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KDawg
09-27-2015, 07:59 PM
The cross shows us a different way of measuring success. Ours is to plant the seeds. God sees to the fruits of our labors. And if at times our efforts and works seem to fail and not produce fruit, we need to remember that we are followers of Jesus Christ and his life, humanly speaking, ended in failure, the failure of the cross.
http://abcnews.go.com/US/read-pope-francis-yorks-st-patricks-cathedral/story?id=34023376

Just before Jesus drew His last breath on the cross, He said, "It is finished."

That was His triumph and ours over sin -- a debt paid in full, NOT a failure.

For Pope Francis to say what he did shows he is not Christian.

Barry Morris
09-27-2015, 09:56 PM
Only when man is taught that he must add something to the work of God is Christs death, the death of God Himself in payment for our sin, considered a failure.

Bluesky
09-28-2015, 02:13 PM
http://abcnews.go.com/US/read-pope-francis-yorks-st-patricks-cathedral/story?id=34023376

Just before Jesus drew His last breath on the cross, He said, "It is finished."

That was His triumph and ours over sin -- a debt paid in full, NOT a failure.

For Pope Francis to say what he did shows he is not Christian.

You've misunderstood the words.

The Pope (on the sruface) is right. Humanly speaking, the cross is a scandal, a shame and a failure. From God's point of view, it was a cosmic and eternal success.

If this is not how he meant it, how would the rest of his words make any sense?
Look at the first sentence of that paragraph again ; a different way of measuring success. Don't you get it?

KDawg
09-28-2015, 08:29 PM
You've misunderstood the words.

The Pope (on the sruface) is right. Humanly speaking, the cross is a scandal, a shame and a failure. From God's point of view, it was a cosmic and eternal success.

If this is not how he meant it, how would the rest of his words make any sense?
Look at the first sentence of that paragraph again ; a different way of measuring success. Don't you get it?
They don't because it's double-speak. You can try to spin this if you want, but Francis said Jesus' life as a human was a failure. I most vehemently disagree.

If you accept THE theme of the bible - that Jesus Christ died on the cross for us because it was God's plan for our salvation, then it makes no sense. God's plan for us was a success, not a failure.

Pope Francis is a smart man and said exactly what he meant to say.

Barry Morris
09-28-2015, 11:02 PM
They don't because it's double-speak. You can try to spin this if you want, but Francis said Jesus' life as a human was a failure. I most vehemently disagree.

If you accept THE theme of the bible - that Jesus Christ died on the cross for us because it was God's plan for our salvation, then it makes no sense. God's plan for us was a success, not a failure.

Pope Francis is a smart man and said exactly what he meant to say.

It is obvious to the believer that Jesus' life was a triumph.

But Francis says, "humanly speaking". The non-believer thinks that Jesus' life ended on the cross, the most horrible way to die in ancient time ("accursed is he who hangs on a tree") But the human viewpoint is not the reality.

Of course God's plan for us was a success, but only to those who know and trust Him.

Bluesky
09-29-2015, 09:11 AM
Kdawg, I'm not spinning anything.

Listen, if he really meant that the death of Christ was a failure, he would have the entire church hounding him, creating a huge crisis.

Even the Bible calls the cross a scandal and foolishness, humanly speaking. Please, think about this, because you have totally misunderstood this. ii have noticed in my Facebook feed that a few fringe websites have picked up on this supposed blasphemy of his, but it isn't gaining any traction, because most people can see how his words were meant. They were meant in the context of "humanly speaking".

Do you not think I would be first in line to criticize the pope if that is what he truly meant. After all, I am an evangelical Protestant. You'd think I would be all over this if it iss as you say.

You've misinterpreted his words, my man.

Barry Morris
09-29-2015, 10:00 AM
Kdawg, I'm not spinning anything.

Listen, if he really meant that the death of Christ was a failure, he would have the entire church hounding him, creating a huge crisis.

Even the Bible calls the cross a scandal and foolishness, humanly speaking. Please, think about this, because you have totally misunderstood this. ii have noticed in my Facebook feed that a few fringe websites have picked up on this supposed blasphemy of his, but it isn't gaining any traction, because most people can see how his words were meant. They were meant in the context of "humanly speaking".

Those "fringe websites" only preach to their own.

Like fringe churches, they either don't last, or don't grow. And wreck a lot of people on the way!!

RWGR
09-30-2015, 01:00 PM
They don't because it's double-speak.
.

Theologians for centuries have said the cross is a scandal, as Blue pointed out. Francis went out of his way to say he was talking strictly of his "human life".

Funny there was no uproar about this anywhere else. But, I guess when your theology points you towards the Pope being the anti-Christ then theological manipulations and twisting of words will be commonplace.

Bluesky
09-30-2015, 02:33 PM
KDawg's misunderstanding is hardly an UPROAR...

RWGR
09-30-2015, 04:15 PM
KDawg's misunderstanding is hardly an UPROAR...

I didn't say his was. I said the fact it didn't cause one anywhere should be some solid proof there ain't much there.

But you're still angry. I get it. The Pope has left many non-and anti-Catholics reeling.

Barry Morris
09-30-2015, 04:40 PM
I didn't say his was. I said the fact it didn't cause one anywhere should be some solid proof there ain't much there.

But you're still angry. I get it. The Pope has left many non-and anti-Catholics reeling.

Not the ones who know their bible.

Bluesky
09-30-2015, 04:52 PM
I didn't say his was. I said the fact it didn't cause one anywhere should be some solid proof there ain't much there.

But you're still angry. I get it. The Pope has left many non-and anti-Catholics reeling.


Winger says


Funny there was no uproar about this anywhere else.



Sometimes you play us for really dumb...

You know how it makes you look?

yeah...

RWGR
09-30-2015, 05:32 PM
Catholics have Pope Francis, you have...Rick Warren.

Your anger is both understandable and warranted.

RWGR
09-30-2015, 05:37 PM
Ravi is flirting with...anti-Christ...ness (is that a word?), too:

There is a striking verse in the New Testament, in which the apostle Paul refers to the cross of Jesus Christ as foolishness to the Greek and a stumbling block to the Jew.

http://rzim.org/a-slice-of-infinity/the-scandal-of-the-cross-2



http://d111vui60acwyt.cloudfront.net/product_photos/39666/The_Scandal_of_the_Cross_original.jpg

RWGR
09-30-2015, 05:40 PM
In the American church and in our culture in general, we are so accustomed to seeing crosses on church buildings or in sanctuaries, wearing them on chains, or carrying them in processions that it’s virtually impossible for us to grasp the utter horror that the very mention of crucifixion provoked in the Ancient World. “Do you sell gold crosses?” a customer inquired in the jewelry section of a Denver, Colorado, department store. “What kind would you like?” asked the clerk, as she pulled out one of the trays, “A plain one or one that has the little man on it?” For most of us, the cross is an endearing, often sentimental, religious symbol that evokes positive feelings.

Originally, however, when the apostles preached about the cross it was the absolute antithesis of that. Far from being a religious symbol, originally the cross was shocking, revolting and offensive, a disgusting irreligious symbol if there ever was one. Since the typical Methodist today is largely unaware of this, it is important to recover, what the apostle Paul calls, the “scandal” of the cross (1 Corinthians 1:23).

but we preach Christ crucified: a stumbling block to Jews and foolishness to Gentiles,

- See more at: http://goodnewsmag.org/2011/04/recovering-the-scandal-of-the-cross/#sthash.sO0oiNLx.dpuf

RWGR
09-30-2015, 05:42 PM
Only when man is taught that he must add something to the work of God is Christs death, the death of God Himself in payment for our sin, considered a failure.

...and we see both Barry and K Dawg were totally unaware of the scandal of the cross, or what was meant by it.

And it's Catholics who are not biblical? According to this site the exact opposite is true.

RWGR
09-30-2015, 05:50 PM
Look what this Protestant wants to do...recover the scandal of the cross!! http://markdroberts.com/htmfiles/resources/scandalcross.htm


And this Protestant pastor says: "The Apostle Paul uses an interesting word when speaking of the cross of the Lord Jesus. In Galatians 5:11 he uses the phrase "the offense of the cross." The word in the original for "offense" is skandalon, from which our word "scandal" derives. The "scandal" of the cross"

http://www.valleycenter.com/Articles-Churches-c-2013-11-07-85755.113122-The-scandal-of-the-cross.html

According to Barry, anyone who says that...


Only when man is taught that he must add something to the work of God is Christs death, the death of God Himself in payment for our sin, considered a failure.

What say you, Soonet Protestants? Seems you are guilty as charged!

Barry Morris
10-01-2015, 12:06 AM
Catholics have Pope Francis, you have...Rick Warren.

Your anger is both understandable and warranted.

Really??

Your continual need for us to be angry is very revealing.

Is there an underlying reason why you hate non-Roman Catholics??

I suspect that's the root of your need to accuse others of being angry.

Barry Morris
10-01-2015, 12:07 AM
...and we see both Barry and K Dawg were totally unaware of the scandal of the cross, or what was meant by it.

And it's Catholics who are not biblical? According to this site the exact opposite is true.

That's funny. Foolish and quite wrong, but funny.