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Dragonfly
08-05-2011, 12:37 PM
http://www.peta.org/b/thepetafiles/archive/2011/08/04/could-we-please-stop-the-name-calling.aspx?c=pfs

What are your thoughts on this article about this article?

Larimar
08-05-2011, 02:52 PM
First I'll make it clear that 1) I don't support or respect PETA and two, I haven't read the article yet LOL. But I do have an opinion on no kill shelters.

There are no kill shelters who are great. They do not contribute to more deaths. Some have a lot of land, money, an dopportunity to take on animals and their ethical standards makes it so that they do not take on more than they can handle. For example, if you have a facility that has room for keeping ten dogs at one time then you know you can safely keep ten unwanted dogs without ever having to euthanize them.

Other shelters may have good intentions but will continue to take in animals to the extent that they can't care for them appropriately. A shelter has to understand and stick with their carrying capacity. Once you are out of resources or the animals are over running making it unsanitary and disease ridden (Basically creating more filth then can be cleaned appropriately and ethically) then you start to run into issues where the animals have to be put down anyways while also making animals livein their own filth and in crammed conditions and possibly un supervised (in teh cse of fights or accidents).

Each animal in an ideal shelter will have space, a clean environment that does not smell, and have no diseases spreading around.


Basically it comes down to, can the shelter say no? Can they turn away animals when they are over their carrying capacity? When does it become animal hording? Those that have the money, space and opportunity are very respectful people in my opinion.

TNT
08-05-2011, 03:35 PM
Kinda hard to keep an animal from "smelling" regardless of accomodation. Our dogs REEK and are bathed every week, but hey "$h!t" happens! :) Everything else is a great point made. While I support (and always will) TAAG, what happens when theres just too many cats????? They rely heavily on foster homes, but I mean, JEEEZ their week must suck!

Bill Nash
08-05-2011, 03:58 PM
Brings home the point I have tried to make several times. Society is changing. Just as we no longer have the need for typewriters, frisbees, walkie talkies, and correct spelling and grammar; domesticated pets have out-grown their usefulness. The article presents the statements people give when they bring in animals to a shelter, which only emphasizes that domesticated pets in today's society are a disposable commodity. Society's retreat from wanting a lifetime companion in a pet is creating millions of animals that are basically useless.

A reasonable solution (although the animal lovers will think it barbaric) is to use these unwanted animals for food for third world countries. I don't think a starving kid in Somalia cares whether his next meal is the upper thigh of Fido. We would rather spend millions of dollars on shelters who's only real solution is euthanasia, when we could literally save millions of HUMAN lives with these unwanted animals.

Humans think nothing of donating their bodies to science for the betterment of the world, yet the simple solution of using unwanted domestic animals to feed the world's hungry is foreign to them. Don't give me the argument that many of these people will not eat meat for social or religious reasons. If you are starving, any crap tastes like a gourmet meal, and you are thankful.

Larimar
08-05-2011, 04:34 PM
Kinda hard to keep an animal from "smelling" regardless of accomodation. Our dogs REEK and are bathed every week, but hey "$h!t" happens! :) Everything else is a great point made. While I support (and always will) TAAG, what happens when theres just too many cats????? They rely heavily on foster homes, but I mean, JEEEZ their week must suck!

When I discuss smell I am not reffering to a dogs natural odor but to smells created from having too many animals in one spot creating feces and an unclean place. Some animals smell regardless of how clean they are and as long as the environment and animal is clean and healthy, it's great! Yet once you have animals walking in their own feces, matted fur, and unclean conditions..you have a recipe for disaster.

Larimar
08-05-2011, 04:37 PM
Humans think nothing of donating their bodies to science for the betterment of the world, yet the simple solution of using unwanted domestic animals to feed the world's hungry is foreign to them. Don't give me the argument that many of these people will not eat meat for social or religious reasons. If you are starving, any crap tastes like a gourmet meal, and you are thankful.

The world isn't really out of food though anyways. There is already enough to go around. The problem with starvation is distribution not lack of food.

Bill Nash
08-05-2011, 04:45 PM
The world isn't really out of food though anyways. There is already enough to go around. The problem with starvation is distribution not lack of food.

Sorry, .... my bad, .... I forgot you are the 20 something year old expert on everything. Go to your "cabin" in the "forest" and count the bears, ...

Larimar
08-05-2011, 04:54 PM
Sorry, .... my bad, .... I forgot you are the 20 something year old expert on everything. Go to your "cabin" in the "forest" and count the bears, ...

1) I thought it was common sense that starvation is a distribution problem. Look at how much good food grocery stores throw out.

2) You have to drive almost an hour through forest to get to the cabin and you can't go on a hike without reflectors during the fall hunting season. I'm pretty sure there's bears there smarty ;)

I'm betting you actually agree with me on this matter and your just bored.

Bill Nash
08-06-2011, 01:56 AM
Larimar in bold;
I thought it was common sense that starvation is a distribution problem. Look at how much good food grocery stores throw out.

What does grocery stores throwing out food have to do with global starvation. The food they throw out is spoiled. Its not a distribution problem in as much as it is a graft problem. By the time all the bureaucracy takes its share, there is never enough left to distribute.

2) You have to drive almost an hour through forest to get to the cabin and you can't go on a hike without reflectors during the fall hunting season. I'm pretty sure there's bears there smarty ;)

If you left a trail of crackers, you wouldn't get lost and have to drive for an hour! ;) Reflectors or not, not really a good idea to go hiking in the "forest" during hunting season. Try doing like everyone else, and forgo the reflectors for a simple orange vest like the rest of the experienced outdoors people, .... or are these high-test reflectors the ones Bwana used to ward off lions in Africa?

I'm betting you actually agree with me on this matter and your just bored.

How can I agree with you, ... there would be no point in posting, ... right? (see alter-ego/personality clarification in other thread) :)

Larimar
08-06-2011, 02:04 AM
Larimar in bold;
I thought it was common sense that starvation is a distribution problem. Look at how much good food grocery stores throw out.

What does grocery stores throwing out food have to do with global starvation. The food they throw out is spoiled. Its not a distribution problem in as much as it is a graft problem. By the time all the bureaucracy takes its share, there is never enough left to distribute.


Stores have an experation date. Look at your bread the day it is "expired". If its not moldy-which it won't be. It's still fine. Grocery stores throw out a lot of food that is fine because of our laws. It is a distribution problem and you can google that yourself I'm sure.I t's readibly available as one of the major factors of hunger. But I'm to dang lazy to get the sources for yah

2) You have to drive almost an hour through forest to get to the cabin and you can't go on a hike without reflectors during the fall hunting season. I'm pretty sure there's bears there smarty ;)

If you left a trail of crackers, you wouldn't get lost and have to drive for an hour! ;) Reflectors or not, not really a good idea to go hiking in the "forest" during hunting season. Try doing like everyone else, and forgo the reflectors for a simple orange vest like the rest of the experienced outdoors people, .... or are these high-test reflectors the ones Bwana used to ward off lions in Africa?

LOl. okay all I can do is laugh. because for once your funny. And yes I meant reflector, as in an orange vest-which reflects.
And you are really struck by that stick comment aint yah? It surprised me too *shrugs* .
I'm betting you actually agree with me on this matter and your just bored.

How can I agree with you, ... there would be no point in posting, ... right? (see alter-ego/personality clarification in other thread) :)


Well..that is true...You seem very concerned with your reputation on here. i don't get it though.

gouligann
08-06-2011, 07:21 AM
I was looking through the pet section at Sootoday.com this morning and was thinking to myself how many people were trying to find a "good" home for their "beloved" dogs. Giving them up because of: too little time, too little room to run, moving, etc. My question is why they even get animals in the first place? Do they think these dogs are like stuffed toys that don't grow any larger, need feeding, walking, and at least have a yard to run around in.

I felt like posting a nasty ranting note on there in Sootoday, but it would just get deleted and it probably wouldn't stop them and other idiots from getting dogs (and cats) they won't keep.

No kill shelters are a good thing if they have room and the animals are healthy, happy and they have a qualified staff to care for them. BUT: only if they have a license and are government inspected.

Regular shelters fill a need of caring for unwanted animals where there is no alternative. Unfortunately, with a lot of idiots (like the ones I mentioned above) there are too many animals brought in to keep them all. Euthanasia is at least better than these animals being hit by cars, neglected or starved.

Larimar
08-06-2011, 10:41 AM
With any situation the source of the problem has to also be dealt with before anything will happen. Kinda treat the "disease: not the symptons thing. When someone wants to help it may probably do good to not only hav ea shelter but get educational /awareness programs out there. Designer dogs, puppymills, backyard breeders, breeds that suit your life, etc are all important topics.

Joy.D
08-06-2011, 06:53 PM
Sometimes people need to rehome their animals because their situation has changed and they are trying to think of their pet and what is best for them.

On the other hand sometimes people are getting rid of their animals because the novelty of that cute little puppy has worn off and they are having issues because the untrained cute little puppy has turned into a untrained full grown dog and they don't want it any more...then they go and buy another cute little puppy and ruin yet another dog for someone to take on.

kitca
08-08-2011, 09:51 AM
i thought it was a good article. it is very true we are totally overpopulated with pets. that is the real problem, if there was more spay & neuter there wouldnt be so many throw away pets. education is part of that - i dont know how many people i come across who think its mean to cut their dogs balls off. they just dont understand, or they think that because they found 'good' homes for thier pets litter that everything is all ok. (but its not ok, because if 1 or 2 of those from the litter are allowed to reproduce ... ... you get the picture - how many dozens or hundreds come from that one ?)

we also (not just here, but everywhere) need access to affordable spay & neuter.

and on the article, i do support peta. not everything, but alot of what they do. i think their undercover investigators are incredible and shed lite on situations that would never be known. they bring up topics in a way that gets people to at least talk about them and be aware, they have a wonderful campaign on right now for doghouses - to help those dogs in the scorching heat with no shade then in the freezing winter with no shelter. i also think alot of wackjobs get shoved into the peta category when they have nothing to do with peta they are just voicing or demonstrating an animal issue.

edited to add: i very much agree with gouligann and to further that thought. i wish there was a free help line here for people and their pet problems. somewhere they could call and get the correct information in dealing with their puppy problems. i know the shelter has videos and books but do people know they are available. some people just wont get a book or search the internet or find the right person to ask, but if there was something more educational and free out there for them to access maybe it would help.

I Wonder Why
08-09-2011, 10:49 AM
Reading this article and the mission statement of our local Humane Society, it is quite clear they are doing an outstanding job. This is why I will continue to support the HS.

Larimar
08-09-2011, 12:05 PM
Reading this article and the mission statement of our local Humane Society, it is quite clear they are doing an outstanding job. This is why I will continue to support the HS.

I will as well. They do the best they can and the cages are clean. I've seen a lot worse.