While the "Lemmings Sleep"

[Chris R]

9/11 and the Greenberg Familia [and the attack on our economy

Group: alt.discuss.clubs.public.issues.politics.restore_a merica Date: Sun, Dec 31, 2006, 10:15pm (EST-3) From: Rosebudv@webtv.net
**9/11 and the Greenberg Familia [and the attack on our economy From: Vicky Davis *
Background -
On November 9, 2001, George Bush signed a trade agreement with India for technology and knowledge industries.* More than any other agreement, that one was like a knife in the heart of America's economy.*
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In the 1990's roughly 65% of our economy was in knowledge jobs.* After the agreement, a huge percentage of those jobs were exported to India and - insult to injury, massive numbers of visas were issued to allow the import of Indians for technology jobs.*
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The way it works is that the Indians come over here - learn the systems and then the systems are exported to India.* Silicon Valley is now in India.*
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The following are just a few of the articles I've collected over these years.*
http://www.channelingreality.com/Economic/India.htm *
The curious thing has always been that George Bush related the signing of that agreement to terrorism plus the date is the inverse of 9-11.* This agreement dwarfs in magnitude the attack*on our economy on 9-11.*
*
http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/relea...011109-10.html *
On this webpage, on the left hand panel under the picture of Vajpayee and Bush, you can read about the initiative.* All the industries mentions were the industries and jobs at the high end of our economy.* *
http://www.channelingreality.com/The...admin_coup.htm *
One of the hyperlinks I have is to a Press Release: *
http://www.channelingreality.com/Ind...se_Clinton.htm
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The U.S.-India Business Council and the Federation of Indian Chamber of Commerce and Industry (FICCI) are pleased to announce the Knowledge Trade Forum, the culminating event of the Knowledge Trade Initiative (KTI), to be held in Bangalore, India, November 29-30, 2001. *
snip*
The Forum will pull together key industry and government stakeholders from India and the U.S. focusing on knowledge-based industries. The American delegation will be led by USIBC Chairman Ambassador Frank Wisner, Vice-Chairman AIG, and Chairman of the Knowledge Trade Initiative, Dean O'Hare, CEO of The Chubb Corporation. *
A "Hollywood meets Bollywood" extravaganza
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will kick off the proceedings on November 29th, followed by a full day of events on November 30th focusing in particular on four tracks: IT services, biotechnology, e-entertainment, and bridging the digital divide. Workshops will take place throughout the day on topics including: accessing venture capital, entrepreneurial success stories, and proven paths to success in the IT outsourcing space. There will also be a contest for the most innovative way to deliver communications access, with an award of $10,000 going to the winner as determined by a distinguished international panel.
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The Forum will also provide the backdrop for the presentation of the final report of the KTI. The KTI has formed a series of working groups to consider key policy areas that affect the trade in knowledge-based products and services. Over 150 international experts in each of their fields have met regularly over the past months coming up with policy recommendations for India and the U.S. to secure their positions as leaders of the new economy.
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Participants
http://www.channelingreality.com/Sav...rticipants.htm *
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To understand the signifigance you should be aware that*a programmer in India makes under $10,000 per year.* A programmer in the U.S. used to make about $60,000 or more per year.** The insurance industry is all about IT -*knowledge industry - information handling.*
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So for every IT job exported, they pocket $50,000 pure profit.**That's on top of the already lucrative profits of knowledge industries.*
*
http://www.channelingreality.com/Sav...background.htm *
More and more, India's workforce advantage will be replicated elsewhere. India needs to develop the hard and soft infrastructure of its IT sector in order to ensure its long-term, sustainable advantage in this sector. *
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More background - on Harris Miller, President of Information Technology Associates of America up until last year when he ran for the Senate.* *
http://www.channelingreality.com/Car...is_miller.htm* *
Harris Miller has orchestrated the destruction of our economy by working both sides of the ocean.* Initially, the export of our high technology jobs was done in secret as explained by WIPRO Chairman Azim Premji while "speaking at a seminar organised by the All India Management Association (AIMA) and Bombay Management Association (BMA)".[3] *
"Addressing management students here, Mr Premji explained that when software services were being outsourced, it was done surreptitiously. This was done because it was the requirement of that time. The industry then stood witness to a vast number of layoffs." *
One final thing that might not mean much to you, but it is incredibly significant to me.* Thomas Barnett (Pentagon's New Map) mentioned the re-insurance industry relative to 9-11.*
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The re-insurance industry is almost unknown to the public.* Only people connected with the insurance industry really know anything about re-insurance.* You have to read what I wrote about Thomas Barnett to understand the significance of his mention of the re-insurance industry.*
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Basically Barnett's thesis is that in the global economy, there is an old core and new core.*
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The U.S. and the developed countries are the old core.* China and India are the new core.* Reference Joseph Schumpter - creative destruction.* Destroying the old - to build the new.* *
http://www.channelingreality.com/The_Coup/The_Coup.htm *
*
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Barnett's mention of the re-insurance industry was in the video presentation of 'Military in the 21st Century'.* The four initiatives he mentions are all the things that are destroying our country and our economy.* That's why I transcribed the video presentation even though it was over 2 hours long:*
*
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On page 5 of the transcript
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*http://www.channelingreality.com/The...rnett_NPg5.htm *
"What happens to the financial sectors - happens to the insurance industry - happens to the re-insurance industry if you follow that interesting tail.* Spills over into the airline insurance industry so you see the merging of these horizontal scenarios." *
Barnett described Wall Street's game plan in a presentation he gave to the Industrial College of the Armed Forces.* The following is an excerpt from Barnett's presentation (note: he is a master at doublespeak).* The strategy below is the strategy to destroy the U.S.
- not the strategy for the benefit of the U.S.
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"Four elements are put together.* I'll confess, I'm an economic determinist.* I'll say that technology is the main driver of history.* If globalization continues to advance - all these good things will happen.* You can attach numbers to most of these in terms of per capita income.** Get them below a certain level and they stop doing a lot of these bad things and they start moving in the direction of these positive things.* But I'll argue we have to manage carefully four crucial flows within globalization IV.*
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Those four crucial flows meaning resources in regions where they are plentiful have to migrate to regions where they are in scarce supply.******
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The movement of people is a key flow.* The money of energy is a key flow.* The movement of money - long term, foreign direct investments - not flows in and out of stock markets, not commercial bank loans but foreign direct investment - equity ownership.* Finally, the exporting of security which only the United States can do in any appreciable manner."
*
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Special Reports
9/11 and the Greenberg Familia
By Jerry Mazza
Online Journal Associate Editor
Sep 29, 2006, 01:06
Democratic Underground Demopedia reports in Who Killed John O'Neill that at the time of 9/11, AIG, the world's largest insurance company, and subsidiaries Marsh McLennan, ACE and Kroll, were run by the Greenberg family. With Council on Foreign Relations (CFR) member Maurice "Hank" Greenberg as the AIG godfather, the Familia's tentacles curled around the heart of the tragedy.
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Hank's son Jeffrey, a CFR member as well, was chairman of Marsh & McLennan, situated on floors throughout the North Tower of the World Trade Center as well as the top floors of the South Tower. Marsh also had ties to the CIA. Son Evan Greenberg, a CFR member, was CEO of ACE Limited, situated in Tower 7, which also contained AIG subsidiary Kroll, closely related to the CIA, also with an office in Tower 7.
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Tower 7 also contained offices of the FBI, Department of Defense, IRS (which contained prodigious amounts of corporate tax fraud corporate, including Enron's), US Secret Service, Securities & Exchange Commission (with more stock fraud records), and Citibank's Salomon Smith Barney, the Mayor's Office of Emergency Management and many other financial institutions.
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Greenberg's cousin, Alan "Ace" Greenberg, was former CEO of Bear Sterns, where the Bush family, Cheney family George Schultz, James Baker, et al, did business. It is the leading brokerage firm of the great and all-powerful Bush Familia.
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Also reported by Democratic Underground, AIG's Kroll "provided protection services," among other things, to high level Americans at home and abroad. Kroll had military teams in their company and merged with Armor Holdings on August 23, 2001, adding Defence Systems Limited, another private military corporation, to their operation, and an ex-KGB team called Alpha Firm earlier acquired by Defense Systems Limited.
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These four teams could have been used on 9/11, part of a "corporatizing" of black ops in tandem with military teams.
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According to whistleblower Richard Grove, who worked as a senior manager for SilverStream Software on Marsh and AIG accounts, Kroll also managed the Enron fraud once Kenneth Lay stepped down.
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Marsh, immediately after 9/11, established a specialized terrorism team called Marsh Crisis Consultancy (led by L. Paul Bremer III), adding the teams Control Risks Group, a British ex-SAS team and Versar, bio-terrorism and homeland defense team. These players could have known each other from 9/11, bringing in new assignments and profits.
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Democratic Underground also reports, AIG allegedly was laundering drug money, and was involved in the Afghanistan oil and gas pipelines. Greenberg and the Adnan Khasshogi family allegedly benefited from the Afghanistan narcotics trade and interests in the oil and gas pipelines, as well.
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Greenberg's Law Firm Connections to Bush According to http://www.sourcewatch.org, the Greenbergs were and are connected to the Bush Familia via their Miami-based law firm Greenberg Traurig, LLP, a 1,350-lawyer, full-service international firm. Here are a few connects . . .
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{{Greenberg Traurig = Abramoff]]
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1) G-T represented George W. Bush in the Bush-Gore 2000 Florida election vote recount.
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2) They personally represent Florida Governor Jeb Bush.
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3) They hired son of Supreme Court Justice Antonin Scalia on Election Day 2000 -- after which Justice Scalia cast one of the 5 to 4 deciding votes that placed Bush in the White House.
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4) They partially funded/sponsored a delegation to Israel by House-Senate Armed Services Committee members and government contractors to witness and be briefed on interrogations resistance procedures and torture techniques.
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5) The firm has prominent administrative positions in Massachusetts 9/11 Fund, which also involves Bush family banking house Brown Brothers Harriman (the same BBH involved with Prescott Bush's bankrolling the Nazis in World War II).
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6) Traurig Greenberg works with 9-11 victims on planning their US government "hushmail/bribery estates." That is, to receive the money, the victim's family must sign an agreement never to sue the government for any reason.
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Victim-wife Ellen Mariani is currently being legally harassed for not signing and for holding the Bush government's feet to the fire.
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7) Bush still owes the Greenberg Traurig firm nearly $1 million for work done by dozens of lawyers and paralegals, leaving questions why a Republican candidate would hire a Democratic lawyer from a Democratic firm. See Greenberg Traurig link above for more scandals.
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Greenberg's Relationship to Larry Silverstein On July 24, 2001, six weeks before 9/11, Larry Silverstein took control of the lease of all the WTC buildings. This followed the Port Authority decision on April 26.
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According to democraticunderground.com, the three companies who originally insured the WTC were AIG, Marsh and ACE, all run as mentioned by the Greenbergs at the time. They then sold stakes of the original contract to their competition, a technique called reinsuring.
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Once the Towers came down, the reinsurers got caught holding the bag. This would inextricably tie the Greenbergs to Silverstein and the larger conspiracy of 9/11. If they had no foreknowledge of events to occur, why would the Greenbergs have unloaded so many stakes in their contract?
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According to Michel Chossudovsky in Financial Bonanza behind the 9/11 Tragedy, "On October 17, 2000, eleven months before 9/11, Blackstone Real Estate Advisors, of The Blackstone Group, L.P, purchased, from Teachers Insurance and Annuity Association, the participating mortgage secured by World Trade Center, Building 7.1." [Blackstone in 2000 also purchased a 50 percent stake in Universal Studios, producers of the myth-perpetuating Flight 93.]
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"April 26, 2001 the Port Authority leased the WTC for 99 years to Silverstein Properties and Westfield America Inc.
"The transaction was authorised by Port Authority Chairman Lewis M. Eisenberg. This transfer from the New York and New Jersey Port Authority was tantamount to the privatisation of the WTC Complex.
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The official press release described it as 'the richest real estate prize in New York City history.' The retail space underneath the complex was leased to Westfield America Inc.
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"On 24 July 2001, 6 weeks prior to 9/11 Silverstein took control of the lease of the WTC following the Port Authority decision on April 26. "Silverstein and Frank Lowy, CEO of Westefield Inc. took control of the 10.6 million-square-foot WTC complex.
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"Lowy leased the shopping concourse called the Mall at the WTC, which comprised about 427,000 square feet of retail space." "Explicitly included in the agreement was that Silverstein and Westfield 'were given the right to rebuild the structures if they were destroyed.''
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"In this transaction, Silverstein signed a rental contract for the WTC over 99 years amounting to 3.2 billion dollars in installments to be made to the Port Authority: 800 million covered fees including a down payment of the order of 100 million dollars. Of this amount, Silverstein put in 14 million dollars of his own money. The annual payment on the lease was of the order of 115 million dollars.
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"In the wake of the WTC attacks, Silverstein is suing for some $7.1 billion in insurance money, double the amount of the value of the 99 year lease." In fact, some $5 billion was actually returned, given the multiple court-case protests of the insurers.
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"The mortgaging of the WTC was handled by The Blackstone Group, headed by Peter J. Peterson, current head of the Council on Foreign Relations (CFR). The Blackstone Group also bought a piece of Kroll in 1993 at the very same time AIG took over majority control. Henry Kissinger sits on the board of the Blackstone Group."
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By his own admission Silverstein had Tower 7 pulled by controlled internal demolition eight hours after the first two hits. No plane hit Tower 7. There were two small fires in it that were under control. In fact, it takes weeks, months to set up a building to be pulled. So his order to "pull it" catches him in a huge lie.
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Tower 7 may have been the nexus of the operations. That may have been the real reason to pull it. In fact, it may have been set up weeks in advance with Towers 1 and 2 for demolition. Ironically, Tower 7 is the only tower that has been rebuilt, and more opulently than its predecessor, although tenancy is about 18 percent.
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Towers Taken Down for Profit and to Blame Muslims
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Given the involvement of the Greenbergs and Silverstein, and other commercial entities that stood to profit hugely, it is difficult to believe 9/11 occurred at the hands of 19 rag-tag Muslims with box-cutters and the help of their leader, Osama bin Laden, sitting in a cave somewhere in Afghanistan with his laptop and dialysis equipment.
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The real reasons behind 9/11 were financial greed and the willingness to demonize Muslims for the "Pearl Harbor-type" act that would instigate America to wage a war on terror, pursuing PNAC's (Project for a New American Century) goal of World Hegemony.
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The latest documentary on the WTC, The 911 Mysteries from 911WeKnow.com, provides highly convincing proof that the buildings were taken down in six fatal steps. They involved the use of high-powered explosives, including thermite and/or thermate, with techniques more advanced than those of traditional controlled-demolition companies, most likely the military's, given their bunker buster technology.
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The six steps are . . .
Pre-collapse sub-basement explosions
Pre-collapse interior blasts
Pre-collapse ground level explosions
Top level collapse initiation
Mid Collapse Squibs (explosions)
Final time-delayed rolls (explosions)
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Without all these steps, the Towers could never have free-fallen in 10 seconds, the speed of gravity. Any obstacles or pancaking had to be eliminated otherwise the number of seconds of fall would increase dramatically.
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The documentary also reminds us that on February 13, 1975 there was a major fire on the 11th floor of the North Tower that did not topple it, though the loss was estimated at over $2 million, no mean event. Check it out.
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It is possible that in 1996, when Securacom took over WTC security and installed a new $8.3 million security system, that the explosives and charges were also put in place.
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Sitting on the board of Securacom was the director Marvin Bush, George Bush's younger brother.
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In any case, this is patently the confluence of the military/industrial complex with a healthy dose of Wall Street, earning millions if not billions in put and call options on companies involved with the catastrophe, including airlines on the down (put) side and military suppliers on the up (call) side.
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In addition, there is the missing gold from the basement of Tower 4, $200 million of which was retrieved, and an untold amount stolen.
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The real bottom line was that the Towers were two financial white elephants. And both Silverstein and Greenberg had to know that. The tenancy was dropping. They were out of date. And most dangerously, they were __asbestos bombs, loaded with the dangerous building material when they were completed in 1972-73.
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By law the buildings could not be taken down by internal demolition. And since it would cost a billion dollars or more to take the towers down beam by beam, it would be at great loss to the Port of Authority or its leaseholder. Thus the reasons are obvious to take WTC down in act of terror also a false-flag operation.
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Remember, the concept for the WTC Towers originated with the Nelson and David Rockefeller, members of the Council on Foreign Relations and among the world's elites. A "New Pearl Harbor" would serve those interests well.
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Additional Connections to Greenberg
John O'Neill, mentioned in the first paragraph, was the FBI anti-terror chief who spent years trying to track down bin Laden and "al Qaeda" members. At every point, he was stopped or frustrated by his superiors.
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Finally, O'Neill parted company with the FBI. Jerome Hauer, who formerly worked for Kroll, got him the job as chief of security at the WTC. On 9/11, O'Neill lost his life in the North Tower. Mr. Hauer's job as Kroll chief was also held by Michael Cherkasky, who came out of the New York County District Attorney's Office, which also brought us Rudy Giuliani, Elliot Spitzer and Patrick Fitzgerald. Mr. Cherkasky also brought Mr. Spitzer into the NYC County DA's office.
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Today Cherkasky is a substantial contributor to Spitzer's campaign for New York State Governor. Cherkasky was bumped up to head Marsh McLennan in 2004.
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As an aside, there were about 200 electrical engineers working in the World Trade Center around the time. Additionally, AMEC and Tully Construction played a major role in the clean up of Ground Zero and both have specialized controlled demolition companies.
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Lastly, can you believe that one of the Council on Foreign Relations members who engaged President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad of Iran in a debate about the holocaust at CFR's reception last week was none other than Hank Greenberg, who said he witnessed the Dachau camp as Germany fell? Could it all possibly be payback and then some?

[shadowjak]

Ever wonder why, in an age when companies are sending thousands of high-wage manufacturing jobs offshore, Toyota Motor still makes Corollas in Silicon Valley--one of the most expensive places on Earth to produce goods?

The answer lies in a business principle that Toyota remembers but many others have apparently forgotten: Sending goods 500 feet in 24 hours is better than shipping them 5,000 miles across logistical and political boundaries in 25 days. But to act on this principle, a company must be efficient enough to produce its goods close to the places where they are in demand, even when labor costs are high.

For manufacturers in Europe and the United States, offshoring can make good sense. They should look carefully at their economics, however, before they send production overseas. Our experience shows that too many of them overestimate the savings to be had from going abroad and fail to recognize the problems, such as dealing with inventory, obsolescence and currency exchange rates. Unlike companies in service industries, where no physical goods change hands and wages typically represent a higher share of operating costs, many manufacturers may be better served by staying at home--particularly if they successfully implement lean-manufacturing or other initiatives that drastically lower labor's share of overall costs and speed up operations significantly.
Long lead times also stand out in the high-tech electronics industry, where the need to send products by sea can translate into price declines of 2 to 6 percent.

We recently investigated the operations and performance of companies in the state of California to gain a better understanding of the complex process they go through when deciding to offshore. The state, a massive consumer market, is a good proxy for advanced manufacturing economies around the world: Its major players and their products--from Boeing (aircraft) to Oakley (eyewear)--are diverse enough to encompass the common issues facing companies in most developed nations. Moreover, its regulatory environment is notoriously difficult. If manufacturers can produce their wares profitably in California, chances are they can do so just about anywhere else.

We found compelling evidence that in a number of cases, offshore manufacturing isn't all it's cracked up to be. One reason is that for many manufacturers, the importance of direct labor is declining rapidly. Since it often accounts for just 7 to 15 percent of the cost of goods sold, hard-goods and high-tech manufacturers often say that wage rates are hardly the most critical determinants of their overall economic performance.

Consider the case of one fashion apparel company based in Los Angeles. Its 1,500 workers, paid at rates well above the minimum wage, make casual wear in an old, multistory downtown brick warehouse. The executives view labor costs, currently 3 percent of the retail price of these goods and heading lower, as a secondary concern to the company. If it were to move its operations offshore, logistics costs might well swallow up any savings from lower wages. Another example: A consumer electronics manufacturer we interviewed has stripped away roughly 60 percent of its labor costs from production and reduced lead times from weeks to days. Even if an offshore competitor drove down its own labor costs close to zero, this manufacturer would still have an insurmountable advantage in logistics—a fact that has emboldened the company to reverse-engineer low-end Chinese goods for manufacture in California.

Since keeping plants near customers shortens lead times, it facilitates greater responsiveness to changing market conditions. The Los Angeles apparel maker can fill orders for up to 160,000 units in 24 hours, since the entire supply chain--including weaving, dyeing, and sewing—is located downtown. The company carries less than 30 days' worth of inventory and could even become a build-to-order producer. Another Los Angeles garment maker produces hand-sewn fashion accessories with a lead time of less than five days.
Since keeping plants near customers shortens lead times, it facilitates greater responsiveness to changing market conditions.

This kind of speed can be a competitive weapon--and its absence a trap. In the fashion apparel industry, with its spiky, unpredictable demand, the five-month lead times that accompany offshore production can leave manufacturers with excess inventories of fading styles or shortages of hot items. When a brief fashion craze ended before one California designer's shipment of goods had arrived from China, for instance, the company was left with a boatload of velvet knickers that could be sold only at a high discount. And with mass retailers penalizing suppliers for late orders by as much as 2 percent a day, the cost of miscalculation can be high.

Long lead times also stand out in the high-tech electronics industry, where the need to send products by sea can translate into price declines of 2 to 6 percent. It's a harsh penalty to pay, since almost every product now requires just hours or minutes to make. A high-end telecom router, for example, takes about two hours of nontest time to fabricate, while a car takes six hours, and nearly every consumer electronics device takes less than an hour to assemble. Much of the remaining lead time for these products involves waiting or reworking.
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Thermate-TH3, is an incendiary compound primarily used for military applications. Because of the similarity in names, thermate is sometimes confused with one of its components,
Thermate is a mixture of thermite and pyrotechnic additives which have been found to be superior to standard thermite for incendiary purposes. Its composition by weight is generally thermite 68.7%, barium nitrate 29.0%, sulphur 2.0% and binder 0.3%. Addition of barium nitrate to thermite increases its thermal effect, creates flame in burning and significantly reduces the ignition temperature.

Thermate is used in incendiary hand grenades
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A thermite reaction is a type of aluminothermic reaction in which aluminium metal is oxidized by the oxide of another metal, most commonly iron oxide. The name thermite is also used to refer to a mixture of two such chemicals. The products are aluminium oxide, free elemental iron, and a large amount of heat. The reactants are commonly powdered and mixed with a binder to keep the material solid and prevent separation. The reaction is used for thermite welding, often used to join rails.

Thermite grenades are used as incendiary devices to quickly destroy items or equipment when there is imminent danger of them being captured by enemy forces. Because of the difficulty in igniting standard iron-thermite, plus the fact that it burns with practically no flame and has a small radius of action, standard thermite is rarely used on its own as an incendiary composition.
It is more usually employed with other ingredients added to enhance its incendiary effects. Thermate-TH3 is a mixture of thermite and pyrotechnic additives which have been found to be superior to standard thermite for incendiary purposes. Its composition by weight is generally thermite 68.7%, barium nitrate 29.0%, sulphur 2.0% and binder 0.3%. Addition of barium nitrate to thermite increases its thermal effect, creates flame in burning and significantly reduces the ignition temperature. Although the primary purpose of Thermate-TH3 is as an incendiary, it will also weld metal surfaces together.

A classic military use for thermite is disabling artillery pieces. Thermite can be used to permanently disable artillery pieces without the use of explosive charges and therefore operate with a reasonable amount of stealth. The 2nd Ranger Battalion used thermite grenades against the German artillery at Pointe du Hoc during the Allied invasion of Normandy. There are several ways to do this. One method is to weld the breech of the weapon closed by inserting an armed thermite grenade into it and then quickly closing the breech. This makes the weapon impossible to load. An alternative method is to insert an armed thermite grenade down the muzzle of the artillery piece, fouling the barrel. This makes the piece very dangerous to fire. Yet another method is to use thermite to destroy the traversing and elevation mechanism on the cannon, making it impossible to properly aim the gun.

Once again this would not be practical in taking down large urban targets.
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A squib is a small explosive device which has a wide range of uses, such as generating mechanical forces as well as in pyrotechnic use. A squib can range in size from 2 to 15 millimetres in diameter. The squib, being an explosive device, releases a lot of energy, and can be used for shattering, triggering, propelling and cutting a wide range of materials.

It is different from a detonator, which is used specifically to trigger a larger explosive. A squib may indeed be energetic enough to initiate high explosives, but that is not its primary purpose. A squib is also not an electric match, which produces only a flash of flame and is used to ignite pyrotechnics and fireworks.

Squibs are widely used in the motion picture special effects industry to simulate a bullet hit from a gun firing blanks. The squib is coupled with a condom or balloon of fake blood (and sometimes chunks of sponge to thicken it) for hits on persons. For hits on ricochets off other objects, items such as dust and small rocks or wood splinters are attached to the squib.

In aviation, squibs are used to generate pressurised gas to open valves and operate small mechanical devices such as those found on ejection seats, and to pierce frangible disks that are retaining pressurised liquids such as halon and fluorocarbon extinguishants, or release compressed nitrogen gas to act as a propellant.

On its own it would not be used for destruction.
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Bunker Busters
More recently the US has developed a series of custom made bombs to penetrate hardened or deeply buried structures.
There are thousands of military facilities around the world that defy conventional attack. Caves in Afghanistan burrow into mountainsides, and immense concrete bunkers lie buried deep in the sand in Iraq. These hardened facilities house command centers, ammunition depots and research labs that are either of strategic importance or vital to waging war. Because they are underground, they are hard to find and extremely difficult to strike.

These bombs have made it possible to reach and destroy facilities that would have been impossible to attack otherwise.

Penetration of reinforced concrete: 1.8 m (6 ft) BLU-109 Penetrator GBU-10, GBU-15, GBU-24, GBU-27, AGM-130

Penetration of reinforced concrete: 3.4 m (11 ft) BLU-116 Advanced Unitary Penetrator (AUP) GBU-15, GBU-24, GBU-27, AGM-130

Penetration of reinforced concrete: 3.4 m (11 ft) BLU-118/B Thermobaric Warhead GBU-15, GBU-24, AGM-130

Penetration of reinforced concrete: more than 6 m (20 ft) BLU-113 Super Penetrator GBU-28, GBU-37

Fuzing

The traditional fuze is the same as a classic armor-piercing bomb: a combination of timer and a sturdy dynamic propellor on the rear of the bomb. The fuze is armed when the bomb is released, and detonates when the propellor stops turning and the timer has expired.

Modern bunker busters may use the traditional fuze, but some also include a microphone and microcontroller. The microphones listens, and the microcontroller counts floors until the bomb busts through the desired numbers of floors.

The extra speed provided by a rocket motor enables greater penetration of a missile-mounted bunker buster warhead. To reach maximum penetration (Impact depth), the warhead may consist of a high density projectile only. Such a warhead carries more energy than a warhead with chemical explosives (kinetic energy of a projectile at hypervelocity).

This technology would not be used to destroy a surface structure.
And would definitely be seen entering the ground in a crowded city. -----------------------------------------------------------------
Asbestos removal programs
A French newspaper reports that the co-owners of a 58-story Paris skyscraper will spend in excess of $144 million (about 110 million Euro) to totally remove asbestos from the building.

The owners of Tour-Montparnasse have already begun the process, which is expected to take until 2009 to complete. The skyscraper is the tallest and one of the most visited in the city, having attracted more than a half-million visitors in 2005.

”Asbestos removal and modernization of the building will cost about €110 ($144.01 million), paid by the tower's co-owners, which are for the most part institutional investors," said the tower's management company, l'Ensemble Immobilier Tour Maine-Montparnasse, in a statement. The company said the decision came after a year of technical assessment.

Most of the asbestos was found in certain parts of the tower’s false ceilings, a spokesperson reports. While it is mandatory that the co-owners remove the asbestos from the complex’s level 3, they have chosen to also remove the material from levels 1 and 2.

"Removal is done floor-by-floor, with no occupants present. The panoramic restaurant on the 56th floor will not be affected," said a statement issued by the management company.

June of 2004.Fort Worth Texas- Renovation of the Bank One Building is well underway. It is now known as The Tower and will be a residential skyscraper. Prior to being renamed The Tower the damaged building went through a post Tin Can Tower phase re-nicknamed The Condom Tower when it was sheathed in rubber during the asbestos removal process.

UPDATE:Fort Worth Texas-The Bank One Building is now renovated and people are moving in. It is now an attractive addition to the Fort Worth skyline, 5 years after the year 2000 tornado.

Did you know that a 1971 ban stopped the completion of the asbestos coating above the 64th floors of the twin towers?.So the Twin Towers would have been renovated below the 64th floor and the Asbestos removed

These programs are in play all over the world,including here in the Sault.
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Controlled demolition-

First & Goal, Paul Allen’s Holding Company, and the Construction Manager, Turner Construction Company (TCC), retaining the services of Loizeaux Group International to consider the demolition options for the removal of the Kingdome, the world’s largest thin-shelled concrete dome, covering a 660’ clear span. After more than a year and a half of structural analysis, investigation of site conditions/adjacent improvements to remain and consideration of all of the political and public relations aspects of the project, an implosion solution was considered to be the best and safest means of demolishing the structure.

TCC negotiated with Controlled Demolition, Inc. (CDI) to design the implosion of the Kingdome in a fashion which would mitigate the demolition’s impact on the community while supporting the fast-track construction of the replacement stadium for the Seattle Seahawks. CDI spent 4-½ months designing the demolition and working with TCC to generate implosion preparation and demolition specifications which TCC put out to competitive bid to a short-listed group of demolition contractors. Ultimately, a $9 million demolition contract was awarded to Aman Environmental Construction, Inc. (Aman) of Oakland, California who acted as the Prime Demolition Contractor with CDI’s implosion contract with TCC being assigned to them.

The greatest technical challenge of the Kingdome Project was to control vibration generated by the fall of 125,000 tons of concrete debris onto a reclaimed section of Seattle whose water table was just a few feet below grade. This vibration-sensitive geotechnical strata lay under critical Seattle infrastructure as well as adjacent historic, commercial and residential structures as close as 95’ away.

Rail lines serving both commuter and international service were also well within reach of the135’ tall, massive columns which circled the perimeter of the Kingdome, supporting the reinforced concrete ribs which transferred the load from the compression ring at the top to the tension ring around the perimeter of the 25,000 ton roof.

The 2,262’ long tension ring bore on 40 perimeter, U-shaped columns. An inner, concentric ring of 84 concrete columns supported seating tiers.

The free-fall felling of the 25,000 ton concrete dome alone would have created over 9 billion foot-pounds of energy, sufficient to do widespread damage given soil conditions in the area. To control vibration, CDI designed a program that would detonate small explosives charges to soften the roof structure so it would crush on impact (consuming energy) rather than letting it fall to grade intact. The implosion program divided explosives detonations into two (2) distinct but integrated phases, creating a sequential collapse to spread out the impact of debris at grade. Seating elements and ramps were pre-crushed by Aman were placed as windrows across the playing surface, below the dome, to further assist in controlling vibration from the fall of the structure.

CDI had Aman’s drilling subcontractor drill 5,905 holes for CDI’s explosive placements in the tension and compression rings, roof ribs, columns and support structure under the Kingdome. During loading operations, CDI laid 21.6 miles of detonating cord and placed more than 4,700 lb. of explosives in critical locations to control the fall of the structure and reduce vibration. The explosives detonation sequence utilized over 900 delays both to control the fall of the structure, mitigate air overpressure and to enhance fragmentation of resultant debris.

According to Tom Gerlach, Vice President in charge of removing the King County-owned stadium for TCC, “The implosion was perfectly choreographed.” Everything went off exactly as planned, and Aman managed to complete debris removal of the well-fragmented debris months ahead of the critical path schedule required by TCC.
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QUOTE-the free-fall felling of the 25,000 ton concrete dome alone would have created over 9 billion foot-pounds of energy, sufficient to do widespread damage given soil conditions in the area.
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So it would make sense that #7WTC would have been severely damaged by the uncontrolled fall of the towers.
CDI spent 4-½ months designing the demolition.
So do you really think that demolishing a building as large as the WTC could be pulled off in a few weeks?

[Chris R]

What's more puzzling is why you have NOT submitted the reference to the articles you offer as your view?

[shadowjak]

My submissions are my views on the subject at hand and are a mix of my personal knowledge of a given subject(Military Tech,Intelligence,Industrial health and safety,Actual travel in a number of different countries,Politics etc)and a mix of other sources which can include foreign and domestic Int/Strategic Analyses,Engineering firms,political/Religious sites,and friends from other countries etc.
I pick apart the information I find and try to put together an informative post that will give readers some info that they will want to research for themselves.
In the article above if you had searched for Controlled Demolition, Inc,you would have been able to access a vast amount of information on demolitions and the problems inherent in bringing any large building down.
Also if delve into the actual construction of modern skyscrapers you would have come across some very interesting safety concerns.

http://www.skyscrapersafety.org/html..._20040309.html

And the Asbestos issue is one of the biggest problems facing old miners,renovaters,anyone who worksin/repairs older buldings.Look up info on the Wittenoom asbestos mine in Western Australia where blue asbestos was mined between 1947 and 1966. The once-thriving town is now a virtual ghost town. Shops are boarded up, the 2 schools are closed, the local cinema is derelict. In their ignorance, the original settlers used asbestos in gardens, school yards and roads. Wittenoom is without doubt Australia's greatest industrial disaster and it is estimated that 25% of the 20,000 men who mined asbestos there will die from related diseases

[GenX]

Well, Shadowjak made you look quite foolish, eh Cybie???

And what's with the infatuation with lemmings? Do you realize it is just a myth they follow each other off cliffs?

Then again, you are quite fond of myths, aren't you Cybie?

http://tinfoilhat.shmoo.com/

[Chris R]

Shadowjak;i've been on here since october of 2001, and have done extensive research,and quite possibly have been on some sites you rely on!

I'm open minded enough to further my research on sites that,well,you and others would diss!


Are you saying 9-11 happened as stated by public officials?

What makes YOU an Authority on any subject vs the rest of us?

If you want to further state JFK was killed by a lone gun man, and OJ was NOT guilty as found,then i suggest "your Opinion" is, just that on 9-11!

[Soundbear]

Shadowjak, is there anything to the idea that building seven was sabotaged?? Cyber's post mentions it, and yours point out the obvious care and time that must be taken in any demolition job of this magnitude. I have seen that type of preparation on documentaries, and it is certainly not a job done quickly.

Your thoughts??

[GenX]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: cyberfox</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

I'm open minded enough

</div></div> [img]/ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/lol.gif[/img] [img]/ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/lol.gif[/img]

[shadowjak]

Quote-My submissions are my views on the subject at hand and are a mix of my personal knowledge of a given subject(Military Tech,Intelligence,Industrial health and safety,Actual travel in a number of different countries,Politics etc)-End Quote

Which means that I dont just rely on websites for my information.
personal knowledge=actual life experience.
I also have over 600 books

Quote-and a mix of other sources which can include foreign and domestic Int/Strategic Analyses,Engineering firms,political/Religious sites,and friends from other countries etc.-End Quote

I have been online since the end of the 70s.
I dont put down any site.Most sites unless they are of the joke/entertainment variety will have at least a few scraps of useful info.
And some of the sites that I am on require authorization from offline before you are able to access them.Meaning you have to be known by the site authority offline.

Quote-Are you saying 9-11 happened as stated by public officials?-End Quote

I say that members of the Al Qaeda terrorist organization hijacked airliners and flew them into the WTC and the Pentagon.
And that one attempt was foiled by members of flight 93 who died doing it.(the passengers who communicated with their loved ones didnt describe the hijackers as non-Middle Eastern).

Following the Soviet Union's withdrawal from Afghanistan, Osama bin Laden returned to Saudi Arabia. The Iraqi invasion of Kuwait in 1990 had put the Saudi Arabian ruling House of Saud at risk both from internal dissent and the perceived possibility of further Iraqi expansionism. In the face of seemingly massive Iraqi military presence, Saudi Arabia's own forces were well armed but outnumbered. Bin Laden offered the services of his Mujahideen to King Fahd to protect Saudi Arabia from the Iraqi army.

After some deliberation the Saudi Monarch refused bin Laden's offer and instead opted to allow United States and allied forces to deploy on his territory. Bin Laden considered this a treacherous deed. He believed that the presence of foreign troops in the "land of the two mosques" (Mecca and Medina) profaned sacred soil. After speaking publicly against the Saudi government for harboring American troops he was quickly forced into exile to Sudan and his Saudi citizenship was revoked.
Shortly afterwards, the movement that came to be known as al-Qaeda was formed

What this doesnt address-

Intelligence failures--
-----------------------
The terrorist attacks perpetrated on September 11, 2001 constituted a significant strategic surprise for the United States. The failure of the Intelligence Community to provide adequate forewarning was affected by resource constraints and a series of questionable management decisions related to funding priorities. Prophetically, IC leadership concluded at a high-level offsite on September 11, 1998 that "failure to improve operations management, resource allocation, and other key issues within the Intelligence Communit, including making substantial and sweeping changes in the way the nation collects, analyzes, and produces intelligence, will likely result in a catastrophic systemic intelligence failure.

The subsequent collapse of the WTC and surounding buildings
-----------------------------------------------------------
In many ways, foundation engineering is less about science and more about philosophy. Soil is perhaps one of the most elusive materials a builder will encounter. And the structures that interact with it – those that hold it back, lift it up or simply rest atop of it – are the critical interface between a world measured by fractions of an inch and another that is brimming with staggering levels of uncertainty.

For starters, the composition of soil can vary dramatically across a building site. As the makeup of the ground changes, so too does its behavior when put under pressure. Poorly predicting the soil’s behavior can leave an engineer with a building that will sink, heave, tilt, perhaps even collapse. Uncovering and conveying the properties of the soil is the job of the geotechnical engineer, who gathers information from historical records and tests conducted at the site, often through the use of borings, where a set of cylindrical samples are collected and dissected.

And then there’s water. Standing in downtown Manhattan, one can be fooled into thinking that the land under one’s feet has always been there. An immediate snapshot of New York as it is will tell an observer little about a city that has been quietly embezzling space from the encompassing harbor for centuries. The boundary between land and sea has been steadily pushed out in every direction, real estate realized with soil and fill extracted from the heart of the island. Four hundred years ago, the World Trade Center site itself was in part beyond the reaches of Manhattan land. The western portion belonged to the mouth of the Hudson River.

The distinct boundary between land and sea is an illusion. Sea walls prevent the land from tumbling into the sea, but do nothing in the reverse. Water from the Hudson River extends well beyond these permeable barriers, saturating the loose fill beneath Manhattan with water that sits mere feet beneath the surface of the city. A hole dug no deeper than a half-height cellar can be immediately inundated by the Hudson, which consumes the emptiness of virtually any underground void left unprotected. A foundation built along the fringes of Manhattan must be water-tight as well as strong enough to withstand the weight of the soil and buildings behind it.

Even an excellently designed and constructed structure will not stand on a bad foundation. Although the structure will carry its loads, the earth beneath it may not.

Quote-The free-fall felling of the 25,000 ton concrete Seattle Kingdome alone would have created over 9 billion foot-pounds of energy, sufficient to do widespread damage given soil conditions in the area-End Quote------So what would the collapse of the WTC have done to surrounding buildings???

Did you actually read this article??? It goes into great detail on the subject.And the subject is one that a lot of people want to avoid.

Quotes-
(1)In the weeks following the tragedy Regenhard founded the Skyscraper Safety Campaign (SSC). "Our first goal was getting a federal investigation into why the towers collapsed," Regenhard says, "Initially no one wanted to know. We contacted everyone from the president on down—the governor, attorney general, senators, congressmen. Nobody in New York wanted to know why the World Trade Center collapsed. The mayor's office didn't answer me. Giuliani took no leadersilip role in calling for an investigation." While pushing for an official probe, the group stumbled into the arcane and distorted world of buildling codes and safety regulations. Last year the SSC filed suit against the Port Authority of New York and New Jersey—the WTC's owner—demanding that Port Authority-owned real estate be stripped of its immunity from city building and fire department jurisdictions.

(2)Clearer lines between safety and economics appear to exist in other countries. According to Matthias Altwicker, a professor of architecture at New York Institute of Technology who practiced in Germany in the mid- 1990s, developers there are "less likly to sacrifice the user of the building for the need for floor space. You could not build the World Trade Center there. They're much stricter than the United States as far as the core of the building. Concrete is used a lot more than steel." Germany also has stricter requirements for fireproofing and distances to safety stairways.

(3)"The World Trade Center could not have been built in the United Kingdom," insists Ed Galea director of the Fire Safety Engineering Group at the University of Greenwich in London. "The number of the staircases would have been insufficient. The nature of those staircases would not have met our requirements. We would have required concrete.

(4)"The World Trade Center could not have been built in the United Kingdom," insists Ed Galea director of the Fire Safety Engineering Group at the University of Greenwich in London. "The number of the staircases would have been insufficient. The nature of those staircases would not have met our requirements. We would have required concrete.

(5)This raises a more troubling question: could the WTC have even been built on any block in New York City governed by building codes? Irving Polsky — who started working for the DOB in the late '60s and later served as executive engineer — says no. "There were people in the Buildings Department who were very unhappy with the World Trade Center's design," he says, "but they had no power to prevent it." Without the Port Authority's exemption from building regulations it's doubtful that the project could have been built in any Amrican city.

(6)"Most code changes are the result of tragedies," says Michael Clemens, a New York representative for the International Code Council (ICC) which compiles building codes for most U.S. cities, states, and municipalities.

(7)Changing codes to address tragedies is impracticable, asserts Vincent Dunn, former New York City deputy fire chief and now a consultant. "It's a slow process," he says. "Building codes change over the course of six-year cycles." Dunn looks at safety from a point of view that architects, inspectors, and gypsum salesmen almost never do: from the inside of a burning building. "The fire service believes there is a direct relation of fire resistance to mass of structure," he writes in an essay entitled "Why the World Trade Center Buildings Collapsed," on his Web site, http://www.vincentdunn.com. "The structures that limit and confine fires best are reinforced concrete, pre-WWII buildings, such as housing projects and older high-rises like the Empire State Building. The more concrete, the more fire resistance; the more concrete, the less probability of total collapse."

(8)Safety advocates say the real estate industry is handcuffed by this equation. In order to rent farther into the sky, structures need to lift the weight on each floor. In fact, the WTC marked a new day in both height and building techniques. "Conventional skyscrapers since the nineteenth century had been built with a skeleton of interior supporting columns that supports the structure," Dunn wrote. "The Twin Towers were radically differnt in structural design because the exterior walls were load-bearing.... First, they [post-war skyscrapers] eliminated the stone exterior wall. They replaced them with the 'curtain walls' of glass, sheet steel, or plastics.... Next, the masonry enclosure for stairways and elevators was replaced with several layers of Sheetrock. Then the smoke-proof masonry tower (core) was eliminated in the 1968 Building Code. It contained too much concrete weight and took up valuable floor space."

http://www.skyscrapersafety.org/html..._20040309.html

http://www.du.edu/~jcalvert/tech/failure.htm

So sabotage??Not by the Government.I would say that a poor building base coupled with many construction shortcuts and flaws led to the collapse.

My opinion and the opinions of many others,and I have the right to express it(as you and anyone else on this board has the right to express their opinions)under the laws of the Canadian Constitution

The constitutional provision that guarantees Freedom of expression in Canada is section 2(b) of the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms.

2. Everyone has the following fundamental freedoms: ... (b) freedom of thought, belief, opinion and expression, including freedom of the press and other media of communication

Quote- What makes YOU an Authority on any subject vs the rest of us?-End Quote
What makes anyone an authority on any subject?Life experience,experience in your career,knowledge.

Also I am not VS the rest of you.My views may differ from the views of others,and at times I may agree with the views of others.
At least in this society I have the freedom to express my views and not be imprisoned, tortured or executed for them.

[Soundbear]

"..no one wanted to know.."

But some of us did.

Thanks, Shadowjak.

Yeah some did and some did not.

[Soundbear]

Bingo.

[GenX]

...was his name-o

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Barry Morris</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Bingo. </div></div>

Did you win?

[darryl smith]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: cyberfox</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Shadowjak;i've been on here since october of 2001, and have done extensive research,and quite possibly have been on some sites you rely on!

I'm open minded enough to further my research on sites that,well,you and others would diss!


Are you saying 9-11 happened as stated by public officials?

What makes YOU an Authority on any subject vs the rest of us?

If you want to further state JFK was killed by a lone gun man, and OJ was NOT guilty as found,then i suggest "your Opinion" is, just that on 9-11!

</div></div>

Cybie your just so damm cute!!! [img]/ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/rofl.gif[/img]

[Wrangler35]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: barrack</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: cyberfox</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Shadowjak;i've been on here since october of 2001, and have done extensive research,and quite possibly have been on some sites you rely on!

I'm open minded enough to further my research on sites that,well,you and others would diss!


Are you saying 9-11 happened as stated by public officials?

What makes YOU an Authority on any subject vs the rest of us?

If you want to further state JFK was killed by a lone gun man, and OJ was NOT guilty as found,then i suggest "your Opinion" is, just that on 9-11!

</div></div>

Cybie your just so damm cute!!! [img]/ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/rofl.gif[/img] </div></div>

Well Shadowjak..do you believe in the lone gunman theory as presented,on the jfk assination..and further..do you believe that OJ had nothing to do with his wifes killing.

[Wrangler35]

NO answer yet!

[Wrangler35]

Well Shadowjak:are you on this board at all?