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nibiish
10-29-2007, 12:02 AM
For the past 10 years this has been a relatively peaceful forest, hugging the river from the end of River Road to Bell's point.

The Shunock plan is to develop 39 1 acre lots (on well and septic beds) and a private boat launch abutting Garden River at Bell's Point. Many of the local residents, who own shallow wells (<50ft) are concerned that a dropping water table and heavy pesticide usage will destroy the shallow wells they rely upon.

Furthermore, Garden River claims this land as historically theirs due to a surveying "error" made in 1853, 3 years after the Robinson Huron Treaty was signed that stipulated the western boundary of Garden River as "Partridge Point" and ten miles "due north" inland.

The consensus is that Partridge point is the present location of Air Dale at the base of Dacey Road. The 1853 survey was done by a Mr. Keating who happened to have a friend with a rich mine "The Clark Location" that was due north of Partridge Point. Rather than draw the boundary north from Partridge point, he decided to strike out in a North-Easterly direction, thus ensuring that his friend's mining location was outside the boundary of Garden River.

In 1902, when the River Road extension was settled by residents of Sault Ste. Marie, Garden River sent a delegation to Ottawa to complain about inadequate compensation for lands that were "ceded" in a questionable manner. To this date it is questionable at best that these matters have been resolved. In fact, one researcher has stated that the precursor the the present day Sault Ste. Marie Chamber of Commerce had petitioned the Government of Canada to "dissolve the Garden River Reservation" as it impeads the expansion of Sault Ste Marie to the East. To my knowledge this petition has never been formally rescinded.

I know of several Garden River members who are just becoming aware of this issue and fear that some sort of protest will be forthcoming if these matters are not resolve peacefully.

SIMBA
10-29-2007, 12:29 AM
Here we go........

Macs II
10-29-2007, 01:51 AM
well I don't know ...but what I do know is natives are nothing but trouble most of the time.

Koss
10-29-2007, 02:04 AM
Boy do I get tired from hearing from Macs. Why is he still around here? Sad thing is he thinks he's smart.

Macs II
10-29-2007, 02:05 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Koss</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Boy do I get tired from hearing from Macs. Why is he still around here? Sad thing is he thinks he's smart. </div></div>

I guess it's nice to live in a dream world....maybe try and join us in a real world. There are different religions,political views,races, views .....you don't ban or get rid of someone because they don't always agree with you or share your views.

Koss
10-29-2007, 02:18 AM
People are people, and if you think that you have any more impact on the universe than anyone else, then you, sir, are in the dream world.

Macs II
10-29-2007, 02:24 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Koss</div><div class="ubbcode-body">People are people, and if you think that you have any more impact on the universe than anyone else, then you, sir, are in the dream world. </div></div>

I will always speak my mind . ..you don't like it ..ignore it.

GRUMPY
10-29-2007, 08:39 AM
Yes Macs has a right to state his opinions no matter how stupid they are!

b&aMom
10-29-2007, 08:52 AM
IMHO, if there is a boundary dispute, it should be settled before any homes are built. It would hardly be fair if the treaty actually has the boundary on land that homes were built on, and it could have been avoided. Not fair to the band, not fair to the homeowners. Lose, lose all the way around. Settle that, then build away. But in building, remember that you have to live with your neighbours, so make sure you're not sucking up someone else's drinking water.

As for trail use, if it's not your land, and it's not city land for public use, suck it up. Trespassing.

Super Gram
10-29-2007, 09:26 AM
Even tho I am not a native Canadian I agree with them. Wells

can be hurt. That is now happening on Lake Superior. But since the city knows ziltch about anything. It will probably go up. If you notice it's on the waterfront and only people with lots of money can afford them.

Verotik
10-29-2007, 10:13 AM
lol the new 4 lane THROUGH the reserve is gonna get all blocked up with burnt up school busses.

A*lil*Loopy
10-29-2007, 10:21 AM
I believe that nibiish makes some very good input. Any land disputes should or rather need to be settled prior to any clearing of the land. I personally know what it's like to have your well water altered because of others, it's not very comfortable.

Is it possible to find out if the current Chamber of Commerce has any old records regarding the petition? Funny though, how things disappear when questions are asked.

I actually thought that area was part of Garden River.

You'll have to learn to ignore Macs nibiish, he's got issues that nobody can figure out. And would rather not even delve into it.

EyelashExtensions
10-29-2007, 10:41 AM
Shunocks new home has already been built in the east end I believe they are finishing the interior now. If there was some error way back when about the land I could see a settlement maybe of some kind. I don't recall there being many homes between where his house is built and Bell's point. If they are going to build homes they may add to the water/sewage lines that come from the city which may open up an opportunity for city water/sewage usage. Everything around here is being developed lately.

sadielou
10-29-2007, 05:43 PM
So, what exactly are you implying?

1337
10-29-2007, 05:48 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Koss</div><div class="ubbcode-body">People are people, and if you think that you have any more impact on the universe than anyone else, then you, sir, are in the dream world.</div></div>

In this case the natives want more impact, are you going to tell them that they are just like everyone else?


I think it is good if they want to developed the east end, what is wrong with that? If it is their land, let them do it. On the other hand, staging a protest or any other sortment is disgusting.

Super Gram
10-29-2007, 05:57 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> If they are going to build homes they may add to the water/sewage lines that come from the city which may open up an opportunity for city water/sewage usage. Everything around here is being developed lately. </div></div>

Septic beds are being put in.Won't bother the St. Marys River sewrage system and it won't smell either

EyelashExtensions
10-29-2007, 06:49 PM
Oh I thought they were building over septic beds already there....It wouldn't make sense to put in wells if there was a concern of pesticides or those wells would be contaminated too.

sage
10-29-2007, 07:20 PM
I have never heard of this information concerning Bells Point considering my family owns that property from the city limits down to the bridge and back to St.Mary's.
Who is this Shunock person?

Super Gram
10-29-2007, 07:27 PM
The only thing I know is that George Shunock has built a big home in the east end of the city. Other than that I know nothing else.

kitty&mimi
10-29-2007, 07:55 PM
where exactly did this person build a home?

sage
10-29-2007, 09:06 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> Disputed east-end subdivision recommended; Residents, Garden River ring alarm about water, fish habitat
Posted By Elaine Della-Mattia
Posted 2 days ago

City planners recommend approval of a contentious estate-lot subdivision between Fournier Road and the city's eastern limit.

The application, twice deferred by city council since August, has set off alarm bells among nearby residents and Garden River First Nation, which is adjacent to the subject property.

Participants in several neighbourhood meetings raised questions about access, water quality and quantity, storm drainage, wetlands, fish habitat and shoreline management.

The proposed 39-lot subdivision on the south side of Trunk Road stretches to the St. Mary's River. Lot sizes vary but average .55 ha (1.36 acres). The property mostly is vacant, having only two single-detached dwellings.

The applicants, Jane Eva Hedlund, Catherine Shunock, Frank Shunock and an Ontario Limited numbered company, propose a subdivision that maintains as much as possible the area's trees and other natural vegetation.

The property has been used as an informal park and includes a network of trails used by both motorized and non-motorized traffic. The development does not include the required park space. Neighbours suggested use of the five-per-cent cash in lieu of parkland toward building a non-motorized trail to the St. Mary's River and a few parking spaces. The development includes a private boat launch and private outdoor storage area for subdivision residents.

The developer has also asked for rezoning of a portion of the property fronting on Trunk Road, from industrial to highway commercial.

The Conservation Authority welcomes the addition of the boat launch as a way to reduce the need for individual docking and to soften the impact on water life.

City planners note the storage facility would be subject to site plan reviews.

Some area neighbours questioned the effect of the subdivision on their well water supply and quality.

To alleviate their concerns, the developer promises a well draw from a deep aquifer that experts say will not impact existing wells on the shallow aquifer they draw from.

City Planning Director Don McConnell says the two aquifers in the area have a hard layer between them that will separate the water supply to existing homes and the supply to the homes in the planned subdivision.

PUC earlier said the city's water supply, which also comes from the deep aquifer, will not be at risk from the draw of 39 more homes.

Algoma Public Health has completed testing in answer to concerns raised about water quality and nitrate-loading of the aquifer and nearby private wells from new septic systems. Results indicate the level of nitrates at individual property boundaries will be well below maximum acceptable limits.

McConnell said Garden River First Nation was notified of the application in early August.

A letter from the band's lawyer complains of a lack of consultation with her client. It also notes the property is part of a land claim now before the courts. The band filed a lawsuit several years ago in a dispute over the reserve's westerly boundary as defined in the Robinson-Huron Treaty of 1850.

That boundary is described as extending 10 miles north from Partridge Point, on the St. Mary's River west of Bells Point, in the area of Falldien Road.

The boundary used in government documentation extends from a point farther east.

Garden River says the boundary was drawn incorrectly in an 1853 survey. It wants recognition of the historical western boundary and $100 million in compensation.

The band also raised concerns with the subdivision's off-site environmental impact, specifically possible adverse effects on fishing, flora and fauna integral to aboriginal culture.

McConnell's lengthy report to council recommends approval of the zoning application and the draft subdivision plan, with more than a dozen conditions.</div></div>

As for protests - bah~. /ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/whistle.gif ..does nothing but perpetuate animosity( as you can plainly see with some of the derogatory posts).
I think with awareness and assertive negotiations for all parties including the Algoma Health Unit, residents of the area and GR First Nations it can be negotiated.

1337
10-29-2007, 09:36 PM
That is for sure.

If the land is owned by the natives, let them decide. This following statement is not intended to be racist, but take it as you want. Staging a protest, is not the way to accomplish things. No one said there was going to be one, it was just lightly mentioned, but if the land is on the reserve, then make the negotiations properly to come to a proper conclusion.

Macs II
10-29-2007, 09:54 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: T-pot</div><div class="ubbcode-body">That is for sure.

If the land is owned by the natives, let them decide. This following statement is not intended to be racist, but take it as you want. Staging a protest, is not the way to accomplish things. No one said there was going to be one, it was just lightly mentioned, but if the land is on the reserve, then make the negotiations properly to come to a proper conclusion. </div></div>

The city can not approve a subdivision on reserve so the land must not belong to a reserve. So in that case there is no problem.

J*B
10-29-2007, 10:06 PM
That parcel of land is in dispute, but apparently someone doesn't care..

dancingqueen
10-29-2007, 11:00 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Macs</div><div class="ubbcode-body">well I don't know ...but what I do know is natives are nothing but trouble most of the time. </div></div>

Macs, If you don't have anything nice to say about the thread, don't say anything at all.

On that note, in regards to the issue here....
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... That is all

Macs II
10-29-2007, 11:02 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: dancingqueen</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Macs</div><div class="ubbcode-body">well I don't know ...but what I do know is natives are nothing but trouble most of the time. </div></div>

Macs, If you don't have anything nice to say about the thread, don't say anything at all.

On that note, in regards to the issue here....
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... That is all </div></div>

So you're saying you can not comment unless you have something nice to say ? ......dream on

sadielou
10-29-2007, 11:05 PM
Naw, go ahead and talk out of arse all ya want most people don't pay you any attention anyway MACS

Macs II
10-29-2007, 11:12 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: meechy</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Naw, go ahead and talk out of arse all ya want most people don't pay you any attention anyway MACS </div></div>

well why are you replying to me then ...obviously you do pay an attention http://i134.photobucket.com/albums/q104/Macs20006/sidesplit.gif

dancingqueen
10-29-2007, 11:13 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Macs</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: dancingqueen</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Macs</div><div class="ubbcode-body">well I don't know ...but what I do know is natives are nothing but trouble most of the time. </div></div>

Macs, If you don't have anything nice to say about the thread, don't say anything at all.

On that note, in regards to the issue here....
.
.
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... That is all </div></div>

So you're saying you can not comment unless you have something nice to say ? ......dream on </div></div>

do you even have a sence of humor?

Macs II
10-29-2007, 11:14 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: dancingqueen</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Macs</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: dancingqueen</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Macs</div><div class="ubbcode-body">well I don't know ...but what I do know is natives are nothing but trouble most of the time. </div></div>

Macs, If you don't have anything nice to say about the thread, don't say anything at all.

On that note, in regards to the issue here....
.
.
.
.
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.
.
.
.
.
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... That is all </div></div>

So you're saying you can not comment unless you have something nice to say ? ......dream on </div></div>

do you even have a sence of humor? </div></div>

Depends

1337
10-29-2007, 11:17 PM
Well, I'm shooting myself for saying this. But Mac's has every right to post what he thinks here.

Read the label under "SOAPBOX"

http://members.shaw.ca/tpot/opinion.JPG

VOICE YOUR OPINION

Opinion : a personal view, attitude, or appraisal.

That means good or bad, he has a right to post on here. Doesn't have to be to your liking.

dancingqueen
10-29-2007, 11:21 PM
Well, my stance on Native land has always been the same, I don't think something that happened so many years ago should still be seperating us fellow Canadians. I am all for anything that will elp expand Sault Ste. Marie, and against anything that would stand in its way unless it prooved to be a danger to the welbeing of it's residents. Building more homes is not a bad thing and is ctually needed in this slowly but surly growing city. People that want to hold development back should go live in the forest or something, because expansion is what a city is all about. Period.

dancingqueen
10-29-2007, 11:22 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: T-pot</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Well, I'm shooting myself for saying this. But Mac's has every right to post what he thinks here.

Read the label under "SOAPBOX"

http://members.shaw.ca/tpot/opinion.JPG

VOICE YOUR OPINION

Opinion : a personal view, attitude, or appraisal.

That means good or bad, he has a right to post on here. Doesn't have to be to your liking. </div></div>

OH MY GOD PEOPLE! IT WAS A JOKE!
/ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/cry.gif
I probably should have put that comment in the joke section

KWB
10-29-2007, 11:22 PM
You need spell Check

1337
10-29-2007, 11:23 PM
Well that is why there is a joke section.

Without the standard "j/k" at the end of a comment, people take it seriously /ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif

dancingqueen
10-29-2007, 11:24 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: KWB</div><div class="ubbcode-body">You need spell Check </div></div>

not this crap again....
My opinion still matters even if I have a sticky keyboard, so, please try to stay on topic.

**ALERT, ALERT, the spelling police are out, your comments are invalid unless you spell correct**

Macs II
10-29-2007, 11:25 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: T-pot</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Well, I'm shooting myself for saying this. But Mac's has every right to post what he thinks here.

Read the label under "SOAPBOX"

http://members.shaw.ca/tpot/opinion.JPG

VOICE YOUR OPINION

Opinion : a personal view, attitude, or appraisal.

That means good or bad, he has a right to post on here. Doesn't have to be to your liking. </div></div>

That is correct ...I don't attack anyone personally (or at least I try not to) ...I just have different views and opinions. I have never followed the popular crowds or opinions.

1337
10-29-2007, 11:27 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: dancingqueen</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: KWB</div><div class="ubbcode-body">You need spell Check </div></div>

not this crap again....
My opinion still matters even if I have a sticky keyboard, so, please try to stay on topic.

**ALERT, ALERT, the spelling police are out, your comments are invalid unless you spell correct**</div></div>

Stay away from websites that have more than 1 x in the name, and you won't have one LOL j/k &lt;-- See how I define it as a joke /ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif

1337
10-29-2007, 11:27 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: KWB</div><div class="ubbcode-body">You need spell Check</div></div>

You, need grammar check.

Missed a comma, and forgot a period.

Do unto others, brother.

Macs II
10-29-2007, 11:28 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: dancingqueen</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: T-pot</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Well, I'm shooting myself for saying this. But Mac's has every right to post what he thinks here.

Read the label under "SOAPBOX"

http://members.shaw.ca/tpot/opinion.JPG

VOICE YOUR OPINION

Opinion : a personal view, attitude, or appraisal.

That means good or bad, he has a right to post on here. Doesn't have to be to your liking. </div></div>

OH MY GOD PEOPLE! IT WAS A JOKE!
/ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/cry.gif
I probably should have put that comment in the joke section </div></div>

It's cool ...forget it /ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif

dancingqueen
10-29-2007, 11:29 PM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: T-pot</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: KWB</div><div class="ubbcode-body">You need spell Check</div></div>

You, need grammar check.

Missed a comma, and forgot a period.

Do unto others, brother. </div></div>

and can anyone explain why the "C" on check is capitalized? is this some new crazy form of grammar? /ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/lol.gif
something about a pot calling a kettle black is coming to mind. /ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/shocked.gif

Barney Rubble
10-29-2007, 11:39 PM
al eye ken say iz anibode hoo worrees about speling ken go [censored] themselfs!!!

Guest
10-30-2007, 01:03 AM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Macs</div><div class="ubbcode-body">well I don't know ...but what I do know is natives are nothing but trouble most of the time. </div></div>Now there's a bad generalization.

That's like saying all people of African descent like fried chicken and watermelon. That's like saying that all people of Chinese descent are bad drivers and cook cats for dinner. That's like saying that all people of Jewish descent are penny pinchers. And that all people of Indian (as in "India") descent work in 7-Eleven stores. And that all people of muslim beliefs are terrorists. And that people of....

I think you get my point.

For someone to make an unsubstantiated, blanket-statement like that to describe people of a certain nationality in this day and age is disgusting and uncalled for.

The people I've met since staying with my g/f on the reserve have been a lot nicer than a lot of people I've met that live in town. Her kids are better raised than a lot in town too. When you get elderly people telling you to your face in public that your kids are very well mannered and well behaved, and respectful, you know you're raising them correctly. But that's another totally different topic that I won't get into here.

As far as I'm concerned, nothing should be done with the parcel of land until the boundary dispute is settled to the satisfaction of the two parties involved. If there was a surveying "error" made in 1853, then it should be corrected. There's plenty of room for the city to expand in the north and west directions.

lexilou
10-30-2007, 09:20 AM
George did not build that home on River Road. That's Jane and Frank's home.

Jane, Frank and Cathy are very fair people. Frank and Jane have been renting out those houses at city limits for quite a few years. They know what they are doing. I'm sure they would not foolishly build a subdivision upon land that may/may not be theirs. And in doing so, it will be done properly with the neighbours in mind.