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Bluesky
04-05-2016, 07:44 AM
Will you take Time magazine seriously?

http://time.com/magazine/

This weekís TIME magazine features a cover story on a new initiative against Internet pornography. These anti-porn activists, though, arenít the caricatured pursed-lip moralists. They are instead young men who say that pornography has compromised their ability to function sexually in real life.

Barry Morris
04-05-2016, 08:59 AM
Too bad they rarely learn about it at home or church.

The Chronic Liar
04-05-2016, 09:39 AM
Will you take Time magazine seriously?

http://time.com/magazine/

No. :)

I especially won't make any judgements off of a magazine cover with no article.

Bluesky
04-05-2016, 10:01 AM
Would you be at all swayed if you read it?

So apparently there is a new disorder in town. Porn induced erectile dysfunction. Basically, that is the gist of the article. The data are in on the first generation of guys who grew up with unrestricted access to porn, and many of them now regret it, due to the above mentioned condition. They cannot perform, unless they are viewing or imagining porn.. which of course is totally unrealistic.

From the article:

So they’re beginning to push back, creating online community groups, smartphone apps and educational videos to help men quit porn. They have started blogs and podcasts and take all the public-speaking gigs they can get. Porn has always faced criticism among the faithful and the feminist. But now, for the first time, some of the most strident alarms are coming from the same demographic as its most enthusiastic customers.

http://www.rebootnation.org/

Barry Morris
04-05-2016, 10:17 AM
Swayed? Maybe.

Admit it? Not likely.

Bluesky
04-05-2016, 10:21 AM
Barry, stop with the judging..

Here is another exerpt
These men, and the thousands of others who populate their websites with stories of sexual dysfunction, are all at pains to make it clear that they are not antisex. “The reason I quit watching porn is to have more sex,” says Deem. “Quitting porn is one of the most sex-positive things people can do,” says Rhodes. One online commenter, sirrifo, put it more simply: “I just want to enjoy sex again and feel the desire for another person.”

The Chronic Liar
04-05-2016, 10:28 AM
Would you be at all swayed if you read it?

So apparently there is a new disorder in town. Porn induced erectile dysfunction. Basically, that is the gist of the article. The data are in on the first generation of guys who grew up with unrestricted access to porn, and many of them now regret it, due to the above mentioned condition. They cannot perform, unless they are viewing or imagining porn.. which of course is totally unrealistic.

From the article:


http://www.rebootnation.org/

I can't say whether or not I will be swayed without reading it in it's entirety. I am skeptical by nature though. I will admit that porn is bad for some people just like everything in life. A blanket statement that applies to all or most will have me extra critical.

Bluesky
04-05-2016, 10:44 AM
A blanket statement that applies to all or most will have me extra critical.

Follow some of those websites. You will see that there is enough evidence now that one can safely say porn is generally harmful to an enjoyable sex life. It is no longer deniable.

The Chronic Liar
04-05-2016, 10:55 AM
Because when people buy into the belief that porn is addictive, it changes the argument, and all of a sudden, it seems like it is porn and sex that are the problems. Porn addiction becomes a label, and seems to be an explanation, when in fact, it is just meaningless words and platitudes that distract from the real issue. But sex and porn arenít the problems. You are.

https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/women-who-stray/201305/porn-is-not-the-problem-you-are

Anapeg
04-05-2016, 11:00 AM
It would take an all or nothing at all approach. You would need morality police with a zero tolerance policy and eradicate porn. Now, imagine having to go beyond the interwebs and into literature (I use the word for the lack of a better replacement). Playboy and any other magazines that support the porn, soft and otherwise would also need be shut down. being as how there are billions to be made in porn the fight would be long and expensive because of being dragged through the courts.

Bluesky
04-05-2016, 11:44 AM
But sex and porn aren’t the problems. You are.

Sure, like alcoholism.. alcohol is not the real problem, you are. But the fact remains, it is not merely YOU that is the problem. It is YOU AND the porn or the alcohol.

Or like heroin addiction. You are the problem, not heroin.

But exactly HOW am I the problem?

I am the problem, because I have a pleasure centre in my brain that releases dopamine when I experience pleasure.
And some forms of pleasure releases a double or triple does that keeps me coming back for more.

So yes, it does become a real addiction, PT notwithstanding. I disagree with you that addiction is a misnomer. (The article you point to is 3 years old. There has been a ton of evidence since.)

But that doesn't really help by itself. It's the starting point - to recognize that I am the problem. And I am the only one who can do something about it.

Bluesky
04-05-2016, 11:51 AM
It would take an all or nothing at all approach.

For some, it has to be if they want their non-porn induced sex life back.

But we are not talking about the legality of porn. We are talking about the individual affected by it.
However, if there was a way of limiting access to porn to the age of majority, I would be all for it - in the same way skin mags were on the top shelf, and not typically sold to minors.

The Chronic Liar
04-05-2016, 11:57 AM
Sure, like alcoholism.. alcohol is not the real problem, you are. But the fact remains, it is not merely YOU that is the problem. It is YOU AND the porn or the alcohol.

Or like heroin addiction. You are the problem, not heroin.

But exactly HOW am I the problem?

I am the problem, because I have a pleasure centre in my brain that releases dopamine when I experience pleasure.
And some forms of pleasure releases a double or triple does that keeps me coming back for more.

So yes, it does become a real addiction, PT notwithstanding. I disagree with you that addiction is a misnomer. (The article you point to is 3 years old. There has been a ton of evidence since.)

But that doesn't really help by itself. It's the starting point - to recognize that I am the problem. And I am the only one who can do something about it.

The first sentence nullifies you whole heroine and alcohol argument.


"Porn is not addictive. Sex is not addictive. The ideas of porn and sex addiction are pop psychology concepts that seem to make sense, but have no legitimate scientific basis. "

The Chronic Liar
04-05-2016, 12:04 PM
I feel i should point out I don't actually believe in psychology

Bluesky
04-05-2016, 12:45 PM
"Porn is not addictive. Sex is not addictive. The ideas of porn and sex addiction are pop psychology concepts that seem to make sense, but have no legitimate scientific basis. "

That's a bald assertion. Made by a pop psychologist.
Look what he says -
For decades, these concepts have flourished in America, but have consistently been rejected by medicine and mental health. The media and American society have accepted that sex and porn are addictive, because it seems intuitively true - we all feel like sometimes, we might do something stupid or self-destructive, when sex is involved. But, this false belief is dangerous, and ultimately not helpful. Because when people buy into the belief that porn is addictive, it changes the argument, and all of a sudden, it seems like it is porn and sex that are the problems. Porn addiction becomes a label, and seems to be an explanation, when in fact, it is just meaningless words and platitudes that distract from the real issue. But sex and porn aren’t the problems. You are.

He talks about decades. Which means he is talking about the porn of yesteryear - and further to that he says

Porn can affect people, but it does not take them over or override their values. If someone watches porn showing something they find distasteful, it has no impact on their behavior or desires.

Are you kidding me? This guy needs a wakeup call. He is either lying or blind as a bat (as a psychologist he should know better). What I find distasteful today I can tolerate. What I can tolerate, I may eventually desire. Much like my taste for asparagus. I once couldn't stand the stuff. Made me throw up. I love it today.

Barry Morris
04-05-2016, 12:54 PM
Barry, stop with the judging..



The irony.

RWGR
04-05-2016, 12:56 PM
This thread is an interesting discussion, but one guy, who lives for negativity and to fight, keeps butting in

The Chronic Liar
04-05-2016, 01:16 PM
That's a bald assertion. Made by a pop psychologist.
Look what he says -

He talks about decades. Which means he is talking about the porn of yesteryear - and further to that he says


Are you kidding me? This guy needs a wakeup call. He is either lying or blind as a bat (as a psychologist he should know better). What I find distasteful today I can tolerate. What I can tolerate, I may eventually desire. Much like my taste for asparagus. I once couldn't stand the stuff. Made me throw up. I love it today.

But that's your tastebuds. They change. If you watch someone shove the asparagus up their arse day in and day out, would you eventually desire it. I would say not.

Bluesky
04-05-2016, 05:37 PM
But that's your tastebuds. They change. If you watch someone shove the asparagus up their arse day in and day out, would you eventually desire it. I would say not.

You heard about the guy who went to the doctor with a stalk of celery sticking out of one ear, asparagus out the other and sprigs of parsley in his nose. His doctor said, "You're not eating right."

Anapeg
04-06-2016, 11:46 AM
For some, it has to be if they want their non-porn induced sex life back.

But we are not talking about the legality of porn. We are talking about the individual affected by it.
However, if there was a way of limiting access to porn to the age of majority, I would be all for it - in the same way, skin mags were on the top shelf, and not typically sold to minors.

My point being, should porn remain available the individual you allude to would succumb to his weakness every time. Add to this the way today's society kneels at the altar of political correctness the seemingly obvious, knee-jerk reaction would eliminate the demon rather than call in an exorcist for the one suffering.

The Chronic Liar
04-07-2016, 09:02 AM
For you blue. Supports your take.

http://www.saultstar.com/2016/04/06/talking-god-and-sex

Bluesky
04-07-2016, 09:59 AM
Thanks. But it's not my take. It's the take of thousands of others who ave been there, done that.
I have little experience myself in this area, except that I have counselled others about it.

The Chronic Liar
04-07-2016, 10:35 AM
Thanks. But it's not my take. It's the take of thousands of others who ave been there, done that.
I have little experience myself in this area, except that I have counselled others about it.

I'm with the billions of people who haven't been there done that.

Hans
04-08-2016, 08:06 PM
Thanks. But it's not my take. It's the take of thousands of others who ave been there, done that.
I have little experience myself in this area, except that I have counselled others about it.

I see that as a big problem. Best way to investigate in dive into that world yourself. Then you can measure for yourself if this is indeed harmful or not.
Until then you are just jumping on a bandwagon pulled by others.

Barry Morris
04-08-2016, 10:28 PM
I see that as a big problem. Best way to investigate in dive into that world yourself. Then you can measure for yourself if this is indeed harmful or not.
Until then you are just jumping on a bandwagon pulled by others.

I'm going right out to become an alcoholic.

Bluesky
04-08-2016, 10:41 PM
And maybe I ought to become a rootin tootin bank robber to really understand the dangers of armed robbery.

Hans
04-09-2016, 03:02 AM
And maybe I ought to become a rootin tootin bank robber to really understand the dangers of armed robbery.

So are you stating watching porn is the same as robbing a bank?

Hans
04-09-2016, 03:03 AM
I'm going right out to become an alcoholic.

So alcoholism is the same as watching porn online?

Barry Morris
04-09-2016, 07:02 AM
So alcoholism is the same as watching porn online?

Well, let me quote you just to be precise.

"Best way to investigate in dive into that world yourself. Then you can measure for yourself if this is indeed harmful or not.
Until then you are just jumping on a bandwagon pulled by others."

I think just about anyone would understand that to say that, if one has not experienced an act, one cannot understand the consequences of that act. And therefore cannot speak against the act as possibly being dangerous to another's person's well being.

Would seem to me that, therefore, you believe that any counselling one might receive would be useless if the counsellor has not had personal experience in the area of his speciality.

Or are you just blowing wind?

Again.

Barry Morris
04-09-2016, 07:04 AM
Must be time for me to become a Bible thumper then.

Be careful!! It might change your life!!! :) :) :)

RWGR
04-09-2016, 08:19 AM
Be careful!! It might change your life!!! :) :) :)

Or yours.

Still waiting.

Bluesky
04-09-2016, 11:41 AM
Must be time for me to become a Bible thumper then.

No one brought the Bible into this conversation up to this point, but you did. Which shows your bias.

Here is a Washington Post. Just showed up on my feed today.
Note, it says, the Science is now indisputable.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/posteverything/wp/2016/04/08/is-porn-immoral-that-doesnt-matter-its-a-public-health-crisis/?tid=sm_fb

How much more evidence do you need?
Are are you in total denial?

Bluesky
04-09-2016, 03:25 PM
Your bias - You think that because I am merely a "biblethumper" I post these things, because I want other people to conform to my way of thinking. That's okay by me.

In reality, I am not aiming for the people that typically respond with verbal hostility and mockery on these fora. I am aiming for folks who are struggling with a problem that they know in their heart of hearts is not only wrong, but is destroying their marriage, their family. And they may read, but probably won't respond in the forum. But they may read the links and do something to change their ways.

I have counselled with numbers of such individuals in person and I know the devastation this can cause.

This has been my reason for posting once or twice a year on this topic, and I will continue to do so.

This is a very serious problem, and your chirping only indicates that you have little understanding.



So feel free to use ad hominem. It doesn't matter. Because you are not the person I hope to convince.

Bluesky
04-09-2016, 04:19 PM
Your suggestion about becoming a bank robber was obviously something you're unlikely to ever do. I posted about something just as unlikely for me. It's that simple.

I can see you missed my point entirely.

Hans
04-09-2016, 05:34 PM
Well, let me quote you just to be precise.

"Best way to investigate in dive into that world yourself. Then you can measure for yourself if this is indeed harmful or not.
Until then you are just jumping on a bandwagon pulled by others."

I think just about anyone would understand that to say that, if one has not experienced an act, one cannot understand the consequences of that act. And therefore cannot speak against the act as possibly being dangerous to another's person's well being.

Would seem to me that, therefore, you believe that any counselling one might receive would be useless if the counsellor has not had personal experience in the area of his speciality.

Or are you just blowing wind?

Again.

You would first have to scientifically establish the issue before you can devise a method of curing the ailment.
I have yet to see any actual medical evidence in a medical journal or any other medical trustworthy source clearly outlining the issue.

All I have seen so far is articles in the media and some blogs, where often the poster has a personal interest in the story.

Hans
04-09-2016, 05:38 PM
If you want to see the actual truth on porn, you should watch a Netflix documentary called "hot girls wanted"
It is a documentary, no nudity in it.

I would say that documentary captures the problem, and I would like to see what you actually learned from watching that documentary.
I can assure you you will be surprised.

The Chronic Liar
04-09-2016, 06:33 PM
No one brought the Bible into this conversation up to this point, but you did. Which shows your bias.

Here is a Washington Post. Just showed up on my feed today.
Note, it says, the Science is now indisputable.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/posteverything/wp/2016/04/08/is-porn-immoral-that-doesnt-matter-its-a-public-health-crisis/?tid=sm_fb

How much more evidence do you need?
Are are you in total denial?

LOL because a radical feminist who makes a fortune on the subject says the science is indisputable?

The Chronic Liar
04-09-2016, 06:37 PM
http://mobile.abc.net.au/news/2012-04-11/brull-misrepresentations-in-the-great-porn-debate/3943200

Here is an article about the author of that article Blue


Interested readers can consult the study for themselves. A lot of the study is technical and difficult. Page 79 reports that "We cannot conclude on the basis of these analyses that pornography is a cause or an outcome of sexually aggressive tendencies (or both), although the association does not appear to be a spurious relationship". On page 84, they explain that "scientific causal models may ... be better framed in terms of the confluence of several factors", not in the 'but for' test familiar to people who study or practice law. That is, 'but for porn, x wouldn't happen'. It concludes that there seems to be a correlation between particularly sexually aggressive men and very frequent pornography use, suggesting the need for "increased research attention on the use and impact of pornography in men at elevated risk for sexual aggression". However, the "current findings do suggest that for the majority of American men, pornography exposure (even at the highest levels assessed here) is not associated with high levels of sexual aggression".

Barry Morris
04-09-2016, 06:58 PM
http://mobile.abc.net.au/news/2012-04-11/brull-misrepresentations-in-the-great-porn-debate/3943200

Here is an article about the author of that article Blue


Interested readers can consult the study for themselves. A lot of the study is technical and difficult. Page 79 reports that "We cannot conclude on the basis of these analyses that pornography is a cause or an outcome of sexually aggressive tendencies (or both), although the association does not appear to be a spurious relationship". On page 84, they explain that "scientific causal models may ... be better framed in terms of the confluence of several factors", not in the 'but for' test familiar to people who study or practice law. That is, 'but for porn, x wouldn't happen'. It concludes that there seems to be a correlation between particularly sexually aggressive men and very frequent pornography use, suggesting the need for "increased research attention on the use and impact of pornography in men at elevated risk for sexual aggression". However, the "current findings do suggest that for the majority of American men, pornography exposure (even at the highest levels assessed here) is not associated with high levels of sexual aggression".

But "sexually aggressive tendencies" were not the object of discussion.

You may think you have proved something. You have not.

The Chronic Liar
04-09-2016, 07:03 PM
But "sexually aggressive tendencies" were not the object of discussion.

You may think you have proved something. You have not.

Blue posted an article with a quote from Gail Dines saying the evidence is indisputable. I provided a link suggesting it is disputable and that any "proof" offered by Ms. Dines is not necessarily believable.

In another attempt at a gotcha moment, Barry failed miserably again. Keep trying Barry.

Btw... In the article Blue posted, which I quoted directly...yes sexually aggressive tendencies are covered.

Barry Morris
04-09-2016, 07:17 PM
Blue posted an article with a quote from Gail Dines saying the evidence is indisputable. I provided a link suggesting it is disputable and that any "proof" offered by Ms. Dines is not necessarily believable.

In another attempt at a gotcha moment, Barry failed miserably again. Keep trying Barry.

Btw... In the article Blue posted, which I quoted directly...yes sexually aggressive tendencies are covered.

Covered. Sure. All of the issue? You wish. Shoot the messenger.

In another attempt at a gotcha moment, The Liar failed miserably again. Keep trying Liar.

If this isn't your problem, great. But don't think for a minute it isn't someone elses.

Of course, I think it common that folks might seek justification by disagreement.

Have a great weekend !!!

The Chronic Liar
04-09-2016, 07:35 PM
Covered. Sure. All of the issue? You wish. Shoot the messenger.

In another attempt at a gotcha moment, The Liar failed miserably again. Keep trying Liar.

If this isn't your problem, great. But don't think for a minute it isn't someone elses.

Of course, I think it common that folks might seek justification by disagreement.

Have a great weekend !!!

I never said it's not someone elses problem. It's a lot of people's problem. What I am saying is that to the average person it is not a problem.

The Chronic Liar
04-09-2016, 07:36 PM
Covered. Sure. All of the issue? You wish. Shoot the messenger.

In another attempt at a gotcha moment, The Liar failed miserably again. Keep trying Liar.

If this isn't your problem, great. But don't think for a minute it isn't someone elses.

Of course, I think it common that folks might seek justification by disagreement.

Have a great weekend !!!

Good god Barry who said it was ALL of the problem. Does every post have to cover every single bad thing about porn to satisfy you?

Hans
04-09-2016, 07:45 PM
Your bias - You think that because I am merely a "biblethumper" I post these things, because I want other people to conform to my way of thinking. That's okay by me.

In reality, I am not aiming for the people that typically respond with verbal hostility and mockery on these fora. I am aiming for folks who are struggling with a problem that they know in their heart of hearts is not only wrong, but is destroying their marriage, their family. And they may read, but probably won't respond in the forum. But they may read the links and do something to change their ways.

I have counselled with numbers of such individuals in person and I know the devastation this can cause.

This has been my reason for posting once or twice a year on this topic, and I will continue to do so.

This is a very serious problem, and your chirping only indicates that you have little understanding.



So feel free to use ad hominem. It doesn't matter. Because you are not the person I hope to convince.

I thought this was about curing people. Convincing people is not the same as curing people.
Are you trying to convince them they are cured once they follow God's teachings?

RWGR
04-10-2016, 10:41 AM
BM is one miserable person anymore, is he not???