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RWGR
07-29-2015, 07:49 PM
To think, some Christians support pro-abortion politicians and parties, too

SATANIC CULT PLEDGES FUNDS TO SUPPORT ABORTION RIGHTS

A highly publicized ceremonial unveiling of the satanic figure of Baphomet in Detroit Saturday, an event billed as the “largest public satanic ceremony in history,” sold $25 and $75 tickets, the proceeds of which will be used to support the reproductive rights legal action fund, according to a Temple spokeswoman.

The cult has also set up a donation website with Indiegogo “to challenge arbitrary, insulting abortion regulations,” which as of Wednesday, has raised more than $32,000 for its reproductive rights campaign.

http://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2015/07/29/satanic-cult-pledges-funds-to-support-abortion-rights/

Hans
07-29-2015, 09:01 PM
That means you have to believe in the devil, no?

RWGR
07-29-2015, 09:45 PM
Who has to believe in the devil?

Anapeg
07-29-2015, 10:39 PM
Who has to believe in the devil?

Christians as well as Satanic cults.

Barry Morris
07-29-2015, 11:48 PM
Christians as well as Satanic cults.

It's truly ironic that these people could believe that Satan has any power over God.

Mostly rebellion, I guess. Certainly not a lot of thinking.

RWGR
07-30-2015, 08:45 AM
Christians as well as Satanic cults.

Of course Christians believe in the devil.

His greatest accomplishment is convincing people he does not exist.

Hans
07-30-2015, 07:34 PM
How did he accomplish that? I want to learn, so I can convince the tax people I do not exist.

RWGR
07-31-2015, 11:53 AM
How did he accomplish that? I want to learn, so I can convince the tax people I do not exist.

You love big government, so you'll just have to live with all the "tax people"

Sowing doubt in peoples minds about the existence of the devil is what basically got us to our relative culture: there is no good or evil, only emotions and feelings. Nothing is black and white, all is a fine shade of grey.

Hans
08-01-2015, 03:53 PM
They even made a movie about that you know.

NewCasa
08-04-2015, 02:41 AM
Really? There are still Christians who believe their own lies?

Barry Morris
08-04-2015, 08:29 AM
Really? There are still Christians who believe their own lies?

Bottom line for me is our origin. Nothing can come from nothing.

So where does your faith lie??

Hans
08-04-2015, 11:19 PM
Where does yours lie, if nothing can come from nothing?

Barry Morris
08-13-2015, 03:29 PM
Where does yours lie, if nothing can come from nothing?

You already know.

If nothing can come from nothing, and nothing can be created from within itself, then logically something did it. Something outside the universe.

I choose to believe it was what we call God.

BFLPE
08-13-2015, 03:37 PM
And your God came from?

Barry Morris
08-13-2015, 04:54 PM
And your God came from?

Do you see the implication of the passage of time in your question?? Since God created time, He is outside it. Consequently, His statement from Scripture, "I AM" takes on a special meaning. God didn't "come from" anything, He just IS.

We are the ones who live in time.

BFLPE
08-13-2015, 05:01 PM
So God came from nothing. So God is nothing. Interesting.

Barry Morris
08-13-2015, 06:55 PM
So God came from nothing. So God is nothing. Interesting.

I've always considered it to be a good idea to actually read posts before I reply.

May I recommend that practice to you.

BFLPE
08-13-2015, 07:08 PM
I always read posts before replying. Not sure why you would think otherwise. As for reading posts before replying, if you do indeed do that why not answer the question asked. Where did your God from? Talking about it creating time and existing out of time and stating 'he is' certainly doesn't answer the question.

Barry Morris
08-13-2015, 07:23 PM
I always read posts before replying. Not sure why you would think otherwise. As for reading posts before replying, if you do indeed do that why not answer the question asked. Where did your God from? Talking about it creating time and existing out of time and stating 'he is' certainly doesn't answer the question.

Sorry you don't get it.

"Come from" implies A the passage of time, and B somewhere else.

You and I are finite beings living in time, in this universe. God does neither. Considering that, your question has no meaning.

BFLPE
08-13-2015, 07:37 PM
I think I get it. You don't have an answer but try to explain it anyway.

Barry Morris
08-13-2015, 08:11 PM
I think I get it. You don't have an answer but try to explain it anyway.

Ok, if you want to play a game.

Let's take your question at face value.

Where did God come from??

Lets say he came from (apologies to Bertrand Russell) Teapot Land.

Ok, then where did Teapot land come from??

Are you following along??? Your question makes no sense because it just keeps backing up.

There has to be an ultimate source, and, IMO, that would be God. Outside the universe, outside of time, just existing.

How?? I don't know. I'm finite.

He is infinite.

The Voice
08-13-2015, 09:00 PM
Let me get this straight?


Your God can exist beyond your comprehension but nothing else can?


That is priceless. In other words you have no proof but you are going to pretend you do anyways.

The Voice
08-13-2015, 09:05 PM
And to say your god is the god. The numbers don't actually support that position.


http://www.indexmundi.com/world/religions.html

RWGR
08-13-2015, 09:48 PM
The Christian God is the only god that makes the claim He has offered mankind an opportunity to be saved and live life eternal with Him. No other god makes such claims, or promises. As such, He is unique.

Even non-believers must admit Jesus is the most influential person to ever live. Nothing was the same after His life. Even if you feel nothing was the same in a negative sense, still, nothing was the same.

And it really is no more difficult than this: either Jesus is who He says He is, or He was insane. We can't even claim that He was an extremely influential prophet; He is either The Christ, or He is not.

Your choice. No guns to heads, no undue pressure. But, you do have to eventually make a choice.

If you are 100% convinced He was insane, then this is all a moot point. But if you're not 100% sure He is insane, you owe it to yourself to look into it a little bit more.

Nihilistic Heathen
08-13-2015, 10:01 PM
Barry always claims god exists outside of space and time, which essentially negates the definition of existence. He also adds that god exists outside the universe, negating the definition of universe, which is everything that exists. Then he claims god is infinite which contradicts his earlier convictions that god exists outside of space/time and the universe.

It's too bad Barry can't step outside the comfort zone of his fantasy world and truly see how absurd his argument is.

Barry Morris
08-13-2015, 11:59 PM
Barry always claims god exists outside of space and time, which essentially negates the definition of existence.

Remeber about nothing being created from within itself??



He also adds that god exists outside the universe, negating the definition of universe, which is everything that exists. See above.


Then he claims god is infinite which contradicts his earlier convictions that god exists outside of space/time and the universe.

You do understand what infinite means, do you not??


It's too bad Barry can't step outside the comfort zone of his fantasy world and truly see how absurd his argument is.

You aren't arguing, you're just saying my position is wrong. That's up to you.

I guess you have faith in something from nothing. IMO, that kind of faith is ludicrous.

Barry Morris
08-14-2015, 12:01 AM
And to say your god is the god. The numbers don't actually support that position.




Don't they??

http://www.israelvideonetwork.com/sc...ic-and-reason/

NewCasa
08-14-2015, 02:16 AM
Really? You're still at it? Don't you get bored? lol

The Voice
08-14-2015, 08:31 AM
The Christian God is the only god that makes the claim He has offered mankind an opportunity to be saved and live life eternal with Him. No other god makes such claims, or promises. As such, He is unique.

Even non-believers must admit Jesus is the most influential person to ever live. Nothing was the same after His life. Even if you feel nothing was the same in a negative sense, still, nothing was the same.

And it really is no more difficult than this: either Jesus is who He says He is, or He was insane. We can't even claim that He was an extremely influential prophet; He is either The Christ, or He is not.

Your choice. No guns to heads, no undue pressure. But, you do have to eventually make a choice.

If you are 100% convinced He was insane, then this is all a moot point. But if you're not 100% sure He is insane, you owe it to yourself to look into it a little bit more.

You have no PROOF that he claimed to be anything. All you have is hearsay written long after his death.

The Voice
08-14-2015, 08:40 AM
Don't they??

http://www.israelvideonetwork.com/sc...ic-and-reason/

Approximately 1/3 of the worlds population claim to be Christian.

How many of those people actually go to church?

And how many will actually go to heaven?

We already know that you can't say all of them because you have already discounted many of the christian warriors as non-worthy or not true christians.

If your God was truly benevolent he would end all the war and suffering in the world.

Instead he is a vengeful god who damns the vast majority to purgatory.

The numbers just don't add up my friend.

RWGR
08-14-2015, 01:10 PM
You have no PROOF that he claimed to be anything. All you have is hearsay written long after his death.

Lots of proof He made this claim, both religious and secular sources.

“Now, there was about this time Jesus, a wise man, if it be lawful to call him a man, for he was a doer of wonderful works—a teacher of such men as receive the truth with pleasure. He drew over to him both many of the Jews, and many of the Gentiles. He was [the] Christ; and when Pilate, at the suggestion of the principal men amongst us, had condemned him to the cross..."

-Flavious Jesephus, secular historian, 37 AD - 100 AD

“They were accustomed to meet on a fixed day before dawn and sing responsively a hymn to Christ as to a god, and bound themselves to a solemn oath, not to any wicked deeds, but never to commit any fraud, theft, adultery, never to falsify their word, not to deny a trust when they should be called upon to deliver it up..."

Pliny the Younger, secular historian, 61 AD - 112 AD

RWGR
08-14-2015, 01:12 PM
If your God was truly benevolent he would end all the war and suffering in the world.

.

we created this world through sin and free will.

God will end all war and suffering, just not in this world, which He freely admits is basically the principality of Satan.

You want a God who will let you live as you wish, give you a wink of an eye and bring you to eternal salvation when you're done living this life as YOU wish.

Sorry, doesn't work that way.

Barry Morris
08-14-2015, 03:29 PM
Approximately 1/3 of the worlds population claim to be Christian.

You really think God cares what people claim?? He know the heart.


How many of those people actually go to church?

What does that matter?? Lots of people go to church. It's one of the "righteous" things that the bible calles a "filthy rag".


And how many will actually go to heaven?

See above. God knows


We already know that you can't say all of them because you have already discounted many of the christian warriors as non-worthy or not true christians.

Can't quite remember that. Probably because it never happened. But God will judge, don't you concern yourself about it.


If your God was truly benevolent he would end all the war and suffering in the world. And make robots out of all of us?? We have free will, and you can see where it got us.


Instead he is a vengeful god who damns the vast majority to purgatory.

"For God so loved the world that He gave His only Son, that whosoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life". Remember that?? Quite a different point of view. Funny you should show off your lack of bible knowledge by mentioning purgatory. That's a construct of the Roman Catholic Church to get more money from their people. Not biblical.


The numbers just don't add up my friend.
I think your "math" is deficient.

RWGR
08-14-2015, 06:15 PM
Purgatory was made up by the RCC, that's why ...

I Corinthians 3:11-15

For no other foundation can any one lay than that which is laid, which is Jesus Christ. Now if any one builds on the foundation with gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble—each man’s work will become manifest; for the Day will disclose it, because it will be revealed with fire, and the fire will test what sort of work each one has done. If the work which any man has built on the foundation survives, he will receive a reward. If any man’s work is burned up, he will suffer loss, though he himself will be saved, but only as through fire.

So, the works of the faithful will be tested after death...but, wait ...at death we either go to Hell or Heaven right away. There would be no need to judge in death in either case. If you're in Hell, you're there for good. If you're in Heaven, you will not be judged, you made it!

Hmmmm...

I Corinthians 3:11-15 may well be the most straightforward text in all of Sacred Scripture when it comes to Purgatory:

For no other foundation can any one lay than that which is laid, which is Jesus Christ. Now if any one builds on the foundation with gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble—each man’s work will become manifest; for the Day will disclose it, because it will be revealed with fire, and the fire will test what sort of work each one has done. If the work which any man has built on the foundation survives, he will receive a reward. If any man’s work is burned up, he will suffer loss, though he himself will be saved, but only as through fire.

http://www.catholic.com/blog/tim-staples/is-purgatory-in-the-bible

:) :) :)

Nihilistic Heathen
09-03-2015, 09:53 PM
Remeber about nothing being created from within itself??

I never said anything about creating something, I was talking about existence.


See above.

Why, it doesn't address my point about universe being everything that exists.



You do understand what infinite means, do you not??

I do know what infinite means, you don't. You are the one claiming god exists outside of the universe.


You aren't arguing, you're just saying my position is wrong. That's up to you.

You aren't even addressing my points, so it doesn't come as a surprise you don't see my argument. Although that is your status quo.


I guess you have faith in something from nothing. IMO, that kind of faith is ludicrous.

I don't have faith in something from nothing, in fact I didn't even mention it, you did at the beginning of your post. I bet that burning that straw man made you feel a lot more secure in your faith though.

Barry Morris
09-04-2015, 01:13 AM
Nothing was said.

Nihilistic Heathen
09-04-2015, 01:06 PM
Nothing was said.

I answer: It is absurd to introduce -- under whatever term disguised -- into the conception of a thing, which is to be cogitated solely in reference to its possibility, the conception of its existence. If this is admitted, you will have apparently gained the day, but in reality have enounced nothing but a mere tautology. I ask, is the proposition, this or that thing (which I am admitting to be possible) exists, an analytical or a synthetical proposition? If the former, there is no addition made to the subject of your thought by the affirmation of its existence; but then the conception in your minds is identical with the thing itself, or you have supposed the existence of a thing to be possible, and then inferred its existence from its internal possibility -- which is but a miserable tautology. The word reality in the conception of the thing, and the word existence in the conception of the predicate, will not help you out of the difficulty. For, supposing you were to term all positing of a thing reality, you have thereby posited the thing with all its predicates in the conception of the subject and assumed its actual existence, and this you merely repeat in the predicate. But if you confess, as every reasonable person must, that every existential proposition is synthetical, how can it be maintained that the predicate of existence cannot be denied without contradiction? -- a property which is the characteristic of analytical propositions, alone.
~ Immaneul Kant

Barry Morris
09-04-2015, 07:35 PM
I answer: It is absurd to introduce -- under whatever term disguised -- into the conception of a thing, which is to be cogitated solely in reference to its possibility, the conception of its existence. If this is admitted, you will have apparently gained the day, but in reality have enounced nothing but a mere tautology. I ask, is the proposition, this or that thing (which I am admitting to be possible) exists, an analytical or a synthetical proposition? If the former, there is no addition made to the subject of your thought by the affirmation of its existence; but then the conception in your minds is identical with the thing itself, or you have supposed the existence of a thing to be possible, and then inferred its existence from its internal possibility -- which is but a miserable tautology. The word reality in the conception of the thing, and the word existence in the conception of the predicate, will not help you out of the difficulty. For, supposing you were to term all positing of a thing reality, you have thereby posited the thing with all its predicates in the conception of the subject and assumed its actual existence, and this you merely repeat in the predicate. But if you confess, as every reasonable person must, that every existential proposition is synthetical, how can it be maintained that the predicate of existence cannot be denied without contradiction? -- a property which is the characteristic of analytical propositions, alone.
~ Immaneul Kant

Kant seems only to look inward.

Neitche's comment about him was quite amusing: ""Kant wanted to prove, in a way that would dumbfound the common man, that the common man was right: that was the secret joke of this soul." (Wiki)

Seems to my simple understanding that a look at the universe around us show ample evidence of the existence of a creator. His existence does not depend on what I believe of Him.

But if your purpose here is to "baffle 'em with bull****", I confess this is an admirable shot!!!

Anapeg
09-04-2015, 08:10 PM
Really? You're still at it? Don't you get bored? lol

This stuff goes on ad nauseam.