Right religion

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: bluesky</div><div class="ubbcode-body">We all think we're right and everyone else is wrong!
And I'm right!
</div></div>

They should put that right under the forum title.

[Soundbear]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: bluesky</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Let's face it. We all think we're right and everyone else is wrong!
And I'm right!
</div></div>

I haven't thought about doing it this way before. maybe I'll fine tune this as we go along.

What do I believe:

That I don't know everything? 100%

That there is Something that started this universe? 100%

That the bible tells the story? 98%

That we fully understand the bible? 95%

That man is the cause of his own misery? 100%

That no one comes to God but through Jesus? 100%

That we must believe in Jesus to be saved? 98%

Believe the Bible Stories 98%



more later.

[animal lover]

My immortal soul is just fine thank you. I've seen some of these people who act so pure and then you find out that they have had affairs etc. ..so do they really have the right to tell me how to be saved?

I don't think those people have a right to judge others when they can't even control their own temptations.

but they that's okay GOD will forgive them, and maybe he will BUT does that mean that someone who rapes or kills a child will go to heaven if he only asks for forgiveness and that a person who has been kind and good and loving to others all of their life but have a different view on religion, will burn in hell for Eternity?

that's a difficult thing to grasp

[CrowellPhotographs]

Karen made a great point. To go even further, an adulterous murdering rapist who cheats at euchre, steals from the collection at church (despite not really needing it) and spits on poor people can simply ask forgiveness and will get a free pass to "Heaven" while anyone from the other 66% of the planet who are not christian can lead an exemplary life, arguably more virtuous than Jesus'(Looses temper in Herod's Temple, destroys personal property) and will go directly to Hell(or any semblance.)

As some argue that the bible and it's messages are to be fully followed, I would love to hear an opinion of the Dead Sea Scrolls. Who, from what I understand are period relevant, topically relevant, historically traceable to those involved and referenced to in the bible, yet not accepted by the church. The funny part is that these documents apparently tell a completely different story of the church envisioned by Jesus. No surprise, but I understand that they talk about a religious system not dictated by consequences, money, buildings, obligations. but by the living the virtues of respecting your neighbor, yourself and nature.

As Jesus actions (actions speak louder than words, especially words told thru 2nd, 3rd, 4th.......... parties) are of compassion for all. Could this fear of hell thing be a sales pitch used by the church(church, not religion) to "Sell seats". What a product pitch, don't offer 30% off, offer eternal life instead of inevitable damnation. It wouldn't be a human thing to skew a beautiful idea, place, person, thing to suite our personal/financial ways, would it?

Which seems most likely?

Ever hear of Achems Razor?

[Soundbear]

"The funny part is that these documents apparently tell a completely different story of the church envisioned by Jesus.."

Now THAT'S funny.

By the way, it's Occams Razor. And you don't want to apply it to the bible.

[animal lover]

Very well said Crowell.
there are so many views on what is the true religion.

I don't understand the logic that the earth is only 6,000 years old either, as we know from dinosaurs that life on Earth has been around for a MUCH longer time.

It is also interesting to know that down thru the ages there have been many "virgin mothers who gave birth to a saviour" in different religions.

I object strongly to the practice of some "men of God" scaring people into believing what they say. Fear IS a great motivator and sometimes I wonder what would happen if churches focused on the GOOD instead of the Evil.

I believe that even without religious instruction, most people KNOW full well what they are doing is good or bad, and you don't need a priest or minister to tell you which is which.

In my Sunday school when I was a child I was told that if you danced with a boy, you would get pregnant! How truthful was that?? Again, fear as a motivater.( and a lie to boot!)
If every religion says they are the onew who will be in heaven or nirvana or what have you, how do you KNOW which is correct.
I've seen so many people twist Bible verses to suit their own purpose...i.e..Jesus did NOT turn water into wine, as in those days there was only one word for wine and grape juice, therefor Jesus (who apparently tells us to never drink alcohol) could not have turned the water into wine...he turned it into grape juice!!!!

That is what my church at the time preached. There are many more examples I could give you, but the point is, these people truly believe that they are RIGHT and the only ones who will get to heaven.

The bible is a good book, but you can't just pick and choose whatever explanation appeals to you and twist it to serve your own purpose.

I've given up on going to church. It may sound cliche' but I can easily talk to God from whever I am, and I beleive that going to church every Sunday doesn't guarantee anything.

some may say'"well how can you learna bout the Bibole?" Well as I've often answered...I can read and can interpret the bible in my own way without havving a church leader TELL me that this is what it really means.

there are simply to many distorted facts out there to know exactly what God wants from us.
Somehow I don't belive I will burn in Hell if I have a glass of wine or choose to dance.

It makes no sense to me to believe that Gwould really care about trivial things like that when there are so many HUGE problems with the world right now.

[CrowellPhotographs]

Barry,
Pardon the spelling mistake, didn't really have time to research the spelling. Regardless, please explain your point though. Why is this principal not usable when discussing this issue. Especially when referencing the parts of christianity which are written by man. We ARE in fact "inherently flawed"

Also, I'm failing to understand your "Funny" comment. Are you merely mocking the sentence structure of my point?
If clarification is needed, I will reword. From what I understand, these scrolls give Jesus' vision of his church, one which is in complete disagreement with how those in power have assembled it. If in fact the views on Christianity were implemented, there would be no room for profit.
I hope that further explains my point, if you were in fact confused.

Are you mocking the scrolls? I would ask why and how? As none of us have personally read them, or are qualified to attest to their relevance, I would assume your discredit would come from those who have something vested. Possibly I am mistaken.

You have also failed to share your opinion on any other opinions or questions asked. I'm very curious about your opinions on these points and yet you either ignore or belittle them. Have I done something to insult you?

[CrowellPhotographs]

Oops. That may be what's funny.
Please substitute the "dead sea scrolls" with "gnostic gospels"

My apologies to all.

[Soundbear]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: CrowellPhotographs</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Oops. That may be what's funny.
Please substitute the "dead sea scrolls" with "gnostic gospels"

My apologies to all. </div></div>

Right, that was it!! I just couldn't believe where you were coming from on that!!!

[Soundbear]

"I've seen so many people twist Bible verses to suit their own purpose...i.e..Jesus did NOT turn water into wine, as in those days there was only one word for wine and grape juice, therefor Jesus (who apparently tells us to never drink alcohol) could not have turned the water into wine...he turned it into grape juice!!!!"

I've seen the same thing. But you will usually find a flaw in the reasoning of strange interpretations like that if you just READ the verses - and so many people just don't do that!!

[CrowellPhotographs]

Ya, that was a pretty big oops. Apologies again.

That said, I am still curious about your opinions on the rest, as well as the gospels.

[GenX]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: dancingqueen</div><div class="ubbcode-body">people on here have in a sense "given up" on myself, and I am not 100% sure but think it is likely on others as well. Difficult question that cannot be answered and what not. I often wonder if these initial attempts where genuine concern for one's immortal soul, or a "best effort" so they can feel that they have tried and thus feel better for themselves? </div></div>

That isn't quite fair, DQ. But it may be fair to say some people have grown weary of you not truly listening. Just because you don't think something was answered does not necessarily mean it wasn't answered...it could mean you didn't like the answer, and thus categorize it as "unanswered".

I know I've repeated some issues to you five or six times, and the result is always the same.

You know what the definition of insanity is, right? Doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result. [img]/ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/wink.gif[/img]

[Limitations]

For the General Readership


It is most unjust for anyone to draw conclusions about another based on hearsay or other wrong ways.


Ms. Marisa Belsito

[Limitations]

I remember a time in the distant past when unexpectedly I was told by a vibrant female, in a matter of fact way, that I was way ahead of the times [img]/ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/blush.gif[/img]

Oh my GOD was she right and my was she such a surprise within though a very naturally feeling coincidental manner.

It is important that I emphasize that though I post in this part of the forum it is not because I believe in any religion [img]/ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/high5.gif[/img]

This is not a submission of hatred for any of you who frequent however many even in this decade nor for that matter of anyone else [img]/ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/wavey.gif[/img]

Ms. Marisa Belsito

[GenX]

Was that post for the general readership?

[Limitations]

I noted that seconds after I posted and saw no reason to edit to put that in, unless, I have valid reason to change my mind.

By the way, I have not had time to read your posting in that coffee topic area. I plan to get to it before later this evening.

As an after thought I feel it important to add that I am not assuming that you or anyone else is jumping to the conclusion that I am trying to push caffeine. [img]/ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/blush.gif[/img]

[img]/ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/wavey.gif[/img]

Ms. Marisa Belsito

[BlueSky]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: karen johns</div><div class="ubbcode-body">My immortal soul is just fine thank you. I've seen some of these people who act so pure and then you find out that they have had affairs etc. ..so do they really have the right to tell me how to be saved?</div></div>

They may not have the right, but what does this have to do with whether their message is true or not? Remember that the guy who yelled wolf once too often had no right to yell "wolf" again, because he was a liar and a sensationalist, but his exaggerations did not make his last cry any less true.


<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
but they that's okay GOD will forgive them, and maybe he will BUT does that mean that someone who rapes or kills a child will go to heaven if he only asks for forgiveness and that a person who has been kind and good and loving to others all of their life but have a different view on religion, will burn in hell for Eternity? that's a difficult thing to grasp </div></div>

Why not let God be the judge of that person?
Sounds to me like you think you have the right to hold out on God, until he turns the judge's gavel over to you, so that YOU can decide that forgiven rapist's fate.

[BlueSky]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: CrowellPhotographs</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Karen made a great point. To go even further, an adulterous murdering rapist who cheats at euchre, steals from the collection at church (despite not really needing it) and spits on poor people can simply ask forgiveness and will get a free pass to "Heaven" while anyone from the other 66% of the planet who are not christian can lead an exemplary life, arguably more virtuous than Jesus'(Looses temper in Herod's Temple, destroys personal property) and will go directly to Hell(or any semblance.)</div></div>

This is often the characterization (or I should say the caricaturization) of grace. We say that salvation (and forgiveness is by grace; i.e. a free gift.

The immediate response is this above characterization which pits the worst of sinners as forgiven and the best of non-believers as unforgiven.

It is not like that in real life. Grace changes a person. That's the point of being saved. Why would ANYONE want to be "saved" from a destructive lifestyle in order to continue in it?

Anyone who continues to live like a lecher or thief or liar or rapist or murderer aftre professing that he is a Christian, has just added another lie to his list of damnable sins.

[CrowellPhotographs]

They promote/allow confession on death row. Hardly a chance to continue or change, still saved?
As you have made address to the murderer, rapist....... why does the pure non christian still go to hell?


You talk of what happens in real life. I don't personally believe that everyone who goes to confession doesn't need to go again?
Agreed that some can make a complete 180, but It's pretty well known that in "real life" people don't change much. Or do the 33 percent of the planet who are christian would only sin once?

[Limitations]

Specifically for each Poster in this Topic Area:

My what a delightfully interesting array of responses.

I need more time to go through each person's communication to see if I am to post more myself within this topic area.

I need to wait though for when I am mentally well rested enough for concentrative purposes.

There is deep searching questioning going on, in some respects. I do not want to go too fast over any of them and or when my mind is fatigued from a lot of usage.

I plan to do it though by the end of tomorrow.

Ms. Marisa Belsito