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Aristotle
12-11-2014, 05:24 PM
Oh my...'tis like Christmas came early! :) :) :)



Canadian agents may not have physically participated in CIA torture tactics, but Stephen Harper's claim that Canada played no role whatsoever misrepresents our relationship with U.S. spies, say a number of security analysts.

"It gives us a good conscience" to be able to deny participation in torture, but "it doesn't take away the fact that we're as guilty as them," says Michel Juneau-Katsuya, a former senior intelligence officer with CSIS, the Canadian Security Intelligence Service.

Adds security expert Wesley Wark, "When Prime Minister Harper says it's an American problem with an American issue with no Canadian ramifications, that's not really accurate or oversimplified on any number of fronts.

"We tapped that intelligence. We relied on that."

intelligence Canada shared with the CIA led to the torture of a number of Canadians.

"That's exactly what took place with Maher Arar, that's exactly what took place with Omar Khadr, that's exactly what took place with tons of other people," says Juneau-Katsuya, who calls Harper's stance "a very hypocritical position."

http://www.cbc.ca/news/cia-torture-report-why-canada-can-t-claim-innocence-1.2867716

Aristotle
12-11-2014, 05:36 PM
Myths are exploding so quickly today the Loch Ness Monster and Bigfoot fear there is no place left to hide!

















:) :) :)

Anapeg
12-11-2014, 06:17 PM
Ya, our used car salesman in Ottawa is claiming no knowledge. {{GAG}}

KDawg
12-11-2014, 08:20 PM
D.ick Cheney says the declassified senate report is full of crap.

That's all I need to hear.

The Left Sock
12-11-2014, 09:23 PM
So, Canada didn't torture anyone, but America did.

Am I missing something?

Barry Morris
12-11-2014, 11:53 PM
...Am I missing something?

Yup. Either a weak argument or no comment at all!!! :) :) :)

Aristotle
12-12-2014, 11:03 AM
So, Canada didn't torture anyone, but America did.

Am I missing something?

Awwww...this one hurts.

Understandable!! :) :) :)

Aristotle
12-12-2014, 11:04 AM
Yup. Either a weak argument or no comment at all!!! )

The "argument" that Canada is a huge hypocrite on this issue comes from people within your intelligence community.

You lose! :) :) :)

Anapeg
12-12-2014, 01:04 PM
The "argument" that Canada is a huge hypocrite on this issue comes from people within your intelligence community.

You lose! :) :) :)

When governments lie, we all lose. There was a time government was for the people, now it is as thought we, the people are being relegated to the enemy side of the equation.

The Left Sock
12-12-2014, 02:12 PM
Everybody in the world knows America was torturing people, they just finally formally admitted it.

Once again, Canada did not participate in torture. But likely, there were those in positions to know about it, just like every other country in the world.

So, Canada is not in a hypocritical position at all. Unless you are suggesting that we should have cut ties with the Americans over the issue of torture, rather than remaining allies.

Is that what you're suggesting? We didn't go to war with you over it, so we are just as guilty?

Aristotle
12-12-2014, 04:58 PM
Your own intelligence people were taken aback by Canada's hypothetical stance.

Canada knew it was going on, so why didn't they do anything about it? Allert the UN? Amnesty International?

Because Canada benefited from the US doing all the heavy lifting (yet again)

Barry Morris
12-12-2014, 05:34 PM
Everybody in the world knows America was torturing people, they just finally formally admitted it.

Once again, Canada did not participate in torture. But likely, there were those in positions to know about it, just like every other country in the world.

So, Canada is not in a hypocritical position at all. Unless you are suggesting that we should have cut ties with the Americans over the issue of torture, rather than remaining allies.

Is that what you're suggesting? We didn't go to war with you over it, so we are just as guilty?

Aris is in non-responsive mode. It's the only way to gloss over his chagrin.

Anapeg
12-12-2014, 06:57 PM
Everybody in the world knows America was torturing people, they just finally formally admitted it.

Once again, Canada did not participate in torture. But likely, there were those in positions to know about it, just like every other country in the world.

Is that what you're suggesting? We didn't go to war with you over it, so we are just as guilty?

How do you feel taking the Pontius Pilate stance?

The Left Sock
12-12-2014, 09:54 PM
How do you feel taking the Pontius Pilate stance?

As a fictional player in a mythological mystery, or in the historical, Roman Empire kind of way?

The Left Sock
12-12-2014, 09:55 PM
Your own intelligence people were taken aback by Canada's hypothetical stance.

Canada knew it was going on, so why didn't they do anything about it? Allert the UN? Amnesty International?

Because Canada benefited from the US doing all the heavy lifting (yet again)

The UN reported that America was using torture years ago - it largely fell on deaf ears in Washington.

But now, the American government, to their own credit, is facing up to it. That's a start, at least.

Anapeg
12-12-2014, 11:01 PM
As a fictional player in a mythological mystery, or in the historical, Roman Empire kind of way?

Interesting side step. Care to address the query?

The Left Sock
12-13-2014, 05:34 AM
It's a ridiculous question, so no, I don't think I will address it.

Aristotle
12-13-2014, 09:04 AM
The UN reported that America was using torture years ago - it largely fell on deaf ears in Washington.



But according to you that is just par for the course during the Bush administration.

So I ask again: where was Canada?

Standing on the sidelines, watching, and then using the info we got.

And let's not forget, your government provided the CIA with info on certain Canadians, knowing full well what the CIA was doing.

Can't wiggle out of this one, Charlie.

Barry Morris
12-13-2014, 10:01 AM
It's a ridiculous question, so no, I don't think I will address it.

You avoided it. Whether or not you believe in Pontius Pilate has nothing to do with the query. It's a well understood description of a particular stance.

We understand your stance by the fact that you DON'T answer.

Barry Morris
12-13-2014, 10:02 AM
But according to you that is just par for the course during the Bush administration.

So I ask again: where was Canada?

Standing on the sidelines, watching, and then using the info we got.

And let's not forget, your government provided the CIA with info on certain Canadians, knowing full well what the CIA was doing.

Can't wiggle out of this one, Charlie.

Anything to justify your country. We understand.

Aristotle
12-13-2014, 10:03 AM
Anything to justify your country. We understand.

I'll take your non-answer as an admission there is no defending your government's hypocrisy on this one.

Thanks for the admission.

The Left Sock
12-13-2014, 01:03 PM
You avoided it. Whether or not you believe in Pontius Pilate has nothing to do with the query. It's a well understood description of a particular stance.

We understand your stance by the fact that you DON'T answer.

It's a ridiculous question, which is easy to demonstrate. I just didn't want to bother, because I don't want to get derailed into a religious diatribe over it. But here's the short answer:

- Jesus was offered up by the Jews, to stand before Pontius Pilate for judgment. The Americans never offered up George Bush to Canada for judgment on war crimes, so the comparison is ridiculous.

- Jesus was an innocent man, who never harmed anyone. The American government is guilty of torture, and actually murdered a couple of prisoners in their care. So, trying to use Pontius Pilate as an example on American torture is absurd - there is no comparison.

There, everybody happy now? I won't entertain dumb questions.

Anapeg
12-13-2014, 02:50 PM
It's a ridiculous question, which is easy to demonstrate. I just didn't want to bother, because I don't want to get derailed into a religious diatribe over it. But here's the short answer:

- Jesus was offered up by the Jews, to stand before Pontius Pilate for judgment. The Americans never offered up George Bush to Canada for judgment on war crimes, so the comparison is ridiculous.

- Jesus was an innocent man, who never harmed anyone. The American government is guilty of torture, and actually murdered a couple of prisoners in their care. So, trying to use Pontius Pilate as an example on American torture is absurd - there is no comparison.

There, everybody happy now? I won't entertain dumb questions.

You state Canada knew what was going on but chose not to participate. Neither did Canada try to stop or save those being tortured. Thereby giving tacit approval or, metaphorically, washing their hands and trying absolve themselves of guilt. Does it help it it is spelled out for you or is it still blurry? When your naive train of thought begs silly questions it is impolite not to accept delivery.

The Left Sock
12-13-2014, 03:47 PM
Yeah, Canada was going to go to war with America, over the treatment of their prisoners.

You'll be okay.