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The Voice
02-28-2014, 02:16 PM
I especially enjoyed the link to recovering from christianity.

A Link from the New York Times.

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/08/26/magazine/from-bible-belt-pastor-to-atheist-leader.html?pagewanted=all&

The Berean
02-28-2014, 05:45 PM
I especially enjoyed the link to recovering from christianity.

A Link from the New York Times.

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/08/26/magazine/from-bible-belt-pastor-to-atheist-leader.html?pagewanted=all&

One of the terms used to describe a true Christian is "born again". If one is born again, one cannot become "unborn". That's just the way it is.

This man is either STILL a Christian, running from a God who will never let go, or he never was.

I suspect the latter.

"Bible Belt pastor"?? What denomination?

The Berean
02-28-2014, 05:46 PM
Ah, yess:

"The church we attended — known as Grace — was one of the most liberal in town, ..."

Of course.

The Voice
03-01-2014, 06:29 AM
Ah, yess:

"The church we attended — known as Grace — was one of the most liberal in town, ..."

Of course.

I am not really sure what you are getting at here could you expound?

The Voice
03-01-2014, 06:31 AM
One of the terms used to describe a true Christian is "born again". If one is born again, one cannot become "unborn". That's just the way it is.

This man is either STILL a Christian, running from a God who will never let go, or he never was.

I suspect the latter.

"Bible Belt pastor"?? What denomination?

So once a person is Born Again they can't be unborn? Where does it teach that in the bible?

The Berean
03-01-2014, 11:15 AM
So once a person is Born Again they can't be unborn? Where does it teach that in the bible?

The bible says God will never let go. It also says, if one could fall away, Christ would have to be crucified again. There's also the problem of a Spirit filled person, which is what happens at the rebirth, losing that filling. Can't happen.

For me, the simplest explanation is this. Once we are born, NOTHING, NOT EVEN GOD, can change the relationship we have with our parents. The same thing applies to being born again. Can't change.

The Berean
03-01-2014, 11:18 AM
I am not really sure what you are getting at here could you expound?

Liberal churches tend to reject all the truly miraculous about God and the bible. Never mind the healings, and walking on water stuff, I'm talking about the true change of heart that takes place in a person when they really come to God.

When that gets watered down, this is the result.

The Voice
03-01-2014, 12:24 PM
Liberal churches tend to reject all the truly miraculous about God and the bible. Never mind the healings, and walking on water stuff, I'm talking about the true change of heart that takes place in a person when they really come to God.

When that gets watered down, this is the result.

So what are saying then, is that because he was the pastor of a Grace Baptist Church he was likely never truly a Born Again Christian?

The Voice
03-01-2014, 12:26 PM
The bible says God will never let go. It also says, if one could fall away, Christ would have to be crucified again. There's also the problem of a Spirit filled person, which is what happens at the rebirth, losing that filling. Can't happen.

For me, the simplest explanation is this. Once we are born, NOTHING, NOT EVEN GOD, can change the relationship we have with our parents. The same thing applies to being born again. Can't change.

Are there some passages in the bible that you could quote to support this?

The Berean
03-01-2014, 12:32 PM
So what are saying then, is that because he was the pastor of a Grace Baptist Church he was likely never truly a Born Again Christian?

Not quite. Has nothing to do with his job. But obviously his "faith" led him into a church with nothing solid for him to preach, no demands on his faith.

And I doubt he was ever called a pastor, except in the most generic way. Media hype, as was the use of "bible belt" In evangelical circles, that is a heavy role.

The Berean
03-01-2014, 12:33 PM
Are there some passages in the bible that you could quote to support this?

Yes, but gotta go to work!! Will get back to you.

The Voice
03-01-2014, 12:40 PM
Ah, yess:

"The church we attended — known as Grace — was one of the most liberal in town, ..."

Of course.

Then I still don't understand what this statement is supposed to mean? What does it have to do with Grace Baptist?

Bluesky
03-01-2014, 02:28 PM
A Liberal church tends not to believe in the Bible anyway, and therefore focuses on feel good sermons, social justice issues, etc. One needs to look at the constitution of a church (statement of faith) to determine how liberal a church really is.

For a church to be described as "the most liberal in town doesn't really say much.

And yeah, some Christian pastors apostasize. It happens. No doubt about it.
And some atheists become CHristians. No doubt about that either. This is not a peeing contest.

And Berean, you are actually committing the "No true Scotsman" fallacy

Premise 1. All true Scotsmen love haggis.
Premise 2. Angus, born and bred in Scotland hates haggis
Conclusion: Well, then, Angus canna be a true Scotsman!

Premise 1: No true Christian can apostasize
Premise 2: Pastor DimSum was a Christian but is now an avowed atheist!
Conclusion: Well then, he was never a true Christian.

The Berean
03-01-2014, 02:35 PM
...And Berean, you are actually committing the "No true Scotsman" fallacy

Premise 1. All true Scotsmen love haggis.
Premise 2. Angus, born and bred in Scotland hates haggis
Conclusion: Well, then, Angus canna be a true Scotsman!

Premise 1: No true Christian can apostasize
Premise 2: Pastor DimSum was a Christian but is now an avowed atheist!
Conclusion: Well then, he was never a true Christian.

Nope, not the way I see it. Unless YOU believe one can lose his salvation.

BTW, where IS that verse about Christ having to be crucified again if some could fall away, can't seem to remeber it well enough to find it.

The Berean
03-01-2014, 02:36 PM
Then I still don't understand what this statement is supposed to mean? What does it have to do with Grace Baptist?

There's no "Grace Baptist" mentioned in the article.

Verses about God holding on:


John 10:28
28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.
(KJV)

John 10:28
28 I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one can snatch them out of my hand.
(NIV)

hobo
03-01-2014, 02:48 PM
BTW, where IS that verse about Christ having to be crucified again if some could fall away, can't seem to remeber it well enough to find it.


Perhaps

Hebrews6:6
if they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.

The Voice
03-01-2014, 03:00 PM
There's no "Grace Baptist" mentioned in the article.


No there isn't sorry for inferring that.

But you are the one mentioning grace in your comment and I am asking what the comment is supposed to mean?

The Berean
03-01-2014, 03:03 PM
No there isn't sorry for inferring that.

But you are the one mentioning grace in your comment and I am asking what the comment is supposed to mean?

That was just the name of the church.

The Berean
03-01-2014, 03:07 PM
Perhaps

Hebrews6:6
if they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.

Thank you very much hobo, just couldn't put my finger on it.

This verse is interpreted by many to say that the truly saved CANNOT fall away, which I agree with.

The Berean
03-01-2014, 03:11 PM
A minor point. The article never says, "recovering from christianity".

The Voice
03-01-2014, 03:11 PM
Ah, yess:

"The church we attended — known as Grace — was one of the most liberal in town, ..."

Of course.

Ok then Of Course what?

The Voice
03-01-2014, 03:14 PM
A minor point. The article never says, "recovering from christianity".

Sorry it's a link to Recovering from Religion.

Another minor point it also doesn't say he was a Grace minister it says he was a Pentecostal Minister.

The Berean
03-01-2014, 03:16 PM
Ok then Of Course what?

True believers, in my experience, tend to put their main focus on God and Christ, and worship.

A liberal church does not. They just don't give people real foundation in their lives, not teaching them to trust in God, regardless of circumstances, and then they teach people that helping their fellow man is more important. Their priorities are skewed, and IMO, that someone should end up rejecting such a wishy-washy releigion is no surprise.

The Voice
03-01-2014, 03:19 PM
So how about the Pentecosts they seam like a pretty devout group to me?

The Berean
03-01-2014, 03:22 PM
Sorry it's a link to Recovering from Religion.

Another minor point it also doesn't say he was a Grace minister it says he was a Pentecostal Minister.

It does infer that.

Interestinly, it also says he never had a degree. Many pentecostals don't have much education, and don't get a real foundation in bible and theology as a result.

The Berean
03-01-2014, 03:23 PM
So how about the Pentecosts they seam like a pretty devout group to me?

Oh, certainly, some of them are. But like any denomination, there are many weaker examples.

My oldest daughter is a regular leader at a local Pentecostal church.

BTW, I know there are over 300 separate groups of Baptists in the USA. I'm not sure how many Pentecostals.

Bluesky
03-01-2014, 05:19 PM
Berean, it IS a fallacy. But that doesn't mean I don't believe in eternal security.
What it does mean though is that only God knows for sure.

All we cn do is argue over hypotheticals which is what this thread is doing. Which I regard as wasted energy.

Hans
03-01-2014, 05:21 PM
I guess that depends on what you consider eternal security.

Official Cat of Soonet
03-01-2014, 05:33 PM
All we cn do is argue over hypotheticals which is what this thread is doing. Which I regard as wasted energy.

Couldn't agree more. If you recall thr thread about what happens if Canadians stopped shopping on the US side what would happen. I just thought why even discuss it.

Igor
03-01-2014, 07:11 PM
Couldn't agree more. If you recall thr thread about what happens if Canadians stopped shopping on the US side what would happen. I just thought why even discuss it.

Wasted energy or a bit of fun when bored?

The Berean
03-01-2014, 09:04 PM
Wasted energy or a bit of fun when bored?

A bit of fun. and even cats may drop in.

Plus we might learn something.

Bluesky
03-01-2014, 09:20 PM
One must be teachable to learn something. That quality is rare in these parts

The Berean
03-01-2014, 09:40 PM
Indeed!!! :) :) :)

Igor
03-02-2014, 08:37 AM
One must be teachable to learn something. That quality is rare in these parts

oooooooh!

The Berean
03-02-2014, 09:56 AM
Berean, it IS a fallacy. But that doesn't mean I don't believe in eternal security.
What it does mean though is that only God knows for sure.


I used the word "suspect". That means only God knows.

But. A definition.

a·pos·tate (ə-pŏs′tāt′, -tĭt)
n.
One who has abandoned one's religious faith, a political party, one's principles, or a cause.

This indicates to me that a born again believer CANNOT be apostate, to the point of losing salvation.

IF Dewitt is really apostate, he never was born again.

Anapeg
03-02-2014, 12:49 PM
What is to be gained arguing over deserters? This is human nature at it's best. One thing goes wrong and the weaker of either party jumps ship. It has always been such and will never change nor will it in and of itself win any arguments. Now should a whole group, on mass make an exodus, THEN one has a point to make.

The Berean
03-02-2014, 02:30 PM
What is to be gained arguing over deserters? This is human nature at it's best. One thing goes wrong and the weaker of either party jumps ship. It has always been such and will never change nor will it in and of itself win any arguments. Now should a whole group, on mass make an exodus, THEN one has a point to make.

I'm trying to make the point that he never was a believer, apparently, so he can't be a deserter..

The Left Sock
03-02-2014, 02:37 PM
It's the Chinese finger trap all over again!

The Left Sock
03-02-2014, 03:33 PM
To summarize, if a Christian renounces Christianity, they:

- were never really 'in', so they didn't actually leave.

- or, they are 'in', and will still be 'in', even if they claim to get out.

It's a fascinating aspect of modern Christianity, trying to build a perfect system, that once someone is 'saved', it is a permanent and irreversible reflection of their 'perfect God'.

As for me, I don't buy any of it. If a person turns to Christianity, and it is in their heart and minds to believe in the tenets of that faith, then they are a Christian, regardless of what the pundits and politicos of the Christian world try to claim.

And if a person follows Christianity with sincerity for an extended period of time, but become disillusioned with some key aspect of the belief system, and leave the church, then they were indeed real Christians, and became real non-Christians.

All the theological punting in the world won't change the real truth for real human beings, operating on the ground here in the real world. Of course people can believe fully in a religious faith, only to have a sincere change of heart. To think otherwise is categorically absurd.

The Berean
03-02-2014, 04:35 PM
To summarize, if a Christian renounces Christianity, they:

- were never really 'in', so they didn't actually leave.

- or, they are 'in', and will still be 'in', even if they claim to get out.

It's a fascinating aspect of modern Christianity, trying to build a perfect system, that once someone is 'saved', it is a permanent and irreversible reflection of their 'perfect God'.

As for me, I don't buy any of it. If a person turns to Christianity, and it is in their heart and minds to believe in the tenets of that faith, then they are a Christian, regardless of what the pundits and politicos of the Christian world try to claim.

And if a person follows Christianity with sincerity for an extended period of time, but become disillusioned with some key aspect of the belief system, and leave the church, then they were indeed real Christians, and became real non-Christians.

All the theological punting in the world won't change the real truth for real human beings, operating on the ground here in the real world. Of course people can believe fully in a religious faith, only to have a sincere change of heart. To think otherwise is categorically absurd.

Been over this before, in different ways. A few things that led me to my beliefs. I'd be interested in your take.

Jesus sais, "You must be born again". You didn't mention those words or that principle. You only consider the "belief" involved.

My problem is that the bible says, "the demons also believe, and tremble". So what is the difference between them and us?? One difference is the "born again" part.

So what is born again?? It is becoming part of the family of God, a legitimate child of the Father, an establishment of a relationship. We see relationships all over scripture, God as Father, Christ as son, us as brothers (and sisters), the church as a bride, etc.

And, for me, I believe this born again relationship CANNOT be severed after being established, any more than the relationship between a father and his child can be changed. Remember, not even God can change the relationship, for example, between myself and my son.

The Berean
03-02-2014, 04:38 PM
It's the Chinese finger trap all over again!

But entered into willingly.

Exod 21:5-6
5 And if the servant shall plainly say, I love my master, my wife, and my children; I will not go out free:
6 Then his master shall bring him unto the judges; he shall also bring him to the door, or unto the door post; and his master shall bore his ear through with an aul; and he shall serve him for ever.

The Left Sock
03-02-2014, 04:44 PM
Well, I don't know what any of that has to do with whether or not a person can be a Christian, and then decide otherwise.

Sounds more like an analogy for the justification of slavery, to me.

The Berean
03-02-2014, 04:52 PM
Well, I don't know what any of that has to do with whether or not a person can be a Christian, and then decide otherwise.

Sounds more like an analogy for the justification of slavery, to me.

The relationship is entered into willingly, for the love of the master. Even though the slave can leave, he chooses to stay. He enters into an irrevocable relationship. Just like the true Christian being born into God's family, also an irrevocable relationship.

Can YOU decide not to be your father's son?? You can SAY it all day long, live apart, never communicate again as long as you live. But the relationship cannot change. Ever.

The Left Sock
03-02-2014, 04:54 PM
So, by your reasoning, Satan himself is still a Christian. Got it.

The obvious question that follows is; what's the point to any of it, if your logic holds?

Luckily, it doesn't. Your God, by Christian admission, granted humans free will. If that is true, humans are free to leave Christianity. If it is not true, your God plays a rigged game.

You pick which way you want it.

The Berean
03-02-2014, 05:02 PM
So, by your reasoning, Satan himself is still a Christian. Got it.

Nope. The bible does speak of ba$tards, illegitimate children. These would be the children created, but not submitted to God, they are NOT born again.


The obvious question that follows is; what's the point to any of it, if your logic holds?

Luckily, it doesn't. Your God, by Christian admission, granted humans free will. If that is true, humans are free to leave Christianity. If it is not true, your God plays a rigged game.

You pick which way you want it.

You can look at it that way if you wish. I think God gave man free will so that He could get back REAL love from those who willingly choose to be His children. In other words, we can choose to give up our free will.

The Left Sock
03-02-2014, 05:06 PM
Right, so it is a rigged game. Understood.

Here's the real truth, for those ready to hear it.

Religions are man-made. Men cook them up, people decide to follow them, or not.

Since religions are man-made, all men are free to belong, or not. They are also free to belong, and then leave. They are also free to adopt different beliefs.

All the man-made theology and paradoxes in the world won't change the truth.

As evidence, consider this:

A man is a Christian, but defies God. He is punished with eternity in Hell. He believes, but defies. Therefore, he is punished. What good did his being Christian serve him? None.

And before you introduce the Chinese finger trap again, and try to claim that a real Christian won't end up in Hell, then you leave yourself another dilemma; if what you have built here is true, then Hell would be empty. Is Hell empty?

Obviously, if God wants all humans to join Him, and if we are not free to do otherwise, Hell wouldn't exist. If Hell exists for you, then humans are free to leave Christianity. It should be self-evident.

So, is it evident that Christians can leave Christianity, or is Hell empty?

The Berean
03-02-2014, 05:38 PM
So, let's begin at the beginning.

You said: "A man is a Christian,..."


Why??

The Left Sock
03-02-2014, 05:42 PM
Just change it up a bit, and let's say "A man is a Christian pastor".

Now, proceed.

The Left Sock
03-02-2014, 05:59 PM
If we really are all God's children, and there really isn't anywhere to go but into His arms, then please explain how Hell exists.

If Hell exists, then obviously people are free to leave the faith.

Then there are the billions of people on the planet for whom none of this applies, but we'll leave them out of the equation, for now.

Anapeg
03-02-2014, 06:46 PM
How insecure is a God who creates a race for the sole purpose of worshiping Him? Then say if you chose not to you will die and in the afterlife suffer for the rest or time. This is the crux of my problem with Christianity. Sorry for the tangent but there it is, in all it's glory.

Bluesky
03-02-2014, 10:20 PM
"Here's the real truth, for those ready to hear it.

Religions are man-made. Men cook them up, people decide to follow them, or not."

Then that would include Left Sock's religion.

The Voice
03-03-2014, 01:34 AM
"Here's the real truth, for those ready to hear it.

Religions are man-made. Men cook them up, people decide to follow them, or not."

Then that would include Left Sock's religion.

I think it is like the most intelligent comment he has ever made.

The Left Sock
03-03-2014, 04:28 AM
"Here's the real truth, for those ready to hear it.

Religions are man-made. Men cook them up, people decide to follow them, or not."

Then that would include Left Sock's religion.

Absolutely. As a Buddhist, I understand completely that the Buddha designed a method of understanding life, and giving it purpose. He never claimed to be a God.

People are free to embrace Buddhism, or chose a different path. That was never in question.

In fact, there is no reason why people from other faiths could not also adopt Buddhist thought; many of the ideas coincide with other religious teachings.

I don't know how anyone could find fault with the Four Basic Truths, or the Eightfold Path, since all of it is rational and reasonable, but if it doesn't make sense, don't bother with it. That's entirely up to the individual.

The Berean
03-03-2014, 07:33 AM
Just change it up a bit, and let's say "A man is a Christian pastor".

Now, proceed.

No, it makes no difference. A pastor is a servant, just as every other Christian is called to be.

So, I repeat.

So, let's begin at the beginning.

You said: "A man is a Christian,..."


Why?? To be clear, why is he a Christian, how did he get to that point??

The Berean
03-03-2014, 07:38 AM
Absolutely. As a Buddhist, I understand completely that the Buddha designed a method of understanding life, and giving it purpose. He never claimed to be a God.....

Two comments to that. Because of the nature of the human heart, according to this philosophy, there ends up being two kinds of people. The dead and the hypocrites.

Second, Jesus Christ DID claim to be God, and offered through His sacrifice salvation DESPITE the hypocrisy (sin) of the human heart.

The Berean
03-03-2014, 07:42 AM
How insecure is a God who creates a race for the sole purpose of worshiping Him? Then say if you chose not to you will die and in the afterlife suffer for the rest or time. This is the crux of my problem with Christianity. Sorry for the tangent but there it is, in all it's glory.

Insecurity is a human trait. How can a God who knows (by definition) the entirety of time, and the result of every action taken by Himself and by every human who ever existed??

I believe He gave us free will so that we could freely choose to love and follow Him. Those who choose not to submit to Him will be separated from God. THAT will be hell.

Bluesky
03-03-2014, 09:05 AM
The only Buddhists I know (and I have quite a few in my circle) worship gods all the time. They have shrines in their homes, offer fruit regularly to their gods, etc. Yes, I know that many western Buddhists do not believe in a god, but most from Asia do.

The Left Sock
03-03-2014, 09:33 AM
Fascinating. What gods do they worship?

The Left Sock
03-03-2014, 09:41 AM
No, it makes no difference. A pastor is a servant, just as every other Christian is called to be.

So, I repeat.

So, let's begin at the beginning.

You said: "A man is a Christian,..."


Why?? To be clear, why is he a Christian, how did he get to that point??

Well, that's just silly, because a pastor has to have some training, or be elected to the position. So obviously, they have a higher status in the Christian community as 'simply Christians'. And since this thread is about a pastor who left Christianity, it is a more relevant point,

As for your question, A 'Christian' is someone who claims to be a believer. I'm not in the position to judge whether someone is a 'real' Christian, or a 'liberal' Christian, or whether or not they belong to a segment of the faith you personally endorse as legitimate.

I'm not in a position to pass judgment on Christians. Are you?

The Berean
03-03-2014, 12:57 PM
.....I'm not in a position to pass judgment on Christians. Are you?

Sure. Just as you are judging that anyone who calls himself a Christian actually IS one, I make a judgement based on scripture. For example:

Gal 5:22-23
22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
23 Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.

Edit to add this one:
John 7:24
24 Judge not according to the appearance, but judge righteous judgment.

I think you're just avoiding the question.

Bluesky
03-03-2014, 04:34 PM
Fascinating. What gods do they worship?

No, Buddhists don't claim a particular God. You can worship none or any

What a Buddhists does though is to grant attributes of perfection to those who have reached nirvana or your Bodhisatvas and "revere' or "venerate" them. You simply move the goalposts.

But ultimately, you are your own god. And that is whom you worship.

The Left Sock
03-03-2014, 06:39 PM
"But ultimately, you are your own god. And that is whom you worship."

Wrong again. Care to go three-for-three on the wrong count?

The Berean
03-03-2014, 08:03 PM
"But ultimately, you are your own god. And that is whom you worship."

Wrong again. Care to go three-for-three on the wrong count?

In your belief, what higher entity is there than man?

The Left Sock
03-03-2014, 08:31 PM
In Buddhism, the emphasis is not on gods, or becoming your own god. The focus is on enlightenment.

The Berean
03-03-2014, 08:52 PM
In Buddhism, the emphasis is not on gods, or becoming your own god. The focus is on enlightenment.

Thank you. :)

The Berean
03-03-2014, 08:54 PM
But let's go back.

The Left Sock
03-03-2014, 09:16 PM
Sure. Just as you are judging that anyone who calls himself a Christian actually IS one, I make a judgement based on scripture. For example:

Gal 5:22-23
22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
23 Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.

Edit to add this one:
John 7:24
24 Judge not according to the appearance, but judge righteous judgment.

I think you're just avoiding the question.

I'm not judging anyone. I'm merely taking them at their word that if they claim to be Christians, I accept it at face value. Who am I to say whether they are or not? Better yet, who are you to do the same?

I'm not avoiding any question. I'm getting to the heart of the question.

The Berean
03-03-2014, 11:26 PM
I'm not judging anyone. I'm merely taking them at their word that if they claim to be Christians, I accept it at face value. Who am I to say whether they are or not? Better yet, who are you to do the same?
A Christian, reaing the word, and taking what it says to heart. See the verses above.


I'm not avoiding any question. I'm getting to the heart of the question.

I don't think so. I think you want to reduce Christianity to a simple set of beliefs acceptable to the human intellect, that can be discarded like yesterdays newspaper.

The problem with that is twofold. First, it denies any supernatural work of God in the human heart, something that is very obvious to me. Second, I have yet to see exactly what the beliefs ARE that one MUST hold to be a child of God.

The Left Sock
03-04-2014, 08:25 AM
"I don't think so. I think you want to reduce Christianity to a simple set of beliefs acceptable to the human intellect, that can be discarded like yesterdays newspaper."

Poppycock.

The fact is, you believe your God speaks for all of us, whether we like it or not, or agree. Further, you hold out the belief that your religion is the only one true religion, at the expense of all other beliefs.

To take that position, puts you in a position to prove your case. I've never claimed that Buddhism is exclusively correct, at the expense of all other beliefs, so why should I accept such assertions from Christians here?

When you take the position that your beliefs alone are correct, and that the rest of us will burn in Hell for not joining you, it behooves you to defend your faith.

Christians aren't under constant attack, as many of you would claim. Christians have put themselves in the position to assume that you are the only ones in possession of the truth, and the rest of us are nothing but heathens. So, it becomes perfectly fair to challenge you with explaining the vast contradictions and totally unrealistic things you bring forth as tenets of your beliefs.

If you think you are right, and everyone else is wrong, you're going to have to prove that. And you will also have to defend the things contained in the Bible which all rational human beings agree is physically impossible.

Or, you could just claim that Christianity is right for you, and other beliefs are right for others, and that we are all just muddling our way through the world, trying to make sense out of our time here on earth. But, to hold onto the idea that you Christians are the only ones on planet earth with the real answers, you're just going to have to get better at answering the tough questions.

The Berean
03-04-2014, 09:00 AM
I love what you ignore, always good for a chuckle!!

What a list (none of which I don't have answers for, which you wouldn't accept anyway!!)!!!

I'll get back to you, very busy.

Bluesky
03-04-2014, 09:41 AM
The fact is that maybe 3 or four times a year, we will see a critical remark made of Buddhism by a Christian. But you consistently and regularly hammer on Christianity and Christians. Better look in the mirror, Bud.

Bluesky
03-04-2014, 09:42 AM
"But ultimately, you are your own god. And that is whom you worship."

Wrong again. Care to go three-for-three on the wrong count?

Your opinion. ANd there is none so blind as those who will not see.

The Left Sock
03-04-2014, 09:43 AM
That's rich, coming from someone who believes he is in possession of the sole truth, and the rest of us are going to burn for not getting on board.