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Bluesky
04-11-2016, 03:50 PM
Anytime there is something newsworthy about the RCC, RW scours the web for any dirt he can find on Protestants, and then floods the Religion forum at a ratio of about a zillion to one with his anti-Prot articles.

I bet he also thinks that speaking louder is a valid argument.

It's a hard life being such a brilliant logician :)

Hey, RW, I'm just joshing. Doing my part to keep Soonet alive..

RWGR
04-11-2016, 04:31 PM
I figured the 'voting' thread would throw you into a tizzy. Your response here proves I was correct. Your lack of response on the other thread shows why you are in a tizzy: you can't respond, because there is no rebuttal.

I also figured the Luther thread would just garner a 'whatever' response from you, because even you know ol' Luther was a loose cannon, and a few cards short of a full deck,shall we say.

May I ask, Blue, what your church's stance is on gay marriage?

RWGR
04-11-2016, 04:40 PM
I would also call attention to the fact Blue loves to call people out for "shooting the messenger", and not addressing the message...yet notice what this thread is: a shot at the messenger. He can create a thread ignoring the issue and attacking the OP, but you cannot do so, even if it's the 100th response in a long-winded thread.

So Blue's hypocrisy is on full display. HE will make the rules, HE will determine what is in and out of bounds.

Convenient, EH?

RWGR
04-11-2016, 04:49 PM
...and it should only be a matter of time before Anapeg comes in here and takes Blue to task...if there is a member who hates "shoot the messenger, ignore the message" more than Anapeg, I wouldn't know who it could be!

Yes sir, any minute now he will come in here and administer a cyber-verbal-lashing to Blue for creating an entire thread for the sole purpose of shooting the messenger and ignoring the message!

Bluesky
04-11-2016, 10:33 PM
See what I mean? Three posts to my one. Am I that scary? That much of a threat?
I rest my case.

Bluesky
04-11-2016, 10:34 PM
May I ask, Blue, what your church's stance is on gay marriage?

Same as yours. Unless yours changes :)

RWGR
04-13-2016, 08:20 AM
See what I mean? Three posts to my one. Am I that scary? That much of a threat?
I rest my case.

No, Blue, you're not much of a threat at all,sadly. You'd think a man in your position would be; but you're hamstrung by the circuitous nature of your chosen beliefs.

RWGR
04-13-2016, 08:24 AM
Same as yours. Unless yours changes :)

And you believe the Holy Spirit guides you, through Sola Scriptura primarily, to get it right.

I would bet Norway's Lutheran Church, plus others who have followed s similar path on the gay marriage issue, also believe the Holy Spirit guides them, through Sola Scriptura primarily, to get it right.

So, I ask: why is the Holy Spirit telling you guys contradictory messages?

RWGR
04-13-2016, 08:25 AM
And any minute now Anapeg will come in here and administer a cyber-verbal-lashing to Blue for creating an entire thread for the sole purpose of shooting the messenger and ignoring the message...any minute now



...gonna' happen, 'cuz he's not a hypocrite with these things ...






















...any minute now ...

Bluesky
04-13-2016, 09:20 AM
You see? Like I said.. three posts to my one. I feel... flattered by all this attention.
He can't help himself.

RWGR
04-13-2016, 09:34 AM
...and we'll just keep pretending you're not answering because you don't want to, not that you can't :)

RWGR
04-13-2016, 09:35 AM
Actually, two of the posts were for you, one was for Anapeg.

But with an ego the size of your's, well, mistakes like that are made. :) :) :)

Bluesky
04-13-2016, 12:16 PM
Ouch. That really really hurt, you doo doo head.

RWGR
04-13-2016, 03:10 PM
any minute now Anapeg will come in here and administer a cyber-verbal-lashing to Blue for creating an entire thread for the sole purpose of shooting the messenger and ignoring the message...any minute now



...gonna' happen, 'cuz he's not a hypocrite with these things ...






















...any minute now ...

RWGR
04-13-2016, 04:43 PM
Blue,

you believe the Holy Spirit guides you, through Sola Scriptura primarily, to get it right.

I would bet Norway's Lutheran Church, plus others who have followed s similar path on the gay marriage issue, also believe the Holy Spirit guides them, through Sola Scriptura primarily, to get it right.

So, I ask: why is the Holy Spirit telling you guys contradictory messages?

Hans
04-13-2016, 09:13 PM
Simple answer: to confuse you.

Bluesky
04-14-2016, 09:26 AM
Blue,

you believe the Holy Spirit guides you, through Sola Scriptura primarily, to get it right.

I would bet Norway's Lutheran Church, plus others who have followed s similar path on the gay marriage issue, also believe the Holy Spirit guides them, through Sola Scriptura primarily, to get it right.

So, I ask: why is the Holy Spirit telling you guys contradictory messages?

Serious questions deserve an answer.

You said,
you believe the Holy Spirit guides you, through Sola Scriptura primarily, to get it right.


Yes, we believe the HS guides is through Sola Scirptura, but you have forgotten tradition. That is also very important to us serious Protestants. We believe the doctrines of the early church are very important.

The difference is that we do not believe that outside of the apostles, humans are infallible in discerning that Spirit guidance.

That is the difference that divides RC christians from Protestant Christians.

But how is it that the Lutheran church or other parts of the Protestant Church disagrees with the conservative part of the Evangelical Prot church? Simple.
When church leaders deny the innerancy of Scriptures, the reasons for the divide become quite plain.
It happened to the UNited Church of Canada, to the extent that now you can actually be an atheist and still be ordained as a UCC minister.

That's what happens when you do not regard the Scriptures as inerrant and authoritative.

DOes that answer your question?

The answer is, segments of the church that go liberal jettison the doctrine of the authority and trustworthiness of Scriptures.

RWGR
04-14-2016, 11:10 AM
That helps, thank you

RWGR
04-14-2016, 11:15 AM
But I would also add...does this not show a fundamental problem with Sola Scriptura?

who decides what is "progressive"? "Radical" "Un-Scriptural"?

With SS, a genuine Norwegian Lutheran can truly believe, in his heart of hearts, that what they did was through the guidance of the Holy Spirit. But you say he mis-interpreted what the Holy Spirit wants.

But who decides?

You do, so in essence you claim human infallibility cannot exist, yet practice it, do you not? You deny the infallibility of a Magesterium with two millennium as its foundation, but grant infallibility to each individual who practices Sola Scriptura, in a sense.

Bluesky
04-14-2016, 08:57 PM
But I would also add...does this not show a fundamental problem with Sola Scriptura?

who decides what is "progressive"? "Radical" "Un-Scriptural"?

I don't quite understand why anyone needs to decide what about God's Word is radical or progressive. Those are human labels that I am not much concerned about.

If something is not found in Scriptures, it is unscriptural. What's the problem here?




With SS, a genuine Norwegian Lutheran can truly believe, in his heart of hearts, that what they did was through the guidance of the Holy Spirit. But you say he mis-interpreted what the Holy Spirit wants.

But who decides?

RWGR, the mistake you are making is assuming that the Norwegian Lutheran in question cares about SS. Like I said above, once the high view of Scripture goes, everything else begins to slide.


You do, so in essence you claim human infallibility cannot exist, yet practice it, do you not? You deny the infallibility of a Magesterium with two millennium as its foundation, but grant infallibility to each individual who practices Sola Scriptura, in a sense.

Not at all. I have never claimed that I am infallible.
I will show you how I "roll"

Take John 3:16.
16 “For God so loved the world,[a] that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.

Do we need an infallible interpretation of the above? It seems to me that if I regard the above word as infallible, I can trust it the way it stands, without a magisterium telling me what it means.

1. God loves the world. I safely assume it means the people of the world, because the second part of the verse references people.
2. He loved the world to the extent that he allowed His infinitely beloved Son to come to this earth to live and die for us.
3. He did this for the purpose of granting us eternal life, if we will have it by believing it.

As I look back to the writings of the early church fathers, the church leaders of the middle ages, and today's solid theologians, I see that they all agree with that interpretation. Therefore it is quite reasonable that I have landed on the correct interpretation of the verse.

I fail to see why I need an infallible man to tell me what is already obvious. And by trusting in what His word says, I am by no means claiming to be infallible.

RWGR
04-15-2016, 10:07 AM
You're saying the Bible is "obvious"?

In some parts, sure. In many parts, not at all.


If something is not found in Scriptures, it is unscriptural. What's the problem here?

The idea of the Holy Trinity, how biblical is that?

And "radical" or "progressive", etc, referred to actions some churches are taking today, like accepting gay marriage. It was not referring to anything in the Bible.

Bluesky
04-15-2016, 10:14 AM
So we fundamentally agree that the Scriptures are infallible.
We disagree on whether a group of humans today can be infallible.

We have know that for some time. We've pretty much said all there is to say.

Let's leave it at that.

RWGR
04-15-2016, 10:16 AM
lol...the guy that bemoans the lack of conversation in here.

but, you make the rules...it's your world, we just live in it :)

RWGR
04-15-2016, 10:16 AM
Can you at least answer if the idea of the Holy Trinity is in the Bible?

Bluesky
04-15-2016, 10:59 AM
Certaianly. The idea of the Holy Trinity is in the Bible.
Jesus Christ is referred to as God.
The Holy Spirit is referred to as God
And of course the Father is as well.
Yet each of them have distinctive roles, and they seem to relate to each other in Scripture.
Secondly, the early church taught this, and it became an important distinctive of the Christian church as Athanasius at great cost to himself finally won the battle against Arianism.
That tradition I will gladly accept.

Bluesky
04-15-2016, 11:03 AM
lol...the guy that bemoans the lack of conversation in here.

but, you make the rules...it's your world, we just live in it :)

Grammar lesson alert.

Let's leave it at that. This is not an imperative mode. It is rather a subjunctive.

So, not a rule. An invitation. As in - Let us make peace..

As to further conversation, I do not like going over the same ground again and again.
Its like endlessly saying,
No I didn't. Yes you did.
No I didn't. Yes you did.
No I didn't. Yes you did.
No I didn't. Yes you did.
No I didn't. Yes you did.
No I didn't. Yes you did.
No I didn't. Yes you did.
No I didn't. Yes you did.
No I didn't. Yes you did.
No I didn't. Yes you did.

RWGR
04-15-2016, 11:06 AM
Certaianly. The idea of the Holy Trinity is in the Bible.
Jesus Christ is referred to as God.
The Holy Spirit is referred to as God
And of course the Father is as well.
Yet each of them have distinctive roles, and they seem to relate to each other in Scripture.
Secondly, the early church taught this, and it became an important distinctive of the Christian church as Athanasius at great cost to himself finally won the battle against Arianism.
That tradition I will gladly accept.

But it took almost three centuries after Jesus for us to hear of "the Holy Trinity".


Why is that?

RWGR
04-15-2016, 11:07 AM
Grammar lesson alert.

Let's leave it at that. This is not an imperative mode. It is rather a subjunctive.

So, not a rule. An invitation. As in - Let us make peace..

As to further conversation, I do not like going over the same ground again and again.
Its like endlessly saying,
No I didn't. Yes you did.
No I didn't. Yes you did.
No I didn't. Yes you did.
No I didn't. Yes you did.
No I didn't. Yes you did.
No I didn't. Yes you did.
No I didn't. Yes you did.
No I didn't. Yes you did.
No I didn't. Yes you did.
No I didn't. Yes you did.

Like I say, you make the rules. You break them when you please, and decry when others do so without your blessing.

It is enjoyable to watch such an ego at work :)

Bluesky
04-15-2016, 12:54 PM
Yes, you've said that be..

Waaaiit a minute! Is this a bot on the other end?
Or are you copying and pasting?

RWGR
04-17-2016, 11:10 AM
No substantive response.

When a Catholic layperson stumps a Protestant minister you kind of get the gist of why Protestantism is man meeting God and man's terms, while Catholicism is man meeting God on God's terms.





Thanks, Blue, you confirm my belief in Catholicism almost daily ...it happens almost every time! :)

Bluesky
04-17-2016, 04:00 PM
But it took almost three centuries after Jesus for us to hear of "the Holy Trinity".


Why is that?

False assumption. The ECF writings often refer to the Trinity. Arius stirred things up, and so through the influence and leadership of Athanasius it was clarified. Not discovered. We heard of it long before the Big A.