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Barry Morris
10-22-2015, 10:50 PM
http://experimentaltheology.blogspot.ca/2015/10/emotional-intelligence-and-sola.html

Good thoughts.

Bluesky
10-23-2015, 01:15 PM
What do you believe? Can you say anything for certain? Or must we always say, "According to MY perspective, here is what I think it means?"
Can we say anything with authority?

It seems to me that the author is saying, "No one knows for sure, so just be careful to modify everything you say with 'from my point of view'."

Barry Morris
10-23-2015, 01:20 PM
What do you believe? Can you say anything for certain? Or must we always say, "According to MY perspective, here is what I think it means?"
Can we say anything with authority?

It seems to me that the author is saying, "No one knows for sure, so just be careful to modify everything you say with 'from my point of view'."

I can say, as I have before, something doesn't come from nothing.

Beyond that, I trust God.

Bluesky
10-23-2015, 02:48 PM
Ah, so you don't want to discuss this.

Hans
10-23-2015, 07:56 PM
We have been here many times before. I think everyone who visits these boards knows the famous words "something doesn't come from nothing".
It results in a very closed view and the impossibility for discussion.

Barry Morris
10-23-2015, 09:40 PM
We have been here many times before. I think everyone who visits these boards knows the famous words "something doesn't come from nothing".
It results in a very closed view and the impossibility for discussion.

Maybe some people recognize it as authoritative!! :) :) :)

Of course, if it's not, by all means continue.

Barry Morris
10-23-2015, 09:41 PM
Ah, so you don't want to discuss this.

Nothing I like better than a good study of God's word.

But tell me, what do YOU do when you find something beyond your understanding??

You might also define authoritative for us, in the context of Scripture.

RWGR
10-26-2015, 04:14 PM
I can say, as I have before, something doesn't come from nothing.

Beyond that, I trust God.

But so does the other person in a different Protestant denomination down the street, who disagrees with you on if baptism is needed to be saved.

Is God lying to one of you?

Barry Morris
10-26-2015, 06:25 PM
But so does the other person in a different Protestant denomination down the street, who disagrees with you on if baptism is needed to be saved.

Is God lying to one of you?

Nope. Interpretation differences, often a result of a lack of bible knowledge.

What do you do when RCC folk disagree on a minor point??

Never mind.

RWGR
10-27-2015, 08:26 AM
Nope. Interpretation differences, often a result of a lack of bible knowledge.

What do you do when RCC folk disagree on a minor point??

Never mind.

Barry, you're trying to avoid the question. Both of you truly believe God will lead you to correct interpretation. But that clearly is not the case.

If you both truly believe it, but it is clear it is not happening, then something is amiss.

Either God is lying to one of you, or the fundamental way you go about it is wrong.

I know which option I pick.

Barry Morris
10-27-2015, 10:42 AM
Barry, you're trying to avoid the question. Both of you truly believe God will lead you to correct interpretation. But that clearly is not the case.

If you both truly believe it, but it is clear it is not happening, then something is amiss.

Either God is lying to one of you, or the fundamental way you go about it is wrong.

I know which option I pick.

Remember that line where it says, "All have sinned"??

I believe that one of the results of that is that our own biases affect our interpretations. And this is most often on minor points among truly Christian Protestant churches. As you hate to admit, 95 percent of our beliefs are the same!! So if we differ on some point, it rarely makes a significant difference.

So it's not our way of doing things that is wrong, it's your understanding of the way we do things. Speaking of biases....

How do you know the magisterium got it right??? Because they say say??? Hmmm. Didn't help with Ribera and Bellarmine.

RWGR
10-27-2015, 11:34 AM
Remember that line where it says, "All have sinned"??

I believe that one of the results of that is that our own biases affect our interpretations.

So then it seems to me you make quite a good case for a magesterium, as leaving it up to Sola Scriptura will no work, seeing "all have sinned".

And this is most often on minor points among truly Christian Protestant churches. As you hate to admit, 95 percent of our beliefs are the same!! So if we differ on some point, it rarely makes a significant difference.

You throw that 95% out there, yet have never, ever supported the claim. Why? Because it's not supportable. It's a fabrication.

And even if it was only a 5% disagreement, what if that disagreement deals with how to gain eternity? How to save your soul? At that point it doesn't matter if the disagreement is 0.01%. You guys can't even agree on what saves the soul.

So it's not our way of doing things that is wrong, it's your understanding of the way we do things. Speaking of biases....

that makes no sense. Above you admitted certain Protestants disagree because their interpretations are wrong. Now it's the RCC's fault you're wrong?

How do you know the magisterium got it right??? Because they say say???

Because the thoughtful interpretations of men over the last two thousands years is much more solid than the interpretations of your leaders today.

And, Christ promised to keep the Church from error in its teachings.

Here's your biggest issue: you believe in Sola Scriptura, but Sola Scriptura isn't in the Bible.

It's a self-defeating concept.

Barry Morris
10-27-2015, 11:43 AM
Remember that line where it says, "All have sinned"??

I believe that one of the results of that is that our own biases affect our interpretations.

So then it seems to me you make quite a good case for a magesterium, as leaving it up to Sola Scriptura will no work, seeing "all have sinned".

And this is most often on minor points among truly Christian Protestant churches. As you hate to admit, 95 percent of our beliefs are the same!! So if we differ on some point, it rarely makes a significant difference.

You throw that 95% out there, yet have never, ever supported the claim. Why? Because it's not supportable. It's a fabrication.

And even if it was only a 5% disagreement, what if that disagreement deals with how to gain eternity? How to save your soul? At that point it doesn't matter if the disagreement is 0.01%. You guys can't even agree on what saves the soul.

So it's not our way of doing things that is wrong, it's your understanding of the way we do things. Speaking of biases....

that makes no sense. Above you admitted certain Protestants disagree because their interpretations are wrong. Now it's the RCC's fault you're wrong?

How do you know the magisterium got it right??? Because they say say???

Because the thoughtful interpretations of men over the last two thousands years is much more solid than the interpretations of your leaders today.

And, Christ promised to keep the Church from error in its teachings.

Here's your biggest issue: you believe in Sola Scriptura, but Sola Scriptura isn't in the Bible.

It's a self-defeating concept.

"Christ promised to keep the Church from error in its teachings. " Where is that?? And since the magisterium tells you what to believe, why do you believe it?? Are you sure they gotr it right.

The "thoughtful interpretations of men over the last two thousands years" has led to all kinds of corruption. And todays leaders have access to more portions of the Scripture than those men. which has led to better interpretations, most of which the RCC must reject to keep its power.

Sola Scriptura isn't my biggest issue. The claimed authority of the RCC is one for you. And your personal bias keeps you in bondage.

Trust in God is my foundation. Nowhere does scripture tell us to submit to a man, or a church. Your denomination is built on the sand of a trust in man. Thank God many Catholics recognize this.

RWGR
10-27-2015, 11:52 AM
"Christ promised to keep the Church from error in its teachings. " Where is that?? And since the magisterium tells you what to believe, why do you believe it?? Are you sure they gotr it right.

here's just a few ...

John 16:12-13New International Version (NIV)

12 “I have much more to say to you, more than you can now bear. 13 But when he, the Spirit of truth, comes, he will guide you into all the truth. He will not speak on his own; he will speak only what he hears, and he will tell you what is yet to come.

Luke 10:16English Standard Version (ESV)

16 “The one who hears you hears me, and the one who rejects you rejects me, and the one who rejects me rejects him who sent me.”

1 Timothy 3:15New International Version (NIV)

15 if I am delayed, you will know how people ought to conduct themselves in God’s household, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and foundation of the truth.

The "thoughtful interpretations of men over the last two thousands years" has led to all kinds of corruption.

You're talking about the political organization of the Church, in which corruption has been present at times. That is to be expected, seeing the Church is full of sinners.

But when it comes to teaching Truth, the Church is promised the leadership of the Holy Spirit.

And todays leaders have access to more portions of the Scripture than those men. which has led to better interpretations, most of which the RCC must reject to keep its power.

More access to more scriptures? Are you guys adding scripture as we go?

Sola Scriptura isn't my biggest issue. The claimed authority of the RCC is one for you. And your personal bias keeps you in bondage.

Now you're getting overly-emotional and angry.

Too bad.

Name one human institution that has come even close to lasting as long as the RCC. Even the longest-lasting nation or government doesn't compare. And why is that?

Because human institutions eventually fail, and die. Decay is part of human institutions.

Yet the RCC is still here, almost two thousand years later. Why? Because it's not a human institution; it's the Church promised by Christ.

You know this, and you lash out in anger.

But there is not an iota of doubt in my mind you know this, deep-down.

Prayers for you.

Barry Morris
10-27-2015, 06:59 PM
BM: "Christ promised to keep the Church from error in its teachings. " Where is that?? And since the magisterium tells you what to believe, why do you believe it?? Are you sure they gotr it right.

RW: here's just a few ...

John 16:12-13New International Version (NIV)

12 “I have much more to say to you, more than you can now bear. 13 But when he, the Spirit of truth, comes, he will guide you into all the truth. He will not speak on his own; he will speak only what he hears, and he will tell you what is yet to come.

BM: Context is king. This scripture applies to individuals, not the church. The Spirit of Truth is the Holy Spirit, whose filling Jesus predicted (Pentecost)

RW: Luke 10:16English Standard Version (ESV)
16 “The one who hears you hears me, and the one who rejects you rejects me, and the one who rejects me rejects him who sent me.”

BM: Again context rules. This verse was directed at the disciples, not the church. Now, it has some application to us as believers, but in no way give authority to any denomination.

RW: 1 Timothy 3:15New International Version (NIV)
15 if I am delayed, you will know how people ought to conduct themselves in God’s household, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and foundation of the truth.

BM: Again, pulled from context. From the beginning of the chapter, it speaks of the leaders of the church, the servants of the Body. Again, in no way does it give any authority to any denomination.

BM: And here you are, quoting bibles your church does not approve. Why is that?? And I don't see any of those applying to a church. They apply to individuals.
The "thoughtful interpretations of men over the last two thousands years" has led to all kinds of corruption.

RW: You're talking about the political organization of the Church, in which corruption has been present at times. That is to be expected, seeing the Church is full of sinners. : But when it comes to teaching Truth, the Church is promised the leadership of the Holy Spirit.

BM: And todays leaders have access to more portions of the Scripture than those men. which has led to better interpretations, most of which the RCC must reject to keep its power.

RW: More access to more scriptures? Are you guys adding scripture as we go?

BM: You changed my words. Why did you do that?? And the interesting thing is you quotes those scriptures above, those not sourced in the RCC, but in m****cripts available to modern scholars.

BM: Sola Scriptura isn't my biggest issue. The claimed authority of the RCC is one for you. And your personal bias keeps you in bondage.

RW:Now you're getting overly-emotional and angry.
Too bad.

BM: You're projecting again.

RW: Name one human institution that has come even close to lasting as long as the RCC. Even the longest-lasting nation or government doesn't compare. And why is that?
Because human institutions eventually fail, and die. Decay is part of human institutions.
Yet the RCC is still here, almost two thousand years later. Why? Because it's not a human institution; it's the Church promised by Christ.

BM: You so believe. Actually the denomination of the RCC is younger than that, by about 300 years. And then it had a major split 700 years after that.
But the real church, the Body of Christ is bigger than that, AND dates to Christ's day. Of course, as pointed out, three Popes didn't think so. But Vatican II did.

RW: You know this, and you lash out in anger.
But there is not an iota of doubt in my mind you know this, deep-down. Prayers for you.

BM: Sorry, but no. Don't project your anger on me.

Hans
10-27-2015, 07:19 PM
Maybe some people recognize it as authoritative!! :) :) :)

Of course, if it's not, by all means continue.

Space exists, the Earth exists.
Now you can argue about how it became to exist, but there is no denying it exists within dimensions that at some point had to created.
And if they were "created" than such creation is proof that something can come from nothing.

Barry Morris
10-27-2015, 10:34 PM
Space exists, the Earth exists.
Now you can argue about how it became to exist, but there is no denying it exists within dimensions that at some point had to created.
And if they were "created" than such creation is proof that something can come from nothing.

This is proof that before the something of the universe, there was nothing???

Thank you Hans!!!

RWGR
10-28-2015, 10:39 AM
BM: "Christ promised to keep the Church from error in its teachings. " Where is that?? And since the magisterium tells you what to believe, why do you believe it?? Are you sure they gotr it right.

RW: here's just a few ...

John 16:12-13New International Version (NIV)

12 “I have much more to say to you, more than you can now bear. 13 But when he, the Spirit of truth, comes, he will guide you into all the truth. He will not speak on his own; he will speak only what he hears, and he will tell you what is yet to come.

BM: Context is king. This scripture applies to individuals, not the church. The Spirit of Truth is the Holy Spirit, whose filling Jesus predicted (Pentecost)

RW: Luke 10:16English Standard Version (ESV)
16 “The one who hears you hears me, and the one who rejects you rejects me, and the one who rejects me rejects him who sent me.”

BM: Again context rules. This verse was directed at the disciples, not the church. Now, it has some application to us as believers, but in no way give authority to any denomination.

RW: 1 Timothy 3:15New International Version (NIV)
15 if I am delayed, you will know how people ought to conduct themselves in God’s household, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and foundation of the truth.

BM: Again, pulled from context. From the beginning of the chapter, it speaks of the leaders of the church, the servants of the Body. Again, in no way does it give any authority to any denomination.

BM: And here you are, quoting bibles your church does not approve. Why is that?? And I don't see any of those applying to a church. They apply to individuals.
The "thoughtful interpretations of men over the last two thousands years" has led to all kinds of corruption.

RW: You're talking about the political organization of the Church, in which corruption has been present at times. That is to be expected, seeing the Church is full of sinners. : But when it comes to teaching Truth, the Church is promised the leadership of the Holy Spirit.

BM: And todays leaders have access to more portions of the Scripture than those men. which has led to better interpretations, most of which the RCC must reject to keep its power.

RW: More access to more scriptures? Are you guys adding scripture as we go?

BM: You changed my words. Why did you do that?? And the interesting thing is you quotes those scriptures above, those not sourced in the RCC, but in m****cripts available to modern scholars.

BM: Sola Scriptura isn't my biggest issue. The claimed authority of the RCC is one for you. And your personal bias keeps you in bondage.

RW:Now you're getting overly-emotional and angry.
Too bad.

BM: You're projecting again.

RW: Name one human institution that has come even close to lasting as long as the RCC. Even the longest-lasting nation or government doesn't compare. And why is that?
Because human institutions eventually fail, and die. Decay is part of human institutions.
Yet the RCC is still here, almost two thousand years later. Why? Because it's not a human institution; it's the Church promised by Christ.

BM: You so believe. Actually the denomination of the RCC is younger than that, by about 300 years. And then it had a major split 700 years after that.
But the real church, the Body of Christ is bigger than that, AND dates to Christ's day. Of course, as pointed out, three Popes didn't think so. But Vatican II did.

RW: You know this, and you lash out in anger.
But there is not an iota of doubt in my mind you know this, deep-down. Prayers for you.

BM: Sorry, but no. Don't project your anger on me.

I'm not going to entertain your lies and misrepresentations anymore, it's just not worth it.

Sadly, I seem to be the last person here to take that stance. Everyone else has been ignoring you,a lesson I should have learned a while ago.

Barry Morris
10-28-2015, 05:16 PM
I'm not going to entertain your lies and misrepresentations anymore, it's just not worth it.

Sadly, I seem to be the last person here to take that stance. Everyone else has been ignoring you,a lesson I should have learned a while ago.

It is unfortunate that you cannot answer. Discussions with you prompt me to search for answers. In this case, as in others, we come to the place where you must attack the messenger, because the institution you have faith in has let you down.

Again, good luck with your institution. It isn't the church of the Living God. No real church would play so fast and loose with the bible.

Hans
10-28-2015, 10:12 PM
This is proof that before the something of the universe, there was nothing???

Thank you Hans!!!

No, I said the dimensions it exists in had to be created at some point. That is not the same as stating there was nothing prior.

Barry Morris
10-28-2015, 10:17 PM
No, I said the dimensions it exists in had to be created at some point. That is not the same as stating there was nothing prior.

Odd you use the word "created", as in creation, created. Both imply a creator.

And you only back up creation one step.

Hans
10-29-2015, 07:23 PM
Things get created constantly.
We create electricity by generation. That does not imply a creator, it simply implies creation.
We then use that electricity for a large variety of things.

How the universe was created can be open for discussion, not that it was created.

Barry Morris
10-29-2015, 08:02 PM
Things get created constantly.
We create electricity by generation. That does not imply a creator, it simply implies creation.
We then use that electricity for a large variety of things.

How the universe was created can be open for discussion, not that it was created.

Energy changes state.

We say created but it's not the same thing.

And it's sure not an example of something from nothing.

Hans
10-29-2015, 08:27 PM
There is no example of something from nothing.

Barry Morris
10-29-2015, 09:22 PM
There is no example of something from nothing.

Never was, never will be.

Barney Rubble
10-29-2015, 10:11 PM
There is no example of something from nothing.

Is that an objective or relative truth?
The big bang is supposed to be something from nothing so saying that something can not come from nothing is YOUR relative truth & therefore not truth at all...only yours

We say that something created something from nothing & that we call GOD