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D0bb3r
01-31-2011, 04:21 PM
I personally am going to sign .. and try to get everyone i know to sign as well !!


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6rUsRCyS6PU

8th
01-31-2011, 04:32 PM
http://www.soonet.ca/showthread.php?44438-Anybody-else-upset-about-Usage-Based-Billing-coming-to-Shaw-Feb-1st&p=634111#post634111

Andre
01-31-2011, 04:35 PM
I hope the mods let this stay in the soapbox.
Not a lot of people go into the computers forum.

8th
01-31-2011, 04:39 PM
true enough I would repost it if they moved it (it's worth getting banned over)

NewCasa
01-31-2011, 04:48 PM
Of course it's been sighted in politics too....

http://www.soonet.ca/showthread.php?44531-Corporations-win-again....

Agreed, this is a very large issue - the more forums this is posted in the more people will see it. Fee for use is not really all that bad - we've done it at the gas station and the grocery store for years. When it turns into gouging and collusion between vendors there's a problem though.

Andre
01-31-2011, 05:22 PM
This is the flawed thinking in Canada....that internet is some sort of commodity. You can't go out and buy a barrel of bits. They don't exist on a physical plain. The aren't manufactured, mined or refined.
Just about every country in the industrialized world pay for their internet for access and by the speed....NOT how much internet they use. But for some reason Canada can't!

"When it turns into gouging and collusion between vendors there's a problem though. "
You got that right though. The CRTC's ruling makes an outrageous/ profit of over 6,000% legal.

Super Gram
01-31-2011, 06:13 PM
So Andre what does that mean to a person like me......who only downloads the odd picture. Does this effect me or what?

Andre
01-31-2011, 06:44 PM
I depends on what plan you are on. If all you do is check email and surf the net, it won't.
The people it will get are the ones who download a lot or watch a lot of video and gamers. Homes that have multiple computers usually have no idea how much bandwidth they use.
I told a friend of mine with two kids to check how much bandwidth they were using. He did and was surprised to find out they were just over 60GB/month. He had no idea.
You really have to watch because some plans are down to as low as 2GB now.

SmrtGrl
01-31-2011, 07:30 PM
here's the link for the online petition....I posted it on facebook and suggest you do too. http://openmedia.ca/meter

Dragonfly
01-31-2011, 08:04 PM
Signed :)

iluvchristian
01-31-2011, 08:17 PM
I hope the mods let this stay in the soapbox.
Not a lot of people go into the computers forum.

I didn't see it until someone posted the link here. So I'll ask my question here as well : "How does this affect people with Vianet phone?"

Andre
01-31-2011, 08:27 PM
If you have high-speed dsl internet and just do light surfing you should be fine.
If you have lite-speed dsl, that cap is down to 2GB so it might be a problem.

iluvchristian
01-31-2011, 08:49 PM
If you have high-speed dsl internet and just do light surfing you should be fine.
If you have lite-speed dsl, that cap is down to 2GB so it might be a problem.

Shaw extreme speed :) so I should be fine? Do those video ads count against your total bandwidth? or streaming tv? Is it just DL's or uploads too?

Andre
01-31-2011, 08:56 PM
You should ask Vianet about their voip. I thought you had to have internet through them to get voip.
Everything counts against you total bandwidth. Even the ads on web pages.

tired-n-cranky
01-31-2011, 09:12 PM
I have stickied this, because this affects everybody in Canada going forward.

People say, oh well this only affects pirates, or people who download a lot. Well, no it doesn't. If you have kids that play games, Xbox, PC, etc.. if you watch Youtube, Netflix... this will affect you.

Ads, web page cookies, emails, it all counts. And this is TOTAL, upload and download, not just downloads.

official soonet pu$$ycat
01-31-2011, 09:44 PM
How in God's name did this pass?

Macs II
01-31-2011, 10:32 PM
When it comes to internet or cell phones Canada is a third world country ..

SIMBA
01-31-2011, 10:35 PM
LOL!! Very true Macs.

Hans
01-31-2011, 11:00 PM
And I don't want to scare anybody, but visiting this board also counts towards your monthly data cap.
So pick your words carefully next time you write something.

Andre
01-31-2011, 11:14 PM
Thanks NetDawg,
I was hoping you or Shawn would weigh in.
Even if this doesn't effect people who only surf and check email now. It certainly will in the future.

I spoke earlier in this or other threads that many people aren't against some sort of metered billing. It's the insanely low caps and the price of per/GB they are charging.
To put this into perspective, a few ISP's in the states tried this a few years ago and the American people went nuts. Now I believe the lowest cap on one of the major American ISP's for high speed is 250 GB/month.
In Canada it's 25GB 10X less or at Shaw's current level just over 6X less.
In Canada major ISP's pay as little as 1/3 of a cent for one gig of bandwidth but they want to charge us $2 per gig. That's some markup/

D0bb3r
02-01-2011, 07:04 AM
I hate to let you know but we are already in the process of metered billing, shaw no longer offeres the unlimited bandwidth
package and bell has moved to method selling you 5 gig overage insurance !! If you dont think this will evolve out of control
just remember back when metered usage was introduced to telephones. If you left your calling until after 6pm you got cheap
billing ... so where is that now ???

chris5
02-01-2011, 11:54 AM
A fact pointed out by the author of this article..... too much.... We gotta fight this for sure...

You can buy a 160GB SSD hard drive for about $300, and have it shipped next day for $10. So this works out to about 15 Mb per second, and $1.94/GB.

The telecoms will charge you $2.00/GB to use the Internet, so says the CRTC.

http://www.soonews.ca/viewarticle.php?id=29583

Dragonfly
02-01-2011, 04:25 PM
So does this mean that I can finally talk my other half out of playing Xbox live??? lmao

BFLPE
02-01-2011, 04:57 PM
So does this mean that I can finally talk my other half out of playing Xbox live??? lmaoNot likely, but you may have to give up something so he can afford it.

Dragonfly
02-01-2011, 05:13 PM
Not likely, but you may have to give up something so he can afford it.

Ha ya right, I already give up 6 hours a day of TV time to his stupid XBOX and I am always the one who pays for his stupid live cards and games lol I shall just use this as an excuse :D

Super Gram
02-01-2011, 07:38 PM
I signed and will send it out to my other friends in Ontario

chris5
02-02-2011, 08:56 PM
Priminster Harper has ordered a review of UBB.... Hopefull it will be overturned....

http://business.financialpost.com/2011/02/01/harper-orders-review-of-internet-pricing-regime/

Bluesky
02-02-2011, 10:10 PM
It will be overturned!

http://www.torontosun.com/news/canada/2011/02/02/17131626.html

OTTAWA *- The Conservative government is warning it is prepared to overturn a decision by the federal telecommunications regulator imposing Internet usage-based billing.
"The CRTC should be under no illusions. The prime minister and minister of industry will reverse this decision unless they do it themselves," a senior government official told QMI Agency Wednesday.
A parliamentary committee was set to weigh in on the recent and contentious decision by the Canadian Radio-television Telecommunications Commission (CRTC) to cap Internet plans offered by independent providers Thursday.
MPs say they have been hearing from concerned constituents and small business owners concerned the CRTC ruling will hurt their bottom line.

Hans
02-02-2011, 10:39 PM
Even if it is overturned I will seriously considering changing ISP's, as I don't like the way my current ISP has handled this situation. I can only hope many others do the same.

D0bb3r
02-03-2011, 07:00 AM
I wish i could change ... being locked into Bell is currently my only option in EchoBay though !!

Andre
02-03-2011, 12:44 PM
I think this may only apply to dsl wholesale customers. Bell,Shaw,Rogers may still be free to do as they wish.

chris5
02-03-2011, 01:58 PM
I think this may only apply to dsl wholesale customers. Bell,Shaw,Rogers may still be free to do as they wish.

do you have a reference to where you heard this.... my research tell me that the review is underway and nothing been decided...

Andre
02-03-2011, 02:07 PM
Listened to an interview with Tony Clement. He seems to be saying the the big incumbents can do as they wish but can not force their policies or price structure on the competition.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t6g3lM6Jv2A

Hans
02-03-2011, 04:19 PM
At the same time the big incumbents will not be able to compete and will be forced to either reverse or drastically lower their price plans.
It would currently cost me 150$/month with Shaw, up from 50$/month.
There's no way they could justify charging me that if a competitor offers me the same thing for 75$/month.

Karen-Annie
02-03-2011, 04:26 PM
From Sootoday:

http://www.sootoday.com/content/news/full_story.asp?StoryNumber=50633

The war of words gets louder.

chris5
02-03-2011, 04:36 PM
Guaranteed this will be a political decision... with 330000 signatures on the petition already they have no choice but to address it... Elections and kissing voters a$$es go hand in hand.. What kills me in the first place is why are beaurocrats given free reign to make these decisions???? Leaves tons of room for corruption... Changes like this should be delt with by parliament...

NewCasa
02-03-2011, 04:46 PM
Even if it is overturned I will seriously considering changing ISP's, as I don't like the way my current ISP has handled this situation. I can only hope many others do the same.

Who are you going to change to?

chris5
02-03-2011, 04:53 PM
Just got this letter from the Liberal leader Mike...

Chris --

It’s another step towards an open and competitive internet in Canada, and it's thanks to you.

Late last night, news broke that Tony Clement will ask the Canadian Radio and Telecommunications Commission (CRTC) to reverse their decision on usage-based internet billing – a decision that allows internet service providers to impose download limits and new fees.

Our work is not yet done. We need to keep up the pressure until the CRTC’s decision is reversed once and for all.

Canadian families and businesses need open, affordable, unlimited internet access. The future of our economy depends on it. The Conservative government should have known that from the start.

When messages like yours reached us this past weekend – on Twitter and Facebook, by email, phone and fax – my Liberal colleagues and I knew what we had to do.

On Tuesday morning, we sided with you against the CRTC’s decision. By the end of the day, Liberal MPs on the Industry Committee had already begun an investigation. Then, yesterday, we kept the pressure on the Conservative government during Question Period in the House of Commons. At tonight’s meeting of the Industry Committee, Liberal MPs will tell CRTC Chair Konrad von Finckenstein to reverse course.

This isn't the first time that you’ve stared down the Conservatives over an open internet — and that's why tens of thousands of you visited our action page at http://www.liberal.ca/ubb/ (http://metrics.mmailhost.com/?r=MTAwMg0KSjQ2NTg3LUxQQy0xLTcyMS0NCjEwMzgwNTMNCjE xMDAwMDAwMDFiN2MxMw0KaHR0cDovL2xwYy5jYS91YmJlbQ0Kd HJ1ZQ0KY25pZW1pNUBob3RtYWlsLmNvbQ%3d%3d), to join our digital policy email list and help carry the fight into Parliament.

This is your movement. You rallied on Twitter. You wrote emails and called Tony Clement’s office. You made the difference.

We all know that there are wider issues at stake here. After five years of Stephen Harper, Canada still has no digital plan. The Conservatives’ proposed copyright bill contains unfair digital lock provisions. Canadians are less connected and face higher internet costs than citizens of other OECD countries. And don’t even get me started on the long-form census.

Liberals have been engaged on these issues. In 2009, we worked with the Openmedia.ca / Save Our Net Coalition on Net Neutrality, a position that we support wholeheartedly. Last fall, we announced our Open Government Initiative, which will make government data accessible to all Canadians.

At the heart of our digital policy is a core Liberal value: we must make Canada more competitive and more innovative. That means expanding high-speed internet access to every region of the country, fair and equitable wholesale access, and transparent pricing.

We must build a digital strategy for Canada that embraces the energy, entrepreneurial spirit, and innovative creativity of consumers, businesses and digital influencers like you.

We'll keep the pressure on the Conservatives in Parliament to make sure they follow through and reverse the CRTC’s decision on usage-based billing. This victory is just a taste of what we can accomplish, if we continue this fight together.

I hope you’ll join the Liberal Party's digital policy email list at http://www.liberal.ca/ubb/ (http://metrics.mmailhost.com/?r=MTAwMg0KSjQ2NTg3LUxQQy0xLTcyMS0NCjEwMzgwNTMNCjE xMDAwMDAwMDFiN2MxMw0KaHR0cDovL2xwYy5jYS91YmJlbQ0Kd HJ1ZQ0KY25pZW1pNUBob3RtYWlsLmNvbQ%3d%3d). Let’s build a more open, more competitive future for Canada.

Thank you for being engaged.

Michael Ignatieff

Hans
02-03-2011, 06:57 PM
Who are you going to change to?

Options would be Vianet if I wish to stick with cable, or any DSL provider if I want to go the DSL route.
I can't locate anything on Vianet about any surcharges if you go past the Data Transfer Limit, and they have not responded to my e-mail inquiries about it.
DSL I can go with any I wish, so it's just a matter of locating one that meets my needs.

8th
02-05-2011, 12:40 PM
http://www.cnn.com/2011/OPINION/02/05/rushkoff.egypt.internet/index.html?hpt=C1

1337
02-06-2011, 04:11 PM
Options would be Vianet if I wish to stick with cable, or any DSL provider if I want to go the DSL route.
I can't locate anything on Vianet about any surcharges if you go past the Data Transfer Limit, and they have not responded to my e-mail inquiries about it.
DSL I can go with any I wish, so it's just a matter of locating one that meets my needs.


An additional dial-up account can be purchased for an extra $5.00 per month for 10 hours of access. Overtime is billed at $1.00 per hour.

They have one on their dial up. I think Shawn could answer that for you. He started another thread about UBB, so I doubt they do if he is fighting the good fight against UBB.

Hans
02-06-2011, 08:08 PM
I am not following you. Are you talking about charging per hour over 10 for dial-up accounts?
If you are that's time based billing, and would not apply to me since I would never purchase dial-up access.

NewCasa
02-06-2011, 08:19 PM
Options would be Vianet if I wish to stick with cable, or any DSL provider if I want to go the DSL route.
I can't locate anything on Vianet about any surcharges if you go past the Data Transfer Limit, and they have not responded to my e-mail inquiries about it.
DSL I can go with any I wish, so it's just a matter of locating one that meets my needs.

Vianet gets their service from across the river, right?

Hans
02-06-2011, 08:22 PM
I have no idea, but I believe the cable service comes directly from Shaw and they resell it.
I could be totally wrong, you would have to ask them.

Andre
02-06-2011, 11:27 PM
Unless things have change recently. As far as I know, if you order Vianet cable, a shaw tech shows up and if you order Vianet dsl a bell tech shows up.
I don't know if Vianet wholesales or resells shaw's service though?

Hans
02-08-2011, 05:26 PM
Looks like we have a (temporary) victory.

http://shaw.ca/Internet/New-Data-Usage/

D0bb3r
02-09-2011, 07:02 AM
Lets not sit back now ... push for what we really want, stop them from just taking a different road later on.
The same group behind this victory we all share now has its sights set on another target the CRTC itself !!


The CRTC just decided to let your Internet Service Provider put a meter on your Internet!

Bell Canada and other big telecom companies can now freely impose usage-based billing on independent Internet Service Providers (indie ISPs) and YOU. Big Telecom companies are obviously trying to gouge consumers, control the Internet market, and ensure that consumers continue to subscribe to their television services.

This means we're looking at a future where ISPs will charge per byte, the way they do with smart phones. If we allow this to happen Canadians will have no choice but to pay more for less Internet

Add your name to the list

URL to email: http://openmedia.ca/crtc
Share on Facebook: http://on.fb.me/eSfQBD
Tweet with Twitter: http://bit.ly/eaSB8C

tired-n-cranky
02-09-2011, 04:23 PM
Unless things have change recently. As far as I know, if you order Vianet cable, a shaw tech shows up and if you order Vianet dsl a bell tech shows up.
I don't know if Vianet wholesales or resells shaw's service though?

It is a wholesale access to the Shaw network via the TPIA Tariffs set out by the CRTC, similar to how they access Bell's DSL networks.

Andre
02-11-2011, 03:05 PM
lol, I just got this email from my ISP

"Effective March 1st we are going to move forward and make changes to
the Usage, but we're going to make it a positive one!

We are reinstating the Unlimited package but the 200GB package will be
changed... to 300GB! UBB is about Internet Costs, and as a result of
lower costs with our providers (Peer1, Lime Light, etc...), costs
outside our relationship with companies like Bell, we are extending
the savings on to you, the clients... Enjoy!
"

NewCasa
02-11-2011, 03:15 PM
lol, I just got this email from my ISP

"Effective March 1st we are going to move forward and make changes to
the Usage, but we're going to make it a positive one!

We are reinstating the Unlimited package but the 200GB package will be
changed... to 300GB! UBB is about Internet Costs, and as a result of
lower costs with our providers (Peer1, Lime Light, etc...), costs
outside our relationship with companies like Bell, we are extending
the savings on to you, the clients... Enjoy!
"

And now we would all like to know who is your ISP!

I emailed Shaw and told them that if they decided to go with usage caps I would withdraw not only my internet, but cable and phone as well. They sent me a nice reply telling me to go to a town hall meeting. I said no - they already had my answer and I didn't want to waste my time while some suit tried to sell me a bill of goods.

So it looks like I may be needing a new ISP....

Andre
02-14-2011, 11:24 PM
NewCasa

http://teksavvy.com/en/default.asp

They only have dsl here though.
My bill for internet and POTS with call display is $63.77 with tax

SmrtGrl
02-17-2011, 06:57 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q0ZGkqQvAVw