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dancingqueen
05-22-2014, 08:27 AM
We have people in our society all the time today that claim they hear the voice of God, we label these people with a psychological disorder. why do we not consider the same for this man Jesus? Now, of course understanding that people do not get taken over by evil spirits.

The Left Sock
05-22-2014, 09:04 AM
There are a lot of people convinced that Jesus could show up any day now, and the whole show as we know it will be over.

However, I disagree. The odds of someone convincing people that they were Jesus, before being locked up in Bellevue and getting pumped full of Thorazine, are really, really low.

I think we will have to wait a while longer for that sequel.

Barry Morris
05-22-2014, 09:40 AM
We have people in our society all the time today that claim they hear the voice of God, we label these people with a psychological disorder. why do we not consider the same for this man Jesus? Now, of course understanding that people do not get taken over by evil spirits.

As I have read, some scholars believe that Christ may not have fully understood His own nature and mission when he was younger.

But the results were clear, surrounding the most important event and proof of who He was. He rose from the dead.

dancingqueen
05-22-2014, 06:12 PM
As I have read, some scholars believe that Christ may not have fully understood His own nature and mission when he was younger.

But the results were clear, surrounding the most important event and proof of who He was. He rose from the dead.

So his miracle needed to be witnessed before the general consensus was made that he was in fact, the son of God?

Hans
05-22-2014, 07:57 PM
So anybody who rises from the dead is a son of God?

Barry Morris
05-23-2014, 09:41 PM
So his miracle needed to be witnessed before the general consensus was made that he was in fact, the son of God?

No, but this event certainly made it clear.

Barry Morris
05-23-2014, 09:41 PM
So anybody who rises from the dead is a son of God?

No, Hans.

dancingqueen
05-23-2014, 09:51 PM
No, but this event certainly made it clear.

So before the miricales it was established Jesus was the son of God?

Barry Morris
05-23-2014, 10:02 PM
So before the miricales it was established Jesus was the son of God?


Luke 1:30-35
30 And the angel said unto her, Fear not, Mary: for thou hast found favour with God.
31 And, behold, thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and bring forth a son, and shalt call his name JESUS.
32 He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David:
33 And he shall reign over the house of Jacob for ever; and of his kingdom there shall be no end.
34 Then said Mary unto the angel, How shall this be, seeing I know not a man?
35 And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.
(KJV)

dancingqueen
05-23-2014, 10:43 PM
Luke 1:30-35
30 And the angel said unto her, Fear not, Mary: for thou hast found favour with God.
31 And, behold, thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and bring forth a son, and shalt call his name JESUS.
32 He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David:
33 And he shall reign over the house of Jacob for ever; and of his kingdom there shall be no end.
34 Then said Mary unto the angel, How shall this be, seeing I know not a man?
35 And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.
(KJV)

But this explains how it was established with Mary, what about everyone else? Did they just believe her when she said this happened?

Barry Morris
05-24-2014, 12:22 AM
But this explains how it was established with Mary, what about everyone else? Did they just believe her when she said this happened?

Here's most of the references about the Son of God:


Matt 14:28-33
28 And Peter answered him and said, Lord, if it be thou, bid me come unto thee on the water.
29 And he said, Come. And when Peter was come down out of the ship, he walked on the water, to go to Jesus.
30 But when he saw the wind boisterous, he was afraid; and beginning to sink, he cried, saying, Lord, save me.
31 And immediately Jesus stretched forth his hand, and caught him, and said unto him, O thou of little faith, wherefore didst thou doubt?
32 And when they were come into the ship, the wind ceased.
33 Then they that were in the ship came and worshipped him, saying, Of a truth thou art the Son of God.
(KJV)

Matt 26:63-64
63 But Jesus held his peace. And the high priest answered and said unto him, I adjure thee by the living God, that thou tell us whether thou be the Christ, the Son of God.
64 Jesus saith unto him, Thou hast said: nevertheless I say unto you, Hereafter shall ye see the Son of man sitting on the right hand of power, and coming in the clouds of heaven.
(KJV)

Matt 27:40
40 And saying, Thou that destroyest the temple, and buildest it in three days, save thyself. If thou be the Son of God, come down from the cross.
(KJV)

Matt 27:43
43 He trusted in God; let him deliver him now, if he will have him: for he said, I am the Son of God.
(KJV)

Matt 27:54
54 Now when the centurion, and they that were with him, watching Jesus, saw the earthquake, and those things that were done, they feared greatly, saying, Truly this was the Son of God.
(KJV)

Mark 3:11-12
11 And unclean spirits, when they saw him, fell down before him, and cried, saying, Thou art the Son of God.
12 And he straitly charged them that they should not make him known.
(KJV)

Luke 4:41
41 And devils also came out of many, crying out, and saying, Thou art Christ the Son of God. And he rebuking them suffered them not to speak: for they knew that he was Christ.
(KJV)

Luke 22:70-71
70 Then said they all, Art thou then the Son of God? And he said unto them, Ye say that I am.
71 And they said, What need we any further witness? for we ourselves have heard of his own mouth.
(KJV)

John 1:34
34 And I saw, and bare record that this is the Son of God.
(KJV)

John 1:49
49 Nathanael answered and saith unto him, Rabbi, thou art the Son of God; thou art the King of Israel.
(KJV)

John 3:18
18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
(KJV)

John 5:25-27
25 Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live.
26 For as the Father hath life in himself; so hath he given to the Son to have life in himself;
27 And hath given him authority to execute judgment also, because he is the Son of man.
(KJV)

John 9:35-37
35 Jesus heard that they had cast him out; and when he had found him, he said unto him, Dost thou believe on the Son of God?
36 He answered and said, Who is he, Lord, that I might believe on him?
37 And Jesus said unto him, Thou hast both seen him, and it is he that talketh with thee.
(KJV)

John 10:36
36 Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the Son of God?
(KJV)

John 11:4
4 When Jesus heard that, he said, This sickness is not unto death, but for the glory of God, that the Son of God might be glorified thereby.
(KJV)

John 11:27
27 She saith unto him, Yea, Lord: I believe that thou art the Christ, the Son of God, which should come into the world.
(KJV)

John 19:7
7 The Jews answered him, We have a law, and by our law he ought to die, because he made himself the Son of God.
(KJV)

John 20:31
31 But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.
(KJV)

dancingqueen
05-24-2014, 11:14 AM
So many of these passages do show others accepting Jesus as the son of God, only after they witnessed his miracles.

Barry Morris
05-24-2014, 11:31 AM
So many of these passages do show others accepting Jesus as the son of God, only after they witnessed his miracles.

And some don't. Up to you how to look at things.

dancingqueen
05-24-2014, 11:39 AM
And some don't. Up to you how to look at things.

no, some just believed him when he said he was the son of God, what made it believable back then but less so today?
Would we even know if Jesus has returned or would we have him pumped with drugs and put in a mental hospital?
My point is that there is an interesting double standard that is present here and I think warrants some discussion and not the dismissive tone you are employing:
It seems Jesus (and thus God) was cool with proving his status as the son of God by showing miracles but seems less willing to do so now.

Barry Morris
05-24-2014, 01:50 PM
I don't believe that Christ will return in the same way as He first arrived. You could look it up. Ain't nobody in white coats gonna grab Him and shoot Him full of drugs.

As to miracles, if you saw one, you'd reject the possibility. It's as simple as that.

dancingqueen
05-24-2014, 02:15 PM
As to miracles, if you saw one, you'd reject the possibility. It's as simple as that.

I know your faith demands you believe that, but I am afraid I will have to ask how you are so certain of that?

Barry Morris
05-24-2014, 02:22 PM
I know your faith demands you believe that,....?

You'd be wrong.

dancingqueen
05-24-2014, 03:28 PM
You'd be wrong.

A major focal point of your religion lies on the idea that Jesus showed all these miracles to convince people he was, in fact the son of God, then proceeds to be crucified, thus wiping humanity clear of all sins, provided we accept him as our savior. Now he no longer creates miracles because of the desire for us to have faith in him, an underlying message is that if we do not believe, no miracle will convince us to create this illusion that non-believers will deny God, thus creating a conflict between groups, and strengthening the hold over believers. Some very basic "group psychology" effects at work here.

Barry Morris
05-24-2014, 04:05 PM
A major focal point of your religion lies on the idea that Jesus showed all these miracles to convince people he was, in fact the son of God, then proceeds to be crucified, thus wiping humanity clear of all sins, provided we accept him as our savior. Now he no longer creates miracles because of the desire for us to have faith in him, an underlying message is that if we do not believe, no miracle will convince us to create this illusion that non-believers will deny God, thus creating a conflict between groups, and strengthening the hold over believers. Some very basic "group psychology" effects at work here.

How different it looks from the inside!!!

If the reality was the way you want it, I'd be gone in a flash!!!