PDA

View Full Version : I'm a Devout Atheist...



Nihilistic Heathen
03-02-2015, 01:16 PM
Something for some of you to ponder....

I'm a Devout Atheist Here's What I Love About Religion (http://mic.com/articles/111370/what-i-ve-come-to-appreciate-about-religion-since-becoming-a-devout-atheist)

I'll admit, I agree with most of it.

Barry Morris
03-03-2015, 02:14 PM
You reading this, Left Sock??

Bluesky
03-03-2015, 02:24 PM
It's a small comfort to know there are some atheists who do not agree with Hitchens et al in that he believed that religion had no redeeming qualities whatsoever.

The Left Sock
03-03-2015, 07:18 PM
You reading this, Left Sock??

Sure did. There were four things listed in the article. Switch 'prayer' for 'meditation' in number two, and you don't need religion for any one of those things. You can have community, a sense of purpose, and holidays without having religion.

Barry Morris
03-03-2015, 07:25 PM
Sure did. There were four things listed in the article. Switch 'prayer' for 'meditation' in number two, and you don't need religion for any one of those things. You can have community, a sense of purpose, and holidays without having religion.

Far be it from me to argue with that.

List for us atheist organizations that operate like that.

PS meditation = navel gazing.

The Left Sock
03-03-2015, 07:31 PM
If meditation means navel gazing, at least it leaves you're contemplating something that actually exists.

The Left Sock
03-03-2015, 10:53 PM
You reading this, Left Sock??

Did you read the whole thing, Barry?

"But prayer is not just about dialogue with higher beings; it's also dialogue with the self. Prayer promotes quiet reflection on anxieties, hopes, injustice, moral quandaries and gratitude. Undoubtedly one can turn their thoughts to these matters at any time of day, but prayer routinizes this process and makes it deliberate and important. In a way, it makes concentrated contemplation itself sacred.

Prayer is a form of meditation, which is a word that many of those without faith are increasingly comfortable with and a practice that atheists should embrace as a matter of habit. The mental and physical health benefits of meditation are simply staggering. The reality is that the speed, stress and invasiveness of modern life is unmanageable without practices that instill resilience and calm in the mind."

I guess a couple of you saw a picture of a church, and got all excited. Lesson learned!

Barry Morris
03-04-2015, 11:17 AM
If meditation means navel gazing, at least it leaves you're contemplating something that actually exists.

True.

Where did it come from??

The Left Sock
03-04-2015, 11:41 AM
It's just an expression that refers to examining your core essence, your connection to the world.

Your navel is the center of your physicality, your attachment to the one who gave birth to you, and the first place you received nourishment.

RWGR
03-04-2015, 05:58 PM
It's just an expression that refers to examining your core essence, your connection to the world.

Your navel is the center of your physicality, your attachment to the one who gave birth to you, and the first place you received nourishment.

I sense another "splitting hares" moment coming up!!

The Left Sock
03-04-2015, 07:16 PM
Well for me it makes more sense than lining up to eat a little disc of bread and taking a sip of wine in a ritualistic representation of cannibalism!

Barry Morris
03-04-2015, 10:09 PM
It's just an expression that refers to examining your core essence, your connection to the world.

Your navel is the center of your physicality, your attachment to the one who gave birth to you, and the first place you received nourishment.

Given the slightest opportunity to skip the essence of the question, as usual.

The Left Sock
03-04-2015, 11:04 PM
Well, I certainly wouldn't want to be accused of dodging reality, so here you go!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Omphaloskepsis
http://www.gynob.com/contnavel.htm

There, consider yourself enlightened!

The Left Sock
03-04-2015, 11:05 PM
As you can clearly see, my former answer was right on the money, so I wasn't 'skipping the essence' of anything.

Barry Morris
03-04-2015, 11:07 PM
As you can clearly see, my former answer was right on the money, so I wasn't 'skipping the essence' of anything.

Gamer.

The Left Sock
03-04-2015, 11:08 PM
Troll.

The Left Sock
03-04-2015, 11:11 PM
That is the proper term for someone who name-calls and posts single words, isn't it?

The Left Sock
03-04-2015, 11:23 PM
There, I reported it. Now you can ban yourself!

Barry Morris
03-05-2015, 12:03 AM
Reported you back!! Nyaah nyaah!!

Barry Morris
03-05-2015, 02:24 PM
Curious thought.

Isn't devout close to devoted in meaning??

Devoted to what??

Why, nothing, of course!!!

Bluesky
03-05-2015, 02:44 PM
Guys, get a life!

The Left Sock
03-05-2015, 03:10 PM
Curious thought.

Isn't devout close to devoted in meaning??

Devoted to what??

Why, nothing, of course!!!

I'd much rather be devoted to reality, than waste my time on mythology.

Nihilistic Heathen
03-05-2015, 05:59 PM
I'd much rather be devoted to reality, than waste my time on mythology.

Aren't you a Buddhist? There is a lot of mythology in Buddhism.

The Left Sock
03-05-2015, 06:26 PM
There is no mythology associated with the core beliefs of Buddhism. The Buddha was a real man, who died at the age of 80. You don't have to buy into any supernatural thoughts or events to buy into the Four Noble Truths, or the Eight-fold Path.

Of course there is mythology loosely associated with Buddhism. But these are mostly cultural influences, they have nothing to do with the actual belief system, or the principles involved.

Nihilistic Heathen
03-05-2015, 07:52 PM
There is no mythology associated with the core beliefs of Buddhism. The Buddha was a real man, who died at the age of 80. You don't have to buy into any supernatural thoughts or events to buy into the Four Noble Truths, or the Eight-fold Path.

Of course there is mythology loosely associated with Buddhism. But these are mostly cultural influences, they have nothing to do with the actual belief system, or the principles involved.

That looks like a quick Google search and reply. The same type of argument could be made for Christianity.

What about the Jataka's? Are they not necessary for gaining a deeper understainding of the dhamma? There must be reason they are part of the Theravada's Pali Canon.

The Left Sock
03-05-2015, 08:00 PM
Quick Google search? I'm a freaking Buddhist! Why would I have to search for my own beliefs?

The Left Sock
03-05-2015, 08:01 PM
And no, in order to be a Christian, you have to believe in people rising from the dead, which is mythology, and Buddhism requires nothing remotely like that, for it's beliefs.

Nihilistic Heathen
03-05-2015, 08:15 PM
And no, in order to be a Christian, you have to believe in people rising from the dead, which is mythology, and Buddhism requires nothing remotely like that, for it's beliefs.

In order to get into heaven you have to believe in the resurrection and accept Jesus as your savior. It doesn't mean you can't follow the teaching's of Jesus and live a virtuous life. In order to attain Nirvana you have go through the four stages of attainment which require mutliple rebirths. Whatever level you are at you still practice the teaching of the Buddha but are not guaranteed to attain Nirvana when you die. To me there is no difference, if you consider yourself a Christian or a Buddhist you still have to believe in something mythical to reach the desired goal of each religion.

The Left Sock
03-05-2015, 08:19 PM
Oh, there is a difference, and there is definitely mythology in one, and not in the other.

And you don't attain Nirvana when you die. Death is not a requirement.

RWGR
03-05-2015, 08:23 PM
And no, in order to be a Christian, you have to believe in people rising from the dead, which is mythology, and Buddhism requires nothing remotely like that, for it's beliefs.

You just have to believe if you don't live a good life you will come back as Oprah's bicycle seat in the next life.

I mean, the religion practically sells itself.

The Left Sock
03-05-2015, 08:25 PM
How's that ritualistic cannibalism going?

Nihilistic Heathen
03-05-2015, 08:31 PM
Oh, there is a difference, and there is definitely mythology in one, and not in the other.

And you don't attain Nirvana when you die. Death is not a requirement.

Are you claiming reincarnation is a natural phenomenon. As far as I know it has never been proven to occur if you have evidence, not anecdotal evidence either, I would like to see it. As far as death being required to attain Nirvana, that could also be debated.

RWGR
03-05-2015, 08:33 PM
How's that ritualistic cannibalism going?

Not bad, but a bit charred
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZwQTsCiguHc

The Left Sock
03-05-2015, 08:33 PM
Reincarnation is not necessary for a belief in Buddhism.

Zen Buddhism does not espouse a belief in reincarnation.

Once again, the only thing you need for Buddhism, are the Four Noble Truths, and the Eight-fold Path. No mythology involved.

RWGR
03-05-2015, 08:34 PM
Reincarnation is not necessary for a belief in Buddhism.

Zen Buddhism does not espouse a belief in reincarnation.

Once again, the only thing you need for Buddhism, are the Four Noble Truths, and the Eight-fold Path. No mythology involved.

Well, other than the fact the Four Noble Truths and the Eight-fold Path are myths.

The Left Sock
03-05-2015, 08:35 PM
Truths are myths in your world?

Well, that does make a certain amount of sense!

RWGR
03-05-2015, 08:36 PM
Uh oh, I think Mt. St. Sock is getting ready to blow ....

The Left Sock
03-05-2015, 08:38 PM
Don't give up your day job for a career in meteorology, anytime soon!

RWGR
03-05-2015, 08:39 PM
Don't give up your day job for a career in meteorology, anytime soon!

Too late

Nihilistic Heathen
03-05-2015, 09:42 PM
Reincarnation is not necessary for a belief in Buddhism.

Zen Buddhism does not espouse a belief in reincarnation.

Once again, the only thing you need for Buddhism, are the Four Noble Truths, and the Eight-fold Path. No mythology involved.

Well the way I see it is Buddhism comes from a region that is known for it's belief in reincarnation. Buddha himself teaches about different realms of existence and rebirth. The fact that you follow a school that came into existence about 1000 years after Buddha to me is no different then a denomination of Christianity that came into existence long after the birth of christianity, like the Mormon's or Jehovah's for example. It appears the cultural influence you were talking about earlier mainly influences the later school of Buddhism you follow. That doesn't help your argument that there is no myth in Buddhism. You can't claim there is no mythology in Buddhism because your particular denomination came later into a different region and was influenced by that regions culture.

The Left Sock
03-05-2015, 10:07 PM
I don't know how much simpler I can put it.

Zen Buddhists don't believe in reincarnation. They are still Buddhists.

Tibetan Buddhists do believe in reincarnation. They are still Buddhists.

So, in order for Zen to be Buddhists, and Tibetans to be Buddhists, reincarnation is not required.

Basic, deductive logic.

Barry Morris
03-05-2015, 10:18 PM
I don't know how much simpler I can put it.

Zen Buddhists don't believe in reincarnation. They are still Buddhists.

Tibetan Buddhists do believe in reincarnation. They are still Buddhists.

So, in order for Zen to be Buddhists, and Tibetans to be Buddhists, reincarnation is not required.

Basic, deductive logic.

It would therefore appear some buddhists believe in mythology.

The Left Sock
03-05-2015, 11:26 PM
What part of 'required' is the most difficult for you to understand?

Nihilistic Heathen
03-06-2015, 12:31 AM
I don't know how much simpler I can put it.

Zen Buddhists don't believe in reincarnation. They are still Buddhists.

Tibetan Buddhists do believe in reincarnation. They are still Buddhists.

So, in order for Zen to be Buddhists, and Tibetans to be Buddhists, reincarnation is not required.

Basic, deductive logic.

LOL Basic, deductive logic. Nice, it appears valid, but I doubt it is sound.

Zen Buddhists can believe or not believe in reincarnation, it doesn't matter.

Tibetan Buddhists do believe in reincarnation..

So, reincarnation has something to do with Buddhism but is not necessary for Zen Buddhism.

hmm, yeah I don't think that is a sound argument

Lets apply a little more logic...

Buddhism started somewhere between 400-600bc and Zen came approximately 1000 years later. Soc claimed later Buddhist schools were influenced by the cultures they spread too.

Buddha taught about the path to enlightenment and different realms and rebirths required to reach Nirvana. Reincarnation was a contemporary concept in Buddha's time and region.

By the time Buddhism reached Japan and Zen Buddhism was introduced it had changed and been influenced by others for 1000 years. But Zen teaches about reincarnation too.

Perhaps the concept of reincarnation had changed over time as it was introduced and was influenced by different cultures.

With that said, I digress back to my original point, sock said he didnt' want to waste his time on mythology. I merely pointed out that he was Buddhist and that there is mythology in Buddhism. I thought it was kind of funny he started getting apologetic and so I went with it. Now here he is wasting time arguing whether or not myth is in Buddhism. It seems ironic really.

Nihilistic Heathen
03-06-2015, 12:33 AM
What part of 'required' is the most difficult for you to understand?

The thing is reincarnation is required by in order for Buddhists to reach enlightenment, whether you think so or not.

The Left Sock
03-06-2015, 07:17 AM
http://philosophy.lander.edu/logic/syll_prob.html

Nihilistic Heathen
03-06-2015, 11:02 AM
http://philosophy.lander.edu/logic/syll_prob.html

http://philosophy.lander.edu/logic/tvs.html


If you want to be that simple minded.