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Barry Morris
11-18-2015, 10:25 PM
There are those who contend that Allah is the same as Yahweh.

"The "Allah" in the current Arabic Christian Bibles is literally "the God" and does refer to the God of the Bible. Advise Muslims that if this is really the "Allah" they are worshipping, then they should stop bowing down toward a meteorite five times a day and the crescent moon should neither start their "holy" month of Ramadan nor top their mosques. If the Allah they are worshipping is the God of the Bible, then they should worship Him as the Bible instructs."

http://www.billionbibles.org/sharia/allah-moon-god.html

If he is, explain Mecca.

The Voice
11-19-2015, 06:40 AM
Stop using Propaganda sites to support your position.

The Koran says that Allah is the God of Abraham but like I said earlier who are you to challenge the word of the Koran

Everybody knows it is your position that the bible is the word of god. Funny how skeptical you are about the Muslim Holy Book.

I suppose as a militant Christian you will never back down. Your religion is true all others are false.

Well for me my friend the math just doesn't add up.

But hey I am sure in your mind you are part of the 144 thousand and everyone else is irrelevant.

Barry Morris
11-19-2015, 07:02 AM
Stop using Propaganda sites to support your position.

The Koran says that Allah is the God of Abraham but like I said earlier who are you to challenge the word of the Koran

Everybody knows it is your position that the bible is the word of god. Funny how skeptical you are about the Muslim Holy Book.

I suppose as a militant Christian you will never back down. Your religion is true all others are false.

Well for me my friend the math just doesn't add up.

But hey I am sure in your mind you are part of the 144 thousand and everyone else is irrelevant.

You're agenda is showing. Especially after I mentioned that my thoughts were possibilities, AND presented two opposing sites to the idea of Allah as the moon god.

One of the them DID mention the dilemma Islam has about Mecca. Perhaps you would like to consider the problem. WHY do they appear to worship a meteorite, installed in that building??

Oh, and you keep saying "The Koran says that Allah is the God of Abraham". Where is that, please?? (Disregarding the problem that Islam believes the Koran should not be translated, but must be read in the original language, AND that it clearly contradicts itself, with later writings considered to be the truth).

You also said, "I suppose as a militant Christian you will never back down. Your religion is true all others are false." God is true, all religion has error. Think about it.

PS the 144,000 in heaven is a JW belief, contradicted by the immediate context. Just FYI.

Oh, and please tell me what kind of sites you approve.

RWGR
11-19-2015, 09:49 AM
I think a legitimate case could be made for either side: Allah is the God of the Bible, or He is not.

Bluesky
11-19-2015, 10:25 AM
A very simple test. Does God have a Son? Does He exist eternally in three persons, Father, Son and Holy Spirit? Yes.

Does Allah? No

Ergo...

RWGR
11-19-2015, 10:41 AM
I'm not saying Allah is God, I'm saying Muslims believe He is the God of Abraham. In that sense, He is the same God.

I'm not talking about the fact they distorted Him to a god we do not recognize.

They believe they worship the God of Abraham. Both are considered Abrahamic religions.

Barry Morris
11-19-2015, 10:59 AM
A very simple test. Does God have a Son? Does He exist eternally in three persons, Father, Son and Holy Spirit? Yes.

Does Allah? No

Ergo...

Thank you.

RWGR
11-19-2015, 11:33 AM
What are the three Abrahamic religions?

Judaism, Christianity, and Islam.

All three claim ancestry to Abraham, and the God of Abraham.

Now, we may totally disagree with the Islamic version of the God of Abraham, rightly so; but that doesn't mean He isn't the same God.

Jehovah Witnesses do not believe God had a divine Son, yet you don't deny they worship the God of the Bible.

Barry Morris
11-19-2015, 11:48 AM
The Muslims may claim the ancestry to Abraham, but who do they consider Allah to be in reality??

It's just a question with alternate answers.

RWGR
11-19-2015, 11:53 AM
Agreed.

The Voice
11-21-2015, 07:46 AM
I see a bunch of Christians on here claiming they know what is written in the Koran.

Who are you guys to say what God the Muslims worship? If they say it is Abrahams God who are you to challenge that.

I know you SURE AS HELL wouldn't allow a Muslim to Categorically state that YOUR GOD is something other than what you claim it to be.

PRICELESS and yet very telling at the same time.

RWGR
11-21-2015, 10:00 AM
Who are you guys to say what God the Muslims worship? If they say it is Abrahams God who are you to challenge that.


Don't lump us all together. As you can see from my past posts I see how both sides can be argued, but find it difficult to say Muslims do not believe Allah is not the same God we worship.

Barry Morris
11-21-2015, 11:16 AM
....I see how both sides can be argued, ......

Gosh, I think I said that.

But why isn't the Voice quoting specifics from the Koran??

Barry Morris
11-21-2015, 11:37 AM
So why IS the crescent moon a part of Muslim ornamentation.

Perhaps the Voice could explain that, and the meterorite in Mecca, and their apparent worship of it while he's about it.

From the Koran, of course.

RWGR
11-22-2015, 07:08 PM
Gosh, I think I said that.



Even stopped clock is right twice a day :) :) :)

Barry Morris
11-22-2015, 09:15 PM
Even stopped clock is right twice a day :) :) :)

Yeah, but I suspect you use a 24 hour clock!!!

RWGR
11-23-2015, 09:08 AM
errrr...

Chachinga
11-23-2015, 10:31 AM
ummmm...

Barry Morris
11-23-2015, 02:05 PM
I see a bunch of Christians on here claiming they know what is written in the Koran.

Who are you guys to say what God the Muslims worship? If they say it is Abrahams God who are you to challenge that.

I know you SURE AS HELL wouldn't allow a Muslim to Categorically state that YOUR GOD is something other than what you claim it to be.

PRICELESS and yet very telling at the same time.

You missed some stuff. Perhaps you could respond.

Simple questions arise from the following:

"The "Allah" in the current Arabic Christian Bibles is literally "the God" and does refer to the God of the Bible. Advise Muslims that if this is really the "Allah" they are worshipping, then they should stop bowing down toward a meteorite five times a day and the crescent moon should neither start their "holy" month of Ramadan nor top their mosques. If the Allah they are worshipping is the God of the Bible, then they should worship Him as the Bible instructs."

Why the meteorite?? Why the crescent moon??

The Voice
11-23-2015, 02:18 PM
JUST LIKE YOU IGNORE THE WRITING OF THE OLD TESTAMENT when it suits you, it is their new covenant.

Barry Morris
11-23-2015, 02:35 PM
JUST LIKE YOU IGNORE THE WRITING OF THE OLD TESTAMENT when it suits you, it is their new covenant.

You keep harping about the Koran, as if you know something about it. Why aren't you referencing it??

It is also obvious that you know little about the relationship between the Old and New Testaments.

This is not a surprise.

RWGR
11-23-2015, 03:00 PM
I once had a cat named Nala.

Suspiciously sounds like "Allah".

Hmmmm...

Barney Rubble
11-23-2015, 09:22 PM
Qur’an
4:171 O People of the Scripture! Do not exaggerate in your religion nor utter aught concerning Allah save the truth. The Messiah, Jesus son of Mary, was only a messenger of Allah, and His word which He conveyed unto Mary, and a spirit from Him. So believe in Allah and His messengers, and say not “Three” – Cease! (it is) better for you! – Allah is only One Allah. Far is it removed from His Transcendent Majesty that He should have a son. His is all that is in the heavens and all that is in the earth. And Allah is sufficient as Defender.

19:88-92 They say: “(Allah) Most Gracious has begotten a son!” Indeed ye have put forth a thing most monstrous! At it the skies are ready to burst, the earth to split asunder, and the mountains to fall down in utter
ruin, That they should invoke a son for (Allah) Most Gracious. For it is not consonant with the majesty of (Allah) Most Gracious that He should beget a son.

17:111 Say: “Praise be to Allah, who begets no son, and has no partner in (His) dominion: Nor (needs) He any to protect Him from humiliation: yea, magnify Him for His greatness and glory!” (His) dominion: Nor (needs) He any to protect Him from humiliation: yea, magnify Him for His greatness and glory!” Say: “Those who invent a lie against Allah will never prosper.” A little enjoyment in this world!- and then, to Us will be their return, then shall We make them taste the severest penalty for their blasphemies.


Seeing that The GOD of The Bible does have a Son, I find the god of the Qur’an not the same as the Islamic god is alone & son-less



Ibrahim ibn Azar (Arabic: إبراهيم‎, translit. ʾIbrāhīm, pronounced [ʔibraːˈhiːm]), known as Abraham in the Hebrew bible, is recognized in Islam as a prophet and apostle [1][2] of God (Arabic: الله‎ Allāh) and patriarch of many peoples. In Muslim belief, Abraham fulfilled all the commandments and trials which God tried him with over his lifetime. As a result of his unwavering faith in God, Abraham was promised by God to be a leader to all the nations of the world.[3] The Quran extols Abraham as a model, an exemplar, obedient and not an idolator.[4] In this sense, Abraham has been described as representing "primordial man in universal surrender to the Divine Reality before its fragmentation into religions separated from each other by differences in form".[5] The Islamic holy day Eid al-Adha is celebrated in memory of the bravery of Abraham, and Muslims perform the pilgrimage to pay homage at the Kaaba which Abraham had set up and reformed.[6]

Muslims believe that the prophet Abraham became the leader of the righteous in his time and it was through him that the people of both Arabia and Israel came. Abraham, in the belief of Islam, was instrumental in cleansing the world of idolatry at the time. Paganism was cleared out by Abraham in both Arabia and Canaan. He spiritually purified both places as well as physically sanctifying the houses of worship. Abraham and Ismail (Ishmael) further established the rites of pilgrimage,[7] or Hajj, which are still followed by Muslims today. Muslims maintain that Abraham further asked God to bless both the lines of his progeny, of Ismail (Ishmael) and Ishaq (Isaac), and to keep all of his descendants in the protection of God. They also believe that Muhammad is a descendant of Abraham through Ishmael.[citation needed]


Big deal: They believe in Abraham as a fore-father yet deny Jesus as Son Of GOD so...in my opinion...2 different gods are worshipped here!

The Voice
11-23-2015, 09:59 PM
Qur’an
4:171 O People of the Scripture! Do not exaggerate in your religion nor utter aught concerning Allah save the truth. The Messiah, Jesus son of Mary, was only a messenger of Allah, and His word which He conveyed unto Mary, and a spirit from Him. So believe in Allah and His messengers, and say not “Three” – Cease! (it is) better for you! – Allah is only One Allah. Far is it removed from His Transcendent Majesty that He should have a son. His is all that is in the heavens and all that is in the earth. And Allah is sufficient as Defender.

19:88-92 They say: “(Allah) Most Gracious has begotten a son!” Indeed ye have put forth a thing most monstrous! At it the skies are ready to burst, the earth to split asunder, and the mountains to fall down in utter
ruin, That they should invoke a son for (Allah) Most Gracious. For it is not consonant with the majesty of (Allah) Most Gracious that He should beget a son.

17:111 Say: “Praise be to Allah, who begets no son, and has no partner in (His) dominion: Nor (needs) He any to protect Him from humiliation: yea, magnify Him for His greatness and glory!” (His) dominion: Nor (needs) He any to protect Him from humiliation: yea, magnify Him for His greatness and glory!” Say: “Those who invent a lie against Allah will never prosper.” A little enjoyment in this world!- and then, to Us will be their return, then shall We make them taste the severest penalty for their blasphemies.


Seeing that The GOD of The Bible does have a Son, I find the god of the Qur’an not the same as the Islamic god is alone & son-less



Ibrahim ibn Azar (Arabic: إبراهيم‎, translit. ʾIbrāhīm, pronounced [ʔibraːˈhiːm]), known as Abraham in the Hebrew bible, is recognized in Islam as a prophet and apostle [1][2] of God (Arabic: الله‎ Allāh) and patriarch of many peoples. In Muslim belief, Abraham fulfilled all the commandments and trials which God tried him with over his lifetime. As a result of his unwavering faith in God, Abraham was promised by God to be a leader to all the nations of the world.[3] The Quran extols Abraham as a model, an exemplar, obedient and not an idolator.[4] In this sense, Abraham has been described as representing "primordial man in universal surrender to the Divine Reality before its fragmentation into religions separated from each other by differences in form".[5] The Islamic holy day Eid al-Adha is celebrated in memory of the bravery of Abraham, and Muslims perform the pilgrimage to pay homage at the Kaaba which Abraham had set up and reformed.[6]

Muslims believe that the prophet Abraham became the leader of the righteous in his time and it was through him that the people of both Arabia and Israel came. Abraham, in the belief of Islam, was instrumental in cleansing the world of idolatry at the time. Paganism was cleared out by Abraham in both Arabia and Canaan. He spiritually purified both places as well as physically sanctifying the houses of worship. Abraham and Ismail (Ishmael) further established the rites of pilgrimage,[7] or Hajj, which are still followed by Muslims today. Muslims maintain that Abraham further asked God to bless both the lines of his progeny, of Ismail (Ishmael) and Ishaq (Isaac), and to keep all of his descendants in the protection of God. They also believe that Muhammad is a descendant of Abraham through Ishmael.[citation needed]


Big deal: They believe in Abraham as a fore-father yet deny Jesus as Son Of GOD so...in my opinion...2 different gods are worshipped here!

Here's where you get a chance to rectify the old testament with the new testament Barney.

The God of the OLD TESTIMENT didn't have any children did he now Barney?

How are you going to rectify that inconsistency?

Oh but I know??? Old Covenant, New Covenant good for the Christians but not for the Muslims?

The Voice
11-23-2015, 10:03 PM
You keep harping about the Koran, as if you know something about it. Why aren't you referencing it??

It is also obvious that you know little about the relationship between the Old and New Testaments.

This is not a surprise.

I know all I need to know about the Inconsistencies between the old and new testament to know that as a critical thinker I am not buying that hocus pocus.

The LAWS of the Old Testament either ARE or ARE NOT the will of your GOD???

The Voice
11-23-2015, 10:06 PM
A very simple test. Does God have a Son? Does He exist eternally in three persons, Father, Son and Holy Spirit? Yes.

Does Allah? No

Ergo...

Sorry Blue that is a faith based answer. It holds no weight unless you have faith in it's content.

Without proof you have nothing but faith.

As for me, I have Math.

Barry Morris
11-23-2015, 10:23 PM
I know all I need to know about the Inconsistencies between the old and new testament to know that as a critical thinker I am not buying that hocus pocus.

The LAWS of the Old Testament either ARE or ARE NOT the will of your GOD???

I was right. Sorry.

Barry Morris
11-23-2015, 10:27 PM
How are you going to rectify that inconsistency?



Pretty simple, for those who actually KNOW the bible.

The first verse to mention this is in Genesis. "Let US make man in OUR image."

You follow?? Or does God talk to himself?? And remember this, both Muslims and Christians believe in ONE God!! How so??

Barney Rubble
11-24-2015, 05:38 AM
Here's where you get a chance to rectify the old testament with the new testament Barney.

The God of the OLD TESTIMENT didn't have any children did he now Barney?

How are you going to rectify that inconsistency?

Oh but I know??? Old Covenant, New Covenant good for the Christians but not for the Muslims?

The Old Testament did have a Son Of GOD & easily found by googling but it is so much easier to spout off that none exists without truthfully checking into it oneself
and I have already shown you quotes in the Koran that prove that Muslims believe in JESUS but not His divinity.
There is no inconsistency & the math is there but I suspect that you wouldn't believe it when shown anyways.
It's funny that you boast a claim yet show no proof for your argument & when it is countered, you just say that is faith based.
I wonder.....jump outta a plane & say, "There is no gravity. I do not believe in gravity!"
Truth is 1+1=2 & there really is gravity whether you are shown truth & still refuse to believe it.

RWGR
11-24-2015, 10:28 AM
Big deal: They believe in Abraham as a fore-father yet deny Jesus as Son Of GOD so...in my opinion...2 different gods are worshipped here!

Barney, no one is arguing that is not happening. What some of us are getting at is the Muslims believe He is the same God.

Barry Morris
11-24-2015, 10:54 AM
Barney, no one is arguing that is not happening. What some of us are getting at is the Muslims believe He is the same God.

The Mormons claim that too.

But their definitions are whacked!!

RWGR
11-24-2015, 12:17 PM
Agreed

The Voice
11-29-2015, 06:42 AM
That's interesting no actual mention of the son of god or a trinity in the Old testament that I can see???

But you are more than happy to use what is likely a misinterpretation of older Greek or Hebrew text in order to bolster your assertion???

http://www.freethoughtdebater.org/2011/12/30/bible-errors-and-contradictions/

I really like the comments below especially the one where the Rabbi doesn't really care what is written in the new testament because it is false.

Barry Morris
11-29-2015, 09:38 AM
That's interesting no actual mention of the son of god or a trinity in the Old testament that I can see???

But you are more than happy to use what is likely a misinterpretation of older Greek or Hebrew text in order to bolster your assertion???

http://www.freethoughtdebater.org/2011/12/30/bible-errors-and-contradictions/

I really like the comments below especially the one where the Rabbi doesn't really care what is written in the new testament because it is false.

How do you account for the obvious plurality of God in the OT?

Research Christophany.

Remember Spocks three finger salute?? Rabbinical tradition.

Barry Morris
11-29-2015, 09:40 AM
"...what is likely a misinterpretation of older Greek or Hebrew text..."

That's an interesting statement. Think about it for a bit, and then compare and correct whatever verses you think have a problem.