PDA

View Full Version : Netanyahu criticized for saying Holocaust was mufti's idea, not Hitler's



Hans
10-21-2015, 07:13 PM
There's no question Adolf Hitler led Nazi Germany when it implemented the "final solution" in an effort to kill all Jews.

But, in a speech this week, Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu suggested it wasn't Hitler's idea.

Rather, he pointed to Jerusalem's then-grand mufti, Haj Amin al-Husseini, who met with the Nazi leader in Germany in the early 1940s.

"Hitler didn't want to exterminate the Jews at the time, he wanted to expel the Jews," Netanyahu said Tuesday at the 37th Zionist Congress, according to a transcript on his website. "And Haj Amin al-Husseini went to Hitler and said, 'If you expel them, they'll all come here.'

'So what should I do with them?' (Hitler) asked. (Husseini) said, 'Burn them.'"


http://www.cnn.com/2015/10/21/middleeast/netanyahu-hitler-grand-mufti-holocaust/index.html

That's pretty low to try to blame the holocaust on Muslims.

Barry Morris
10-21-2015, 09:40 PM
So you are saying this never happened??

Bluesky
10-22-2015, 06:36 AM
I figured that Netanyahu would not just make this story up out of thin air. So here is one source he might have used.

http://myislam.dk/articles/en/rychlak%20hitlers-mufti-the-dark-legacy-of-haj-amin-al-husseini.php

The primary written evidence on this issue came at the Nuremberg trials in the form of an affidavit that quoted Adolf Eichmann's deputy, Dieter Wisliceny (who was subsequently executed as a war criminal), saying: "The Mufti was also one of the initiators of the systematic extermination of European Jewry by the Germans and had been the permanent collaborator and adviser of Eichmann and Himmler in the execution of this plan… He was one of Eichmann's best friends and had constantly incited him to accelerate the extermination measures." The affidavit had a few errors, and Husseini denied ever having met Eichmann, but Wisliceny read it over at Nuremberg and verified its substance.
The affidavit also reported on instances when Eichmann was willing to send Jewish prisoners to Palestine, but Husseini intervened and the prisoners were killed. When pressed by an underling to explain why they could not just be deported, Eichmann reportedly said: "I am a personal friend of the Grand Mufti. We have promised him that no European Jew would enter Palestine any more. Do you understand now?"

http://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/1.681525

But even these two researchers do not claim that the dialogue described by Netanyahu ever took place. They say Hitler reached the conclusion to exterminate the Jews because of his desire to nurture Husseini, who opposed the transfer of Jews to pre-state Israel.
read more: http://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/1.681525

Barry Morris
10-22-2015, 08:29 AM
There's always someone ready to create dialogue to bolster claims of intent.

But we already knew the intent.

And no, Hans, this is not trying to blame the Holocaust on the Muslims. Hitler and the Nazis's remain responsible for that.

Hans
10-23-2015, 06:15 AM
There's always someone ready to create dialogue to bolster claims of intent.

But we already knew the intent.

And no, Hans, this is not trying to blame the Holocaust on the Muslims. Hitler and the Nazis's remain responsible for that.

But, in a speech this week, Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu suggested it wasn't Hitler's idea.
"Hitler didn't want to exterminate the Jews at the time, he wanted to expel the Jews," Netanyahu said Tuesday at the 37th Zionist Congress, according to a transcript on his website. "And Haj Amin al-Husseini went to Hitler and said, 'If you expel them, they'll all come here.'

'So what should I do with them?' (Hitler) asked. (Husseini) said, 'Burn them.


You know the difference between expel and extermination, correct?

Barry Morris
10-23-2015, 09:16 AM
But, in a speech this week, Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu suggested it wasn't Hitler's idea.
"Hitler didn't want to exterminate the Jews at the time, he wanted to expel the Jews," Netanyahu said Tuesday at the 37th Zionist Congress, according to a transcript on his website. "And Haj Amin al-Husseini went to Hitler and said, 'If you expel them, they'll all come here.'

'So what should I do with them?' (Hitler) asked. (Husseini) said, 'Burn them.


You know the difference between expel and extermination, correct?

As long as you know what intent means, we're done.

Bluesky
10-23-2015, 01:04 PM
Just to clarify. If you give me the idea to rob a bank instead of stealing from widows on the street, does that absolve me from the guilt of the robbery? Of course not.
That's why this ought not to be a story. People that claim that this gets Hitler off the hook are being stopid, and are simply trying to score political points. Hitler was as guilty as sin for doing what he did.
He got the idea from someone, somewhere at some point in history. Who cares if it was the Mufti, the Muffinman or the Milkman.

Apparently Netanyahu is back pedalling now, softening what he said because he was wrong in the details.

Hans
10-23-2015, 07:52 PM
But there is some truth to what he said. Hitler did initially want to expel Jews rather than exterminate them.
There was actually a plan called the Madagascar plan, to expel Jews to Madagascar.
They wanted to resettle 1 million Jews per year, for 4 years. The first year was supposed to be 1940.

The final solution that called for the extermination of the Jews came into effect in 1942.

Now why the decision for the final solution instead of the Madagascar solution was made we will never fully know.
But that does not take away it is possible they got the idea from someone else.

And as pointed out, that does not take away the fact they are responsible for using that idea.
At the same time it does not take away the fact that Netanyahu did try to point out a Muslim connection. As we all know Jews and Muslims do not get along really well, for obvious reasons.
So in a way it was a feeble attempt to blame Muslims, mixed with historic events.

Barry Morris
10-23-2015, 09:50 PM
Considering all the statements about the Arab desire to exterminate Israel, it's a natural idea.

RWGR
10-26-2015, 04:18 PM
That's common knowledge, that Hitler simply tried to refine ideas that had been out there decades before. Nothing he believed was a creation of his mind; he simply brought to the surface the racist and anti-Jewish sentiment that was ripe in Victorian Europe and parts of the Middle East.

Anapeg
10-27-2015, 12:16 AM
Who introduced the plan to Hitler is not nearly as important as who acted on the idea. Who furthered the idea. Saying Haj Amin al-Husseini is guilty of the killing of the Jews simply for planting the seed of an idea is tantamount to saying Alfred Nobel is guilty of murder anytime someone is shot.

Nihilistic Heathen
10-27-2015, 04:47 PM
Who introduced the plan to Hitler is not nearly as important as who acted on the idea. Who furthered the idea. Saying Haj Amin al-Husseini is guilty of the killing of the Jews simply for planting the seed of an idea is tantamount to saying Alfred Nobel is guilty of murder anytime someone is shot.

I believe that Netanyahu claimed that Haj Amin al-Husseini telling Hitler to burn the Jews was tantamount to giving Hitler the idea.

Which is the proper use of tantamount. Just had to throw that out there. LOL

Anapeg
10-28-2015, 11:42 AM
I believe that Netanyahu claimed that Haj Amin al-Husseini telling Hitler to burn the Jews was tantamount to giving Hitler the idea.

Which is the proper use of tantamount. Just had to throw that out there. LOL

Hypothetically speaking, you are experiencing money trouble and I say robbing a bank will solve your monetary problems, instilling the idea. You, in turn, rob a bank and get caught. Which of us is in trouble?

Nihilistic Heathen
10-28-2015, 03:03 PM
Hypothetically speaking, you are experiencing money trouble and I say robbing a bank will solve your monetary problems, instilling the idea. You, in turn, rob a bank and get caught. Which of us is in trouble?

Ironically, I knew someone who was convicted of conspiracy for doing something similar. He told his brother who was going to rob a store to rob a bank instead because he would get more money and if he got caught it would be the same crime. Unfortunately his brother told the police it was his brother that told him to rob a bank instead and they both ended up in Stoney Mountain.

Giving someone the idea to commit a crime is tantamount to conspiracy.

Anapeg
10-28-2015, 04:17 PM
Ironically, I knew someone who was convicted of conspiracy for doing something similar. He told his brother who was going to rob a store to rob a bank instead because he would get more money and if he got caught it would be the same crime. Unfortunately his brother told the police it was his brother that told him to rob a bank instead and they both ended up in Stoney Mountain.

Giving someone the idea to commit a crime is tantamount to conspiracy.

Can't see it myself but you say it is so, therefore I will drop it.