Doctor Shortage

[NewCasa]

http://www.sootoday.com/content/news/full_story.asp?StoryNumber=27585

For years I have been mystified by the lack of doctors in Northern Ontario and Ontario overall. Can't people see that the College of Physicians is it's own self-regulating monopoly and we, as citizens of Ontario have stood by blindly while our elected officials not only allowed this to happen, but encouraged the situation?

It's the College of Physicians that sets acedemic standards for medical schools. They set them so high that it's almost impossible to get in, let alone graduate. So, being a good doctor has what exactly to do with being a good student? Excuse me, but if my doctor has to study his text books before my annual checkup I'm out of luck. Sure, I can understand very high acedemic standards for surgeons and other highly specialized areas, but to deliberately limit the number of GP's is unethical. It's pure self-interest. How do you get paid more? Supply and demand right?

Being a GP is about people, pure and simple. It's a totally different occupation than say, a brain surgeon or an anesthitist. Sure, you're dealing with the human body, but there the similarity ends.

I am certainly not disrespecting mine or anyone else's doctor, however when we're so short of doctors in the Sault that people have to wait months before seeing one or may not be able to get one at all there is something wrong. And to my head it's the College of Surgeons.

Loosen up the acedemic requirements, but make the practical exams more broader based, especially for those doctors bound for General Practice. Include some homeopathic work and a good dose of psychology too ok?

What silliness we allow this antiquated boy's club to run our health care system. Now wonder things look bad.

Ok, that's my rant for the day /ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif

[Soundbear]

Doctors are leaving the Sault.

How come nobody EVER asks THEM why they are leaving???

Question: What percentage of Sault doctors have hospital privileges??

[Karen-Annie]

Academic standards set out by the College of Physicians and Surgeons is <u>NOT</u> the cause of a our doctor shortage.Too few SPACES in medical schools is one of the root causes.And that goes back to the Ontario government of the day,the NDP, who slashed the number of seats.No government has put back those seats.Added to that a different "kind" of doctor who is not willing to be available 24/7,who wants a family life,who retires at 65 or 70(as opposed to working until they simply CAN'T) and all those boomer generation docs who are now or who will soon be retiring and the shortage will get worse before it gets better.

It is the province which also sets out what foreign trained doctors have to do to be qualified to practice in this province and despite promises to speed up the process,virtually nothing has been done in that area either.

[GRUMPY]

Very few from the Group Health

[Karen-Annie]

Are you sure,grumpy? I know that the GHC(I'm not sure about docs in private practice) started a program awhile back where their in-hospital patients were seen by one doctor.Family docs don't necessarily make ANY visits to their own patients though there are some who choose to at least drop in.

[newman]

So NoCasa, what you're suggesting is that we lower our standards. That's a hot one! Why try to be the best when you can shoot for mediocrity! That's a George Costanza attitude!

[Soundbear]

From what most of us understand, it's not about standards. Foreign doctors are being kept out, period.

The College could set the standards wherever they want. Then allow doctors to practice where they like once those standards are met.

That is NOT happening!!!

[NewCasa]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: newman</div><div class="ubbcode-body">So NoCasa, what you're suggesting is that we lower our standards. That's a hot one! Why try to be the best when you can shoot for mediocrity! That's a George Costanza attitude! </div></div>

My point is that they're not our standards, they're the standards that have been set almost impossibly high by an elitist, monopolistic boy's club. So sure, take it that way if you like, whatever.

I still maintain that being a good doctor has only a little bit to do with being a good student. There are many other considerations so I'm just suggesting that we maybe take some of the emphasis off the marks and no, I'm not shooting for mediocrity, I'm shooting for more relancy and more availability. I am not suggesting we drop the marks requirements for med school to 60%, but maybe 85% would do, don't you think?

[newman]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: NoCasa</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: newman</div><div class="ubbcode-body">So NoCasa, what you're suggesting is that we lower our standards. That's a hot one! Why try to be the best when you can shoot for mediocrity! That's a George Costanza attitude! </div></div>

My point is that they're not our standards, they're the standards that have been set almost impossibly high by an elitist, monopolistic boy's club. So sure, take it that way if you like, whatever.

I still maintain that being a good doctor has only a little bit to do with being a good student. There are many other considerations so I'm just suggesting that we maybe take some of the emphasis off the marks and no, I'm not shooting for mediocrity, I'm shooting for more relancy and more availability. I am not suggesting we drop the marks requirements for med school to 60%, but maybe 85% would do, don't you think?</div></div>

No I do not. Personally I would prefer the guy with the highest grades.

Considering that they let a hack like JP practice in the Sault for so long and cover so many shifts at emergency, the standards can't be that high :|

I'd take a taxi driver over that arrogant incompetent any day.

I have a doctor friend who worked a while at our hospital. He would have loved to settle down here because he thought the area around the Sault was beautiful and the pace was so much slower outside of work. His main reasons for not sticking around even though the opportunity was there, was SAH management and local doctor politics, poor facilities for the patient load and working conditions, and the isolation and small town syndrome. His opinion was all that was enough for most doctors look elsewhere.

[newman]

Hopefully the new hospital will help change some of these concerns. A new building alone has helped The Greyhounds.

[Soundbear]

Ya know what they say, Newman. A students teach, and B students work for the C students

[dancingqueen]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: newman</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Hopefully the new hospital will help change some of these concerns. A new building alone has helped The Greyhounds. </div></div>

yes, I am sure that is the major concern of why doctors don't come here... it's not the hospital politics, nor the small city, or the patient load... it's because our current hospital is so "icky" once we change that, they will come in by the droves!
seriously... I would be very suprised if this hospital attracts many more doctors by itself.

[Karen-Annie]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: NoCasa</div><div class="ubbcode-body">point is that they're not our standards, they're the standards that have been set almost impossibly high by an elitist, monopolistic boy's club.
we maybe take some of the emphasis off the marks and no, I'm not shooting for mediocrity, I'm shooting for more relancy and more availability. I am not suggesting we drop the marks requirements for med school to 60%, but maybe 85% would do, don't you think? </div></div>

It is NOT impossibly high marks that are the problem.It is TOO FEW spots in medical schools,like I said.85% won't get you in if there are only let's say 100 spots in the first year and 200 or more applicants with 90+%.Marks are NOT the only criteria looked at either.But 2 candidates being equal in other areas and one has 95% and one has 85%,that spot will go to the one with higher marks.

Until the provincial government adds LOTS more spots in med schools and the College speeds up the process for accreditation of foreign-trained doctors,the shortage will continue and grow.

[Soundbear]

In general, this all sound to me a lot like the problem in industry. Companies don't train apprentices (equivalent to medical school) and then scream they can't get workers.

[NewCasa]

Ok - I'll accept what you say, however I still think there's a major issue in that I believe the College of Physicians and Surgeons is not dealing with the problem appropriately. We can always blame the government, however the mandate for the government of the day is ALWAYS set by the special interest groups and the College is quite a powerful group. What are they doing to move the government to a resolution for this issue?

[MagicFingers]

I have actually talked to 2 doctors and both have given me the same explanation seperately. Not only did the College of Physicians decrease the amount of graduates graduating and entering they also increased the number of women doctors and decreased male doctors graduating. Although some may say this is fare or unfare the issue with this and the reality is. Most female doctors eventually want children of their own and then take maternity leave and time off to care for their families. Many ultimately work less hours, this isn't to down play the value of female doctors but it is the reality. So now we have fewer doctors and more women doctors who don't tend to work the same number of hours as male doctors. Ontop of these issues are the issues directed at the government. The government has put a cap on doctors and how much they make. In other words a doctor who sees 500 patients will make the same amount of money as a doctor who sees 100 patients. Government does not have any incentives for a doctor to take bigger caseloads even though many doctors can take larger case loads they choose not to because there really is no incentive. Those are some of the scenarios our doctors who choose to stay here deal with. Then you have the ever growing competition for doctor's to go to the States to work because they get what they are worth. Can't say I blame them really.