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Macs II
10-26-2007, 10:28 PM
I was behind a school bus today and noticed a sticker "maximum fine $2000.00" ...so I was thinking for someone making $20.000 a year it's lot of money but to someone who makes $200.000 it's nothing.
So the question is should the fines be based on your income like they are in Europe to make them more fair.

The 6th Member Of AC/DC
10-26-2007, 10:28 PM
You break the law you pay the fine...

terr994
10-26-2007, 10:33 PM
Speaking of fines, I got one in the mail today....wrong license plate number, in a town I never heard of or been too for that matter! baffled about it, must be someone that way with same name is all I can think of, gonna phone on monday to check it out.

Macs II
10-26-2007, 10:33 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: The 6th Member Of AC/DC</div><div class="ubbcode-body">You break the law you pay the fine... </div></div>

Thats not what I meant ....In Europe fines are based on your income ...more you make, more you pay. But it's also the same percentage for everyone.

Guest
10-26-2007, 10:48 PM
I rather like that idea. But what happens if you have a vagrant that gets fined? They pay nothing?

Macs II
10-26-2007, 10:56 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Short _Circutz</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I rather like that idea. But what happens if you have a vagrant that gets fined? They pay nothing? </div></div>
There is a minimum fine ....but how would they pay $2000.00 fine or any fine even here?

I think the idea is to be fair ...because here lower income people get punished lot more than higher income people.
To someone making over $100.000 a year $1000.00 fine is not much but someone making a minimum wage it would be struggle to pay.

1337
10-26-2007, 11:35 PM
The problem is not who can or who can't pay it

Oh boo hoo, I can't pay my fine!

DON'T BREAK THE LAW!

Lance
10-26-2007, 11:36 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">fine is not much but someone making a minimum wage it would be struggle to pay.
</div></div>

In that case you would rather do the time? Like they do in the movies when the judge saids " $2000 Dollars fine or 14 days in jail.

Macs II
10-26-2007, 11:37 PM
[quote=T-pot]The problem is not who can or who can't pay it

Oh boo hoo, I can't pay my fine!

DON'T BREAK THE LAW /quote]

yeah well but people do get speeding tickets and so on ...unless you're a T-Pot who never has gotten a ticket and never will. lol

1337
10-26-2007, 11:37 PM
So if your travelling behind a school bus, and see "Maximum fine $2000".

Think to yourself?!?!?!?! ITS A SCHOOL BUS WITH CHILDREN! Should I pass it when the lights are flashing? Because my broke [censored] can't pay the fine and the 7 points, or should I just OBEY THE LAW and wait my turn!

1337
10-26-2007, 11:39 PM
People who break the law get speeding tickets, THEY ARE LAW BREAKERS!

You obey the law, you don't get fined, you don't get tickets, you don't write dumb threads because you can't pay your ticket!

All is fine!

/ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif

Macs II
10-26-2007, 11:40 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lance</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">fine is not much but someone making a minimum wage it would be struggle to pay.
</div></div>

In that case you would rather do the time? Like they do in the movies when the judge saids " $2000 Dollars fine or 14 days in jail. </div></div>

No...In Europe the fines are based on your income ....for example someone making $20.000 a year will get a fine of $200.00 but someone making $200.000 will get a $2000.00 fine so it's equal to their income.

Macs II
10-26-2007, 11:42 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: T-pot</div><div class="ubbcode-body">People who break the law get speeding tickets, THEY ARE LAW BREAKERS!

You obey the law, you don't get fined, you don't get tickets, you don't write dumb threads because you can't pay your ticket!

All is fine!

/ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif </div></div>


Thats not the question at all ..read it again ...

1337
10-26-2007, 11:43 PM
No the fines, to keep it fair, should be the same price for everyone.

1337
10-26-2007, 11:44 PM
It is like going to walmart and saying

This toaster is $15 for people making $8.00/hour but $125 for people making $34 an hour.

Macs II
10-26-2007, 11:44 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: T-pot</div><div class="ubbcode-body">So if your travelling behind a school bus, and see "Maximum fine $2000".

Think to yourself?!?!?!?! ITS A =SCHOOL BUS WITH CHILDREN! Should I pass it when the lights are flashing? Because my broke [censored] can't pay the fine and the 7 points, or should I just OBEY THE LAW and wait my turn! </div></div>

You just don't get it but no surprise there. The question was should the fine be based on your income ...meaning people with higher income paying a higher fine.

Macs II
10-26-2007, 11:47 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: T-pot</div><div class="ubbcode-body">It is like going to walmart and saying

This toaster is $15 for people making $8.00/hour but $125 for people making $34 an hour. </div></div>


No it's not ....for someone making a minimum wage a $200.00 fine is lot harder than to someone making $150.000 a year. So in reality the low income person is getting punished more and the rich will laugh it off. Fine is suppose to be a punishment because you broke the law .

she
10-26-2007, 11:48 PM
is buying toasters illegal ? is there a fine for buying one ? can i only pay as much income tax as the person who makes half of what i make ?

Macs II
10-26-2007, 11:50 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">can i only pay as much income tax as the person who makes half of what i make ? </div></div>

In reality higher income people pay more taxes than lower income people make in a year.

Macs II
10-26-2007, 11:52 PM
The question was about fines ..not income taxes or toasters

1337
10-26-2007, 11:53 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Macs</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: T-pot</div><div class="ubbcode-body">So if your travelling behind a school bus, and see "Maximum fine $2000".

Think to yourself?!?!?!?! ITS A SCHOOL BUS WITH CHILDREN! Should I pass it when the lights are flashing? Because my broke [censored] can't pay the fine and the 7 points, or should I just OBEY THE LAW and wait my turn! </div></div>

You just don't get it but no surprise there. The question was should the fine be based on your income ...meaning people with higher income paying a higher fine. </div></div>


I answered your question, no big surprise that you just skipped and not read it.

"No the fines, to keep it fair, should be the same price for everyone."

1337
10-26-2007, 11:54 PM
A 50" plasma screen tv, should poor people pay less because they make less? And rich people pay more, because they earn more?

A fine is a fine, $400 for littering. Both rich and poor know this, if they litter, they both pay $400, if you can't afford it then don't litter.

Same with speeding, or passing a bus, if you can't fork out the $2000 fine, THEN DON'T BREAK THE LAW.

1337
10-26-2007, 11:55 PM
To answer your question again. NO, it should be even across the board.

You are just adding to the social discrimination!

10-26-2007, 11:57 PM
Just get drunk, export is my beer tonight.

Macs II
10-26-2007, 11:57 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: T-pot</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Macs</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: T-pot</div><div class="ubbcode-body">So if your travelling behind a school bus, and see "Maximum fine $2000".

Think to yourself?!?!?!?! ITS A SCHOOL BUS WITH CHILDREN! Should I pass it when the lights are flashing? Because my broke [censored] can't pay the fine and the 7 points, or should I just OBEY THE LAW and wait my turn! </div></div>

You just don't get it but no surprise there. The question was should the fine be based on your income ...meaning people with higher income paying a higher fine. </div></div>


I answered your question, no big surprise that you just skipped and not read it.

"No the fines, to keep it fair, should be the same price for everyone." </div></div>

well ....how come property taxes arent all the same ...bigger the house more you pay ...if you can afford a big house you can afford to pay more taxes on it. Why not do the same with fines so they would have the same affect on the law breakers.

she
10-26-2007, 11:57 PM
In some cases a judge will lower a fine and add on community service hours for a person with a lower income.

1337
10-26-2007, 11:58 PM
Bigger the house, bigger the lot, bigger taxes.

1337
10-26-2007, 11:59 PM
Also, property taxes go buy neighbouring houses, and the area. Nice houses, bigger prices, bigger taxes.

Nicer TV's, bigger the price, bigger the repair costs and so on.

Your compairing apples and oranges.

she
10-27-2007, 12:03 AM
I read about movie stars breaking the law all the time. (I know they are in the paper cause they a famous) They are rich, can afford great lawyers. I would like to see them paying heftier fines than the average joe blow. Just my opinion.

Macs II
10-27-2007, 12:03 AM
the question was still about fines ....$100.00 ticket is a lot to low income people and they will learn from it ...while the rich don't even care about it and just laugh at it. They have always done this in Europe. I just read about a millionaire who got a $18.000 speeding ticket. Sure its still nothing to him but it's better than a $100.00 ticket.

1337
10-27-2007, 12:04 AM
Who cares. If the fine calls for a $100 ticket, you pay it.

Regardless if you have $1.00 in your bank, or $1,000,000.00 sitting there.

Yet again, Social Discrimination. You are discriminating against certain people in certain lifestyles.

italiandomino
10-27-2007, 12:06 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Macs</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: The 6th Member Of AC/DC</div><div class="ubbcode-body">You break the law you pay the fine... </div></div>

Thats not what I meant ....In Europe fines are based on your income ...more you make, more you pay. But it's also the same percentage for everyone. </div></div>

this isn't Europe is it

Babzz
10-27-2007, 12:06 AM
makes a lot of sense to me macs..

Macs II
10-27-2007, 12:07 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: italiandomino</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Macs</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: The 6th Member Of AC/DC</div><div class="ubbcode-body">You break the law you pay the fine... </div></div>

Thats not what I meant ....In Europe fines are based on your income ...more you make, more you pay. But it's also the same percentage for everyone. </div></div>

this isn't Europe is it </div></div>

Nope...it was just a question why not do it here too

1337
10-27-2007, 12:07 AM
Makes sense, that they would do that. But your just adding to the problem.


The fine isn't there to teach a lesson, it is another way for them to get money.

Look at the bottom line, DON'T BREAK THE LAW.

Babzz
10-27-2007, 12:09 AM
Sure its to teach you a lesson..
I was speeding and got a fine.
I do not want to pay another fine. lesson learnt.

Macs II
10-27-2007, 12:13 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Babzz</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Sure its to teach you a lesson..
I was speeding and got a fine.
I do not want to pay another fine. lesson learnt. </div></div>

That is right .that is the purpose of a fine ..try to remind you not to do it again. However a $50.00 speeding ticket has no affect on a rich person....so to be fair they should pay lot more to have the same affect as the ticket has on a poor person.

10-27-2007, 12:17 AM
Macs, got your point. But why am I paying so much freakin tax. For people who dont want to work, I pay for tax on things I will never benfit from, blah, blah, blah.

Babzz
10-27-2007, 12:17 AM
I have a agree on that one
50 or 100 bucks would be a lot for me right now..

three years ago it was nothing. I would have paid it and not thought much about.
I have been on both sides of this fence!

Macs II
10-27-2007, 12:18 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Im a slave</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Macs, got your point. But why am I paying so much freakin tax. For people who dont want to work, I pay for tax on things I will never benfit from, blah, blah, blah. </div></div>

I wish I had an answer to that one ...I've been wondering the same thing myself

1337
10-27-2007, 12:22 AM
I love that old saying "If you want to eat, you have to work" turned more into "*yawn* why worry?"

Macs II
10-27-2007, 12:27 AM
Let's not turn this into another welfare thread.

1337
10-27-2007, 12:30 AM
Oh i'm not. If I were too, I'd add the "Welfare Speeding ticket Bonus", once a month you get $200 to pay off fines /ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif

10-27-2007, 12:34 AM
You know, sometimes I envy people on welfare. They do not have a care in the world. They do what they want when ever they want.
But they sure will whine if something doesnt go their way.
But the working man, or woman, has to work, always some kind of stress.

I would like to see the day in the life of a person on social assistance who actually could have a job, but chooses to be a lazy bum.

I realize some people cannot work and require assistance. But some people are useless.

1337
10-27-2007, 12:35 AM
Not a care in the world???

Watch the thread "Consistant letter carrier" thread pop up, if they are late with your cheque!

Babzz
10-27-2007, 12:36 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Im a slave</div><div class="ubbcode-body">You know, sometimes I envy people on welfare. They do not have a care in the world. They do what they want when ever they want.
But they sure will whine if something doesnt go their way.
But the working man, or woman, has to work, always some kind of stress.

I would like to see the day in the life of a person on social assistance who actually could have a job, but chooses to be a lazy bum.

I realize some people cannot work and require assistance. But some people are useless. </div></div>

Have you ever had the stress of not being able to pay your PUC bill. Get out the blankets kids. We are not heating the house until we really have too.
How bout that new coat your son or daughter needs. Or perhaps needing a bag of milk and not having the cash for it??
Try that on for a while!!

1337
10-27-2007, 12:39 AM
I'm sorry, not to sound like a mean old sun of a beyotch. But I refuse to have myself EVER in that position.

Babzz
10-27-2007, 12:44 AM
Sometimes life deals you [censored] and things happen. I never thought I would be in this position either.. But it does happen!
Until you live it, you never will understand what its like! all those little extra's that come once in a while. All they do is help you catch up on things.. Its a vicious circle!

sorry son. No we can not go the show.
Maybe next month we can get those new boots you need..

Where I am is a stepping stone til things are worked out, but trust me. Its not easy!!!!

sorry for the hyjack macs

10-27-2007, 12:45 AM
babbz, did you read what I said?
People who choose not to work, choose not to work, I will say it again. People who choose not to work.
PERIOD!

1337
10-27-2007, 12:47 AM
I grew up a welfare baby, and this was my attitude.

I know exactly what it was like. Not having new clothes for the winter or new school clothes.

Asking my mom for some money to goto the fair, when she says she has none, then seeing her goto the bar that night.

I know exactly how it is, I have been there, done that, wish I could've afford the t-shirt!

But yet again I *REFUSE* to let this happen to me, or my daughter. I stayed in school, finished, got a kickass great paying job now!

I know crap happens, and life deals you the cards, but you play them to the best.

If I were ever to lose my job now, You'd see me at Tim hortons serving you coffee in the morning, and bagging your groceries at night, and driving you home at night in the cab, Untill i can get back on my feet!

I find no excuse to just give up.

Babzz
10-27-2007, 12:48 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Im a slave</div><div class="ubbcode-body">babbz, did you read what I said?
People who choose not to work, choose not to work, I will say it again. People who choose not to work.
PERIOD! </div></div>

And the ones that are not working due to circumstances still go from month to month worring about providing for thier kids!!

Dreamin
10-27-2007, 01:00 AM
Macs, I understood what you were saying in the first post. I think it's a good idea.

Guest
10-27-2007, 03:42 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: T-pot</div><div class="ubbcode-body">A 50" plasma screen tv, should poor people pay less because they make less? And rich people pay more, because they earn more?

A fine is a fine, $400 for littering. Both rich and poor know this, if they litter, they both pay $400, if you can't afford it then don't litter.

Same with speeding, or passing a bus, if you can't fork out the $2000 fine, THEN DON'T BREAK THE LAW.

</div></div>So what you're saying is that the following scenario is ok:

"I make $500,000.00 a year, so seeing as the 2 grand is peanuts to me, I'll just go ahead and break the law, seeing as it won't really puit a dent in my pocketbook."

Now if that 2 grand fine was geared to his income, and would be, for example, 20 grand instead, he may think differently.

Miles From Nowhere
10-27-2007, 06:16 AM
Fines are higher for corporations that break environmental laws for example. Why? Because they make a lot more, that's why (sorry about starting a sentence with "because"...) I completely agree with Macs that fines should be geared to income. Fines are set as a punishment and as much I would love to argue that taxes are a punishment as well, it makes no sense at all to compare fines to taxes or big screen TV's.

Babzz
10-27-2007, 10:28 AM
The Paris Hilton's of the world will think twice then before breaking any laws

1337
10-27-2007, 10:51 AM
So this is a jealousy thing? That they make more money?

Why not concentrate on stopping crime all together, instead of giving in and just adjust the fines?

tormented
10-27-2007, 10:52 AM
So how would they determine this then, would you be required to show your income tax statement in order to determine the amount of the fine you should be paying? In essence it sounds good but think of the paper work it would require....course that would create a new job for someone! LOL

NoName
10-27-2007, 11:01 AM
Unless the richer person broke the law more so than a poor person (they ran the light and hit someone's kid vs a poor person who did not hit anyone), there is no reason for someone to have to pay more just because they make more. If someone is unhapppy about everyone paying the same fine, then they should not break the law, so they don't have to pay any fine at all...

Babzz
10-27-2007, 11:02 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: T-pot</div><div class="ubbcode-body">So this is a jealousy thing? That they make more money?

Why not concentrate on stopping crime all together, instead of giving in and just adjust the fines? </div></div>

Its not a jealousy thing at all.
This will help stop crime in my opinion.
People or corporations with huge amounts of money sometimes think they are above the law.

blueeyedgirl
10-27-2007, 11:18 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Im a slave</div><div class="ubbcode-body">You know, sometimes I envy people on welfare. They do not have a care in the world. They do what they want when ever they want.
But they sure will whine if something doesnt go their way.
But the working man, or woman, has to work, always some kind of stress.

I would like to see the day in the life of a person on social assistance who actually could have a job, but chooses to be a lazy bum.

I realize some people cannot work and require assistance. But some people are useless. </div></div>

Those on OW have stress just as much as the working people. And to add a bit more to some of your other posts. WHen you file your taxes and income tax time based on your income and the tax breaks you would qualify for, you can get back up to a few thousand where as someone on OW will only get back a few hundred.

Now to get back to the origional post. I think fines where intended to give punish for breaking the law. How is it going to punish the rich if it is peanuts to them?

1337
10-27-2007, 11:51 AM
Those on OW don't have an income, so what taxes have they paid?

There is people on OW that get income tax refunds, when they have no income! So how can you get back a INCOME refund, when you have no income?

I paid about 13g's just into income tax last year, and 300 more at filing.

So that means OW person pays more of a fine than me?

Karen-Annie
10-27-2007, 12:28 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: T-pot</div><div class="ubbcode-body">No the fines, to keep it fair, should be the same price for everyone. </div></div>

But the point is.....THAT is not fair.It penalizes a low income earner far more than a middle to high income earner.You can go on and on about "Don't commit a crime" but in life c*r*a*p happens.It is an EXTREMELY rare individual who can go through life and NEVER breach some law or another(whether they're caught or not is another matter).We always complain about slap-on- wrist penalties.Fines for upper income earners are more like a feather stroke on the hand.

1337
10-27-2007, 12:51 PM
Why commit the crime if you can't pay?

1337
10-27-2007, 12:52 PM
Obey speeding limits, don't steal, don't murder, don't sell/do drugs, don't rape, don't kidnap, don't hussle and so on.

Is that so hard of a task?

KDawg
10-27-2007, 01:06 PM
If someone gets fined, it's because they committed an act they shouldn't have (speeding, littering, etc). The fine is there to punish the ACT, not the PERSON (in a free country anyway).

I agree with T-Pot -- one act, one fine. Anything more than that, and it's called social engineering.

KDawg
10-27-2007, 01:13 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: T-pot</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Obey speeding limits, don't steal, don't murder, don't sell/do drugs, don't rape, don't kidnap, don't hussle and so on.

Is that so hard of a task? </div></div>

Looks like you have it all figured out.

1337
10-27-2007, 01:22 PM
Well, i don't speed, so I don't get speeding tickets. In this threads case with the $2000 fine, I don't pass school bus while the lights are on, so I don't have to worry.

Most people are saying, it isn't going to stop rich people from doing it, because $2000 is nothign to them.

BFLPE
10-27-2007, 01:26 PM
I don't agree with punishing a person for being more successful. The fine should based on the crime, not the persons wealth.

The Chronic Liar
10-27-2007, 02:13 PM
Fines should be the same across the board. Its the fair thing to do. If you don't have money...dont break the law. Its pretty simple. If a rich person runs a school bus light they are getting 2000 bucks but also losing like 7 points from their license. One of the perks of being successful is fines don't hurt you as much. Thats life. And if we're just talking parking tickets...who cares. If we're talking speeding tickets sure they can pay those but they can only do it to a certain point. Eventually they would lose all their points anyway and that means no more license.