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Larimar
09-20-2011, 03:00 PM
The don't ask don't tell rule has been repealed for the army in the US


http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/nationnow/2011/09/dont-ask-dont-tell-officially-repealed.html

8th
09-20-2011, 06:41 PM
http://img231.imageshack.us/img231/7425/wormsk.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/231/wormsk.jpg/)

Larimar
09-20-2011, 06:45 PM
I think this is agood thing. Something Obama promised to do and acted on.

:)

RWGR
09-20-2011, 06:46 PM
I think this is agood thing. Something Obama promised to do and acted on.

:)

Only slightly less rare than a unicorn.

Larimar
09-20-2011, 07:12 PM
Only slightly less rare than a unicorn.
true. right down to the dog he told people he'd rescue and never did

Soonet-china
09-21-2011, 12:30 AM
Like honey, did you cheat on me ? Dont ask , dont tell

ArcticBlue
09-21-2011, 01:01 AM
Like honey, did you cheat on me ? Dont ask , dont tell

How inappropriate, considering the true meaning of DADT. The people who benefit from this have given up a lot in their lives for their countries and they can finally be true to themselves. Maybe if you didn't have that freedom, you'd be a little more sensitive to the subject.

dancingqueen
09-21-2011, 08:41 AM
I think this is agood thing. Something Obama promised to do and acted on.

:)

This is just something that had to happen as times change.
From what I have read about DADT was that it was first implemented in around the 60's because prior to that military officials would investigate and essentially harass people if they caught wind that someone may have the gay. This was during a time when people where afraid of the gays what with AIDS being transferable via touch and whatnot, Furthermore, that the gays had no control over their sexual appetite and apparently had to have sex with anything with a *****, and this was an uncontrollable urge. Well, back then, there where no women really in the army, and times would get lonely... either that, or there where a lot of the gays in the military at the time. Lots of people would be accused of homosexual activity, since there is no army when you discharge everyone, thus began DADT Initially it was a loop hole created to allow the gays to serve. Now that that is no longer necessary, since we now know that the gays can control their sexual urges, and that you cannot get AIDS from touching DADT is pointless and unnecessary as well.

Interesting tidbit, apparently USA was the only country in the world that forbade the gays from serving...

italiandomino
09-21-2011, 04:25 PM
maybe the US should allow pink camo clothing for those wonderful military men and women who are serving, that way the enemy knows who is a good solider and who will be the prison B*tch when captured.

italiandomino
09-21-2011, 04:30 PM
I dont understand the need for gay ppl to be out in the open ?? really .. i watched the news and all of the sudden military ppl are "my name is ______ and I am gay".

like really. Who cares.

Your in a squad of 20 guys and your the only gay one, guess who the other 19 are going to sacrifice first. In a culture where being in the military is cool and tough and macho .. why would you want to be prouncing (sp) around wearing your pink camo uniform when there are angry terrorists who are looking for a good target. I dont get it.

dancingqueen
09-21-2011, 06:23 PM
It's easy for a straight man to say "why do gay people need to be out in the open" How many times at work do you say things like "my wife" or "her parents" etc... don't pretend you don't, everyone does it, for you it's insignificant and gets said without notice, but if you're not straight it is very noticeable and is kinda a big deal. You are in a privileged position regarding this, and it's full ramifications are insignificant at most for you. must be nice to be able to make such judgments from your position.

dancingqueen
09-21-2011, 06:24 PM
and as I have found out... the USA is the only country IN THE WORLD to have ever made this discrimination, your presumptions about other solders sacrificing the gay ones first is not only ridiculous, but also ignorant and kinda disgusting.

BFLPE
09-21-2011, 06:38 PM
From what I have read about DADT was that it was first implemented in around the 60's because prior...Wrong.


Interesting tidbit, apparently USA was the only country in the world that forbade the gays from serving...Wrong.

Most, if not all countries have kept homosexuals out of the Military at some point. Canada didn't allow them until fairly recently actually. As for DADT it was a Clinton era compromise.

dancingqueen
09-21-2011, 06:48 PM
Wrong.
Sorry, you'r right, I must have gotten the date mixed with something else, It was '93 (now what was I thinking about?)


Most, if not all countries have kept homosexuals out of the Military at some point. Canada didn't allow them until fairly recently actually. As for DADT it was a Clinton era compromise.\
That's what I read from the Wikipedia article. I know it is not completely reliable, that's why the "apparently"
Do you happen to have a source? Just for curiosity's sake.
Thanks
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Don't_ask,_don't_tell

BFLPE
09-21-2011, 06:59 PM
http://www.nytimes.com/1991/10/11/world/canada-ending-anti-gay-army-rules.html

That link is for Canada. It was a charter challenge that led to the change. Many countries wouldn't allow it at some point due to homosexuality being considered a mental disorder. The info isn't hard to find though the one that might interest you is the results of a study by the US on the effects of the lifting of it by Canada. Not sure why the US has resisted for so long.

http://www.palmcenter.org/press/dadt/releases/study_finds_gays_do_not_undermine_canadian_militar y_performance

italiandomino
09-21-2011, 07:25 PM
It's easy for a straight man to say "why do gay people need to be out in the open" How many times at work do you say things like "my wife" or "her parents" etc... don't pretend you don't, everyone does it, for you it's insignificant and gets said without notice, but if you're not straight it is very noticeable and is kinda a big deal. You are in a privileged position regarding this, and it's full ramifications are insignificant at most for you. must be nice to be able to make such judgments from your position.

I am not married so i cant say my wife .. and it is her parents .. i dont see your point.

what do you say DQ ? what do you refer to your bf as ? or his parents ?

italiandomino
09-21-2011, 07:27 PM
and as I have found out... the USA is the only country IN THE WORLD to have ever made this discrimination, your presumptions about other solders sacrificing the gay ones first is not only ridiculous, but also ignorant and kinda disgusting.

I dont see it as being discriminating at all. And I do apoligize for disgusting you, but guy on guy stuff disgusts me. if you find that discriminating, i am sure i will get over it. But I still think your a pretty good guy DQ

Soonet-china
09-21-2011, 07:30 PM
most work places dont care what your orientation is, please stop making it an issue or a topic of conversation !

dancingqueen
09-22-2011, 01:13 AM
I am not married so i cant say my wife .. and it is her parents .. i dont see your point.

what do you say DQ ? what do you refer to your bf as ? or his parents ?

Semantics. You discuss your girlfriend and whatnot.
What do I call my BF? I call him my boyfriend... If I had one.
My point being, it is easy, and goes without much notice if you say something like "oh yah, my girlfriend and I went to go see this movie, it was really good." The focus of your conversation is around what movie was it, was it any good, etc... If I say "oh yah, my boyfriend and I went to go see this movie, it was really good." the focus is but your a guy, so your gay? please don't shove your lifestyle down my throat etc... it may not be said, but it is the attitude. As such, you are in a privileged position to be asking "what does it matter?" you see this issue from your perspective as being part of the norm, you do not see it from the perspective of the group you criticize who are outside the norm.

dancingqueen
09-22-2011, 01:15 AM
guy on girl stuff disgusts me, and that goes for guys objectifying women like you frequently do. However, I don't make such horrible and unfounded remarks. I still think you are a good guy too, but many of your opinions lack perspective and clarity.

dancingqueen
09-22-2011, 01:21 AM
most work places dont care what your orientation is, please stop making it an issue or a topic of conversation !

Then don't make your orientation an issue or topic of conversation....
oh... and don't make an issue out of mine, or other people's....

Soonet-china
09-22-2011, 08:15 AM
I never made an issue out of anyones orientation, everyone should be accepted for who they are, its nobodys business, it doesnt matter what you are is the point.

RWGR
09-22-2011, 09:05 AM
and as I have found out... the USA is the only country IN THE WORLD to have ever made this discrimination, your presumptions about other solders sacrificing the gay ones first is not only ridiculous, but also ignorant and kinda disgusting.

I wonder if there is a correlation to the U.S. having the best fighting force all those years, too.

Just wondering...

italiandomino
09-22-2011, 10:44 AM
now they will be fighting to get pink camo in there, will def ruin their reputation.

gouligann
09-22-2011, 11:25 AM
Sorry, this is long, but this is what I think:

I think gay people are mostly relieved that they can finally come out, but are also nervous because they still feel different from the norm. There is still a lot of prejudism in the world. They feel normal and comfortable in places where gays socialize because they are surrounded by peers.

I also think that if their orientation happens to come out during normal conversations and they don't make a big deal out of it, people will just carry on and also not make a big deal out of it.

I have a relative who is gay. and although his immediate family supports him, they are scared for him and DO make a big deal out of it. I have suggested that if they just act normal and carry on, stop making a huge deal out of it and the attention won't BE on him. Special attention wasn't on him before he came out, so why should it be after he came out? He's still the same person, still acts the same, and they are creating this "scaredy cat" feeling that affects him and makes him feel even more segregated and different.
On the other hand, I have a few friends who are gay and they feel and act totally normal. They don't hide their orientation and are comfortable with themselves and it makes other people feel comfortable around them.

What I DO think hurts gay people and keeps prejudism alive and well, is the flamboyant parades and those that flaunt it on the street corners. What's the point? It says to me: "look at me, I'm gay"!!!! That kind of thing IMO hurts gay people who just want to live simple lives after coming out.
It is like saying that ALL Muslims are bad because Muslim terrorists bring a lot of attention to the race. Now we all know that all Muslims are not terrorists, and although it shouldn't happen, multitudes are prejudiced against the whole Muslim race because of the huge attention the terrorists get. Just the same as most gays don't prance down the street in pink tu=tus, but many people will think of the attention seekers when the word gay arises.



Some day, I hope gays don't have to think twice, be concerned, uncomfortable, embarrassed, or especially nervous of stating their orientation. With the way the world is changing, I think this will become a reality before too long. This is the way life is now, and that's the way it's going to be, and can only get better IMO.

bilbo79
09-22-2011, 02:11 PM
There is so much WTF??? in your post that I'm not going to take the time to point it all out but I would say the main causes of prejudice have more to do with jealousy, ignorance and environment than with a parade. And if they all want to wear pink tutu's then that's awesome for them.


Sorry, this is long, but this is what I think:

I think gay people are mostly relieved that they can finally come out, but are also nervous because they still feel different from the norm. There is still a lot of prejudism in the world. They feel normal and comfortable in places where gays socialize because they are surrounded by peers.

I also think that if their orientation happens to come out during normal conversations and they don't make a big deal out of it, people will just carry on and also not make a big deal out of it.

I have a relative who is gay. and although his immediate family supports him, they are scared for him and DO make a big deal out of it. I have suggested that if they just act normal and carry on, stop making a huge deal out of it and the attention won't BE on him. Special attention wasn't on him before he came out, so why should it be after he came out? He's still the same person, still acts the same, and they are creating this "scaredy cat" feeling that affects him and makes him feel even more segregated and different.
On the other hand, I have a few friends who are gay and they feel and act totally normal. They don't hide their orientation and are comfortable with themselves and it makes other people feel comfortable around them.

What I DO think hurts gay people and keeps prejudism alive and well, is the flamboyant parades and those that flaunt it on the street corners. What's the point? It says to me: "look at me, I'm gay"!!!! That kind of thing IMO hurts gay people who just want to live simple lives after coming out.
It is like saying that ALL Muslims are bad because Muslim terrorists bring a lot of attention to the race. Now we all know that all Muslims are not terrorists, and although it shouldn't happen, multitudes are prejudiced against the whole Muslim race because of the huge attention the terrorists get. Just the same as most gays don't prance down the street in pink tu=tus, but many people will think of the attention seekers when the word gay arises.



Some day, I hope gays don't have to think twice, be concerned, uncomfortable, embarrassed, or especially nervous of stating their orientation. With the way the world is changing, I think this will become a reality before too long. This is the way life is now, and that's the way it's going to be, and can only get better IMO.

gouligann
09-22-2011, 02:59 PM
Re:"There is so much WTF??? in your post that I'm not going to take the time to point it all out but I would say the main causes of prejudice have more to do with jealousy, ignorance and environment than with a parade. And if they all want to wear pink tutu's then that's awesome for them."

Hey, I don't give a damned if they wear nothing at all, but if they
1) don't want the attention and title of being "gay"
2) feel that they are treated differently than other people
then prancing down the street wearing a pink tu=tu just isn't quite the outfit to wear.

Unless people don't want to receive attention, then they shouldn't ask for it. The squeeky wheel gets the grease.

Barry Morris
09-22-2011, 03:19 PM
I wonder if there is a correlation to the U.S. having the best fighting force all those years, too.

Just wondering...

No, there wouldn't be a correlation. Couldn't be, in fact.

A big gun doesn't make one a man.

italiandomino
09-22-2011, 03:35 PM
A big gun doesn't make one a man.

Sure does make it more convincing.

italiandomino
09-22-2011, 03:37 PM
There is so much WTF??? in your post that I'm not going to take the time to point it all out but I would say the main causes of prejudice have more to do with jealousy, ignorance and environment than with a parade. And if they all want to wear pink tutu's then that's awesome for them.

jealous of what ???
Just because we dont give a crap about them .. that is being ignorant ??

dancingqueen
09-22-2011, 04:32 PM
I also think that if their orientation happens to come out during normal conversations and they don't make a big deal out of it, people will just carry on and also not make a big deal out of it.

I have a relative who is gay. and although his immediate family supports him, they are scared for him and DO make a big deal out of it. I have suggested that if they just act normal and carry on, stop making a huge deal out of it and the attention won't BE on him. Special attention wasn't on him before he came out, so why should it be after he came out? He's still the same person, still acts the same, and they are creating this "scaredy cat" feeling that affects him and makes him feel even more segregated and different.

So, you think that if people don't make a big deal of it, then conversations will flow normally... Then you follow up with an example of the opposite case?
You don't know what it's like, words are not the only form of communication. You know a guy who lives like this, I do live like this. In mixed company, do I say my partner and I, do I pretend my boyfriend is my friend and we just hang out? Or do I come right out and say it. People do not carry on as normal, we just don't. I don't even, it's been socialized into all of us. anyone that says otherwise is lying to themselves or to everyone else.

dancingqueen
09-22-2011, 04:34 PM
Re:"There is so much WTF??? in your post that I'm not going to take the time to point it all out but I would say the main causes of prejudice have more to do with jealousy, ignorance and environment than with a parade. And if they all want to wear pink tutu's then that's awesome for them."

Hey, I don't give a damned if they wear nothing at all, but if they
1) don't want the attention and title of being "gay"
2) feel that they are treated differently than other people
then prancing down the street wearing a pink tu=tu just isn't quite the outfit to wear.

Unless people don't want to receive attention, then they shouldn't ask for it. The squeeky wheel gets the grease.

That's just like saying "if you don't wanna get raped, don't dress that way"
Maybe some people like wearing pink.... I like the color... heaven forbid people wear what they feel comfortable in and not be labeled as seeking attention...

gouligann
09-22-2011, 06:41 PM
So, you think that if people don't make a big deal of it, then conversations will flow normally... Then you follow up with an example of the opposite case?
You don't know what it's like, words are not the only form of communication. You know a guy who lives like this, I do live like this. In mixed company, do I say my partner and I, do I pretend my boyfriend is my friend and we just hang out? Or do I come right out and say it. People do not carry on as normal, we just don't. I don't even, it's been socialized into all of us. anyone that says otherwise is lying to themselves or to everyone else.

I'm not understanding where my "example of the opposite case" is?

In mixed company, sure why not say "my partner" DQ? He IS your partner. If you aren't afraid of homophobic comments and are proud of yourself and him, then act it. Can you not just say it and carry on without it becoming an issue at the time you say it? Are people so thoughtless? (I truly don't know, I'm not being sarcastic) It isn't as if you are so totally unique being gay these days. I'm like, "who cares" when I am introduced to a gay person?
Maybe you imagine that people are aghast at the thought of being around a gay man? Maybe they are? Most likely they aren't, but if they don't like it, then they can depart the conversation (unless being with a gay person (OH MY) is part of their job, family, etc) I say to hell with them, just focus on who you are and on being a good person, not on who you go home with.


Re: the pink comment. "if you don't wanna get raped, don't dress that way"

No, more like if you dress up like a tramp, then you get labeled as one. (no one EVER asks to be raped by the clothes they wear)
If you dress like a clown then people assume you are a clown. If you dress in a tu-tu, and prance down the street, then of course people will assume you are gay. Just saying...

I wear pink, male friends and relatives wear pink shirts, and I certainly don't look think geeze, they're gay because they wear pink. It's the tu-tu that kind of lets the cat out of the bag lol.

dancingqueen
09-22-2011, 07:17 PM
I'm not understanding where my "example of the opposite case" is?

In mixed company, sure why not say "my partner" DQ? He IS your partner. If you aren't afraid of homophobic comments and are proud of yourself and him, then act it. Can you not just say it and carry on without it becoming an issue at the time you say it? Are people so thoughtless? (I truly don't know, I'm not being sarcastic) It isn't as if you are so totally unique being gay these days. I'm like, "who cares" when I am introduced to a gay person?
Maybe you imagine that people are aghast at the thought of being around a gay man? Maybe they are? Most likely they aren't, but if they don't like it, then they can depart the conversation (unless being with a gay person (OH MY) is part of their job, family, etc) I say to hell with them, just focus on who you are and on being a good person, not on who you go home with.


Re: the pink comment. "if you don't wanna get raped, don't dress that way"

No, more like if you dress up like a tramp, then you get labeled as one. (no one EVER asks to be raped by the clothes they wear)
If you dress like a clown then people assume you are a clown. If you dress in a tu-tu, and prance down the street, then of course people will assume you are gay. Just saying...

I wear pink, male friends and relatives wear pink shirts, and I certainly don't look think geeze, they're gay because they wear pink. It's the tu-tu that kind of lets the cat out of the bag lol.

Your relative gets treated very differently even though they don't make it an issue....
"My partner"???? no, because he is not my "partner" I work on projects with a "partner" I play tennis with a "partner" do you call your significant other your "partner"? do most people? no.

and since when do tu-tu's have anything to do with people of the same gender that enjoy sexual relationships??? I relate tu-tu's to ballet, what that has to do with being gay, I don't have a clue.
I know many other gay people that have no interest in ballet... or pink for that matter....

dancingqueen
09-22-2011, 08:31 PM
Don't ask don't tell was a good policy. No one should care about someone else's sexuality. Why do gays have the need to be able to go parading around making it known they're gay?

Same reason straight people do the same. some do it more than others, but people take pride in who they are, and pride makes people "parade around" in various areas of who they are.

Dragonfly
09-22-2011, 09:06 PM
I dont understand the need for gay ppl to be out in the open ?? really .. i watched the news and all of the sudden military ppl are "my name is ______ and I am gay".

like really. Who cares.

Your in a squad of 20 guys and your the only gay one, guess who the other 19 are going to sacrifice first. In a culture where being in the military is cool and tough and macho .. why would you want to be prouncing (sp) around wearing your pink camo uniform when there are angry terrorists who are looking for a good target. I dont get it.

Seriously? Then I ask wth italians got on the friggen boat

gouligann
09-22-2011, 10:18 PM
Your relative gets treated very differently even though they don't make it an issue....
"My partner"???? no, because he is not my "partner" I work on projects with a "partner" I play tennis with a "partner" do you call your significant other your "partner"? do most people? no.
Ok, so call him whatever you want, (that's something you two need to figure out what to publicly call each other) but don't hide it and don't be ashamed, worried or embarrassed, is what I'm trying to say.

and since when do tu-tu's have anything to do with people of the same gender that enjoy sexual relationships??? I relate tu-tu's to ballet, what that has to do with being gay, I don't have a clue.
I know many other gay people that have no interest in ballet... or pink for that matter....

RE: and since when do tu-tu's have anything to do with people of the same gender that enjoy sexual relationships???
I meant the ones in pink tu=tu's in a gay parade, not on stage.

My relative gets treated differently because they DO make it an issue. It is his parents who are scared that he will be singled out should he ever move back to the Soo. I say, if he comes back, just for him to act himself, not to dwell on the fact that he is gay, and no one will give a shiat. They are just instilling this fear of living in a smaller community into him by worrying about and voicing those issues to him. It's like trying to hide it either from fear or embarrassment, which does nothing for his orientation or ego. Back into the closet you go, safely living in another big city.

dancingqueen
09-23-2011, 01:59 AM
RE: and since when do tu-tu's have anything to do with people of the same gender that enjoy sexual relationships???
I meant the ones in pink tu=tu's in a gay parade, not on stage.
People wear other things in a parade... does that make them gay in nature???
I don't understand what you are trying to say here then. I mean, if they are in a parade, then they clearly want attention... That's what parades are for....


My relative gets treated differently because they DO make it an issue. It is his parents who are scared that he will be singled out should he ever move back to the Soo. I say, if he comes back, just for him to act himself, not to dwell on the fact that he is gay, and no one will give a shiat. They are just instilling this fear of living in a smaller community into him by worrying about and voicing those issues to him. It's like trying to hide it either from fear or embarrassment, which does nothing for his orientation or ego. Back into the closet you go, safely living in another big city.

Your relative does not make their sexuality an issue, but others still do... How does this do anything but dispel your thought that if gay people don't make their sexuality an issue others won't?

gouligann
09-23-2011, 07:52 AM
People wear other things in a parade... does that make them gay in nature???
I don't understand what you are trying to say here then. I mean, if they are in a parade, then they clearly want attention... That's what parades are for....



Your relative does not make their sexuality an issue, but others still do... How does this do anything but dispel your thought that if gay people don't make their sexuality an issue others won't?

Ok, I can't go further with this, since I'm not knowledged enough.

dancingqueen
09-23-2011, 11:13 AM
Ok, I can't go further with this, since I'm not knowledged enough.

This has nothing to do with knowledge, this is about supporting your opinion, why do you think the way you do. I realize it is uncomfortable to think critically like that, (not trying to be condescending here) but doing so gives you so much better perspective on things.

SIMBA
09-23-2011, 11:27 AM
Gay rights...of course. Everyone has a right to do whatever the hell they want or choose whatever they want. What they don't have IS THE RIGHT TO PUSH THE ISSUE UPON THOSE THAT DON'T ACCEPT IT!

dancingqueen
09-23-2011, 11:39 AM
Gay rights...of course. Everyone has a right to do whatever the hell they want or choose whatever they want. What they don't have IS THE RIGHT TO PUSH THE ISSUE UPON THOSE THAT DON'T ACCEPT IT!

This is true
(accept)
:tongue:

SIMBA
09-23-2011, 11:54 AM
lol :)

dancingqueen
09-23-2011, 11:57 AM
And don't you forget it!

dancingqueen
09-24-2011, 06:24 PM
I have never known a straight person to take pride in the fact that they're straight. Nor have I ever known a straight person who made a point of letting others know that they're straight.

Yes you do, difference is that for you it's a part of everyday life and goes without notice, for me it is not and is very noticed.

Barry Morris
09-24-2011, 09:36 PM
Taking pride in something that's part of everyday life??

One of those things that makes you say, "Hmmmmm...?"

Larimar
09-24-2011, 10:47 PM
Most supressed people have something that helps them feel pride once a year as a reminder to stay confident and open about their culture or who they are. A parade, a day dedicated to them, a university award in their name...It's not like gay people are the only group.

"I have never known a straight person to take pride in the fact that they're straight. Nor have I ever known a straight person who made a point of letting others know that they're straight."

They do make it known. It's in our language. Homosexuals and Lesbians were supressed for a long time making it difficult to use language as you would. "gf" "bf" ..They probably can't even hold hands without eyes watching them like they are two headed with dear antlers on their head. They have no real peace yet because society is only slowly getting used to the idea again. Whether people agree with it or not..it shouldn't turn heads anymore...yet it does.

RWGR
09-25-2011, 12:02 AM
Here's the best part: if this had anything to do with the Canadian Military, it would be sent to "Politics" right away.

Oscar_Leroy
09-27-2011, 12:21 AM
I know I'm joining this conversation late but I have a few things to say.

I don't see what is wrong with a member of the gay community openly discussing their sexual orientation or relationships, providing no intimate details are shared (I do not like discussing intimate details regardless of sexual orientation). I have had the pleasure of working with a few gay people, who were comfortable being who they are, and they are great people because of it.

We all discuss our significant others to some extent. Why should gay people not have this same right? We are free to be who we want, as long as it doesn't offend any of the "normal" people out there. It's really sad because if we stopped being so damn narrow-minded, we would allow ourselves to get to know some great people we would otherwise shun because of their "abnormalities".

Just my two cents

Barry Morris
09-27-2011, 08:59 AM
... It's really sad because if we stopped being so damn narrow-minded, we would allow ourselves to get to know some great people we would otherwise shun because of their "abnormalities".


In my experience with gays, it's not me that's pulling back, its them assuming my actions and reactions.

I disagree with the lifestyles of a lot of different people, but I don't shun them because of it.

dancingqueen
09-27-2011, 12:45 PM
In my experience with gays, it's not me that's pulling back, its them assuming my actions and reactions.

I disagree with the lifestyles of a lot of different people, but I don't shun them because of it.

I know it''s hard to believe.... Now bear with me here...
okay...
It's not all about you.
How easy do you think it is to open up to someone who may or may not have appropriate reactions when you are used to the inappropriate reactions happening all the time?

Barry Morris
09-27-2011, 03:53 PM
I believe it happens to you, but in most situations in life its:

a: no reaction because they don't know about your orientation.

B: no reaction because they already know you well enough.

c: bad reaction

The question in my mind about "c" is is how did they find out??

Larimar
09-27-2011, 04:33 PM
I believe it happens to you, but in most situations in life its:

a: no reaction because they don't know about your orientation.

B: no reaction because they already know you well enough.

c: bad reaction

The question in my mind about "c" is is how did they find out??
Why would it matter how they found out. Why on Earth should any group of souls live in secrecy? They have a right to say "my boyfriend" my "girlfriend" without persecution.

the fact that you even have to ask that last question " how did they find out??" shows you how screwed up we are when people can't be themselves for fear. The very fact that you asked that shows you aren't ready to hear people be open about it so obviously many others aren't either-which leaves gays to be hidden. That's unfair.

Barry Morris
09-27-2011, 07:43 PM
Why would it matter how they found out. Why on Earth should any group of souls live in secrecy? They have a right to say "my boyfriend" my "girlfriend" without persecution.

the fact that you even have to ask that last question " how did they find out??" shows you how screwed up we are when people can't be themselves for fear. The very fact that you asked that shows you aren't ready to hear people be open about it so obviously many others aren't either-which leaves gays to be hidden. That's unfair.

I repeat, how did they find out?? I'm saying that normal conversation did NOT bring it up.

As to what did, I leave it to your imagination.

Dragonfly
09-27-2011, 09:59 PM
I repeat, how did they find out?? I'm saying that normal conversation did NOT bring it up.

As to what did, I leave it to your imagination.

how did normal conversation not bring it up??

My boyfriend and I were cooking last night..
My boyfriend called me last night...
My girlfriend ticks me off sometimes...
My girlfriend's calling me....

Are you telling me that you have never in regular conversation made reference to your wife in any way shape or form?

Larimar
09-27-2011, 10:02 PM
how did normal conversation not bring it up??

My boyfriend and I were cooking last night..
My boyfriend called me last night...
My girlfriend ticks me off sometimes...
My girlfriend's calling me....

Are you telling me that you have never in regular conversation made reference to your wife in any way shape or form?

Exactly. Or I'm headed to Toronto. "Oh with who?" "my boyfriend" ...no need to even be the first to say it! Normal conversation is just that..normal..deliberately trying to hide or disguise a part of your life by avoiding conversation or avoiding questions is ridiculous. How would you, soundbear, feel if you couldnt talk about your wife due to fear ? That's horrible! You should be proud of your significant other and talk all you want. Have you no understanding of others feelings?

gouligann
09-28-2011, 06:51 PM
Exactly. Or I'm headed to Toronto. "Oh with who?" "my boyfriend" ...no need to even be the first to say it! Normal conversation is just that..normal..deliberately trying to hide or disguise a part of your life by avoiding conversation or avoiding questions is ridiculous. How would you, soundbear, feel if you couldnt talk about your wife due to fear ? That's horrible! You should be proud of your significant other and talk all you want. Have you no understanding of others feelings?


That's just it! I have deducted from DQ's replies to me, that he isn't comfortable with talking about his orientation to people in general (maybe other than his close friends). I imagine that this is from having bad reactions from people, but I say, to hell with what other people think and be proud of yourself, BE yourself.
It may be that this is just DQ's personality to be uncomfortable talking about it, because I had some gay friends years ago in Toronto (when I went to school way back when lol) who were very comfortable with it, and I have lesbian friends who don't even blink an eye about it. They just don't give a shiat what other people think and that's the way it should be. Maybe once upon a time they did, but they certainly don't now.

I think the more comfortable gay people are with themselves, the more comfortable non-gay people will be with them, and being gay becomes something that no one even thinks about.

I read this on facebook today, and I thought it was great advice: "Never sacrifice who you are just because someone has a problem with it!"

Dragonfly
09-28-2011, 08:42 PM
That's just it! I have deducted from DQ's replies to me, that he isn't comfortable with talking about his orientation to people in general (maybe other than his close friends). I imagine that this is from having bad reactions from people, but I say, to hell with what other people think and be proud of yourself, BE yourself.
It may be that this is just DQ's personality to be uncomfortable talking about it, because I had some gay friends years ago in Toronto (when I went to school way back when lol) who were very comfortable with it, and I have lesbian friends who don't even blink an eye about it. They just don't give a shiat what other people think and that's the way it should be. Maybe once upon a time they did, but they certainly don't now.

I think the more comfortable gay people are with themselves, the more comfortable non-gay people will be with them, and being gay becomes something that no one even thinks about.

I read this on facebook today, and I thought it was great advice: "Never sacrifice who you are just because someone has a problem with it!"

very well said

dancingqueen
09-29-2011, 01:58 AM
That's just it! I have deducted from DQ's replies to me, that he isn't comfortable with talking about his orientation to people in general (maybe other than his close friends). I imagine that this is from having bad reactions from people, but I say, to hell with what other people think and be proud of yourself, BE yourself.
It may be that this is just DQ's personality to be uncomfortable talking about it, because I had some gay friends years ago in Toronto (when I went to school way back when lol) who were very comfortable with it, and I have lesbian friends who don't even blink an eye about it. They just don't give a shiat what other people think and that's the way it should be. Maybe once upon a time they did, but they certainly don't now.

I think the more comfortable gay people are with themselves, the more comfortable non-gay people will be with them, and being gay becomes something that no one even thinks about.

I read this on facebook today, and I thought it was great advice: "Never sacrifice who you are just because someone has a problem with it!"

I am actually very comfortable talking about anything to do with my sexuality. The only difference between me and many kids these days is that I'm 6 feet tall and pushing 220 lbs. Your friends in TO also live in a much more diverse pop'n, unlike here. It is comparing apples to oranges IMO. However, I am very comfortable with my sexuality, yet people still seem to have a problem with it. Again, not in what they say, rather how they react. I am very receptive to people's body language, always have been for as long as I can remember.

Soonet-china
09-29-2011, 04:54 AM
I am comfortable being straight too DQ

dancingqueen
09-29-2011, 10:45 AM
I am comfortable being straight too DQ

Of course you are. Why wouldn't you be?
I'm sure you're trying to make a point here... wanna make it?

J B
09-29-2011, 11:01 AM
I'm 6 feet tall and pushing 220 lbs.

You're getting a little pudgy!! :)

Peety
09-29-2011, 11:03 AM
You're getting a little pudgy!! :)

He does not look it, he does have a baby face.

dancingqueen
09-29-2011, 11:06 AM
You're getting a little pudgy!! :)

In highschool I was 5' 8" and about 240lbs...
course.... It wasn't pudge back then :sad:

italiandomino
09-29-2011, 11:06 AM
I remember when a group of folks went around saying WHITE PRIDE ... and they were considered racist. But gays can go around saying GAY PRIDE .. and it is ok. double standard here dont you think??

dancingqueen
09-29-2011, 11:24 AM
I remember when a group of folks went around saying WHITE PRIDE ... and they were considered racist. But gays can go around saying GAY PRIDE .. and it is ok. double standard here dont you think??

I don't think it was the pride in being white people had... I think people disliked the beating up, killing, and raping people that where not white...
Just sayin'
Last I checked, the gays don't do this to straight people.

Larimar
09-29-2011, 11:24 AM
I remember when a group of folks went around saying WHITE PRIDE ... and they were considered racist. But gays can go around saying GAY PRIDE .. and it is ok. double standard here dont you think??

When were Europeans or "whites" ever oppressed or killed for being white? Oh that's right...most did the killing and conquering.

Gay people aren't having parades to show superiority and betterness..they are trying to reach equality.

italiandomino
09-29-2011, 02:15 PM
When were Europeans or "whites" ever oppressed or killed for being white? Oh that's right...most did the killing and conquering.

Gay people aren't having parades to show superiority and betterness..they are trying to reach equality.

yes, prancing around in pink tutu's really is gonna make them equal lol

Larimar
09-29-2011, 03:33 PM
yes, prancing around in pink tutu's really is gonna make them equal lol

I think parades are suppose to have costumes and be elaborate. It's suppose to say "look at me". For the most part it isn't everyday wear.

Oscar_Leroy
09-29-2011, 11:57 PM
yes, prancing around in pink tutu's really is gonna make them equal lol

If there was an 1980's pride parade, I'm sure the men in that would be wearing enough makeup, tights, hairspray etc. to put all the gay pride parade to shame in terms of feminine appearance from the male attendees (have you seen the 80's rock bands?), but I'm sure you wouldn't question their masculinity the same way you do with the gay community. If they do it it's weird and intolerable.

Seeing as you have a KISS avatar, I will use them as a perfect example. They all wore high heels, tights, and makeup yet people idolized them. Again, if anybody from the gay community should even come close to appearing different or heaven forbid appear at all similar to any of the KISS members they are wrong to do so by your standards.

If you can put up with the 80's for an entire 10 years you can tolerate the gay pride parade once a year without so openly bashing the participants.

I don't see the gay community being proud of who they are as a problem at all.