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View Full Version : Baker takes a courageous stand



Bluesky
02-04-2016, 07:22 AM
https://www.facebook.com/christianinstitute/videos/10154034168226802/


Peter Tatchell, the veteran gay rights campaigner, emerged as a surprise supporter for the McArthurs' appeal.
He said that, while he totally disagreed with their views on gay marriage, it is a basic “infringement of freedom” to force people to promote ideas to which they conscientiously object.

Anapeg
02-04-2016, 03:22 PM
Canada and the U.S. pass legislation making your views illegal. Quebec passes legislation forcing people to speak a certain way and forces businesses to use a certain language on signs. we are daily told how to behave, and limits are put on what we say. Why not be forced to support something you fundamentally object to? Being "free" is a quaint thought but in reality, we have little to no freedoms.

RWGR
02-04-2016, 05:42 PM
Canada and the U.S. pass legislation making your views illegal. Quebec passes legislation forcing people to speak a certain way and forces businesses to use a certain language on signs. we are daily told how to behave, and limits are put on what we say. Why not be forced to support something you fundamentally object to? Being "free" is a quaint thought but in reality, we have little to no freedoms.

All depends what your definition of "freedom" is.

Is it the ability to do whatever you want? Or the ability to do what's right?

Anapeg
02-04-2016, 07:26 PM
All depends on what your definition of "freedom" is.

Is it the ability to do whatever you want? Or the ability to do what's right?

What's right by who's standards? I have acquaintances on YouTube from the old Russian block. They see our system as not free at all. We have many laws in place that limit what we can do or say. I am not saying they are right, I am saying they have a case, if only in their eyes.
So, with freedoms being subjective why not legislate Ministers and Priests do as they are told. Because of a higher calling? Is that not subjective as well? Governments have treated churches as sacrosanct for millennia, even though there was supposedly a distinct separation of the two. Now the distinction is real and becoming visible to all and distasteful as they may be laws placing the same moral restrictions on the church as they have done over the electorate for some time now.
For how many hundreds of years was the flow of power in the opposite direction with the churches holding sway, o'er the governments? Christians are comfortable overlooking that tidbit it would seem. If the government has the right to legislate how I behave toward certain peoples, why not the church? They are after all, as you remind people, run by fallible humans subject to all our foibles.

Barry Morris
02-04-2016, 07:36 PM
Thought police is the term you seek.

Anapeg
02-04-2016, 08:15 PM
Thought police is the term you seek.

Very good. Very true.

Bluesky
02-04-2016, 09:43 PM
Freedom of conscience, religion and speech are particular kinds of freedoms that need to be carefully thought out.

But as has been often stated here before, where ever you legislate that all ideologies are equally valid, you cannot treat people as equal.

The baker balked at the IDEA that he was being asked to inscribe the cake with. Had they merely asked them to bake a cake, we would not be talking about it.

RWGR
02-05-2016, 09:22 AM
What's right by who's standards? .

I think we all can agree there are just basic things that are considered just and right, and those things cross borders, cultures, races, etc.

Anapeg
02-05-2016, 02:57 PM
I think we all can agree there are just basic things that are considered just and right, and those things cross borders, cultures, races, etc.

Not necessarily. Different cultures have differing taboos. When they relocate they arrive here with all their baggage, physical, moral, mental etc. Taking a life for instance. While for the most part we condemn taking a life yet in the Middle East a man can behead his child for embarrassing the family. Simply crossing a border will never expunge the past, they will hold these thoughts through to death. What you and I see as repugnant is, in some culture quite normal and vice versa.

RWGR
02-06-2016, 08:48 AM
Killing is wrong.

Helping someone in need is right.

Tell me those are not universal values.

Anapeg
02-06-2016, 09:32 AM
Killing is wrong.

Helping someone in need is right.

Tell me those are not universal values.

Did I not in post 9 give just such an example? With honour killings being legal and carried out with some regularity killing is not universally wrong. As for helping to be right, I give you the Jehovah's witnesses. I witness a woman with a walker coming out of their meeting house fall, all behind her hurriedly scurried away all the while averting their eyes. Now, having written this, I am not sure if this is a law in their religion or there were simply a lot of flaky people at meeting that day.

Bluesky
02-06-2016, 02:46 PM
With honour killings being legal and carried out with some regularity

CAn you name me a country where honour killing is legally sanctioned?