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The Voice
11-03-2014, 10:01 PM
If this is true how can it be true that no one missed these kid's?


https://ca.news.yahoo.com/first-nations-action-alleged-killings-162431337.html

Barry Morris
11-03-2014, 10:48 PM
If this is true how can it be true that no one missed these kid's?


https://ca.news.yahoo.com/first-nations-action-alleged-killings-162431337.html

"Police never did any excavation work to look for remains."

I'm not surprised.

Anapeg
11-05-2014, 10:31 AM
Native people missing get little more than cursory attention at best today. 50 years ago this would have been swept under the carpet. Then, Natives seldom bothered calling the white' to help for they had a proven track record in dealing with Native problems. Add to that Native culture being based on privacy, not much more could be expected. If the list of missing white women approached the length of the list of missing Native women in Canada there would be an outcry for something to be done. All I hear is silence, what about you?

Barry Morris
11-05-2014, 10:53 PM
"And the 220-odd people in immigrant detention in Ontario jails lack even the most basic check on their wellbeing: The Canadian Red Cross has been prevented from ensuring their detentionís in line with international norms and human rights.

For years, documents obtained by Global News show, the Red Cross has demanded access to immigrant detainees in Ontario jails.

And for years, it has been rebuffed."

http://globalnews.ca/news/1645726/canadas-unwanted-non-citizens-paid-to-leave-jailed-without-charge-die-in-secret/?hootPostID=a093cab6f22f62d527dfd48e6078b699

Bigotry?? Read the rest.

Anapeg
11-06-2014, 06:01 PM
"And the 220-odd people in immigrant detention in Ontario jails lack even the most basic check on their wellbeing: The Canadian Red Cross has been prevented from ensuring their detention’s in line with international norms and human rights.

For years, documents obtained by Global News show, the Red Cross has demanded access to immigrant detainees in Ontario jails.

And for years, it has been rebuffed."

http://globalnews.ca/news/1645726/canadas-unwanted-non-citizens-paid-to-leave-jailed-without-charge-die-in-secret/?hootPostID=a093cab6f22f62d527dfd48e6078b699

Bigotry?? Read the rest.

So, foreigners in Canadian jails have no rights while known criminals with Canadian citizenship have more rights than those they murder, steal from and so on. Interesting. Natives and foreigners lack basic civil rights.

BFLPE
11-06-2014, 06:48 PM
If this is true how can it be true that no one missed these kid's?Noticing they went missing and reporting it are two different things. I'm sure someone noticed they were gone.

This is an interesting story. I don't know if it's true but I think we'll be hearing more about this before too long.

Like Barry, I'm not surprised the Police haven't done any excavation work. I imagine our thinking as to why not may differ though.

Some lady, 40 some years after the alleged incident, goes to Police. Part of the reason she didn't go sooner is because it took years of therapy for her to remember enough details. Police check what they can. The accused denies it. His family, other than the lady making claims, denies it. There is no record of three missing teens.

So what are the Police supposed to do? A really crazy sounding story from someone who apparently 'remembered' after years of therapy isn't enough to go digging up someones property.

A good read about it here. (http://www.poynter.org/how-tos/newsgathering-storytelling/271351/cbcs-effort-to-uncover-bodies-in-a-58-year-old-triple-murder/)

Anapeg
11-06-2014, 07:48 PM
Noticing they went missing and reporting it are two different things. I'm sure someone noticed they were gone.

This is an interesting story. I don't know if it's true but I think we'll be hearing more about this before too long.

Like Barry, I'm not surprised the Police haven't done any excavation work. I imagine our thinking as to why not may differ though.

Some lady, 40 some years after the alleged incident, goes to Police. Part of the reason she didn't go sooner is because it took years of therapy for her to remember enough details. Police check what they can. The accused denies it. His family, other than the lady making claims, denies it. There is no record of three missing teens.

So what are the Police supposed to do? A really crazy sounding story from someone who apparently 'remembered' after years of therapy isn't enough to go digging up someones property.

A good read about it here. (http://www.poynter.org/how-tos/newsgathering-storytelling/271351/cbcs-effort-to-uncover-bodies-in-a-58-year-old-triple-murder/)

There are a lot of Natives among the missing and the police have everything they need to act but never have. Watch the news, there are periodic reports, especially from the prairies of police simply ignoring reports from most reserves. Hell, until very recently the police picked up drunk Natives and dropped them at the city limits at the opposite end of town from the reserve at 40 below. They many times turned up dead the fol;lowing morning. The cops, even after revelations as to this practice suffered nothing, not even so much as a paid leave.

BFLPE
11-06-2014, 10:37 PM
There are a lot of Natives among the missing and the police have everything they need to act but never have. Watch the news, there are periodic reports, especially from the prairies of police simply ignoring reports from most reserves. Hell, until very recently the police picked up drunk Natives and dropped them at the city limits at the opposite end of town from the reserve at 40 below. They many times turned up dead the fol;lowing morning. The cops, even after revelations as to this practice suffered nothing, not even so much as a paid leave.I was addressing the alleged murders in the story.

How it relates to immigrant detention or drunks dropped off at city limits is something I will need explained. I'm a little slow that way sometimes.

Anapeg
11-06-2014, 11:07 PM
How many of the missing Natives are murdered? No one will ever know due to no one caring. Were the drunks dropped off in 40 below temperatures not in effect "murdered" or because they were Native it is any the less important?

BFLPE
11-06-2014, 11:37 PM
How many of the missing Natives are murdered? No one will ever know due to no one caring. Were the drunks dropped off in 40 below temperatures not in effect "murdered" or because they were Native it is any the less important?I don't know how many were murdered. And no, it's no less important due to the fact they are Native. We have some terrible things in our history, and we still have some terrible things going on. More than we would like to admit.

If the lady claimed her father had murdered and buried 3 white youths, the rest of the story being the same, do you think the Police would have done anything differently in 1996? I don't.

Barry Morris
11-07-2014, 09:41 AM
....If the lady claimed her father had murdered and buried 3 white youths, the rest of the story being the same, do you think the Police would have done anything differently in 1996? I don't.

I sure do. So does anyone with native background.

Did you know that natives need a pass to leave the reserve till 1960??

Did you know that South Africans came to Canada to study our methods before setting up apartheid??

Look at a map of swampy, or rocky and otherwise useless land in Canada. Then superimpose the locations of the reserves. You know what you will find.

BFLPE
11-07-2014, 10:19 AM
I sure do. So does anyone with native background.I disagree, I could be wrong but I don't think the cops could come and dig up my property on such little 'evidence'. It's interesting you feel you can speak for everyone with a native background.

Did you know that natives need a pass to leave the reserve till 1960??

Did you know that South Africans came to Canada to study our methods before setting up apartheid??

Look at a map of swampy, or rocky and otherwise useless land in Canada. Then superimpose the locations of the reserves. You know what you will find.Relevance?

Barry Morris
11-07-2014, 10:42 AM
I disagree, I could be wrong but I don't think the cops could come and dig up my property on such little 'evidence'.

Not for a native, for sure.


It's interesting you feel you can speak for everyone with a native background.

Relevance?? You got a problem with free speech??


Relevance?

Evidence of bigotry and second class citizens.

Barry Morris
11-07-2014, 10:44 AM
Ya know what, if I owned the property, I'd be digging it up myself!!

BFLPE
11-07-2014, 10:52 AM
Relevance?? You got a problem with free speech??I don't see how much of what you posted has anything to do with the situation in the article. How that leads you wondering if I have a problem with free speech is beyond me.

Barry Morris
11-07-2014, 10:54 AM
I don't see how much of what you posted has anything to do with the situation in the article. How that leads you wondering if I have a problem with free speech is beyond me.

Chaching!!!

BFLPE
11-07-2014, 11:00 AM
Chaching? I get more confused each time you post.

Anapeg
11-07-2014, 11:30 AM
Barry' post as with my own were to prove a long standing mistreatment of anything Native. Police inherently played down anything Natives had concerns over. Often it served no purpose to call the police as little or nothing would be done. The callousness regarding First Nations people was palpable. My ancestors were thought incapable of rearing children, for proof, boarding schools where children where forced to stay after their forcible removal from their own loving homes.

The Voice
11-07-2014, 11:34 AM
Did you know that natives need a pass to leave the reserve till 1960??.


I don't believe that for 1 SECOND.

How about providing some PROOF to support it??

BFLPE
11-07-2014, 11:36 AM
Barry' post as with my own were to prove a long standing mistreatment of anything Native. Police inherently played down anything Natives had concerns over. Often it served no purpose to call the police as little or nothing would be done. The callousness regarding First Nations people was palpable. My ancestors were thought incapable of rearing children, for proof, boarding schools where children where forced to stay after their forcible removal from their own loving homes.Yes, all that is known. I'm just having a hard time seeing that as the reason more hasn't been done in this case. Like Barry, do you think that if the woman said it was 3 white boys and there were no record of white boys who disappeared at that time and place that it would be treated differently today?

Anapeg
11-07-2014, 11:58 AM
Yes, all that is known. I'm just having a hard time seeing that as the reason more hasn't been done in this case. Like Barry, do you think that if the woman said it was 3 white boys and there were no record of white boys who disappeared at that time and place that it would be treated differently today?

At the risk of sounding melodramatic, I do, wholeheartedly believe if it were whites involved much more would have been done. This is one facet of a multifaceted story. Anyone who believes there was not a hue and cry from any other quarter again diminishes the feelings these family's had at the time. Whites did not believe Natives were worth any expenditure of time, resources or manpower. We, were something less than human as the blacks were treated in the U.S.

Barry Morris
11-07-2014, 03:34 PM
I don't believe that for 1 SECOND.

How about providing some PROOF to support it??

Interesting, and including what you DIDN'T ask for proof of:

"quote:The former South African apartheid regime, was directly modelled from Canada's Indian Acts, as documented in the book entitled 'National Identity in Canada and Cosmopolitan Community' (Revised Edition), ISBN: 1894934121. This modelling includes the racial segregationist "pass laws", that were an integral feature of that South African regime. Although formalised disenfranchisement, and "pass laws" against aboriginal peoples, were eventually abolished in Canada, the practice of institutionalized racism remains ... "

http://rabble.ca/babble/aboriginal-issues-and-culture/did-canada-have-pass-lawspass-system-against-indians

But apparently not as comprehensive as I had been led to believe.

BFLPE
11-07-2014, 04:09 PM
Did you know that natives need a pass to leave the reserve till 1960??


I don't believe that for 1 SECOND.

How about providing some PROOF to support it??


Interesting, and including what you DIDN'T ask for proof of:

"quote:The former South African apartheid regime, was directly modelled from Canada's Indian Acts, as documented in the book entitled 'National Identity in Canada and Cosmopolitan Community' (Revised Edition), ISBN: 1894934121. This modelling includes the racial segregationist "pass laws", that were an integral feature of that South African regime. Although formalised disenfranchisement, and "pass laws" against aboriginal peoples, were eventually abolished in Canada, the practice of institutionalized racism remains ... "

http://rabble.ca/babble/aboriginal-issues-and-culture/did-canada-have-pass-lawspass-system-against-indians

But apparently not as comprehensive as I had been led to believe.That's your proof that natives needed a pass to leave the reserve until 1960?

Never mind the fact that nowhere in your source does it say that, your source is a bbs just like soonet. That would be like quoting one of wingers silly assertions about Canada as proof of such.

Just admit it, you're wrong about them needing a pass to leave the reserve.

Anapeg
11-07-2014, 04:47 PM
The whole thing is interesting in and of itself but the answer you seek starts at "In 1885 General Middleton........". This was picked up unofficially on many reserves.

In 1867, the British North America Act made ”Indians and land reserved for Indians” a federal responsibility. In 1876 the first of a series of Indian Acts was passed, though it is more accurately characterized as the consolidation of existing federal and colonial statutes. Reserves were taken out of the commercial mainstream and made the responsibility of the Canadian Minister of Indian and Northern Affairs, as were Aboriginal people themselves. Ostensibly used to identify those entitled to reside on reserves and ‘protect’ those lands from exploitation, the Indian Act soon came to have implications other than entitlement to land. The various Indian Acts solidified the position of Natives as wards of the state, and Indian agents were given discretionary power to control almost every aspect of Aboriginal lives. For example, permission from an Indian agent was required if Native people wanted to sell crops they had grown and harvested, or wear traditional dress off reserve. Natives were forbidden to gamble, or drink alcohol and were encouraged to ”snitch” on one another, with the informer receiving half of the fine of the offender. The Indian Act was also used to deny Status Indians the vote until 1960, and their right to sit on juries.

Important cultural practices such as the Potlatch of the West Coast and the Sun Dance of the Prairies were banned in 1884 along with other Native customs deemed barbarous, or as impediments to the spread of European values. The Potlatch in particular, likely due to the ‘giveaways’ involved with it, was seen as particularly threatening to the principles of private property that the government was trying to instill, and was oftentimes viewed as ”communist” .

In 1885 General Middleton introduced the Pass System in western Canada, under which Natives could not leave their reserves without first obtaining a pass from their farming instructors permitting them to do so. While neither the Indian Act nor any other legislation allowed the Department of Indian Affairs to institute such a system, and it was known by government lawyers to be illegal as early as 1892, the Pass System continued to be enforced until the early 1930’s. As Natives were not permitted at that time to become lawyers, they could not fight it in the courts.

And finally, the measures which had initially been designed to protect reserve lands were abused in many areas to allow for farming, settlement or other non-Aboriginal uses of the land such as mining or forestry. When Aboriginals began to press for recognition of their rights and to complain of corruption and abuses of power within the Indian department, the Act was amended to make it an offence for an Aboriginal person to retain a lawyer for the purpose of advancing a claim

Barry Morris
11-07-2014, 05:02 PM
That's your proof that natives needed a pass to leave the reserve until 1960?

Never mind the fact that nowhere in your source does it say that, your source is a bbs just like soonet. That would be like quoting one of wingers silly assertions about Canada as proof of such.

Just admit it, you're wrong about them needing a pass to leave the reserve.

I was wrong about 1960. But as you can see, there is a mention of a source; "... documented in the book entitled 'National Identity in Canada and Cosmopolitan Community' (Revised Edition), ISBN: 1894934121."

Like the Voice you also ignore the South African connection.

Barry Morris
11-07-2014, 05:08 PM
Anapeg, I certainly understand your interest in these matters.

I am surprised at the "push back" on some of these facts.

"The Indian Act was also used to deny Status Indians the vote until 1960, and their right to sit on juries."

and:

".the Act was amended to make it an offence for an Aboriginal person to retain a lawyer for the purpose of advancing a claim "

That is stunning!!!

Anapeg
11-07-2014, 05:14 PM
It goes on to this very day. The government and medical profession still try protecting white doing wrong by Natives.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/north/what-a-cape-dorset-baby-s-death-reveals-about-nunavut-s-health-care-1.2819604?cmp=fbtl

The Voice
11-07-2014, 06:19 PM
I was wrong about 1960. But as you can see, there is a mention of a source; "... documented in the book entitled 'National Identity in Canada and Cosmopolitan Community' (Revised Edition), ISBN: 1894934121."

Like the Voice you also ignore the South African connection.

It is not all Natives it is 3 reserves.. It also appears that it is the result of some kind of police action..

I also highly doubt it was actually enforced up until it was Repealed in 1930..

So I think it is a little bit of a stretch never mind the fact that your so-called proof appears to be some kind of propaganda site.

Barry Morris
11-08-2014, 02:55 AM
It is not all Natives it is 3 reserves.. It also appears that it is the result of some kind of police action..

I also highly doubt it was actually enforced up until it was Repealed in 1930..

So I think it is a little bit of a stretch never mind the fact that your so-called proof appears to be some kind of propaganda site.

Of course.

The Voice
11-08-2014, 07:46 PM
Of Course what??

Barry Morris
11-08-2014, 09:17 PM
As a friend once told me about other peoples opinions, "Be as smart as a cow. Eat the hay, spit out the straw!!"

You can do the same.

The Voice
11-17-2014, 11:03 PM
As a friend once told me about other peoples opinions, "Be as smart as a cow. Eat the hay, spit out the straw!!"

You can do the same.
https://ca.news.yahoo.com/no-bodies-found-under-barn-021054241.html

Like I said nothing happening here except the apparent disrespect of other opinions.

The Voice
11-17-2014, 11:05 PM
I like this excerpt from the comments below.

"More CBC tabloid journalism. This garbage is more important to the CBC than the truth...and we pay for it."