfly
02-10-2010, 09:21 PM
Terrible just terrible, no matter who is telling the truth.

1337
02-10-2010, 09:39 PM
So she has sex with her friends husband and says it's rape?

Seraph
02-10-2010, 09:46 PM
He came in drunk and poked the wrong broad.
Either way anyone who consents to going to a bar to get shamamered and brings anyone home is consenting to sex. Premeditated planned sex.

That's just what happens when you get drunk and bring someone home.
People who don't understand that sleeping in the same bed as anyone you bring home from the bar may likely result in some kind of sex when you're all drunk are really too dumb for me to give a damn about.

People need to learn to respect themselves and their bodies. Not drinking is the only way to stay sober and staying sober is the only way to drive your life.

Dragonfly
02-10-2010, 09:47 PM
Maybe I read it wrong...but she didnt bring the dude to bed I thought?

Blue Lotus Rising
02-10-2010, 09:48 PM
He came in drunk and poked the wrong broad.
Either way anyone who consents to going to a bar to get shamamered and brings anyone home is consenting to sex. Premeditated planned sex.

No means no. You are very wrong.

Dragonfly
02-10-2010, 09:51 PM
For sure, Ive been to the bar many times and never wanted that to happen (if indeed the story is true) when I say dont touch-dont effin touch- if I dont consent awake or not-dont effin touch.

bluekrissyspikes
02-10-2010, 09:51 PM
So she has sex with her friends husband and says it's rape?

maybe or maybe the guy is a perv and is dangerous. oh, but it must be the girls fault. right.

i can't beleive you guys. there were lots of nights i crashed at peoples places after the bar or let people sleep at my house cause they lived on the other end of town and had no way home and i didn't have to sleep with them nor did i consent to having sex with them by offering them a place to sleep.

1337
02-10-2010, 09:53 PM
The girl who was "rape" was with a couple. The couple were arguing, and the wife went with the girl who was "rape".

The part that doesn't jive is the girl said she fell asleep in the same bed as the guys wife. So, 1 girl had sex without knowing, and the other had her husband having sex right beside her without knowing.

There is more to the story.

Jackie B
02-10-2010, 09:54 PM
Did you guys even read the same article? She offered a place to stay to her friend, and her friend's husband because they were drunk. The two girls fell asleep together in the same bed, and the husband came up and had sex with the girl who wasn't his wife, while she was UNCONSCIOUS. Sounds like rape to me...

1337
02-10-2010, 09:54 PM
maybe or maybe the guy is a perv and is dangerous. oh, but it must be the girls fault. right.

and the girl is always innocent right?

The facts are, she was so hammered that she had sex without knowing. If I ever were so drunk that I wouldn't remember having sex, then I probably wouldn't remember if I consented or not. I don't doubt that there was sex involved, I'm doubting the rape.

Dragonfly
02-10-2010, 09:55 PM
I think there is definately more to it. It doesnt sound quite right, but then again quite a few rape stories are skewed because it is traumatic and she was toasted.

1337
02-10-2010, 09:57 PM
Did you guys even read the same article? She offered a place to stay to her friend, and her friend's husband because they were drunk. The two girls fell asleep together in the same bed, and the husband came up and had sex with the girl who wasn't his wife, while she was UNCONSCIOUS. Sounds like rape to me...

Did you read the same article? She invited HER over to sleep. He was nextdoor at his house.

"Chaylt also told Ontario Provincial Police Const. Philip Nowiski that he went to the woman's residence to get his wife."

I've seen some drunk girls do some wild things, and consent to some things. The next day they were WOW, DID I SAY THAT??? or I can't believe I did that??!??!!??!
It's not as innocent as you think.

bluekrissyspikes
02-10-2010, 09:58 PM
who knows maybe the guy drugged her. or maybe she did make it up, but that doesn't really make sense either.

Strife
02-10-2010, 10:01 PM
He came in drunk and poked the wrong broad.
Either way anyone who consents to going to a bar to get shamamered and brings anyone home is consenting to sex. Premeditated planned sex.

That's just what happens when you get drunk and bring someone home.
People who don't understand that sleeping in the same bed as anyone you bring home from the bar may likely result in some kind of sex when you're all drunk are really too dumb for me to give a damn about.

People need to learn to respect themselves and their bodies. Not drinking is the only way to stay sober and staying sober is the only way to drive your life.

There are a few things wrong with this. Unless the man or woman says "Yes I will have sex with you" or implies that sex is definite, than consent is not given. I have taken a few women home after the bar and have not had sex with them.

Also, although I agree to some point that living a life full of alcoholism is not good, the occasional drink is not harmful. Also, going out on the weekend and getting hammered is how some people live a full life.

1337
02-10-2010, 10:01 PM
I'm just saying, just like any story, none of us were there we have no room to talk.

I've seen some 'sunday school teacher' like girls that were an absolute $lut when they were blitz. Wanted to give every guy at the bar blow jobs, then the next mornig she was MORTIFIED what she had been told she was saying.

It's not too far off to say she consented and regretted. Or consented without remembering.

dancingqueen
02-10-2010, 10:01 PM
Sounds like there is more to this....
but, maybe not
Maybe she consented, but was asleep, people do talk in their sleep. How is he to know if she is awake or not?
on the other hand, having sex with someone in this situation while you are in a similar situation (drunk) is just asking for trouble.
I'll reserve my judgment though :smile:

lk_wicked
02-10-2010, 10:03 PM
i dont think its all so black and white. maybe i read it wrong, but i thought it was a woman she invited to spend the night at her place. The guy obviously took advantage of the situation, drunk or not, he obviously wasnt passed out drunk. although I do agree, this is not a young teenager, but an older woman, who certainly should be aware of the risks of getting that drunk in the first place. However, that being said, who doesnt tie a good one on, once in a blue moon. The newspaper article was written, to attract readers, and sensationalize a small, very small part of the court case. Without knowing the whole of the story, I think its a little harsh to BLAME THE VICTIM as society is often want to do. If we BLAME THE VICTIM based on such little information, are we not also saying, girls that show too much cleavage, very short skirts, enjoy dirty dancing on a dance floor in a bar, are back to the old SHE ASKED FOR IT because of how she looked, dressed or acted?

Personally, all three people in this situation, have a responsiblity to respect themselves and others.

What about the other woman that was in the same bed? was she also so drunk, it didnt wake her either.

quote The alleged sexual assault occurred in the early morning hours of Sept. 27, 2008 in her bedroom, where she had fallen asleep with the wife of the man accused of attacking her. end of quote.

this is a no win situation. I can tell you, if the husband was mine, rape or not, drunk or not, we would be getting a divorce.

dancingqueen
02-10-2010, 10:04 PM
Either way anyone who consents to going to a bar to get shamamered and brings anyone home is consenting to sex. Premeditated planned sex.

I vehemently disagree. I have gone to the bar with people many times gay or straight, girl or guy and not expected any sex. are yuo saying two people cannot go get hammered at a bar without the expectation of sex being there? If so, I'm sorry you feel that way.

bluekrissyspikes
02-10-2010, 10:05 PM
if someone is passed out drunk and totally wasted they can't really consent to anything since they don't know what the hell is going on.

dancingqueen
02-10-2010, 10:06 PM
I think its a little harsh to BLAME THE VICTIM as society is often want to do.

LOL!

1337
02-10-2010, 10:06 PM
There is no denying that the sex happened. They both admit it. It's just the matter of consent. If she can't remember consenting, the truth will never be out. If she was so hammered that she does not remember consenting, then to her it is rape.

Dragonfly
02-10-2010, 10:08 PM
There is no denying that the sex happened. They both admit it. It's just the matter of consent. If she can't remember consenting, the truth will never be out. If she was so hammered that she does not remember consenting, then to her it is rape.

He was obviously sober. He took advantage big time. Maybe it should be considered as such anyways.

1337
02-10-2010, 10:08 PM
if someone is passed out drunk and totally wasted they can't really consent to anything since they don't know what the hell is going on.

I can argue that many many many times. Take a second and google passed out drunk. or even Youtube it. You will see tonnes of drunk people that are rambling things that they would normally not say. Do you think these people remember what they said when they woke up?

dancingqueen
02-10-2010, 10:09 PM
If she was so hammered that she does not remember consenting, then to her it is rape.

what would be interesting is how the courts would see it... What do you guys think about that if she did consent but does not remember consenting?

1337
02-10-2010, 10:09 PM
He was obviously sober. He took advantage big time. Maybe it should be considered as such anyways.

No denying he took advantage of it, no doubt in my mind. But to call it rape? Naw... If a girl says "Yes, let's do it", drunk or not, it's consent.

Keep in mind folks, this happened with his wife IN THE SAME BED!!!!

dancingqueen
02-10-2010, 10:10 PM
He was obviously sober. He took advantage big time. Maybe it should be considered as such anyways.

he was not necessarily sober... I have had many a drunken nights of sex. Why do you think he should be considered sober and not her?

GRUMPY
02-10-2010, 10:10 PM
we all have done things when we were drunk that we might not do sober.

1337
02-10-2010, 10:12 PM
what would be interesting is how the courts would see it... What do you guys think about that if she did consent but does not remember consenting?

If she did consent, it's consent whether or not she remembers it. If he were to video tape it and her saying "Let's do it". Thats consent.

As well, as adults, how many people get consent from their significant other before sex???? Does your partner say "Ok, I am consenting to this" or "Yes, let's do it"... some times a flow actions just leads into it, without any verbal exchange.... If she was that drunk, how can you prove those actions were not performed?

bluekrissyspikes
02-10-2010, 10:13 PM
I can argue that many many many times. Take a second and google passed out drunk. or even Youtube it. You will see tonnes of drunk people that are rambling things that they would normally not say. Do you think these people remember what they said when they woke up?

if you are passed out then you wouldn't be chatting. you'd be passed out. if you are unsure of what passed out is, you try using google.

Blue Lotus Rising
02-10-2010, 10:13 PM
Isn't there a law that states if someone is intoxicated, that they are not legally capable of giving consent?

Dragonfly
02-10-2010, 10:14 PM
he was not necessarily sober... I have had many a drunken nights of sex. Why do you think he should be considered sober and not her?

If he is able to recall things as clearly as he seems to, he should have been sober enough to know she was passed out. Not saying he raped her, but he should have known the difference if he can remember all the details.

bluekrissyspikes
02-10-2010, 10:15 PM
Isn't there a law that states if someone is intoxicated, that they are not legally capable of giving consent?

yeah, pretty sure. there used to be anyways as we learned that in college and they told all the guys not to have sex with drunk girls because they can't necessarily agree to do it, even if you think they are.

1337
02-10-2010, 10:15 PM
if you are passed out then you wouldn't be chatting. you'd be passed out. if you are unsure of what passed out is, you try using google.

Define passed out??? If she was that drunk, how does she know if she was passed out???? Ask anyone who's passed out if they remember if they passed out or not. They will all say "I remember drinking, i remember this, then nothing, I remember waking up".

dancingqueen
02-10-2010, 10:17 PM
If he is able to recall things as clearly as he seems to, he should have been sober enough to know she was passed out. Not saying he raped her, but he should have known the difference if he can remember all the details.

good point, I stand corrected.

lk_wicked
02-10-2010, 10:17 PM
if he was sober enough to get an erection, you would sure think he would know, which one was his wife. but who knows, he and his wife had been fighting, maybe he was doing it with the other woman to get back at his wife. stranger things are known to happen.

1337
02-10-2010, 10:18 PM
If you can't remember what happened because of alcohol consumption, that means you CAN'T REMEMBER. If you can't remember what you were doing, how do you know if you were passed out? Just because you can't remember, you can't say you passed out.

Dragonfly
02-10-2010, 10:18 PM
I shouldnt have said "sober" it did say the trio was out drinking, but he definately was not overly intoxicated. My wording was bad, sorry.

1337
02-10-2010, 10:18 PM
if he was sober enough to get an erection, you would sure think he would know, which one was his wife. but who knows, he and his wife had been fighting, maybe he was doing it with the other woman to get back at his wife. stranger things are known to happen.

His wife was in the same bed... she was in the same bed that the sex happened on!!!

dancingqueen
02-10-2010, 10:21 PM
if he was sober enough to get an erection, you would sure think he would know, which one was his wife. but who knows, he and his wife had been fighting, maybe he was doing it with the other woman to get back at his wife. stranger things are known to happen.

My ex can make a significant erection while he is drunk... regardless, he was in a state of being aware of his surroundings, though maybe not legally sober he was aware of the situation. The question comes from, did he know she was drunk when she apparently consented? If so, he clearly took advantage of a situation and needs to be punished...
Then again, I'm not a lawyer... stranger things have been gotten away with... Then again, she could just be trying to be a victim (lying, I know many women that have done that as well so I am skeptical over that point)

1337
02-10-2010, 10:25 PM
If I woke up, with "stuff running down my leg", and I didn't remember having sex, I'd call rape too. But, was I too drunk to not remember saying "Hey let's do it"? That's the question.

You can't call rape if you were too drunk to remember if you consented or not.

Peety
02-10-2010, 10:31 PM
His wife was in the same bed... she was in the same bed that the sex happened on!!!

That is strange. In the same bed? What happened to the couch.

Peety
02-10-2010, 10:33 PM
If I woke up, with "stuff running down my leg", and I didn't remember having sex, I'd call rape too. But, was I too drunk to not remember saying "Hey let's do it"? That's the question.

You can't call rape if you were too drunk to remember if you consented or not.

Maybe he did make a wrong turn.. What happened to safe sex with a friend?

1337
02-10-2010, 10:34 PM
The story says,

"The alleged sexual assault occurred in the early morning hours of Sept. 27, 2008 in her bedroom, where she had fallen asleep with the wife of the man accused of attacking her."

Says,THE ASSAULT OCCURRED IN HER BEDROOM, WITH THE WIFE IN THE SAME ROOM.

dancingqueen
02-10-2010, 10:35 PM
I don't understand how the presence of his wife in the same room holds any relevancy....

Peety
02-10-2010, 10:35 PM
The story says,

"The alleged sexual assault occurred in the early morning hours of Sept. 27, 2008 in her bedroom, where she had fallen asleep with the wife of the man accused of attacking her."

Says,THE ASSAULT OCCURRED IN HER BEDROOM, WITH THE WIFE IN THE SAME ROOM.

So he crawled in after?

Clovis 888
02-10-2010, 10:37 PM
Maybe he was too drunk to tell which one was his wife and assumed it was A-O-K !

I mean, married guy is used to stumbling into a bed with his wife and being able to do it. Not used to another girl being in the bed, mistakes can be made.

Personally I think drinking too much is consent. If you're of legal drinking age and you say "yes barkeep, load me up" you're consenting to being intoxicated. Being intoxicated means you're going to do a lot of stupid things.
Even have sex with the wrong woman...how many drunk guys can say they've done that?

1337
02-10-2010, 10:38 PM
I don't understand how the presence of his wife in the same room holds any relevancy....

Adds the 'o-lala' to the story. How can this happen in the same bed? Was the wife THAT drunk she didn't wake up while her husband was banging her friend? Or was there another level of consent going on? Some drunk banter turning into a "HOLY CRAP WHAT DID I DO"

Dragonfly
02-10-2010, 10:38 PM
Maybe he was too drunk to tell which one was his wife and assumed it was A-O-K !

I mean, married guy is used to stumbling into a bed with his wife and being able to do it. Not used to another girl being in the bed, mistakes can be made.

Personally I think drinking too much is consent. If you're of legal drinking age and you say "yes barkeep, load me up" you're consenting to being intoxicated. Being intoxicated means you're going to do a lot of stupid things.
Even have sex with the wrong woman...how many drunk guys can say they've done that?

He stumbled into someone elses bed...in someone elses house..and he remembers the night clearly (or so he says)

Clovis 888
02-10-2010, 10:40 PM
He stumbled into someone elses bed...in someone elses house..and he remembers the night clearly (or so he says)

Man have animal function drunk.

Go in house
Find bed
Find wife
Have sex.

Who care's who's house it is, he's drunk and horny and his wife is in there somewhere.

He remember's the night clearly because at least admitting to screwing another woman in bed next to his wife is something he can brag about in jail.

A little better than "I was so drunk I could have stuck it in *insert something gross here* and would not have known it.

1337
02-10-2010, 10:41 PM
The victim said

"I remember hearing a voice in my ear," - "It woke me up. I was startled."
The woman said she then heard footsteps of someone running down the stairs.
When she got out of bed, she realized she had no underpants on and "felt stuff running down my legs."



How long does it take, to hear a voice in your ear, to wake up and then hear the person run down the stairs?

The guy like superman with super fast running abilities??? She said she heard the name and it woke her up. Then she heard foot steps? He must've said her name, blew his load, and ran down the stairs in a split second.

Dragonfly
02-10-2010, 10:41 PM
And how do you explain him saying her name? Or teling everyone later it was consentual because he leaned over her to get to his wife and she got frisky? Doesnt sound like an accident to me..

dancingqueen
02-10-2010, 10:42 PM
Man have animal function drunk.

Go in house
Find bed
Find wife
Have sex.

Who care's who's house it is, he's drunk and horny and his wife is in there somewhere.


I wish... then they wouldn't care who they are having sex with... I'd get a place by a bar and leave my door open some nights :/

Tutones
02-10-2010, 10:54 PM
It is possible to be 'blacked out' when drinking yet be fully conscious and do things that you don't remember.

Could be both sides are telling the truth.

1337
02-10-2010, 10:56 PM
To the girl it may be rape, if she truly doesn't remember consenting or not. If you don't remember something happened, plain and simple, in your mind it didn't happen! This doesn't exclude the fact that it may have happened.

official soonet pu$$ycat
02-11-2010, 05:46 AM
With just the info from this story, there's no way in heck he can get convicted. Way too much doubt. The whispering in the ear wakes you up, but someones wiener in you doesn't? I think this should be a lesson of don't get drunk to the point you can't remember being raped.

b&aMom
02-11-2010, 07:49 AM
His wife was in the same bed... she was in the same bed that the sex happened on!!!

Yeah, so what does that tell you about him? It tells me that he doesn't care WHAT he does, as long as he WANTS to do it. To me that would include not caring about consent.

I had an ex-boyfriend who didn't care to get consent from girls passed out...including a roommate and two friends' girlfriends. There is a huge difference between not getting consent from a stranger or accquaintance, and a long term partner. In an ongoing relationship, there is a known pattern of relations, where each partner knows what the other expects...like you can or cannot begin relations without my verbal consent. With a stranger or accquaintance, that sexual relationship does not usually exist, so there is no previous pattern to rely on, and you MUST get explicit, verbal consent from a CAPABLE person, or else it is rape.

tippikitty
02-11-2010, 09:09 AM
With just the info from this story, there's no way in heck he can get convicted. Way too much doubt. The whispering in the ear wakes you up, but someones wiener in you doesn't? I think this should be a lesson of don't get drunk to the point you can't remember being raped.

Ok that was funny. Good point too.

CANDY_74
02-11-2010, 09:32 AM
The whispering in the ear wakes you up, but someones wiener in you doesn't?

That is what I don't understand. How can you not wake up when you're being 'raped' (as she put it) but you wake up when you hear your name being whispered?

And then to fall asleep afterwards?! Theres no way you can fall asleep after, you're too scared and nervous about the person coming back again.
I was raped back in 2002 and I can tell you that the way she fell asleep after etc that it wasn't rape! You do not fall asleep after it happens. You stay awake because you're scared and wondering why and how it happened, and you want to call someone about it etc

It doesn't make any sense at all....or maybe hes just really bad at sex, hes small etc etc....theres alot to this story that is definitely not being said!

Scoff
02-11-2010, 09:43 AM
Did you read the same article? She invited HER over to sleep. He was nextdoor at his house.

"Chaylt also told Ontario Provincial Police Const. Philip Nowiski that he went to the woman's residence to get his wife."

I've seen some drunk girls do some wild things, and consent to some things. The next day they were WOW, DID I SAY THAT??? or I can't believe I did that??!??!!??!
It's not as innocent as you think.

I agree with you in this whole thing ...

If you're that drunk that you don't wake up DURING sex then you are totally inebriated, therefore, I don't doubt she consented or whatever. Why on earth do you need to get that drunk in the first place? She gave him a "bum-massage" earlier?

Then she falls back asleep after being "raped"? Ya, ok ... I can tell she was totally traumatized. BULLSH*T! People sober up VERY QUICK when something extreme happens, does this not fall under that category? Again, BULLSH*T woman.

Definitely more here and I don't trust this drunken sl*t one bit by the sounds of it.

Krysta
02-11-2010, 11:29 AM
There is absolutely no cut and dry way of how a rape would happen or how you would react if put in that situation.
Everyone is different and everyone has different circumstances surrounding it. Regardless if you yourself would fall asleep after or not is not relivent as in this case should this be true she did.
I have freinds who did as well as they where still intoxicated, unsure if it actually happened and when they finally fully woke up enough to comprehend what happened was when crap hit the fan.
I like how everyone says, oh I wouldn't do that if I where raped etc. But the fact is we where not in her shoes and we where not there to truly know. To call her a drunken sl&&T is uncalled for in my books. What happens if she is right how much of an ass would you feel? Unless you know her and him personally I wouldn't pass judgement on them in that way as it is slander. JMO
The paper will not give out all details on this situation to say it doesn't make sence or not.
I think this is a horrible situation, a lesson learned and hopefully no long term physical effects such as a baby or disease.

Seraph
02-11-2010, 12:50 PM
No means no. You are very wrong.

I'm not wrong and neither are you . No means no but when someone gets drunk and has people sleep over in their bed that isn't a no now is it?

Strife
02-11-2010, 12:52 PM
I'm not wrong and neither are you . No means no but when someone gets drunk and has people sleep over in their bed that isn't a no now is it?

Unless there is consent, I cant invite a woman to sleep in my bed and have sex with her and have it not be considered rape. Just because she is sleeping in my bed, doesnt mean she is consenting to sex, drunk or not.

HDV
02-11-2010, 12:53 PM
Maybe this guy thought is was some sorta 3-some? Anyways no one knows what happened so its all assumptions. We were not there, therefore we can not say it did or did not happen. We can just assume. Some say, oh maybe this guy thought it was his wife, but in the story she heard him whisper her name in her ear before running out, so he must of known it was not his wife. Also, if he was not drunk or even if he was drinking, he is still cum for taking advantage of a drunk girl. When a girl is so drunk she is falling over and laying down with the room spinning and hammered, no guy should be sleeping with her. That to me is taking advantage of a women which is despicable.
But like I said no one knows the truth or what really happened , so it is not fair to blame anyone. It does sound like he raped her or at least took advantage of her but who can say which is true? Maybe it was some sorta weird 3 some and soemthing happened who knows. Just sounds fishy that he could do her while his wife is beside her and neither of them knew or woke up.

Seraph
02-11-2010, 12:56 PM
I'm not saying it's not unfortunate that it happened this way, or that she feels the way she feels now.

I'm saying anyone who goes to a bar and gets drunk off alcohol gets what they deserve whether they drive a car and kill someone or take off their clothes and have sex with someone. If they wake up in a strange place, with no clothes and new piercings or tattoos and a person near by they've never seen before in a pink apron covered in bacon fat offering them lotion then well HAHA!

All I have to say is

YOU GOT DRUNK. STUPID.

Don't Drink PERIOD. If you're going to get DRUNK.

Are there any good things about being inTOXICated with Poison and feeling sick as all hell? Losing control and acting like a retard?

Anything COOL about getting Raped because you were too drunk to say no?

DONT DRINK.

Strife
02-11-2010, 12:59 PM
So you are saying that it was her fault for getting raped because she was drunk and passed out?

Seraph
02-11-2010, 01:01 PM
Unless there is consent, I cant invite a woman to sleep in my bed and have sex with her and have it not be considered rape. Just because she is sleeping in my bed, doesnt mean she is consenting to sex, drunk or not.

If you invite a woman over to sleep in your bed and she does not say no, but gives you all the signs that she's allowing you to have sex with her than yes it's ok. If she says no and tells you to go away that makes it rape if you continue.

Also with as much as I know about the ******, I know women who Don't want to have sex don't produce lubrication and there is a possibility to tear if she is forced to have sex. That's why rape hurts, because the woman isn't turned on and she's not getting moist and loose in anticipation of the reception of her partner's member.

So that said there would be evidence of a "Forced Entry" or at "Uncomfortable Stay" and there would be some report of pain if her body's receptors didn't signal the hormones to invite sex.

Seraph
02-11-2010, 01:02 PM
So you are saying that it was her fault for getting raped because she was drunk and passed out?

You know what, sounds harsh but if she never got smashed and invited these two home would this have happened?

And she didn't get raped, she accused him of raping her. Let the courts decide that.

Strife
02-11-2010, 01:14 PM
If you invite a woman over to sleep in your bed and she does not say no, but gives you all the signs that she's allowing you to have sex with her than yes it's ok. If she says no and tells you to go away that makes it rape if you continue.

In the real world, the man has to hear the word "yes" before continuing. Scenario...I was out with a woman one day. She flirted with me all day long. She gave me all the signs throughout the day and night. I, along with some of her friends went back to her place. I slept with her in her bed. I tried putting on the moves and she refused. It stopped there. Moral of the story, consent is not given unless both parties agree to sex or sexual acts. Consent can never be implied through flirting or the invitation to sleep in someone's bed.


You know what, sounds harsh but if she never got smashed and invited these two home would this have happened?

And she didn't get raped, she accused him of raping her. Let the courts decide that.

Assuming that she did get raped, nobody deserves to get raped. She may have been drunk, passed out and not fully aware of what was going on around her but the male was not drunk, nor impaired in any way. He made the conscious decision to have sex with her and unless she said yes, than it is considered rape.

Seraph
02-11-2010, 01:21 PM
My 58 year old friend was offered a cigarette when she was walking her dog in the park at night. It had been dosed with a chemical that knocked her out cold. She was dragged by her heels to a basement nearby and had bleeding and tearing in her private areas. She woke up with no clothes and ran out of the house in the bed sheet , finding her dog tied up outside.

That's Rape.


My friend was in the mens room when a guy came up behind him and smashed his face off the urinal. He woke up on the floor with a lot of pain in his lower regions.
That's rape.

My friend was at a party with her friends and when she came out as being a lesbian who wanted to have a sex change to be a boy, two girls and four guys held her down and raped her with a beer bottle to prove to her that she was a woman.

That's rape.


Oh um I heard some guy whisper my name, I woke up sticky wet and went back to sleep in the bed his wife was in because we all got drunk together last night...

CRY ME A RIVER.
That is not Rape. That's getting drunk and having sex.

Strife
02-11-2010, 01:25 PM
Oh um I heard some guy whisper my name, I woke up sticky wet and went back to sleep in the bed his wife was in because we all got drunk together last night...

CRY ME A RIVER.
That is not Rape. That's getting drunk and having sex.

According to the law, that would be considered rape. Unless the man can prove that consent was there, than it is rape. Like I said before, consent must always be given and never implied.

Seraph
02-11-2010, 01:33 PM
So what you are saying is that I could have sex with someone willingly, not give him a signed waiver, and then have him put in jail for rape by saying that he had sex with me and I never gave consent that could be proven?

The only way I'd lose is if he got a take of it and I said yes, but what if I just jumped on him, no words. Can a mute person consent?
What happens there?

Rape is when someone forces another person into an unwanted sexual act. It's not so drunk broads who regret sleeping with guys can waste the court and peoples times crying about something they were stupid enough to get themselves into.
She did not have to drink or sleep in the same bed as the couple. She welcomed both, she got laid.

Rape is SERIOUS. I've been raped, and sexually assaulted. Sober. I've had sex with the wrong people drunk. I know the difference.

Strife
02-11-2010, 01:42 PM
So what you are saying is that I could have sex with someone willingly, not give him a signed waiver, and then have him put in jail for rape by saying that he had sex with me and I never gave consent that could be proven?

The only way I'd lose is if he got a take of it and I said yes, but what if I just jumped on him, no words. Can a mute person consent?
What happens there?

Rape is when someone forces another person into an unwanted sexual act. It's not so drunk broads who regret sleeping with guys can waste the court and peoples times crying about something they were stupid enough to get themselves into.
She did not have to drink or sleep in the same bed as the couple. She welcomed both, she got laid.

Rape is SERIOUS. I've been raped, and sexually assaulted. Sober. I've had sex with the wrong people drunk. I know the difference.

I'm not saying that you have to get a waiver signed but consent has to be there. You are saying that if a woman invites me into her bed, consent is implied. That is not the case. Consent can never be implied. A friend of mine was raped and the guy tried saying that consent was implied because the girl was flirting with him and invited him back to her house. He ended up raping her while she slept (She was in her bed, he was instructed to go to the couch). Needless to say the court said that consent can never be implied, it has to be given.

Dragonfly
02-11-2010, 01:46 PM
I'm not saying it's not unfortunate that it happened this way, or that she feels the way she feels now.

I'm saying anyone who goes to a bar and gets drunk off alcohol gets what they deserve whether they drive a car and kill someone or take off their clothes and have sex with someone. If they wake up in a strange place, with no clothes and new piercings or tattoos and a person near by they've never seen before in a pink apron covered in bacon fat offering them lotion then well HAHA!

All I have to say is

YOU GOT DRUNK. STUPID.

Don't Drink PERIOD. If you're going to get DRUNK.

Are there any good things about being inTOXICated with Poison and feeling sick as all hell? Losing control and acting like a retard?

Anything COOL about getting Raped because you were too drunk to say no?

DONT DRINK.

Thats like me saying because you are gay you deserve aids. That was probably the most retarded thing I have ever heard you say.

Seraph
02-11-2010, 02:04 PM
Thats like me saying because you are gay you deserve aids. That was probably the most retarded thing I have ever heard you say.

Being Gay carries no health risks that aren't associated with homophobes.

If I were a **** I'd deserve AIDS. But I behave and keep it wrapped.

Drinking IS POISON.

Anyone who drinks deserves to face the complications of doing stupid things while drunk and killing yourself either slowly with liver damage or instantly by stumbling drunk into a road and getting hit by a car.
She was lucky all she got was sex she didn't even remember having.

Dragonfly
02-11-2010, 02:08 PM
Sure it is, but what does that have to anything? You are playing the old she deserved it card. My gay comment made no sense and neither does yours. If you were really raped...you wouldnt mouth off about it like it was nothing. And if you WERE you would know that rape comes in MUCH less subtle forms than the violent way you described as well.

Seraph
02-11-2010, 02:13 PM
I'm not saying that you have to get a waiver signed but consent has to be there. You are saying that if a woman invites me into her bed, consent is implied. That is not the case. Consent can never be implied. A friend of mine was raped and the guy tried saying that consent was implied because the girl was flirting with him and invited him back to her house. He ended up raping her while she slept (She was in her bed, he was instructed to go to the couch). Needless to say the court said that consent can never be implied, it has to be given.

He said she said.
What if she did consent and lied about sending him to the couch and being asleep?

When I went to jail for a few hours it was because someone LIED and said that I hit them. He said she said.

What a waste of time and energy. Work it out amongst yourselves. It a man isn't forcing sex on an unwilling victim, he's just trying to get laid.
If she says no, it's no. If she flirts and says it won't happen, then it won't happen. If he tries after he's been told or looks like he's going to try and YOU as the WOMAN in the situation have to kick him a little further away than the couch.

If a man wants sex he will keep trying to get it until he gets it. Men don't have an off button, sorry guys but we don't.
Or we don't know how to use them, few of us will take no for no.

So if you are a woman and a man says "Lets do it" you say no, And PLEASE ask him to LEAVE YOUR HOUSE.

You can't fight him off if you are asleep, and he is likely bigger than you. Just get him to go home and sleep by yourself to be SAFE.

Seraph
02-11-2010, 02:16 PM
Sure it is, but what does that have to anything? You are playing the old she deserved it card. My gay comment made no sense and neither does yours. If you were really raped...you wouldnt mouth off about it like it was nothing. And if you WERE you would know that rape comes in MUCH less subtle forms than the violent way you described as well.

Getting laid when you are drunk by someone you invited to sleep in your own bed is not Rape!

Anyone who drinks deserves to be shot in my opinion. If your life sucks so bad that you have to drink and get drunk to enjoy it than please, throw yourself into traffic or get to an AA meeting PLEASE.

Anyone who gets drunk deserves what they get. So sorry she woke up after having sex and went back to sleep, later deciding to report it as a rape.

Seraph
02-11-2010, 02:20 PM
Oh and I'm a survivor. I've shared my story at meetings and in groups for the last decade so I'm so over it. I didn't ever find or charge the guy who did it, and I doubt I ever will, especially with the statute up.

I can't sit her a survivor of a violent and hateful crime and just watch some lush complain that she didn't mean to be so easy as a means to put someone in jail for a serious hateful and violent crime.

Strife
02-11-2010, 02:23 PM
He said she said.
What if she did consent and lied about sending him to the couch and being asleep?

When I went to jail for a few hours it was because someone LIED and said that I hit them. He said she said.

What a waste of time and energy. Work it out amongst yourselves. It a man isn't forcing sex on an unwilling victim, he's just trying to get laid.
If she says no, it's no. If she flirts and says it won't happen, then it won't happen. If he tries after he's been told or looks like he's going to try and YOU as the WOMAN in the situation have to kick him a little further away than the couch.

If a man wants sex he will keep trying to get it until he gets it. Men don't have an off button, sorry guys but we don't.
Or we don't know how to use them, few of us will take no for no.

So if you are a woman and a man says "Lets do it" you say no, And PLEASE ask him to LEAVE YOUR HOUSE.

You can't fight him off if you are asleep, and he is likely bigger than you. Just get him to go home and sleep by yourself to be SAFE.

Some men might not have an off button but I do.

Rape can happen anywhere. Plain and simple.

Dragonfly
02-11-2010, 02:25 PM
Getting laid when you are drunk by someone you invited to sleep in your own bed is not Rape!

Anyone who drinks deserves to be shot in my opinion. If your life sucks so bad that you have to drink and get drunk to enjoy it than please, throw yourself into traffic or get to an AA meeting PLEASE.

Anyone who gets drunk deserves what they get. So sorry she woke up after having sex and went back to sleep, later deciding to report it as a rape.

Oh please, your far from a saint. Going to the bar once in a while doesnt make you an alcoholic. And she didnt invite him to bed. He was next door at HIS house came into her home to find his wife. Get your facts straight. Not saying she was or wasnt raped but you are full of stories and half baked notions and this is another one.

ArcticBlue
02-11-2010, 03:01 PM
"Parliament put further restrictions on the mistaken-belief defence by enacting S.273(2) as part of the “no
means no” law, which reads as follows:

273(2) It is not a defence to a charge under section 271, 272 or 273 that the accused
believed that the complainant consented to the activity that forms the subject-matter
of the charge, where
(a) the accused’s belief arose from the accused’s
(i) self-induced intoxication, or
(ii) recklessness or willful blindness; or
(b) the accused did not take reasonable steps, in the circumstances known
to the accused at the time, to ascertain that the complainant was consenting."
(Can be found on Page 8: http://www.d.umn.edu/cla/faculty/jhamlin/3925/Readings/CanadaRapeLaw.pdf )

I will not get into the he said/she said aspect of this. I was simply curious if in fact Canada did have the "no means no" law and what it entailed.

1337
02-11-2010, 05:22 PM
Yet again, put it in a time frame. She heard someone whisper her name and she woke up. What does that take? Less than a second? Then she said she heard footsteps going down the stairs. So that means, He whispered her name and bolted down the stairs in less than a second. She went down the stairs to the open door to see know one. This guy must've been very QUICK in all aspects of his life.

Not dismissing the fact that this guy is a d.ouche. I just believe there was a little frisky frisky that lead to sex.

Krysta
02-11-2010, 07:03 PM
SHE WAS DRUNK SHE DESERVED IT IS THE SICKEST COMMENT I HAVE EVER HEARD!
and by that comment you make me sick.

Who cares if she flirted, kissed or touched him or invited him to her bed before hand. You can actually even be in the middle of of something and yet if a woman says no its NO. If he doesn't stop its rape.
That obviously wasn't the case here her situation is different.
But to say anyone deserves rape and saying you have been through it before blows my fricken mind.
No one deserves to go through that EVER!
Being smart about drinkling so your not forced into this type of situation definately, but there is nothing you could ever do that would deserve to be violated.

From what I get of the story She was in her own home and in her own bed and, happened just to have his wife spend the night with her.
He went into her home and did this.

Sounds like maybe her intent was with the wife and not him?

dancingqueen
02-12-2010, 12:24 AM
We need more soonet detectives, post-haste!

Guest
02-12-2010, 02:58 PM
To all those who are saying that he may have just "poked" the wrong woman thinking it was his wife, the victim stated that he was whispering her name in her ear. I know if someone whispered my name in my ear, I'd know that they were referring to me.

bluekrissyspikes
02-12-2010, 03:26 PM
hey. you said post-haste. good job!

dancingqueen
02-12-2010, 04:08 PM
To all those who are saying that he may have just "poked" the wrong woman thinking it was his wife, the victim stated that he was whispering her name in her ear. I know if someone whispered my name in my ear, I'd know that they were referring to me.

OMG! Genius!!!!!!
sokay, sometimes the simplest things escape people :smile:

dancingqueen
02-12-2010, 04:08 PM
hey. you said post-haste. good job!

The cat has me down for four... I think I've done it more times :wink:

1337
02-12-2010, 06:09 PM
OMG! Genius!!!!!!
sokay, sometimes the simplest things escape people :smile:

Was the name whispered?

She said she heard her name and woke up. But also said when she woke up she heard footsteps going down the stairs.

How long would it take for you to wake up, if someone whispered your name in your ear. How long would it take for someone to whisper your name in your ear and make it to the stairs before you woke up?

She heard her name whispered in her ear, woke up and heard foot steps down the stairs. Time line does not make sense.

Dragonfly
02-12-2010, 06:11 PM
Was the name whispered?

She said she heard her name and woke up. But also said when she woke up she heard footsteps going down the stairs.

How long would it take for you to wake up, if someone whispered your name in your ear. How long would it take for someone to whisper your name in your ear and make it to the stairs before you woke up?

She heard her name whispered in her ear, woke up and heard foot steps down the stairs. Time line does not make sense.

When your drunk it may take time to come to your senses.

1337
02-12-2010, 06:17 PM
Your a girl, what is more effective in waking you up? Intercourse or a whisper in your ear?

dancingqueen
02-13-2010, 12:48 AM
Was the name whispered?

She said she heard her name and woke up. But also said when she woke up she heard footsteps going down the stairs.

How long would it take for you to wake up, if someone whispered your name in your ear. How long would it take for someone to whisper your name in your ear and make it to the stairs before you woke up?

She heard her name whispered in her ear, woke up and heard foot steps down the stairs. Time line does not make sense.

I'm just speaking from the position that he did not think he was banging his wife... The rest, is questionable at best.

lk_wicked
02-13-2010, 01:53 AM
Isn't it interesting, how some people are so black, others are so white in their opinions, and most miss, that there are a lot of grey areas.
The grey areas, in this case, being the information, that will probably come out in court. but maybe not.

for the sake are arguement: maybe, just maybe the male in this story, who I think all have agreed, was a douche lol for lack of a better word. what if there was a date rape drug put in her drink, and the wife;s too. maybe it was intentional. It would be interesting to know that the wife and him were argueing about on the way home.... in case it was related.

I think blaming the victim is wrong. and consent or not, this woman was a victim. Whether she was a victim because she got drunk, or because she had sex with the married man? who knows?

What I do know, is young people do go out and get hammered. yes, its not the wisest of things to do. but it happens. Are we saying, teenage girls, and young women who get drunk, in a group of men and women, deserved to be raped if they pass out, amongst their friends, who they trusted, and believed they were in a safe environment.

this whole issue took place in her own home, with the guys wife beside her. she went to bed hammered, but feeling safe in her own nest.
she felt violated, that not only did she have unwanted sex, but she had the guys wife with her, and who would dream in a million years that the husband would come back and have sex with her, when she was in the same room as his wife.

its bazaar, whether she remembers consenting or not, she felt violated! I can't see the courts agreeing to the charges of sexual assault, because there is so much doubt about what happened. However that doubt for us, is because we are reading only a small part of the story, the courts will get a much larger part of that story, and it may become more clear when all the facts are in

it will be interesting to see what happens.

Consent or not, we should all be able to feel safe, when we pass out at home, in our own beds.

i wonder that no one has mentioned, just how betrayed the wife must be feeling.

dancingqueen
02-13-2010, 01:57 AM
you make a number of assumptions as well,
of course, that cannot always be helped.

tippikitty
02-13-2010, 09:13 AM
Oh the things you do when your drunk. Has no one ever had drunk sex? I don't recall ever saying yes or no so does that mean it was rape? I don't think so. My husband would be serving a 100 life sentences. I think that things got carried away and and maybe there was some regret. Either way I can't see this going far in court. jmo