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View Full Version : Are cars getting to compilated for there own good?



Lance1
02-11-2010, 12:16 PM
I see these Toytota problems for brakes and throttle ,which they never had before. Do you really even want the throttle and brakes run by wire (CPU Brain box) vs the tried and true throttle cable and mechanicail brakes?

I have a old 18 year old work truck that works great but I think if it had a 18 year old brain box running the brakes and throttle I would be nervous of it.

Jack Butler
02-11-2010, 02:06 PM
It's called fly by wire, it's used in aircrafts, transports and military vehicles and has for years.
To answer your question, yup!
I'm not sure who will want to own one of these high tech vehicles after 10 or 15 years of use.
The troubles would be to a point where the average wrench doesn't have a chance!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aircraft_flight_control_system#Fly-by-wire_control_systems

fenderbass
02-12-2010, 07:30 AM
I fix these cars everyday not a big deal, You need to know what your looking at when they have a problem.
lots of electrical issues and programing..But the base car or truck still remains (almost) unchanged.. I have been wrenching for 20yrs
now and I like the new cars better...The car or truck can almost tell you what is wrong with it now.. No guess work involved. Take them or leave them.
but I wouldn't hang on to your old junkers very long.. Fuel mileage,longer service time,safer,nicer ride....ect. The list can go on.

Jack Butler
02-12-2010, 07:51 AM
Yeah...kinda got rid of the mechanic for the technician.
....I'll take a mechanic any day!
Part changers have limited knowledge to that of what used to be considered a class A or a master mechanic.
The conversation I have had with some technicians has been humorous...had to explain what a 377, 383, 406, 434 was.
I couldn't even get to Ackerman and bump steer.
I heard of a incident where the cab of a truck had to be separated from the frame to get at a broken plug!
I ain't buy it FB...the complexity is a big part of the problem!

Jack Butler
02-12-2010, 08:47 AM
So....if I buy a new Corvette or top end Cadillac, you will service it?
....I rest my case.

Lance1
02-12-2010, 09:59 AM
Thats what i don't like ,the expectation of a car being safe is not 15-20 years any longer. A new 95 can last longer then a new 2010 car?

Also the hybrid thing,, a fuel saving hybrid model cost $10,000 more then a non hybrid model of the same car, but wiill never save $10,000 in fuel or even closed to it over its life time.

fenderbass
02-12-2010, 12:11 PM
So....if I buy a new Corvette or top end Cadillac, you will service it?
....I rest my case.

Well Jack I see that your sour about this subject...Yes I can service a Corvette and your high end Caddy...
and I can build you a 383 or a 406....but your wasting you money on those old motors these days..Even hot rod builders are using modern power plants
in there cars...

fenderbass
02-12-2010, 12:12 PM
Thats what i don't like ,the expectation of a car being safe is not 15-20 years any longer. A new 95 can last longer then a new 2010 car?

Also the hybrid thing,, a fuel saving hybrid model cost $10,000 more then a non hybrid model of the same car, but wiill never save $10,000 in fuel or even closed to it over its life time.

not sure were you got this piece of info from....also why would you think the Hybrid would be cheaper...Are you aware of what goes into these units?..here is a clip from one of the companies that rate hybrids over gas units


Recently released EPA fuel-economy numbers don't look stellar at 21-mpg city/22-mpg highway, but that's a huge jump up from a non-hybrid. Our comparably equipped long-term 5.3-liter V-8 GMC Yukon averaged 13.9 mpg combined (around 12 mpg city/ 18 highway). The same city routes in our Yukon 2-Mode Hybrid yielded 17.7 mpg with a combined average of 18.2 mpg over three tankfuls. In a world where O.E. designers and engineers are slashing and clawing for a fraction of a percentage point to improve fuel economy, a year-to-year jump over 30 percent (combined)

So do the math...in one year your saving big..

Jack Butler
02-12-2010, 12:39 PM
Yes I can service a Corvette and your high end Caddy...
and I can build you a 383 or a 406....but your wasting you money on those old motors these days..Even hot rod builders are using modern power plants in there cars...

What tools you got to service a vette or a caddy with?
You couldn't have bought them from Bostons cause they didn't have'em.
You tell me Prouse has invested the $75,000.00 or so to be able to service one or two cars a year?
Tell me, why is it that not all technicians get all the up dating or courses?
Why do some get specific courses, when others don't get that training?
I will agree that the ability to diagnose is quite different, trouble is not all problems produce codes.
Street rods today have gravitated to the modern engine as the after market has.
...as for your stroker comment, I'm talking the race track.
Electronic have yet to be accepted at the short tracks!

fenderbass
02-12-2010, 03:29 PM
Tell you what Jack....I'm not going to get into a pissing match with you...Because for some stupid reason you believe your correct.
so I will just let you win...I think you missed the point of this thread...No need to reply to this post.

Jack Butler
02-12-2010, 03:47 PM
..Because for some stupid reason you believe your correct.
so I will just let you win...I think you missed the point of this thread...No need to reply to this post.

Ha, Ha...right!
I am pointing out the fact that there are extremely expensive special tools required to service these vehicles.
I am also pointing out that not all techs are qualified to do all work or procedures.
Both of those point lend themselves to supporting my earlier comments.
Those comparisons nail the point of the thread.
No need to reply to this post.

Barry Morris
02-12-2010, 05:39 PM
....but your wasting you money on those old motors these days..Even hot rod builders are using modern power plants
in there cars...

Are they. Jegs offers a big block Chevys and Hemis. All kinds of older style crate engines available.

Barry Morris
02-12-2010, 06:10 PM
Ha, Ha...right!
I am pointing out the fact that there are extremely expensive special tools required to service these vehicles.
I am also pointing out that not all techs are qualified to do all work or procedures.
Both of those point lend themselves to supporting my earlier comments.
Those comparisons nail the point of the thread.
No need to reply to this post.

No dealer could afford all the tools to service all the vehicles they make.

And in point of fact, they really don't need all of them.