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Hans
02-17-2016, 08:23 PM
A federal judge ordered Apple to comply with the FBI’s request for technical assistance in the recovery of data from the San Bernardino gunman’s iPhone 5C. The FBI wants Apple to create a custom backdoored firmware for the iPhone 5C that will disable some security features such as the PIN rate limiters and the feature that auto-erases after 10 failed attempts. Then, it wants Apple to push that update to certain phones so the FBI can brute-force them in minutes or hours. This sort of request has both intended (by the FBI) and unintended consequences.

The FBI used the All Writs Act of 1789 to convince a federal judge to compel Apple to unlock an iPhone 5C. If the request stands, it could create a major precedent for how the FBI will deal with technology companies from now on.

http://www.tomshardware.com/news/apple-fbi-iphone-backdoor-consequences,31218.html

Interesting, very interesting.

Anapeg
02-17-2016, 10:49 PM
Yes, very interesting.

Very good for apple if they succeed in their efforts to resist.

Very bad for liberty if they fail.

Liberty is but a quaint old wives tale we tell ourselves to help us sleep. The "freedoms" we enjoy are at the benevolence of government and big business. Try crossing either and see just where your freedoms end. Monsanto owns more governments and government officials than you and I can fathom. Money talks, everything else walks.

RWGR
02-18-2016, 09:16 AM
Yes, very interesting.

Very good for apple if they succeed in their efforts to resist.

Very bad for liberty if they fail.

If you mow down multiple people with a sub-machine gun, umm, you lose your liberty.

Bluesky
02-18-2016, 09:45 AM
Yes, very interesting.

Very good for apple if they succeed in their efforts to resist.

Very bad for liberty if they fail.

Liberty for whom? Apple is so proprietary with its product that I stay away from them. I want the freedom to repair my Iphone wherever I choose (after warranty is expired) without them bricking my phone.

Barry Morris
02-18-2016, 10:25 AM
The USA has quite a history of both extreme protection of business property, AND stealing or giving those rights away.

RWGR
02-18-2016, 10:28 AM
Source? Link?

Barry Morris
02-18-2016, 10:36 AM
Source? Link?

Got a source, several of them right here in the house. Sewing machines, identical to the Singer models, given to Japan after the war, without any compensation for patents, to help them rebuild, then the machines sold under various names at Sears, Wards and others.

Ripped off an american company.

RWGR
02-18-2016, 10:37 AM
Anecdotal evidence with no basis in reality.

White flag accepted.

Barry caught in a lie, # 12,877

Barry Morris
02-18-2016, 10:40 AM
Anecdotal evidence with no basis in reality.

White flag accepted.

Barry caught in a lie, # 12,877

I suppose we could drop one of the japanese models on your foot as proof.

But once again, without any research on your own, you attack.

Your reasons become so obvious sometimes.

RWGR
02-18-2016, 10:41 AM
You gave me one white flag already, don't need another one

Barry Morris
02-18-2016, 11:31 AM
Just for interest sake.

http://www.wintersonnenwende.com/scriptorium/english/archives/articles/patents.html

"...much of America's scientific lead came from looting German patents by the ton, both in World War I and far more so after World War II."

Like many of your posts, just the usual business.

RWGR
02-18-2016, 11:37 AM
That does not prove your assertion in any way, shape, or form. You claim it was something that was done on a regular basis. Obviously it was not.

Just another BM lie!

Barry Morris
02-18-2016, 11:39 AM
"Virtually no one knows that in Wright-Patterson Field in Ohio, in the Library of Congress and in the Department of Commerce in Washington, a "mother lode" of 1,500 tons of German patents and research papers were being mined furiously after the war. One gloating Washington bureaucrat called it "the greatest single source of this type of material in the world, the first orderly exploitation of an entire country's brain power."

Oh really??? :) :) :)

Seems pretty "regular" to me!!!

RWGR
02-18-2016, 11:41 AM
You're right, we should have let the Nazis keep them!!

So, now we know BM is a fan of: infanticide, the Iranian theocracy, and Nazis!! :) :) :0

The Chronic Liar
02-18-2016, 11:42 AM
Just for interest sake.

http://www.wintersonnenwende.com/scriptorium/english/archives/articles/patents.html

"...much of America's scientific lead came from looting German patents by the ton, both in World War I and far more so after World War II."

Like many of your posts, just the usual business.

While I don't see the point of the link, it did raise a good point and an often overlooked travesty...

" Equally, they receive zero credit for baking the first quiche, which in Lorraine and Rhinelander dialects ("Kiisch") simply means "kitchen leftovers baked into a pie."

Those Germans have it rough.

The Chronic Liar
02-18-2016, 11:45 AM
Does anyone know how terrible it must feel to say " wow there are two waffles left, Ill eat those tomorrow" only to have someone steal that idea.

RWGR
02-18-2016, 11:49 AM
LOL, the poor boy is really struggling today

The Chronic Liar
02-18-2016, 11:51 AM
LOL, the poor boy is really struggling today

The best part is that it talks about revolutionary ideas getting stolen and then says 'equally'.... they got their quiche invention stolen.

RWGR
02-18-2016, 11:53 AM
The best part is that it talks about revolutionary ideas getting stolen and then says 'equally'.... they got their quiche invention stolen.

Shhhh, don't provide context. Context to a lie is like garlic to a vampire.

RWGR
02-18-2016, 11:54 AM
From BM's link:


And because Germany was so devastated after World War II, there has been a brain drain ever since of the top young German scientists - to Massachusetts and California for computers and genetics and to greater Los Angeles, Houston and Cape Canaveral for aerospace. As one German scientist remarked: "Since the war, we have not had the financing capabilities for basic research for the long-term future. That kind of serious money only the Americans have. In Germany, and in Japan, also, we do applied and clinical research for immediate applications. But to be on the cutting edge, the money and the positions are now in America and we have to go there."

RWGR
02-18-2016, 11:58 AM
This is how BM's article ends:

But the historical blackout continues. The government appears to be willing to hint that "aliens" from outer space are behind all this high tech.

http://stateofthenation2012.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/05/conspiracy-theory.jpg

The Chronic Liar
02-18-2016, 12:00 PM
From BM's link:


And because Germany was so devastated after World War II, there has been a brain drain ever since of the top young German scientists - to Massachusetts and California for computers and genetics and to greater Los Angeles, Houston and Cape Canaveral for aerospace. As one German scientist remarked: "Since the war, we have not had the financing capabilities for basic research for the long-term future. That kind of serious money only the Americans have. In Germany, and in Japan, also, we do applied and clinical research for immediate applications. But to be on the cutting edge, the money and the positions are now in America and we have to go there."

LOL i swear he Googles anti-american phrases and then pastes that section without reading it all.

RWGR
02-18-2016, 12:01 PM
Like his lies, he hopes no one looks past the first few sentences.




Did you know Sunday School teachers created education?

The Chronic Liar
02-18-2016, 12:08 PM
Who taught the first Sunday school teachers? Whoa chicken and egg.

RWGR
02-18-2016, 12:08 PM
Who tought the first Sunday school teachers? Whoa chicken and egg.

No one had to teach them, because they had nothing to teach: God favors dummies.

The Chronic Liar
02-18-2016, 12:12 PM
No one had to teach them, because they had nothing to teach: God favors dummies.

Well then how silly is this book?

http://t0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTEWvIUDqEWZiLz5vggzUbIXiDGc0N_C N7kzgJIXBB43Nu4gIAW

RWGR
02-18-2016, 01:57 PM
Funny, no more BM tracks in here ...

Barry Morris
02-18-2016, 02:01 PM
Once you prove your point to the discerning, there is no reason to go on. And on. And on.

Hans
02-19-2016, 08:44 PM
If you mow down multiple people with a sub-machine gun, umm, you lose your liberty.

That is a very slippery slope. Where would you draw the line?

Hans
02-19-2016, 08:47 PM
Liberty for whom? Apple is so proprietary with its product that I stay away from them. I want the freedom to repair my Iphone wherever I choose (after warranty is expired) without them bricking my phone.

This is not so much about bricking a phone. It is more about you and the data you put on your phone.
If it is safe, should that safety be bypassed on demand from law enforcement? Or should you have the expectation it stays secure at all times?

I prefer the latter.

Bluesky
02-19-2016, 11:18 PM
RWGR
If you mow down multiple people with a sub-machine gun, umm, you lose your liberty.

Hans
That is a very slippery slope. Where would you draw the line?

Umm, I reposted this just because it's a Hans classic.

Hans
02-20-2016, 12:35 AM
RWGR

Hans

Umm, I reposted this just because it's a Hans classic.

It is a valid question. Where do you draw the line? 3 people, 4, 5, 2, 1,27 ?

RWGR
02-20-2016, 11:47 AM
It's an individual issue. You have no right to freedoms guaranteed under the Constitution if you abuse other peoples freedoms.

There's a simple saying that sums it up over here: "my freedom ends where your's begins"

Bluesky
02-20-2016, 04:33 PM
It's an individual issue. You have no right to freedoms guaranteed under the Constitution if you abuse other peoples freedoms.

There's a simple saying that sums it up over here: "my freedom ends where your's begins"

Synonymous with "Your freedom to swing your fist ends where my nose begins."
Your version is so blah, RW.

Hans
02-20-2016, 09:20 PM
It's an individual issue. You have no right to freedoms guaranteed under the Constitution if you abuse other peoples freedoms.

There's a simple saying that sums it up over here: "my freedom ends where your's begins"

Slippery slope. The Constitution is guaranteed, regardless of the offence committed. It is what makes the US the US.

RWGR
02-23-2016, 04:51 PM
But at the same time the state needs to uphold the interests and right of the rest of its citizenry, even if that means looking into someone's iphone who, you know, killed multiple people in cold blood.

The Chronic Liar
02-23-2016, 05:33 PM
I haven't really been following this but why can't they search the one phone only?

Hans
02-23-2016, 10:12 PM
Because it is locked with a pass code. If you type in the wrong pass code 10 times the phone will wipe all data on it, in a way that such data cannot be recovered in any way, shape or form. It is a security feature of the phone.
The FBI wants from Apple a custom firmware that bypasses the pass code, so they can unlock the phone and get all the data of it.
Apple refuses to provide the firmware, because it could be used to unlock any other Iphone also and there is a potential it could fall into a hackers hand with far reaching consequences for Apple Iphone's in general and Apple's image as a trustworthy company.


A lot of this has to do with Apple Pay, a service that Apple is promoting to use a phone to pay bills rather than using a debit card. Samsung has a similar service, so has Google. They are all trying to get consumers to use this service rather than a debit/credit card.
I think it is a valid concern from Apple with regards to using a phone to pay bills. It would be a very bad thing to bypass security and it would be similar to a backdoor in your debit, Visa or Mastercard. Consumers would go ballistic if there are back doors in their credit cards that allows someone else to unlock and use their cards.
It would be a nightmare for banks worldwide.

Hans
02-23-2016, 10:15 PM
But at the same time the state needs to uphold the interests and right of the rest of its citizenry, even if that means looking into someone's iphone who, you know, killed multiple people in cold blood.

I disagree with that. The state has to find others way of obtaining this data. As a citizen you should have a certain level of guaranteed security.
See also my other posting above with some more background info.

RWGR
02-24-2016, 01:55 PM
I disagree with that. The state has to find others way of obtaining this data. As a citizen you should have a certain level of guaranteed security.
See also my other posting above with some more background info.

Will you at least agree with me that it is, at best, somewhat difficult to interrogate a dead guy?

Bluesky
02-24-2016, 02:59 PM
Will you at least agree with me that it is, at best, somewhat difficult to interrogate a dead guy?

I think one can always try.

The Chronic Liar
02-24-2016, 03:01 PM
Because it is locked with a pass code. If you type in the wrong pass code 10 times the phone will wipe all data on it, in a way that such data cannot be recovered in any way, shape or form. It is a security feature of the phone.
The FBI wants from Apple a custom firmware that bypasses the pass code, so they can unlock the phone and get all the data of it.
Apple refuses to provide the firmware, because it could be used to unlock any other Iphone also and there is a potential it could fall into a hackers hand with far reaching consequences for Apple Iphone's in general and Apple's image as a trustworthy company.


A lot of this has to do with Apple Pay, a service that Apple is promoting to use a phone to pay bills rather than using a debit card. Samsung has a similar service, so has Google. They are all trying to get consumers to use this service rather than a debit/credit card.
I think it is a valid concern from Apple with regards to using a phone to pay bills. It would be a very bad thing to bypass security and it would be similar to a backdoor in your debit, Visa or Mastercard. Consumers would go ballistic if there are back doors in their credit cards that allows someone else to unlock and use their cards.
It would be a nightmare for banks worldwide.

I have some friends with iphones. A good prank would be to try 10 passwords on their phone.

Barry Morris
02-24-2016, 06:57 PM
Will you at least agree with me that it is, at best, somewhat difficult to interrogate a dead guy?

What for?? The FBI doesn't want to know why anyway.

RWGR
02-24-2016, 07:34 PM
Oh, yippee, someone has been watching marathons of Hollywood conspiracy movies.

That always leads to such mature and cerebral comments.

Hans
02-24-2016, 08:37 PM
Will you at least agree with me that it is, at best, somewhat difficult to interrogate a dead guy?

I do, but there are many other ways to obtain information in this specific case.
Ask yourself, what is so important about the data on this phone that is going to make a difference to this case? What are they hoping to find?

RWGR
02-25-2016, 01:47 PM
I do, but there are many other ways to obtain information in this specific case.
Ask yourself, what is so important about the data on this phone that is going to make a difference to this case? What are they hoping to find?

motive, people he contacted

Hans
02-25-2016, 07:20 PM
I think the motive was clear from day one: terrorism.
As for people he contacted: I am sure there are multiple other ways to retrieve that information.