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b&aMom
10-20-2015, 03:44 PM
So the Liberals campaigned on legalizing pot. Globe and Mail has an article on it, mentioning the Conservative system set up for mass production for legal medicinal will be awesome for expansion to rec use. Greenhouse sales will increase. We could grow the best, replace oil exports with pot exports, and perhaps Obama would finally approve Keystone pipeline. If it was filled with pot.

On the up side, perhaps this will reduce organized crime...maybe.

Barry Morris
10-20-2015, 06:13 PM
10 percent of the funds to fight this will come from religious conservatives.

The rest will come from drug dealers!!!

Bluesky
10-20-2015, 07:22 PM
I just heard a lawyer from Colorado talk about this. It has increased the criminal element, because of course, they are undercutting the retailers with better prices. He was very concerned about what is happening in Colo. He is sorry that we will be going in the same direction. If Trudeau insists on following through on the plan, I do hope he studies Colorado's experience closely to avoid the pitfalls that they are now experiencing.

Barry Morris
10-20-2015, 09:14 PM
I have difficulty believing that.

Bootleggers don't have lower prices, and moonshiners aren't that common anymore.

Why should pot be any different??

Hans
10-20-2015, 10:24 PM
Look at the Netherlands to really understand how this works.
They have many years of experience in actual policies and their effects.
No need to reinvent the wheel.

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2013/jan/03/dutch-drug-policy-pragmatic

http://www.cogsci.ucsd.edu/~pineda/COGS174/presentations/W11/Drug%20Policy%20in%20the%20Netherlands.pdf

Anapeg
10-21-2015, 01:04 AM
Look at the Netherlands to really understand how this works.
They have many years of experience in actual policies and their effects.
No need to reinvent the wheel.

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2013/jan/03/dutch-drug-policy-pragmatic

http://www.cogsci.ucsd.edu/~pineda/COGS174/presentations/W11/Drug%20Policy%20in%20the%20Netherlands.pdf

As evidenced by previous threads where you introduce one thing or another from Europe, you constantly forget Canada does not respond as those in Europe. What works there does nothing here and vise versa. We are different, with different morals, different mind sets, and different levels of acceptance.

Hans
10-21-2015, 07:39 AM
And you forget that there is a large population of Canadians that were not born here.
20.6% to be exact. That leaves less than 80% "pure" Canadians.
You might not be so different after all.

http://www12.statcan.gc.ca/nhs-enm/2011/as-sa/99-010-x/99-010-x2011001-eng.cfm

riggs
10-21-2015, 09:33 AM
I believe decriminalization will happen before legalization.

Chachinga
10-21-2015, 10:08 AM
The country would be far better off if they legalized marijuana and banned alcohol.
It heavily impairs judgement with all kinds of negative consequences, turns people nasty and cruel, and also into annoying, babbling idiots that society could do quite nicely without.

Lance1
10-21-2015, 10:16 AM
It should cut the work load on the justice system (Police/courts) so they can focus on hard drugs and not waste their time on pot smokers.

BTW if a person does want to smoke pot they probably already do. I never heard a person in my life who wanted to smoke pot say.

"The only thing stopping me is the current marijuana law" The stuff has always been available everywhere. LOL

Barry Morris
10-21-2015, 10:24 AM
The country would be far better off if they legalized marijuana and banned alcohol.
It heavily impairs judgement with all kinds of negative consequences, turns people nasty and cruel, and also into annoying, babbling idiots that society could do quite nicely without.

That's what they thought when the USA brought in Prohibition.

They learned.

IMHO
10-21-2015, 10:46 AM
Would a heavy pot smoker not be considered impaired? Would you want a heavy pot smoker behind the wheel? At what point is a pot smoker deemed impaired? I admit...I am not very educated about pot and never smoked it or a cigarette.

riggs
10-21-2015, 10:59 AM
Would a heavy pot smoker not be considered impaired? Would you want a heavy pot smoker behind the wheel? At what point is a pot smoker deemed impaired? I admit...I am not very educated about pot and never smoked it or a cigarette.

That's another big issue with the police association. The only reliable (accurate) method of testing is a blood test. Therefore no roadside devices exist so they would have to depend on 24 hour labs. Before this even happens the medical and legal community would have to get together and come up with legal levels of impairment that would hold up in court.

Bluesky
10-21-2015, 11:19 AM
That's another big issue with the police association. The only reliable (accurate) method of testing is a blood test. Therefore no roadside devices exist so they would have to depend on 24 hour labs. Before this even happens the medical and legal community would have to get together and come up with legal levels of impairment that would hold up in court.

Yeah, they are saying that it is next to impossible to prove impairment in Colorado.
The other thing - because maryjane is legal now in that state, distrivution becomes much easier, and the criminal is selling the weed in other consumables, candy, brownies, etc, to enticve younger people to get started. So the use of the weed is growing.

Lance1
10-21-2015, 11:45 AM
That's another big issue with the police association. The only reliable (accurate) method of testing is a blood test. Therefore no roadside devices exist so they would have to depend on 24 hour labs. Before this even happens the medical and legal community would have to get together and come up with legal levels of impairment that would hold up in court.

The same can be said about pharmacy subscription drugs. There are some whacky pills that should not allow a person to drive I would bet.

I do not smoke weed but I hope the police division who was set aside to chase pot smokers can now chase the person who broke into my garage.

riggs
10-21-2015, 01:04 PM
The same can be said about pharmacy subscription drugs. There are some whacky pills that should not allow a person to drive I would bet.

I do not smoke weed but I hope the police division who was set aside to chase pot smokers can now chase the person who broke into my garage.

You're right. There are a lot of pharmaceutical drugs that cause impairment and I'm quite sure some recommend on the script to not operate motorized vehicles. I for one am happy to see less alcohol impaired drivers but believe there's an increased danger with other types of impairment in combination with distracted driving. As for your garage.....I'm sure someone from "someone broke into my garage" police division is working tirelessly just for you.

Hans
10-21-2015, 07:06 PM
Yeah, they are saying that it is next to impossible to prove impairment in Colorado.
The other thing - because maryjane is legal now in that state, distrivution becomes much easier, and the criminal is selling the weed in other consumables, candy, brownies, etc, to enticve younger people to get started. So the use of the weed is growing.

I think that is conjecture. They will have a lot more time to track and process dealers because they will not be busy trying to catch users.
I believe it will lead to less dealers on the streets.
On top of that, the price will decrease significantly because it will be based on a regulated system of supply and demand. It might become just as cheap as a bottle of pop. I don't see any criminals selling bottles of pop.
The use of "weed" will definitely grow, but that is not necessarily a bad thing.

Anapeg
10-21-2015, 07:38 PM
And you forget that there is a large population of Canadians that were not born here.
20.6% to be exact. That leaves less than 80% "pure" Canadians.
You might not be so different after all.

http://www12.statcan.gc.ca/nhs-enm/2011/as-sa/99-010-x/99-010-x2011001-eng.cfm

Yet we are. What works over there oft times fails miserably here. Different sensibilities, different expectations, different backgrounds. Add to this Europe's liberal morals. They are very comfortable with open nakedness, cat houses, drugs, etc. Just watching advertising there and here and you will see what I am pointing out.

Bluesky
10-22-2015, 06:21 AM
I think that is conjecture. They will have a lot more time to track and process dealers because they will not be busy trying to catch users.
I believe it will lead to less dealers on the streets.
On top of that, the price will decrease significantly because it will be based on a regulated system of supply and demand. It might become just as cheap as a bottle of pop. I don't see any criminals selling bottles of pop.
The use of "weed" will definitely grow, but that is not necessarily a bad thing.

I am not conjecturing anything. I am simply repeating what I heard a Colorado lawyer say on a radio interview.

Bluesky
10-22-2015, 10:03 AM
Here are some interesting articles and videos on the topic of MJ and Denver, Colo.
http://www.denverpost.com/marijuana/ci_28993836/marijuana-industry-drives-denver-metro-areas-real-estate-recovery

http://www.denverpost.com/marijuana/ci_28993769/gop-candidates-debate-economy-colorado-pot-offers-opportunity

http://www.economist.com/news/united-states/21674771-determined-push-win-over-moms-under-way-mother-all-highs

Barry Morris
10-22-2015, 11:34 AM
I wonder if anyone has done any studies about physical reactions, and reaction times between a person normal and stoned.

Maybe if, when applying for your licence, you would have to get a blood test, then test those physical normals. Then when tested by police, a comparison could be made.

Anapeg
10-22-2015, 05:28 PM
I can tell you first hand how it was with the older, milder marijuana. Scary. I have no idea how I did straight ahead but I stopped immediately upon seeing a red light, regardless where I was on the street. I drove at about half the posted speed limit, or so I am told. I did it once and only once, drive that is, I smoked for a bit.

Lance1
10-23-2015, 01:55 PM
I wonder if anyone has done any studies about physical reactions, and reaction times between a person normal and stoned.

Maybe if, when applying for your licence, you would have to get a blood test, then test those physical normals. Then when tested by police, a comparison could be made.

Physical reactions change day to day , just look at the Toronto Blue Jays.

Chachinga
10-23-2015, 02:26 PM
I can tell you first hand how it was with the older, milder marijuana. Scary. I have no idea how I did straight ahead but I stopped immediately upon seeing a red light, regardless where I was on the street. I drove at about half the posted speed limit, or so I am told. I did it once and only once, drive that is, I smoked for a bit.

That is hilarious!
There are some people that shouldn't drink.
Well, there are also some people that shouldn't smoke!
Could we convince you to have a couple of puffs and drive around a closed course with a few obstacles? ;)

Hans
10-23-2015, 08:04 PM
I wonder if anyone has done any studies about physical reactions, and reaction times between a person normal and stoned.

Maybe if, when applying for your licence, you would have to get a blood test, then test those physical normals. Then when tested by police, a comparison could be made.

That would not work. My reaction times when hammered are likely faster than the reaction times of a perfectly sober 80 year old grandmother.

There are many factors to consider when talking about impairment, including how it actually effect you.
For example, Cocaine intake results in decreased reaction times. So driving under the influence of Cocaine could be considered a good thing if we just took into account reaction times. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1334411/

Barry Morris
10-23-2015, 09:46 PM
That would not work. My reaction times when hammered are likely faster than the reaction times of a perfectly sober 80 year old grandmother.

There are many factors to consider when talking about impairment, including how it actually effect you.
For example, Cocaine intake results in decreased reaction times. So driving under the influence of Cocaine could be considered a good thing if we just took into account reaction times. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1334411/

The grandmother's reaction time would be on record.

If a drug increased a reactions time, it's unlikely to cause an accident, right?? Or are there other factors involved, like poorer judgement?? Possibly enough to justify a blood test.

Anapeg
10-23-2015, 10:13 PM
That is hilarious!
There are some people that shouldn't drink.
Well, there are also some people that shouldn't smoke!
Could we convince you to have a couple of puffs and drive around a closed course with a few obstacles? ;)

You buyin'? 'cause if you are, we can talk.

Hans
10-24-2015, 01:12 AM
I know what: we do a Wallace Terrace run and keep the windows closed up.

Bluesky
11-09-2015, 09:21 AM
http://www.ottawasun.com/2015/11/08/impact-of-marijuana-legalization-in-colorado-pretty-grim

Hans
11-09-2015, 07:58 PM
“It’s absolutely difficult. Drug-impaired drivers often get off after testing several times over the legal limit (5 nanograms of THC per millilitre of blood). They have argued they weren’t impaired because they use marijuana every day for medicinal reasons and don’t get high. Strangely, juries buy this story even though it’s not logical.”

Someone does not like the judicial system and wishes they could throw people in jail because they believe they are right as opposed to the jury.

dancingqueen
11-10-2015, 02:46 PM
I wonder if anyone has done any studies about physical reactions, and reaction times between a person normal and stoned.

Maybe if, when applying for your licence, you would have to get a blood test, then test those physical normals. Then when tested by police, a comparison could be made.

Actually it seems this is being done, not sure how long the study is going for, but I see advertisements on the ttc and at LMC for CAMH looking for volunteers for such a study.
I'm looking forward to see what kinds of results this shows.

Nihilistic Heathen
11-11-2015, 11:41 AM
http://www.ottawasun.com/2015/11/08/impact-of-marijuana-legalization-in-colorado-pretty-grim

Supposedly Neutral Federal Report Stacks The Deck Against Marijuana Legalization (http://www.forbes.com/sites/jacobsullum/2015/09/17/supposedly-neutral-federal-report-stacks-the-deck-against-marijuana-legalization/)

Drug Warriors Try but Fail to Show That Marijuana Legalization Has Been a Disaster in Colorado (https://reason.com/blog/2014/08/15/drug-warriors-try-but-fail-to-show-that)

Barry Morris
11-11-2015, 01:32 PM
Supposedly Neutral Federal Report Stacks The Deck Against Marijuana Legalization (http://www.forbes.com/sites/jacobsullum/2015/09/17/supposedly-neutral-federal-report-stacks-the-deck-against-marijuana-legalization/)

Drug Warriors Try but Fail to Show That Marijuana Legalization Has Been a Disaster in Colorado (https://reason.com/blog/2014/08/15/drug-warriors-try-but-fail-to-show-that)

"....desperately latches onto any assertion that seems to support the prohibitionist position, regardless of whether it happens to be true."

Regardless of my own position, I truly hate it when people manipulate and lie to push their agenda.

Anapeg
11-11-2015, 02:48 PM
"....desperately latches onto any assertion that seems to support the prohibitionist position, regardless of whether it happens to be true."

Regardless of my own position, I truly hate it when people manipulate and lie to push their agenda.

Common practice in most debates, be they pro/anti drugs or global climate change. This in reference to the societies with the most to lose not any one local.