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Oscar_Leroy
02-18-2010, 04:21 PM
If I were to ask twenty people to make a list of what they thought were the best five TV manufacturers and the majority of those people had Samsung as their number one choice; would that make it a fact that Samsung is the better, more capable product, or would it make it a popular opinion that Samsung is the best?

Thoughts?

NewCasa
02-18-2010, 04:22 PM
Define 'better'. ;)

Chester Field
02-18-2010, 04:28 PM
If I were to ask twenty people to make a list of what they thought were the best five TV manufacturers and the majority of those people had Samsung as their number one choice; would that make it a fact that Samsung is the better, more capable product, or would it make it a popular opinion that Samsung is the best?

You could say it was a fact that X out of the 20 surveyed thought it was the best according to the survey, but it would not make Samsung being the best a fact.

Super Gram
02-18-2010, 04:29 PM
I would say it was an opinion because we have a 42" Samsung and it is the best.

Wisdom
02-18-2010, 04:50 PM
opinion.......if you do a survey that of all the people that own a T.V. on the planet then it would be (sort of) fact.....you are taking a incredibly small representative SAMPLE of a population....not very accurate......

its a qualitative/quantitative methodological issue.....

nightingale
02-18-2010, 05:04 PM
are you dumb?

Oscar_Leroy
02-18-2010, 05:13 PM
are you dumb?

Who, me? If so, no I am not dumb. This is actually to settle an argument. I was called stupid for not thinking something was the best simply because it was the popular opinion. I was told that because it was the popular opinion that the person in question was the best at what he did it was a fact that he was the best, and I was an idiot for thinking otherwise. So I guess you could say I am trying to further prove that I am not dumb for simply having an opinion that is not of the popular variety. It is a really dumb question though isn't it?

Wisdom
02-18-2010, 05:23 PM
are you dumb?

no...you?

Oscar_Leroy
02-18-2010, 05:30 PM
opinion.......if you do a survey that of all the people that own a T.V. on the planet then it would be (sort of) fact.....you are taking a incredibly small representative SAMPLE of a population....not very accurate......

its a qualitative/quantitative methodological issue.....

I would say even of you did survey every TV owner on the planet it would still remain popular opinion and not fact. A lot of people would be inclined to say one thing is better than the other based more experience with one brand over another. You cannot trust a survey of opinions to determine the best of anything, as opinions can be quite biased at times.

Strife
02-18-2010, 06:43 PM
I would say even of you did survey every TV owner on the planet it would still remain popular opinion and not fact. A lot of people would be inclined to say one thing is better than the other based more experience with one brand over another. You cannot trust a survey of opinions to determine the best of anything, as opinions can be quite biased at times.

I agree. For something to be a fact, there has to be irrefutable evidence that it is indeed true. A poll or survey can be deemed refutable based on an individuals opinion or bias.

1337
02-18-2010, 07:00 PM
I have a 32" Samsung LCD in the playroom, and I like it. That tv is the only samsung experience i've had.

Hans
02-18-2010, 07:19 PM
That is impossible to determine, as better in this case is a perception and not a fact.
It's similar to what you said about the person being the best because everyone said he was the best. That is because they perceived it as such, and you were correct for doubting that perceived status.

Jack Butler
02-18-2010, 07:22 PM
Here put it this way...
If you had an opinion, and everywhere you looked, it said something else.
Every stat, every article, every report consistently disagree with your opinion.
And, each one of those stats, reports and article consistently give you the exact same answer, but different from yours.
You can't come up with one thing...not one, that supports your belief....do you still voice that same opinion?
What opposes you is circumstantial evidence.
Now...the question is, when does circumstantial evidence become fact?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Circumstantial_evidence

Oscar_Leroy
02-18-2010, 07:54 PM
Here put it this way...
If you had an opinion, and everywhere you looked, it said something else.
Every stat, every article, every report consistently disagree with your opinion.
And, each one of those stats, reports and article consistently give you the exact same answer, but different from yours.
You can't come up with one thing...not one, that supports your belief....do you still voice that same opinion?
What opposes you is circumstantial evidence.
Now...the question is, when does circumstantial evidence become fact?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Circumstantial_evidence

It is still popular opinion. Just because I have an opinion that would be less popular does not mean it holds any less merit than any other opinion.

Jack Butler
02-18-2010, 07:59 PM
With that much against you, your opinion becomes lame, without credence.
When does circumstantial evidence become fact?

Jack Butler
02-18-2010, 08:02 PM
Can you provide proof that what you say is true or accurate?
Could you prove it in court?

Oscar_Leroy
02-18-2010, 08:09 PM
If you had to go to court to justify an opinion I could. Sadly Jack, these kinds of things are not decided in court. I was taught in pre-school to respect the opinions of others regardless of how much I disagree with them.

Jack Butler
02-18-2010, 08:11 PM
Prima Facie

(pronounced /ˈpraɪmə ˈfeɪʃiː/, from Latin prīmā faciē) is a Latin expression meaning on its first appearance, or by first instance; at first sight. The literal translation would be "at first face", prima first, facie face, both in the ablative case. It is used in modern legal English to signify that on first examination, a matter appears to be self-evident from the facts. In common law jurisdictions, prima facie denotes evidence which unless rebutted would be sufficient to prove a particular proposition or fact.

An aim of the doctrine of prima facie is to prevent litigants bringing spurious charges which simply waste all other parties' time.

ArcticBlue
02-18-2010, 08:19 PM
Prima Facie

(pronounced /ˈpraɪmə ˈfeɪʃiː/, from Latin prīmā faciē) is a Latin expression meaning on its first appearance, or by first instance; at first sight. The literal translation would be "at first face", prima first, facie face, both in the ablative case. It is used in modern legal English to signify that on first examination, a matter appears to be self-evident from the facts. In common law jurisdictions, prima facie denotes evidence which — unless rebutted — would be sufficient to prove a particular proposition or fact.

An aim of the doctrine of prima facie is to prevent litigants bringing spurious charges which simply waste all other parties' time.

OMG! It was just a simple question. Everyone is entitled to their opinion! No one is going to court over this!!

Oscar_Leroy
02-18-2010, 08:24 PM
OMG! It was just a simple question. Everyone is entitled to their opinion! No one is going to court over this!!

It is a simple question isn't it?

ArcticBlue
02-18-2010, 08:25 PM
It is a simple question isn't it?

Indeed it is! Granted it does require a little bit of thought to provide a response, but not so much that one over thinks it.

Jack Butler
02-18-2010, 08:26 PM
OMG! It was just a simple question. Everyone is entitled to their opinion! No one is going to court over this!!

It is the process used to distinguish fact from opinion.

ArcticBlue
02-18-2010, 08:28 PM
It is the process used to distinguish fact from opinion.

As I said, no one is going to court over it.

A scenario was provided and in turn a simple question was asked. The options were rather straightforward.

Jack Butler
02-18-2010, 08:33 PM
Here put it this way...
If you had an opinion, and everywhere you looked, it said something else.
Every stat, every article, every report consistently disagree with your opinion.
And, each one of those stats, reports and article consistently give you the exact same answer, but different from yours.
You can't come up with one thing...not one, that supports your belief....do you still voice that same opinion?
What opposes you is circumstantial evidence.
Now...the question is, when does circumstantial evidence become fact?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Circumstantial_evidence


Indeed it is! Granted it does require a little bit of thought to provide a response, but not so much that one over thinks it.

This is more so what the situation is.
Can I get your thoughts?
Do you, still not believe the mountains of evidence and opinion against you and hold on to you belief?

ArcticBlue
02-18-2010, 08:34 PM
This is more so what the situation is.
Can I get your thoughts?
Do you, still not believe the mountains of evidence and opinion against you and hold on to you belief?

My thoughts and opinions are just that - Mine. I refuse to argue moot points with you. My viewpoint has obviously been stated. Read between the lines.

Oscar_Leroy
02-18-2010, 08:35 PM
It is the process used to distinguish fact from opinion.

So court is the method in which facts are verified? Simple question Jack, requires a simple answer. You acted as if I was an idiot because I disagreed with you. You provided lists and suggested these lists made your opinion a fact, and my opinion nothing more than hogwash. Sorry to break it to you, but that's not how it works...

Jack Butler
02-18-2010, 08:37 PM
I mean, if the answer to a question on a test was A, and you answered B, even though the answer was A, would you still try and argued B is right.

ArcticBlue
02-18-2010, 08:38 PM
I mean, if the answer to a question on a test was A, and you answered B, even though the answer was A, would you still try and argued B is right.

Not when asked for my opinion. Perhaps you need to research the word opinion rather than how to prove facts in the judicial system.

Jack Butler
02-18-2010, 08:41 PM
So court is the method in which facts are verified?


Prima Facie evidence is used to determines guilt, when there is no eye witness.
Circumstantial evidence creates a Prima Facie case....looks like, taste like, smalls like... it is!!

Jack Butler
02-18-2010, 08:43 PM
Not when asked for my opinion. Perhaps you need to research the word opinion rather than how to prove facts in the judicial system.

The thread is about fact as well.
When does opinion become fact?

ArcticBlue
02-18-2010, 08:44 PM
I mean, if the answer to a question on a test was A, and you answered B, even though the answer was A, would you still try and argued B is right.

So, should we go to court to find the answers to everlasting questions too? What came first - chicken or the egg? Creation vs evolution? I'd like to see a court that tries to prove the sides of such examples as "facts." I hate to break it to you but court is not the supreme fact verification system - take science for example. Court is often a he said, she said situation anyhow - where is the fact in that? A jury of your peers? What if no one likes you? *wink wink, nod nod*

Oscar_Leroy
02-18-2010, 08:44 PM
Too bad we were discussing opinion and not fact. You cannot accept it when others might have a different opinion than you.

Jack Butler
02-18-2010, 08:45 PM
Too bad we were discussing opinion and not fact. You cannot accept it when others might have a different opinion than you.

Try not to make this personal....

ArcticBlue
02-18-2010, 08:47 PM
You cannot accept it when others might have a different opinion than you.

Exactly! :wink:

Jack Butler
02-18-2010, 08:48 PM
Exactly! :wink:


The thread is about fact as well.
When does opinion become fact?

So it never does?

ArcticBlue
02-18-2010, 08:49 PM
So it never does?

Typical of you Jack - twist things to suit yourself. Another waste of my time!

Apparently your viewpoint is the only one that is "right" and "factual" and "correct." Oscar Leroy was oh so correct in his statement that I quoted and commented on.

Jack Butler
02-18-2010, 08:50 PM
Typical of you Jack - twist things to suit you. Another waste of my time!

It's simple question.
When does opinion become fact?

ArcticBlue
02-18-2010, 08:52 PM
It's simple question.
When does opinion become fact?

I guess you will be left on your own to figure that out. Apparently you are not open to the opinions of others and are thus a waste of time and energy.

Tutones
02-18-2010, 08:53 PM
The thread is about fact as well.
When does opinion become fact?

Once an opinion, always an opinion. Any 'opinion' that is a value judgement will always be a value judgment regardless of how many people agree. A factual statement is something that is inarguable.

Fact: Everyone eventually dies. What goes up must come down.
Opinion: There is a God. Canadian is the best beer in the world. Soonet rules.

Facts can be proven to be true 100% of the time. Opinions can't.

Chester Field
02-18-2010, 08:53 PM
It's simple question.
When does opinion become fact?
When it can be verified as in agreement with fact.

I am of the opinion that my apple plus your apple equals two apples. My opinion is a fact.

I am of the opinion that Gretzky is the best hockey player ever and that my 56" Samsung is the best TV -both opinions that are widely shared to differing degrees. Also both subjective and comparative and neither absolute.

Jack Butler
02-18-2010, 08:54 PM
...couldn't say it, I see....whatever!

Jack Butler
02-18-2010, 08:56 PM
When it can be verified as in agreement with fact.

I am of the opinion that my apple plus your apple equals two apples. My opinion is a fact.

I am of the opinion that Gretzky is the best hockey player ever and that my 56" Samsung is the best TV -both opinions that are widely shared to differing degrees. Also both subjective and comparative and neither absolute.

Nice....thank you!
How is a Prima Facie case created, if I said that right?

Oscar_Leroy
02-18-2010, 09:01 PM
When did this become a court case? Do yourself a favor Jack. While your on wikipedia looking up big words look up the word opinion, it might save you a headache or two..

Jack Butler
02-18-2010, 09:03 PM
When did this become a court case? Do yourself a favor Jack. While your on wikipedia looking up big words look up the word opinion, it might save you a headache or two..

I understand if this is over your head.

ArcticBlue
02-18-2010, 09:04 PM
I understand if this is over your head.

The only person's head it is over, is yours. Keep arguing, you will keep making that apparent.

Jack Butler
02-18-2010, 09:05 PM
Circumstantial evidence indirectly proves a fact.
It is evidence that requires or allows a trier of fact to make a deduction to conclude that a fact exists.

Jack Butler
02-18-2010, 09:07 PM
The only person's head it is over, is yours. Keep arguing, you will keep making that apparent.

Thanks for answering my question.......

Oscar_Leroy
02-18-2010, 09:10 PM
As I said before, by your standards I suppose you could say Family feud is based on fact... I don't think one person has agreed with you on this and you are still droning on about being right. So I guess again, by your standards we could argue that since it is the majority opinion that you are wrong there would be enough circumstantial evidence to make it a fact that you are wrong. I think you just painted yourself into a corner Jack.

Jack Butler
02-18-2010, 09:10 PM
When did this become a court case? Do yourself a favor Jack. While your on wikipedia looking up big words look up the word opinion, it might save you a headache or two..

When you asked about fact and opinion....courts deal with it on a regular basis.
Kind of a good resource.

Jack Butler
02-18-2010, 09:12 PM
As I said before, by your standards I suppose you could say Family feud is based on fact... I don't think one person has agreed with you on this and you are still droning on about being right. So I guess again, by your standards we could argue that since it is the majority opinion that you are wrong there would be enough circumstantial evidence to make it a fact that you are wrong. I think you just painted yourself into a corner Jack.

....if not answering counts?

Oscar_Leroy
02-18-2010, 09:17 PM
When you asked about fact and opinion....courts deal with it on a regular basis.
Kind of a good resource.


We are talking about popular fact vs opinion. You treated me like I was an idiot because I had an opinion that was different than yours. Question for you, did anybody go to court to prove the point you were arguing in the discussion in question? No. Seems to me like your grasping for straws.. Just admit the opinions of others matter too, and that you are not the ultimate authority on everything.

Jack Butler
02-18-2010, 09:25 PM
We are talking about popular fact vs opinion. You treated me like I was an idiot because I had an opinion that was different than yours. Question for you, did anybody go to court to prove the point you were arguing in the discussion in question? No. Seems to me like your grasping for straws.. Just admit the opinions of others matter too, and that you are not the ultimate authority on everything.

I never said I am the ultimate authority, the stats and records and opinions are.
I'm just agreeing with them.
I treated you like a idiot because you repeat yourself.
If you don't want to use the rules of evidence than all it is, is talk.

Oscar_Leroy
02-18-2010, 09:34 PM
And you do not repeat yourself? This thread alone shows you droning on about some court case we are supposedly in.. Maybe if you aknowledged what other people say I would not have to repeat myself, ever think of that?


I never said I am the ultimate authority, the stats and records and opinions are.


Opinions are? Which ones Jack? You are arguing against opinions right now, suggesting they hold little to no value.. Is it that they hold little to no value until you make up some arbitrary rule that says certain opinions that suit your agenda are valid? I think that may be the case.

So just mo make sure I have this straight. Opinions do not count unless they are of popular variety. Once an opinion is popular it becomes fact. Even though it is of popular opinion that you are wrong; you are denying it, suggesting the opinions in this thread are wrong, even though they are very consistent. You make less and less sense ever time you post Jack.

Jack Butler
02-18-2010, 09:35 PM
So, that's a no?

8th
02-18-2010, 09:41 PM
So, that's a no?translation------------- I AM JACK AND I AM WRONG

Strife
02-18-2010, 09:46 PM
translation------------- I AM JACK AND I AM WRONG
Now that is a fact lol lol

Oscar_Leroy
02-18-2010, 10:01 PM
Now that is a fact lol lol

Don't be so sure of that. Was it verified in court?

8th
02-18-2010, 10:05 PM
it's time to play guess who's jack http://img716.imageshack.us/img716/1282/jackt.jpg (http://img716.imageshack.us/i/jackt.jpg/)

Jack Butler
02-18-2010, 10:15 PM
Don't be so sure of that. Was it verified in court?

Not those guys....ha, ha...there all yours!

Barry Morris
02-18-2010, 10:18 PM
In my experience with electronic equipment, you get what you pay for, assuming honest retailers.

A 500 dollar TV set will be of a certain quality regardless of whos name is on it. A 1500 dollar set will look better, and be just as good as the one beside it, at the same price. There might be slight differences, but not much.

Wanna bet on gear?? Check who has the best, cheapest and longest warranty. I have never gone wrong with that idea.

Oscar_Leroy
02-19-2010, 01:49 AM
In my experience with electronic equipment, you get what you pay for, assuming honest retailers.

A 500 dollar TV set will be of a certain quality regardless of whos name is on it. A 1500 dollar set will look better, and be just as good as the one beside it, at the same price. There might be slight differences, but not much.

Wanna bet on gear?? Check who has the best, cheapest and longest warranty. I have never gone wrong with that idea.

Sadly this isn't just about TV's; it is about one member not being able to accept anybody else's opinion.

NewCasa
02-19-2010, 01:53 AM
Sadly this isn't just about TV's; it is about one member not being able to accept anybody else's opinion.

Do you mean accept or do you mean agree with?

Oscar_Leroy
02-19-2010, 02:25 AM
I mean accept. I'm not looking for agreement at all. I am just hoping that maybe my opinion will be acknowledged by a certain member, even if it is different. This member treated me like an idiot many times for having my own opinion. I was told that because my I did not share the popular opinion, I was pretty much an idiot. I was also treated like an idiot for not thinking popular opinion would make something a fact. That's why this thread was started, just to see if anybody else shared this opinion. Turns out, pretty much everybody understands the difference between fact and opinion. Everybody except one person...

This certain member and their supremest attitude just gets old in a real hurry. Say anything he might disagree with and you're automatically wrong.

Jack Butler
02-19-2010, 04:46 AM
The thread was The Best Ever.
You tried to discredit my pick (post #4) after I told you it was easy.
At this point you are not just voicing your opinion, you are starting a debate.
I have no problem with opinion, opinion that discredits, is a new set of perimeters.
I know the difference between fact and opinion.
What is not being fully applied is the meaning of debate.
I supported my side with fact and you didn't or couldn't support yours.
Where does that leave us?
It leaves us with 2 different opinions and a debate that had a winner!
I'm not disagreeing with your opinion, I'm defending my position.
You have yet to defend yours....with fact.

dancingqueen
02-19-2010, 04:48 AM
I love it when people just can't admit they are wrong...
It's like they think if they "say" it, they will just die a terrible, painfull, horrible death...
There are a few members on here that are absolutely, without a doubt ever, EVER, EVER wrong, seems like they never have been, and never will....
News flash people, it is okay to be wrong every now and then... actually, you look more foolish and loose more credibility by trying to back yourself out of the situation...
an opinion is just that, an opinion, it cannot be proven, or dis proven, therefore, cannot be a fact. Accept it Jack, the OP's question has been answered many times... If you want, we can say the majority agree with this standpoint, or "opinion" and therefore it is factual according to your logic.
If you want to ask a different question about when opinion turns into fact, then start your own thread...
GOD!

Jack Butler
02-19-2010, 05:18 AM
I accept opinion.
When it comes to debate, that's different.
An opinion that is different is fine, in conversation.
When debating you need support.
Debates are meant to be judged..
Fact are needed to support opinion in a successful debate.
You can't just repeat your opinion over and over.
I don't need to start a new thread.
It relates directly to the point of this!

GRUMPY
02-19-2010, 09:16 AM
this has nothing to do with tv's but the thread starter has been trying for weeks to preach to the deaf and dumb when all he had to do was put the ignoramus on ignore.

Barry Morris
02-19-2010, 09:50 AM
There ya go Grumpy. When you're right, you're right!!!

Wisdom
02-19-2010, 10:26 AM
I accept opinion.
When it comes to debate, that's different.
An opinion that is different is fine, in conversation.
When debating you need support.
Debates are meant to be judged..
Fact are needed to support opinion in a successful debate.
You can't just repeat your opinion over and over.
I don't need to start a new thread.
It relates directly to the point of this!

Its not who is right or wrong when debating its about the conversation....if you can stay balanced in your mind....you can never loose a debate...because you separate losing and wining into a dichotomous framework, we forget the purpose is to introduce perspectives.....If you value everyone's opinion....how could you lose?

GRUMPY
02-19-2010, 10:36 AM
if you go to the threads where he has been in arguments you will notice that they all end with him being the one with the last 5 or 6 posts and him coming away feeling like he was the winner. not realizing that because others grew tired of kids games and moved on to the adults table didn't make him the winner. Some of the best arguments are the ones where you do lose because you come away with more knowledge and a different perspective on a number of subjects.

NewCasa
02-19-2010, 10:37 AM
The thread was The Best Ever.
You tried to discredit my pick (post #4) after I told you it was easy.
At this point you are not just voicing your opinion, you are starting a debate.
I have no problem with opinion, opinion that discredits, is a new set of perimeters.
I know the difference between fact and opinion.
What is not being fully applied is the meaning of debate.
I supported my side with fact and you didn't or couldn't support yours.
Where does that leave us?
It leaves us with 2 different opinions and a debate that had a winner!
I'm not disagreeing with your opinion, I'm defending my position.
You have yet to defend yours....with fact.

Jack, I haven't read the entire thread, but I have to say when someone indicates to me that I have offended them I apologize. Most often the offense was not intended, but that is not the point. The point is their perception of what I said and my responsibility for having said it. If more people were willing to do that we'd have much more equitable discussions, don't you think?

And as for debate, I'm going to give my opinion too - since you asked for it ;) I will just say that a debate is a formal discussion with each party expressing and supporting their point of view. The key to a debate is that it is moderated. Without the moderator the debate becomes merely an arguement. I am not referring to the moderators here, thought the job is pretty much the same - I'm really just talking about a referee.

So your comment that this was becoming a debate is inaccurate. It was becoming an arguement. The moderators chose not to be involved, as is their perogative.

NewCasa
02-19-2010, 10:39 AM
Its not who is right or wrong when debating its about the conversation....if you can stay balanced in your mind....you can never loose a debate...because you separate losing and wining into a dichotomous framework, we forget the purpose is to introduce perspectives.....If you value everyone's opinion....how could you lose?

I like that. There really is wisdom in it. To win is to gain something. If both people gain from a discussion both win. Excellent point.

Oscar_Leroy
02-19-2010, 02:48 PM
The thread was The Best Ever.
You tried to discredit my pick (post #4) after I told you it was easy.
At this point you are not just voicing your opinion, you are starting a debate.
I have no problem with opinion, opinion that discredits, is a new set of perimeters.
I know the difference between fact and opinion.
What is not being fully applied is the meaning of debate.
I supported my side with fact and you didn't or couldn't support yours.
Where does that leave us?
It leaves us with 2 different opinions and a debate that had a winner!
I'm not disagreeing with your opinion, I'm defending my position.
You have yet to defend yours....with fact.

I had an opinion, which is built around fact. You told me it was wrong. I said I believed one thing was better than the other because of certain facts or statistics. Am I not entitled to that?

Wisdom
02-19-2010, 02:51 PM
if you go to the threads where he has been in arguments you will notice that they all end with him being the one with the last 5 or 6 posts and him coming away feeling like he was the winner. not realizing that because others grew tired of kids games and moved on to the adults table didn't make him the winner. Some of the best arguments are the ones where you do lose because you come away with more knowledge and a different perspective on a number of subjects.

if you come away with more knowledge...how have you lost?

I am curious though of why you feel my engagement in conversation is "child-like"- have I offended you in any way?

Yes I feel satisfied if there was healthy conversation....I really enjoy the interaction.....and where is this "Adults table" you are referring to? are there rules that I have broken within the framework of the conversations? I am sorry if you do not wish to engage in conversation with me.....but I am quite curious of your motives.....

dancingqueen
02-19-2010, 03:59 PM
if you go to the threads where he has been in arguments you will notice that they all end with him being the one with the last 5 or 6 posts and him coming away feeling like he was the winner. not realizing that because others grew tired of kids games and moved on to the adults table didn't make him the winner. Some of the best arguments are the ones where you do lose because you come away with more knowledge and a different perspective on a number of subjects.

ding*ding*ding*
We have a winner!
on that note...
I'm outta here :teeth:

GRUMPY
02-19-2010, 10:08 PM
if you come away with more knowledge...how have you lost?

I am curious though of why you feel my engagement in conversation is "child-like"- have I offended you in any way?

Yes I feel satisfied if there was healthy conversation....I really enjoy the interaction.....and where is this "Adults table" you are referring to? are there rules that I have broken within the framework of the conversations? I am sorry if you do not wish to engage in conversation with me.....but I am quite curious of your motives.....

this wasn't posted about you unless you have more than one account on here.

Wisdom
02-20-2010, 03:58 PM
this wasn't posted about you unless you have more than one account on here.

i am sorry...i thought it was because it was right below mine....i guess im just getting use to being attacked....

1337
02-20-2010, 04:23 PM
Better isn't a quality you can measure. So one can not be 'better' than the other. Better is 100$ based on opinion.

If you want to argue if 1ghz processor is faster than a 400mhz. You can, because it has a definitive answer. Asking if something is better, that is very open ended. What is better? In whos mind? Most stuff is based on popular opinion.

Just because something has a bigger screen, doesn't make it better. 1 person might say their TV is better because it is bigger. Another would say their TV better because they have a better refresh rate... and so on.

GRUMPY
02-20-2010, 04:31 PM
well it all boils down to Bozo saying that Gretzky was the greatest and anyone who says that in their opinion that somebody else was is totally wrong. to me the best that anyone could hope to be is considered one of the best as there is no way to judge different player playing in different eras and even in the same era there are too many variables that come into play such as team mates for example. While many could justifiably choose Wayne others could choose many other players and be equally correct. Personally I think that it could be Orr or even Eddie Shack, while only having mediocre skills at best he managed to stay in the big league while far more talented players toiled in the minors plus the fact that every time he went on the ice he entertained the crowds. Win or lose when Shack was on the ice you went home feeling that you got your moneys worth. Its all a matter of perspective.