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View Full Version : The future of the Steel Mill



Mice Elf
01-20-2016, 05:20 PM
Is it time to tear it down? I may be right offside, but I feel the benefits of this process far outweigh the option of looking for another buyer and going through the same cyclical nonsense again with this hundred+ yr old mill. The city can take control of this operation with help and grants from the Prov and Fed. This is some of the most pristine land in Ontario as far as location goes. Possibly some of the best land in Canada if it was clean. Hub of the Great Lakes! It would take generations to clean it out. We'd have stable jobs for decades, acres of prime land, no more pollution. A new beginning.

Reckidecky
01-20-2016, 07:40 PM
Ya, makes total sense...screw the 10k to 15k people that depend on it directly and the other 10k or more that would be indirectly affected. Obviously you are not somebody who is reliant on the company so what do you care, right? Be careful what you wish for.

IMHO
01-20-2016, 08:10 PM
Is it time to tear it down? I may be right offside, but I feel the benefits of this process far outweigh the option of looking for another buyer and going through the same cyclical nonsense again with this hundred+ yr old mill. The city can take control of this operation with help and grants from the Prov and Fed. This is some of the most pristine land in Ontario as far as location goes. Possibly some of the best land in Canada if it was clean. Hub of the Great Lakes! It would take generations to clean it out. We'd have stable jobs for decades, acres of prime land, no more pollution. A new beginning.

YIKES...what are you smoking ??

Mice Elf
01-20-2016, 08:11 PM
I understand your reaction to something abstract, but no, not what do I care. Why so hostile? Just about everyone in this town is reliant on the company (part of the problem). I care plenty. I'm not saying shut it off today. Let the next buyer buy it. And when the next round of mass layoffs and bankruptcy happens we can have something to act on.

What I'm proposing is not some knee jerk operation. Did you not catch my notion of more and better jobs as a result of cleaning up the property? Are you saying that notion is far fetched or not possible? Do you suppose things are going to get better and reach a point where the mill genuinely and consistently supports this city?

Barry Morris
01-20-2016, 09:19 PM
Mice, you make a good point.

But people are too afraid of change.

Employment is one quarter of what it was in it's heyday at the plant. I have to wonder what is the support to the community outside that, and what other sales numbers REALLY are.

IMHO
01-20-2016, 10:15 PM
I would suspect the hospital and the school boards employ more workers than Essar.

Anapeg
01-21-2016, 11:06 AM
I would think all the soil the plant sits on to be contaminated. Where to dump it and where to get decent soil to replace it? Who gets to fund that? This would run into the many, many millions of dollars, possibly not wrong to use billions for this task. Perhaps Canada ought to start fund companies contribute to from their profits to ensure monies are in place to restore the land they decimate so as to eliminate the cost to taxpayers for repairs they evade?

Mice Elf
01-21-2016, 02:34 PM
Anapeg, those questions would be some of the foremost among many if serious consideration were given to the project. In short, industrial land reclamation is an International industry. Soil is often decontaminated where it sits. People walk around all day on the site now. Eat sleep and lord knows what else all day long. How bad can it be? And should we continue to make it worse?

Property values go up in the surrounding area as soon the project is green lighted. The air gets better. The cancer rates go down. The capacity to lure and keep good people in the city goes up when the pollution, rampant unemployment and big eye sore goes away. Huge chunk of primo land for whatever floats our boat. Liberals love economic development and infrastructure. I think this is both and sustainable development to boot.

The money is a big deal but in the long run, and with a good mission and vision I think the benefits would outweigh the costs. Innovations in any industry often come about while tackling the big problems. With all the jobs and time it would take there'd be a good cushion to reposition the cities economic driver.

blueboy
01-21-2016, 06:14 PM
OMG real idiot

Hans
01-21-2016, 06:30 PM
I understand your reaction to something abstract, but no, not what do I care. Why so hostile? Just about everyone in this town is reliant on the company (part of the problem). I care plenty. I'm not saying shut it off today. Let the next buyer buy it. And when the next round of mass layoffs and bankruptcy happens we can have something to act on.

What I'm proposing is not some knee jerk operation. Did you not catch my notion of more and better jobs as a result of cleaning up the property? Are you saying that notion is far fetched or not possible? Do you suppose things are going to get better and reach a point where the mill genuinely and consistently supports this city?

How are you planning on creating more and better jobs as a result of cleaning up the property?

riggs
01-21-2016, 10:36 PM
I understand your reaction to something abstract, but no, not what do I care. Why so hostile? Just about everyone in this town is reliant on the company (part of the problem). I care plenty. I'm not saying shut it off today. Let the next buyer buy it. And when the next round of mass layoffs and bankruptcy happens we can have something to act on.

What I'm proposing is not some knee jerk operation. Did you not catch my notion of more and better jobs as a result of cleaning up the property? Are you saying that notion is far fetched or not possible? Do you suppose things are going to get better and reach a point where the mill genuinely and consistently supports this city?

How many decades will the property sit idle before this massive clean up you suggest? Secondly, who will pay for it? And no, it will not be Essar or the government.

Ladywolf 1
01-22-2016, 12:38 AM
Did it ever occur to anyone else, that it is once again a contract year ? "The wolf may not be baying at the door, just make it sound like it is." Been a wife of an employee for over 35 yrs. We'll see what happens. Been down this road toooooo many times.

Mice Elf
01-22-2016, 12:40 AM
Nice. Sorry. Never mind.

Ladywolf 1
01-22-2016, 12:46 AM
Nice. Sorry. Never mind.

Was it something I said? I didn't even have my claws out. lol

Mice Elf
01-22-2016, 12:50 AM
No worries Ladywolf.

lynys
01-22-2016, 01:12 PM
Did it ever occur to anyone else, that it is once again a contract year ? "The wolf may not be baying at the door, just make it sound like it is." Been a wife of an employee for over 35 yrs. We'll see what happens. Been down this road toooooo many times.

Contract year = "We don't want to pay the employees more, so let's play up how much we are 'losing'."

I remember hearing this time and again in the almost 36 years I've put in. ;)

riggs
01-22-2016, 01:56 PM
Did it ever occur to anyone else, that it is once again a contract year ? "The wolf may not be baying at the door, just make it sound like it is." Been a wife of an employee for over 35 yrs. We'll see what happens. Been down this road toooooo many times.

Have you not been reading what has been happening to the steel industry world wide (since China became a major player)? Have you not read how many mills are now idle or have severely cut production levels? After you educate yourself on this as well as cost per ton vs. selling price (created by excess) you'll see most have been selling their products at a loss/razor margins for the better part of a year. The steel industry has never really recovered from the 08/09 market. Add to the fact that China alone can meet all the demands for North America, our governments painfully slow process to rule on dumping as well as allowing the surplus to dry up and you have a formula for disaster.

I agree with your husband that this was a ploy in the past, but our debt load, up coming critical capital expenditures and minimal assets in the face of an industry that continually over produces is not going to have a fairy tale ending for all.

Anapeg
01-22-2016, 02:37 PM
Anapeg, those questions would be some of the foremost among many if serious consideration were given to the project. In short, industrial land reclamation is an International industry. The soil is often decontaminated where it sits. People walk around all day on the site now. Eat sleep and lord knows what else all day long. How bad can it be? And should we continue to make it worse?

Property values go up in the surrounding area as soon the project is green-lighted. The air gets better. The cancer rates go down. The capacity to lure and keep good people in the city goes up when the pollution, rampant unemployment and big eye sore goes away. A Huge chunk of prime land for whatever floats our boat. Liberals love economic development and infrastructure. I think this is both and sustainable development to boot.

The money is a big deal but in the long run, and with a good mission and vision I think the benefits would outweigh the costs. Innovations in any industry often come about while tackling the big problems. With all the jobs and time it would take there'd be a good cushion to reposition the cities economic driver.

I just spoke with an individual who said a few years ago this task was estimated to cost 4 billion dollars. Not a lot of people looking to put up a $300,000.00 home next to a vacant wasteland. I may be wrong but I can't imagine any government spending 4+ billion to fix the land in a community of 70 some odd thousand.

Mice Elf
01-22-2016, 02:39 PM
OMG real idiot

Hey blueboy. Did you get my pm? My sent items folder says you didn't.

Mice Elf
01-22-2016, 02:42 PM
I just spoke with an individual who said a few years ago this task was estimated to cost 4 billion dollars. Not a lot of people looking to put up a $300,000.00 home next to a vacant wasteland. I may be wrong but I can't imagine any government spending 4+ billion to fix the land in a community of 70 some odd thousand.

Nice. Any chance you can ask that person where and when this estimate is from. I couldn't find much in that regard.

Mice Elf
01-22-2016, 02:54 PM
Hans and riggs those are real concerns and hard questions. It seems from your tone(s) there's also some sarcasm and rhetorical questioning type stuff too. Clearly those are not answered on the first day of any meeting for any venture, and certainly not by me. What if I told you, this is not an original idea..? This has been done in ways that suit the geography and demography of other old mill locations and even steel towns. Pittsburgh ain't what she used to be. Hamilton neither. There unemployment rates are also much much lower than ours. And certainly going to much stabler than ours for many many years if we continue to dabble solely in steel.

Anapeg
01-22-2016, 02:58 PM
Nice. Any chance you can ask that person where and when this estimate is from. I couldn't find much in that regard.

Tom says it was the last time Algoma was in trouble, so, 08/09? He then went on to point out Petosky saying the land thereabouts was contaminated and now is all reclaimed. I have checked nothing simply passing hearsay around.

Mice Elf
01-22-2016, 03:38 PM
Hans and riggs those are real concerns and hard questions. It seems from your tone(s) there's also some sarcasm and rhetorical questioning type stuff too. Clearly those are not answered on the first day of any meeting for any venture, and certainly not by me. What if I told you, this is not an original idea..? This has been done in ways that suit the geography and demography of other old mill locations and even steel towns. Pittsburgh ain't what she used to be. Hamilton neither. There unemployment rates are also much much lower than ours. And certainly going to much stabler than ours for many many years if we continue to dabble solely in steel.

In this town we're very isolated. Nothing for hours. Other places have surrounding areas and/or other economic drivers that we don't have. We just sit here captive to the plant. If we decide to move on from that and expand our industry and slowly let steel die that's cool too. But we could also grab hold of the project and as a city, be the major player in it all. Go for broke, take our land back. Not to mention our air and water. My point is, that project in and of itself is job creation, economic dev, sustainable dev so on and so on. Every effort in that direction puts us further away from this...again.

riggs
01-22-2016, 05:09 PM
Investment needs to be generated with a substantial return. Have you considered what type of business plan would be needed to draw in that kind of investment? Keeping in mind this city has been on the decline for a few decades because of the lack of growth.

RWGR
01-22-2016, 05:53 PM
What the Soo and its steel mill are going through right now seems like a micro-version of what Michigan went through with the auto industry the last decade.

The inability / incapability to change and diversify spells trouble for some time to come.

Mice Elf
01-22-2016, 06:31 PM
Investment needs to be generated with a substantial return. Have you considered what type of business plan would be needed to draw in that kind of investment? Keeping in mind this city has been on the decline for a few decades because of the lack of growth.

It's a big ordeal and would likely need a dedicated and expensive crew just to get going. The political wherewithal to even look would be hard enough to garner. As you can see it's the kind of idea that makes people ornery.

Feasibility study or cost benefit analysis first? If it's feasible then a business plan to formulate a business plan that leads to a plan of... business? I don't know how it all goes down but it would likely be a pretty fluid plan as something of this scale doesn't go as planned. And please know that the gov't's can and do help to fund this type of endeavour. To the tune of billions even over a period of changing gov't's.

http://www.infrastructure.gc.ca/prog/index-eng.html

I'm already convinced the lack of growth is because of the steel plant. Change is growth, no? This type of change could certainly be called development. And 'development' is the sales pitch and buzzword for all countries or regions that aren't on board with, or are struggling with, the capitalist approach. We are presently underdeveloped.

The Voice
01-22-2016, 10:20 PM
It's a big ordeal and would likely need a dedicated and expensive crew just to get going. The political wherewithal to even look would be hard enough to garner. As you can see it's the kind of idea that makes people ornery.

Feasibility study or cost benefit analysis first? If it's feasible then a business plan to formulate a business plan that leads to a plan of... business? I don't know how it all goes down but it would likely be a pretty fluid plan as something of this scale doesn't go as planned. And please know that the gov't's can and do help to fund this type of endeavour. To the tune of billions even over a period of changing gov't's.

http://www.infrastructure.gc.ca/prog/index-eng.html

I'm already convinced the lack of growth is because of the steel plant. Change is growth, no? This type of change could certainly be called development. And 'development' is the sales pitch and buzzword for all countries or regions that aren't on board with, or are struggling with, the capitalist approach. We are presently underdeveloped.


Interesting???

Member since 2009 and 12 posts???


:):):)

The Voice
01-22-2016, 10:23 PM
The Steel Plant will be here long after most of us are dead.

So will the Borealis Forest.


;)


IMO!!!

Mice Elf
01-22-2016, 10:51 PM
Interesting???

Member since 2009 and 12 posts???


:):):)

What does that imply to you?

Either way, just a guy with an idea that needed flushing out. If you'd like to pm me Ill give you all my specs and we can meet for coffee. I'm sure we know lots of ppl in common in this town.

riggs
01-23-2016, 12:44 AM
It's a big ordeal and would likely need a dedicated and expensive crew just to get going. The political wherewithal to even look would be hard enough to garner. As you can see it's the kind of idea that makes people ornery.

Feasibility study or cost benefit analysis first? If it's feasible then a business plan to formulate a business plan that leads to a plan of... business? I don't know how it all goes down but it would likely be a pretty fluid plan as something of this scale doesn't go as planned. And please know that the gov't's can and do help to fund this type of endeavour. To the tune of billions even over a period of changing gov't's.

http://www.infrastructure.gc.ca/prog/index-eng.html

I'm already convinced the lack of growth is because of the steel plant. Change is growth, no? This type of change could certainly be called development. And 'development' is the sales pitch and buzzword for all countries or regions that aren't on board with, or are struggling with, the capitalist approach. We are presently underdeveloped.

I believe a business idea will have to be in place long before the feasibility study. I would assume those investing would need to know why the project can't be constructed elsewhere thus elimination billions in clean up costs. Don't get me wrong, I'm just as tired as most living in a one horse town and would like to see some economic diversity. I just don't understand why it hasn't happen sooner and how the death of the steel industry will create new development?

Hans
01-23-2016, 03:25 AM
Have you not been reading what has been happening to the steel industry world wide (since China became a major player)? Have you not read how many mills are now idle or have severely cut production levels? After you educate yourself on this as well as cost per ton vs. selling price (created by excess) you'll see most have been selling their products at a loss/razor margins for the better part of a year. The steel industry has never really recovered from the 08/09 market. Add to the fact that China alone can meet all the demands for North America, our governments painfully slow process to rule on dumping as well as allowing the surplus to dry up and you have a formula for disaster.

I agree with your husband that this was a ploy in the past, but our debt load, up coming critical capital expenditures and minimal assets in the face of an industry that continually over produces is not going to have a fairy tale ending for all.

It is not really China's fault. It is the fault of corporations trying to set up any type of legal structure they can to maximize revenue and lower cost.
This includes outsourcing, moving production facilities to low wage countries, setting up a spiderweb of holding corporations to avoid taxes, cartel forming, you name it.

All large companies are doing the same things, in the name of profit. It is killing production and other jobs in developed countries.

Bluesky
01-23-2016, 10:23 AM
Someone please tell me, why is there no law in place that preserve pension contributions? The news today is that retirees from Essar are not getting their pension cheques? This is a major injustice.

Barry Morris
01-23-2016, 10:41 AM
Someone please tell me, why is there no law in place that preserve pension contributions? The news today is that retirees from Essar are not getting their pension cheques? This is a major injustice.

Not quite.

"Grant says there will be no immediate effect on pensions unless the company goes into bankruptcy."

riggs
01-23-2016, 10:57 AM
It is not really China's fault. It is the fault of corporations trying to set up any type of legal structure they can to maximize revenue and lower cost.
This includes outsourcing, moving production facilities to low wage countries, setting up a spiderweb of holding corporations to avoid taxes, cartel forming, you name it.

All large companies are doing the same things, in the name of profit. It is killing production and other jobs in developed countries.

My only point with China was their production capabilities. They alone can supply the needs of the North American market...over supply vs demand

Anapeg
01-23-2016, 11:55 AM
Go for broke, take our land back. Not to mention our air and water. My point is, that project in and of itself is job creation, economic dev, sustainable dev so on and so on. Every effort in that direction puts us further away from this...again.

You sincerely believe this venture will replace the 2000 jobs paying $60,000.00 a year and up? I would have to disagree on this point. Then we have to consider the number of associated jobs lost, most if not all paying decent living wages. How many supporting companies will suffer from the loss of the plants business? How many of those will have to lay off people and/or close their doors? You have yet to address who will pick up the tab. We know it will not be Essar, Algoma, the City, nor any other form of government so that leaves us, the tired, overburdened taxpayer.

riggs
01-23-2016, 12:54 PM
Someone please tell me, why is there no law in place that preserve pension contributions? The news today is that retirees from Essar are not getting their pension cheques? This is a major injustice.

https://www.sootoday.com/local-news/essar-steel-algoma-retirees-denied-millions-in-pension-payments-188543

riggs
01-23-2016, 01:07 PM
You sincerely believe this venture will replace the 2000 jobs paying $60,000.00 a year and up? I would have to disagree on this point. Then we have to consider the number of associated jobs lost, most if not all paying decent living wages. How many supporting companies will suffer from the loss of the plants business? How many of those will have to lay off people and/or close their doors? You have yet to address who will pick up the tab. We know it will not be Essar, Algoma, the City, nor any other form of government so that leaves us, the tired, overburdened taxpayer.

From the above article:

"Algoma is Sault Ste. Marie's largest employer, directly employing nearly 3,000 people. Adding household members and retirees, approximately 54,000 people in Sault Ste. Marie (or 69 percent of the city's total population of approximately 78,000) directly or indirectly depend on Algoma,"

Anapeg
01-23-2016, 01:15 PM
From the above article:

"Algoma is Sault Ste. Marie's largest employer, directly employing nearly 3,000 people. Adding household members and retirees, approximately 54,000 people in Sault Ste. Marie (or 69 percent of the city's total population of approximately 78,000) directly or indirectly depend on Algoma,"

Thanks, Riggs, this serves to bolster my point nicely.

Mice Elf
01-23-2016, 03:31 PM
You sincerely believe this venture will replace the 2000 jobs paying $60,000.00 a year and up? I would have to disagree on this point. Then we have to consider the number of associated jobs lost, most if not all paying decent living wages. How many supporting companies will suffer from the loss of the plants business? How many of those will have to lay off people and/or close their doors? You have yet to address who will pick up the tab. We know it will not be Essar, Algoma, the City, nor any other form of government so that leaves us, the tired, overburdened taxpayer.

Letís say for instance those jobs actually existed today. I sincerely believe that from the point of investigation to the point of fruition, and with an eye on diversifying our business/manufacturing portfolio as we go, every one of those jobs is replaceable. Again, we have 1600 acres of potentially very useful land. Understand the magnitude of getting from what it is today, to one of those dreamy drawings or large scale models. The plan focuses on the rebuild and property potential in order to finance the tear down and reclamation. Then you consider the next 100+ years from the perspective of those drawings and models and plans, 4 billion is not a lot. Have a look at the link in an earlier post to the feds govít services page. There is substantial money to drive investment, develop the economy and cushion the the blow. They design grants around this very predicament.

To me, the question of spinoff and supporting companies becomes value-added to this long term process. Itís a natural and good byproduct of the overall vision and mission. Companies would have to root here for a long time and likely make innovations and expand their portfolios in the process. Chances are these spinoff companies would also get paid for their products and services, too.

Layoffs and closed doors are a regular thing here. Wouldn't it be nice to take charge of that problem by at least trying to create new doors to open after the **** goes down? Get some of that precious taxpayer money working for us now? Instead of giving to companies whoís only mission is profit, over and over again.

I may be completely wrong in the thought that we are very underdeveloped and presently avoiding the shot in the arm and not seeing the shot in the head. Maybe sheís gonna get an upgrade and some new machines to minimize the human factor, and successfully go on another 50 - 100 years. No more ups and downs, no more conglomerates raping pensions and making money on the losses. In which case Im sorry i wasted our time. But Iíve seen too much over the years, and it doesnít seem likely.

Mice Elf
01-23-2016, 05:50 PM
From the above article:

"Algoma is Sault Ste. Marie's largest employer, directly employing nearly 3,000 people. Adding household members and retirees, approximately 54,000 people in Sault Ste. Marie (or 69 percent of the city's total population of approximately 78,000) directly or indirectly depend on Algoma,"

We look even more captive and doomed to fail when I look at that fact. What a shame.

Hans
01-23-2016, 09:45 PM
My only point with China was their production capabilities. They alone can supply the needs of the North American market...over supply vs demand

But the thing, they do not supply us. North American companies use Chinese labor to produce cheap goods, then import them back into North America for extra profit.
It is that mentality that is killing us.

riggs
01-23-2016, 10:16 PM
But the thing, they do not supply us. North American companies use Chinese labor to produce cheap goods, then import them back into North America for extra profit.
It is that mentality that is killing us.

I've read about the "Walmart Effect" and you are correct. That mentality is killing us. I understand the Chinese don't usually supply the North American market legally. But when the world market softens, they dump their subsidized products into the more lucrative North American market long enough to create havoc.

riggs
01-23-2016, 10:18 PM
We look even more captive and doomed to fail when I look at that fact. What a shame.

It looks as though we've painted ourselves into a corner.

Anapeg
01-23-2016, 11:40 PM
We look even more captive and doomed to fail when I look at that fact. What a shame.

This, my dear mouse was the point I was unable to get across. One thousand people with rakes, John Deere bulldozers and shovels will not now, not ever replace the plant. As the steel plant goes, so goes our fair city. One, inextricably linked to the other. With the demise of Weyerhaeuser and the paper mill, we lost also our woodlands sector. We have no safe base to turn to that will with certainty and immediacy replace those positions. The banks, finance companies, family and friends owed monies will not wait for any lengthy transitions. First make the Sault a place open and willing to support new business, actively try attracting factories and large business with real solid incentives. Then close the plant and make it all nice and pretty on the new companies tax dollar.

Mice Elf
01-24-2016, 03:14 AM
This, my dear mouse was the point I was unable to get across. One thousand people with rakes, John Deere bulldozers and shovels will not now, not ever replace the plant. As the steel plant goes, so goes our fair city. One, inextricably linked to the other. With the demise of Weyerhaeuser and the paper mill, we lost also our woodlands sector. We have no safe base to turn to that will with certainty and immediacy replace those positions. The banks, finance companies, family and friends owed monies will not wait for any lengthy transitions. First make the Sault a place open and willing to support new business, actively try attracting factories and large business with real solid incentives. Then close the plant and make it all nice and pretty on the new companies tax dollar.

What better way to say youíre open for business? But anyhow, I think Iíve managed some coherent thought and good information in previous posts. I really had no idea you were reading this as a bunch of do-gooders running around with shovels trying to make a go of it. My bad. Not sure youíre following me really. Either way, I guess youíre altogether out on this idea. Sorry for the misunderstanding my..sweet giraffeÖ?

Anapeg
01-24-2016, 11:47 AM
What better way to say you’re open for business? But anyhow, I think I’ve managed some coherent thought and good information in previous posts. I really had no idea you were reading this as a bunch of do-gooders running around with shovels trying to make a go of it. My bad. Not sure you’re following me really. Either way, I guess you’re altogether out on this idea. Sorry for the misunderstanding my..sweet giraffe…?

Close, winged unicorn holding no connotation of myself rather a silly sentimental attachment with my Mom.

IMHO
01-24-2016, 04:01 PM
We better find a way to keep essar running. There are no lineups of companies ready to set up shop in this city. The entire Canadian economy is in free fall and Mr. Trudeau is more concerned about bringing in thousands of refugees to fill jobs that are not there. Have we lost all sense of what is a priority?

Hans
01-24-2016, 05:11 PM
If I am not mistaken this city turned down a car plant some years ago.
I think this city should get its priorities right, not the government.

Barry Morris
01-24-2016, 05:38 PM
If I am not mistaken this city turned down a car plant some years ago.
....

You are mistaken.

A car plant can have hundreds of peripheral industries supporting it.

That along with the "just in time" delivery setup, means that a small city hundreds of miles from major centres has very little chance of getting a car plant.

Mice Elf
01-24-2016, 05:58 PM
You are mistaken.

A car plant can have hundreds of peripheral industries supporting it.

That along with the "just in time" delivery setup, means that a small city hundreds of miles from major centres has very little chance of getting a car plant.

Is anywhere in North America getting a car plant anytime soon? I think things are bleak on that front as well eh.

Hans
01-24-2016, 06:11 PM
What was the industry that was turned down by residents in that area several years ago?
I could have sworn it was a car plant of some sorts.

IMHO
01-24-2016, 06:14 PM
if i am not mistaken this city turned down a car plant some years ago.
I think this city should get its priorities right, not the government.

that is one of those urban myths that has been around for years.

IMHO
01-24-2016, 06:15 PM
With vehicles turning to ALUMINUM.(i.e.. Ford f150 )...the future of needed steel is bleak at best.

Hans
01-24-2016, 06:20 PM
that is one of those urban myths that has been around for years.

Maybe it was this? http://ontario-wind-resistance.org/2011/01/24/soar-vows-to-fight-algoma-projects/

riggs
01-24-2016, 06:30 PM
If I am not mistaken this city turned down a car plant some years ago.
I think this city should get its priorities right, not the government.

That was Honda, Hans. They were looking for a location in the early 80's which they eventually built in 1986 in Alliston Ontario. If I recall correctly, they were looking in the area of Second line and Airport rd. I remember the city was dead set against offering any incentives to entice the manufacturer. It was speculated at the time that Algoma played a roll in this decision.

IMHO
01-24-2016, 07:50 PM
That was Honda, Hans. They were looking for a location in the early 80's which they eventually built in 1986 in Alliston Ontario. If I recall correctly, they were looking in the area of Second line and Airport rd. I remember the city was dead set against offering any incentives to entice the manufacturer. It was speculated at the time that Algoma played a roll in this decision.

Why would Algoma complain?,,,they could supply the steel. I suspect their worry wold be losing employees to the car company.

riggs
01-24-2016, 09:58 PM
Why would Algoma complain?,,,they could supply the steel. I suspect their worry wold be losing employees to the car company.

Unless you had too many years invested, I can't think of many who would hesitate to move to a cleaner, higher paying job that offered work incentives and bonuses not to mention a great price on your next ride...

Anapeg
01-24-2016, 11:20 PM
You are mistaken.

A car plant can have hundreds of peripheral industries supporting it.

That along with the "just in time" delivery setup, means that a small city hundreds of miles from major centres has very little chance of getting a car plant.

He is not completely 'mistaken' sir. I remember the time well as well as the fact Algoma squashed the deal as they wanted first call on the lions share of the employment pool. As to the possibility, just on time was not even dreamt of then. They looked at land in the east end as the rail line was right there for shipping the finished product and receiving raw materials.

IMHO
01-26-2016, 06:03 PM
People keep suggesting that council and the EDC should be out wooing companies to set up shop in our city. Those opportunities have passed. The entire economy is in a withdrawal mode. Companies are not looking to expand, They surely have better locations than SSM to set up shop. They have surely heard how difficult our council has made it to set up shop here. Our council cannot even make a decision on getting rid of a stop light without forming a committee. The NIMBY is very pervasive in this city and stifles growth. Sorry...but we missed the boat...too little too late.

blueboy
01-26-2016, 06:07 PM
A car plant ! idiot

Anapeg
01-26-2016, 07:28 PM
A car plant ! idiot

To whom are you speaking?

IMHO
01-26-2016, 07:37 PM
To whom are you speaking?

I have to assume it is me...the comments came right after my posting...which I still stand by....despite juvenile name calling.

Barry Morris
01-26-2016, 09:53 PM
I have to assume it is me...the comments came right after my posting...which I still stand by....despite juvenile name calling.

I have to ignore a poster with 204 posts in seven years.

IMHO
01-26-2016, 10:01 PM
i have to ignore a poster with 204 posts in seven years.

why is that ??

Barry Morris
01-26-2016, 10:42 PM
why is that ??

I prefer folks who engage a bit, and don't use insults.

IMHO
01-26-2016, 10:48 PM
I prefer folks who engage a bit, and don't use insults.

yes.....with insults you have to consider the source.