Interpriting the Bible

[Hans]

I still don't get it. Say something to me that does not require any interpretation. It's not possible. Every word needs to be processed.

See the way the Holy Spirit communicates with people. No interpretation ever.

[Barry Morris]

See the way the Holy Spirit communicates with people. No interpretation ever.

Actually, that is quite wrong. When the "revelation" disagrees with Scripture, it's obviously wrong. That would be interpretation.

[Anapeg]

I still don't get it. Say something to me that does not require any interpretation. It's not possible. Every word needs to be processed.

So Gods word is not perfect as it stands? When I or anyone else says, "Don't do that", there is no ambiguity involved. If I say "Good morning Blue", there is no ambiguity involved. If "I say I will pick you up at 3 PM", there is no ambiguity involved. If I say "I enjoy your company but your brother is a pain in the butt", there is no ambiguity involved. Is that enough or need I say more? You ask me for specificity and all the while I am pointing to anything attributed to God, be it a direct statement or a phrase purported to be from Him. He was/is perfect, so why not the Bible he gave to you? He knows all so would he not know the times we would live in and adjust His own words and phrases to be understood at any time of mans time on earth?

[Barry Morris]

So Gods word is not perfect as it stands? When I or anyone else says, "Don't do that", there is no ambiguity involved. If I say "Good morning Blue", there is no ambiguity involved. If "I say I will pick you up at 3 PM", there is no ambiguity involved. If I say "I enjoy your company but your brother is a pain in the butt", there is no ambiguity involved. Is that enough or need I say more? You ask me for specificity and all the while I am pointing to anything attributed to God, be it a direct statement or a phrase purported to be from Him. He was/is perfect, so why not the Bible he gave to you? He knows all so would he not know the times we would live in and adjust His own words and phrases to be understood at any time of mans time on earth?

WAIT a MINUTE!!! Your examples ALL need interpretation!!!!

"Don't do that"??? Do what?? Interpretation and context needed!!!

"Good Morning, Blue" ??? That is an english idiom, obviously (to us) shortened from, "Have a good morning" or "greetings to you this morning"

"I will pick you up at three PM"??? Really?? Won';t you hurt your back??

"I enjoy your company but your brother is a pain in the butt"??? Is your brother a proctologist???

There is all KINDS of ambiguity involved in these statements, that are perfectly understandable in our culture.

The bible was written 2000 years ago, in the Middle East. I have to wonder, even today, if all those statements would directly translate into Hebrew, or Greek.

Interpretation is ALWAYS required!!!

You also said, "He knows all so would he not know the times we would live in and adjust His own words and phrases to be understood at any time of mans time on earth?"

I hope you don't mean that the writers of the original documents would write down words, phrases and idioms that would be totally incomprehensible to themselves or the people of their times???

[Bluesky]

So Gods word is not perfect as it stands? When I or anyone else says, "Don't do that", there is no ambiguity involved. If I say "Good morning Blue", there is no ambiguity involved. If "I say I will pick you up at 3 PM", there is no ambiguity involved. If I say "I enjoy your company but your brother is a pain in the butt", there is no ambiguity involved. Is that enough or need I say more? You ask me for specificity and all the while I am pointing to anything attributed to God, be it a direct statement or a phrase purported to be from Him. He was/is perfect, so why not the Bible he gave to you? He knows all so would he not know the times we would live in and adjust His own words and phrases to be understood at any time of mans time on earth?

What does perfect mean in your world? When a waitress takes my order, she says "perfect!" no matter what I order. What does she mean by that? What do you mean by 'not perfect"? In the Greek language, here is the range of meaning for the word, perfect - complete, unscathed, intact; blameless, without fault, free of blemish; impeccable; honest, devout; honesty, integrity, blamelessness, completeness

Now, you have to choose how the word is to be defined.

When you say "Don't do that." I have to determine if you NEVER want me to do that, or if it is only a temporary command. I also have to provide a noun for "that", otherwise I don't know what THAT refers to.

I can do the same thing with almost every word you used in the above paragraph. However, I interpreted what you said and I understand what you said, because I am a part of your culture, and I understand your language, and I have knowledge of the context in which this discussion is taking place. But I disagree with what you said. (nicely of course).

Someone from China who has only lived in a Chinese culture would have difficulty understand those words though, not only because of the language barrier, but the culture, history and context is foreign to him/her as well.

[RWGR]

Interpretation is ALWAYS required!!!

Interesting.

About 80% of European men, and 95% of European women, were illiterate at the time of Luther. Who did the interpreting of the Bible for them?

[Barry Morris]

Interesting.

About 80% of European men, and 95% of European women, were illiterate at the time of Luther. Who did the interpreting of the Bible for them?

I wonder?

But how much did they need??

Love God. Love your neighbor as yourself.

How much more would the average farmer need??

[RWGR]

I wonder?

But how much did they need??

Love God. Love your neighbor as yourself.

How much more would the average farmer need??

Obviously a lot, because you said earlier

Interpretation is ALWAYS required!!!

[Barry Morris]

Not surprised you really want to talk around this subject.

[RWGR]

Again, you contradict yourself, read back and see you did so, then try to place the blame on the other person.

You said both of these things in the last few hours:

1) interpretation is ALWAYS needed in the Bible

2) Love God, etc. Why would any more interpretation be needed?

Those are contradictory, BM.

[Barry Morris]

Again, you contradict yourself, read back and see you did so, then try to place the blame on the other person.

You said both of these things in the last few hours:

1) interpretation is ALWAYS needed in the Bible

2) Love God, etc. Why would any more interpretation be needed?

Those are contradictory, BM.

Sho', sho, now lets move on.

[Hans]

Actually, that is quite wrong. When the "revelation" disagrees with Scripture, it's obviously wrong. That would be interpretation.

Did Scripture not originate from the Holy Spirit?
And how do you determine that anything that disagrees with Scripture automatically means it is wrong?

[Barry Morris]

Did Scripture not originate from the Holy Spirit?

Yes.

And how do you determine that anything that disagrees with Scripture automatically means it is wrong?

See above.

[Anapeg]

What does perfect mean in your world? When a waitress takes my order, she says "perfect!" no matter what I order. What does she mean by that? What do you mean by 'not perfect"? In the Greek language, here is the range of meaning for the word, perfect - complete, unscathed, intact; blameless, without fault, free of blemish; impeccable; honest, devout; honesty, integrity, blamelessness, completeness

Now, you have to choose how the word is to be defined.

When you say "Don't do that." I have to determine if you NEVER want me to do that, or if it is only a temporary command. I also have to provide a noun for "that", otherwise I don't know what THAT refers to.

I can do the same thing with almost every word you used in the above paragraph. However, I interpreted what you said and I understand what you said, because I am a part of your culture, and I understand your language, and I have knowledge of the context in which this discussion is taking place. But I disagree with what you said. (nicely of course).

Someone from China who has only lived in a Chinese culture would have difficulty understand those words though, not only because of the language barrier, but the culture, history and context is foreign to him/her as well.

I am more clear than yourself, obviously. When I tell someone "Don't do that", it is perpetuity or, until I rescind the order. When the word perfect is used it is with the "without flaw" as in the Cambridge English dictionary-"A2 complete and correct in every way, of the best possible type or without fault:"-pure and simple. Muddy the waters as you will, the meaning is 'perfect'.

As to your waitress she may be complimenting your choice or the fact she got it without flaw. You might ask her. You see, the words are hers and you can ask her for clarification not me as i am not emboldened to the point of thinking myself capable of knowing what another meant. I take her phrase at face value.

[Bluesky]

i am not emboldened to the point of thinking myself capable of knowing what another meant.

Exactly. This is why interpretation is needed, even when God speaks. Because He used the language of human authors. Human language evolves and is dependent on customary usage, which we need to learn. You've made my point.

[Hans]

Yes.



See above.

Bluesky says the opposite.

See above.

[Barry Morris]

Nope.

[Anapeg]

Exactly. This is why interpretation is needed, even when God speaks. Because He used the language of human authors. Human language evolves and is dependent on customary usage, which we need to learn. You've made my point.

To complete the thought: I am not emboldened to the point of thinking myself capable of knowing what another meant and it is not my place to translate what she meant. As it is not your place to translate the words of a God. I left the last part out thinking it self evident. Shall we call a draw as neither of us is going to ever change our opinions and this could go on for weeks?

[Barry Morris]

...As it is not your place to translate the words of a God. ...

I don't read Greek or Hebrew. You??

[Hans]

Nope.

I see, that makes a lot of sense.