why??

[heintzman]

can you tell me why there is a designation for an individual to preach the word of god, and tell the stories of the bible,,,??
time after time , i have to bring this question to myself , as i am sure others do,,,when preachers, fathers, etc. continually disappoint us! time and time again!,,,, i was brought up to believe that these people were to be considered of the utmost , highest , respecting people,,, and they are continually disappointing us! I myself have personal experience , so don't even go there, but those girls that came out in chapleau, the poor individuals,,, the life the thought they were suppose to live , was a sham! a complete sham,,, the person who they thought they were suppose to trust the most ,,, was abusing them in the worst way!!
my point being,, and i have been thinking about this,, is,,, the word of the bible is taught to young people ,, as they grow up,,, and superior figures , are doing wrong, why would God allow this,,,, this is a question i have been asking for decades,,, why would the almighty god allow this?

[Seraph]

I was at a service the other week, I attend a United Church, and I am answering the call of Ministry.

We laughed, the one minister and myself. It was about our differences.
She spoke of her formal education, while I spoke of handing out food to the homeless.

She'd attended some of the finest schools, and I've been through the school of hard knocks. But we had one thing in common. The call to ministry.

Should you care to know any more about this the United Church of Canada has a very detailed page about the calls that one answers in service to God and Church.

My advice can only be given from my own experience.
God does not appoint people to work for him. These are the declarations of man in the best interests of the church. Whether they be the will of God, or a complex political system, one should think to question.

The road to becoming a minister for me means officially working at a church for a period of time with additional education and approval from a panel of people who will decide if I am right to work at the church.

While the punch line for our laughter that day in Church was that I just had to get through all the red tape to officially be a minister, as in God's eyes I already live to serve his plan.

God has no money, politics or social order. These are the institutions of man. Even if I am not now a recognized minister, in the hearts of those who I assist and inspire on a day to day basis I am doing the work of God.

One day I wish to become a minister and speak my sermons to a community of faith, not to teach religion or the laws of man. To inspire hope, and kindle the spirit within each to love without fear.

Hopefully this settles your mind some, anything you wish to get off your shoulders is a welcome load on mine!

Love And Blessings

[Bluesky]

Seraph, I have noticed that you have a wonderful way of not answering a question. The above poster was not asking about how to get into ministry. She/he was asking a question about the problem of evil IN the ministry. Why does God allow people who supposedly act and speak in His name to abuse others who are entrusted to their care, so horribly?

On another note, you consider yourself a pantheist, and the UCC is willing to make you one of their ministers? They sure have come a long way!

[Seraph]

Did you read the whole post?
I won't go back to grammar school for one person, but it's called an essay answer.
He asked about corruption in the clergy, I provided an example of how one church chooses their clergy. It flows between points with reference to experiences and mentions of good people within the Ministry.
There is a transsexual woman studying to be a minister at my old church and they also celebrate the Buddha's birthday and have the High Holy Days celebrated. The United Church here is 12 years behind. This was stated to me by a local minister. This month we finally have a welcoming the gay family seminar. Something the churches in the GTA have been on the ball with for the last two decades.
The United Church is universal love and acceptance through Christ.
If you hadn't figured out what a pantheist IS yet, you'd make the obvious connection.
Next time you wish to quarrel a point with me, make it more challenging please.

[Anapeg]

Blue, this is what I was up against for the last 52 years. Assinine smile, folded hands and all.

Corky asks about abuse in the church and how YOUR God allows it to happen and you give her a sermon/add. Interesting, not at all surprising but interesting.
Before you lip off remember the person to whom you are speaking may have first hand knowledge of which he speaks. Temper your replies.

[KDawg]

There is a transsexual woman studying to be a minister at my old church and they also celebrate the Buddha's birthday and have the High Holy Days celebrated. The United Church here is 12 years behind. This was stated to me by a local minister. This month we finally have a welcoming the gay family seminar. Something the churches in the GTA have been on the ball with for the last two decades.
The United Church is universal love and acceptance through Christ.

Where do biblical teachings, Christ's teachings, fit in?

[Seraph]

Jesus Loves Everyone.

Where don't they fit in?

[Bluesky]

Oh bother. We have another pretentious intellectual on board "who doesn't want to argue" and who thinks she knows something. Look out. Sparks are going to fly for awhile.

[Slow]

Jesus Loves Everyone.

Where don't they fit in?

They fit in. Their actions do not.

[1337]

You can be gay,have gay thoughts, you just can't act on them.

[Slow]

You can be gay,have gay thoughts, you just can't act on them.

There are lots of thoughts and urges we can have, but should not act upon them. Most of us fail, many times. Still doesn't mean those thoughts and urges are not intrinsically against the natural order of a world created by an omniscient and loving God.

True freedom is the ability to do what is right, not simply what you want to do. That is mere licentiousness.

[Seraph]

I'm from this point on ignoring all posts by Sky because I am under the impression that this person is someone who will challenge and diminish the quality of debate and conversation with immature ideas such as stated above.

There is your spark, and no more.

When one considers the acts of certain people in the bible as being inappropriate one must also consider that it is not only gay people who are frowned upon in this light.
Adulterers, people who are divorced, anyone who lies, if you touch the skin of a pig, if you wear clothes that are made of different threads, if you work on a Sunday.

Or is this Leviticus we're speaking of? Oh yes, that's right it is.

Didn't someone, oh I don't know. Die for our sins so that we may be forgiven and enter the gates of the kingdom?

If not forgive me, this is a whole huge argument that I have no place in.

I think that it was covered on a television show, I'll search up this link although I've never watched it myself. I've heard of it being a good one so here I go looking up this little clip I was told to laugh about a few years back.

West Wing- Homosexuality

Oh wow I found the transcript! Yay me eh?

President Josiah Bartlet: Good. I like your show. I like how you call homosexuality an abomination.
Dr. Jenna Jacobs: I don't say homosexuality is an abomination, Mr. President. The Bible does.
President Josiah Bartlet: Yes it does. Leviticus.
Dr. Jenna Jacobs: 18:22.
President Josiah Bartlet: Chapter and verse. I wanted to ask you a couple of questions while I have you here. I'm interested in selling my youngest daughter into slavery as sanctioned in Exodus 21:7. She's a Georgetown sophomore, speaks fluent Italian, always cleared the table when it was her turn. What would a good price for her be? While thinking about that, can I ask another? My Chief of Staff Leo McGarry insists on working on the Sabbath. Exodus 35:2 clearly says he should be put to death. Am I morally obligated to kill him myself or is it okay to call the police? Here's one that's really important because we've got a lot of sports fans in this town: touching the skin of a dead pig makes one unclean. Leviticus 11:7. If they promise to wear gloves, can the Washington Redskins still play football? Can Notre Dame? Can West Point? Does the whole town really have to be together to stone my brother John for planting different crops side by side? Can I burn my mother in a small family gathering for wearing garments made from two different threads? Think about those questions, would you? One last thing: while you may be mistaking this for your monthly meeting of the Ignorant Tight-*** Club, in this building, when the President stands, nobody sits.

[Slow]

"Didn't someone, oh I don't know. Die for our sins so that we may be forgiven and enter the gates of the kingdom?"

So Jesus died so we could go on sinning, with no repercussions?

Welcome to Once Saved, Always Saved, one of the most dangerous theologies in Christian history.

[Soundbear]

Blue, this is what I was up against for the last 52 years. Assinine smile, folded hands and all.

Corky asks about abuse in the church and how YOUR God allows it to happen and you give her a sermon/add. Interesting, not at all surprising but interesting.
Before you lip off remember the person to whom you are speaking may have first hand knowledge of which he speaks. Temper your replies.

Seraph gave the sermon, not Blue.

[Seraph]

Oh I totally agree with you Slow!
So now that all of our past sins are forgiven, and no one is going to be burned alive for wearing modern fashions, we cannot rely solely on the morals as defined by the old testament. As we are in a new age, the age of Jesus Christ, as a Christian person (yes Christians exist who study other religions and respect them as pantheists!) My morality stands at the point of this:

While our sins are forgiven, is that all we seek?

Sure, not going to hell to burn in a pit of agony is nice. But getting to be by the side of GOD in heaven is more like a long term goal for me personally.

Why is it that people once thought of slavery as being OK? Why is it that we stoned people to death and that was OK in the Bible?

I love GOD and I love the Bible and I think it's wrong to pick and choose which parts to go by and obey. However what if I have to work on a Sunday? Ministers work on Sundays!

So where do we draw our moral lines from?

While I will stand against any person, gay or straight who commits harmful sexual activities, I will not damn or condemn as it is GODS place to judge. While someone may find love in a partner who is sexually not appropriate according to the Old Testament, I would be in support of this union if it were a positive relationship that encouraged the growth of love and happiness in God. I would in the same turn frown upon a relationship that is heterosexual which is unsanctioned or filled with abuse and neglect. The point is not who the relationship is between, but what occurs in the relationship. Is it stable? Positive? Faithful? Committed? Great! Then who am I to look upon it badly? Sure there are many homosexual and heterosexual couples in unhealthy relationships but it is my idea to conclude that at the time the Bible was written the society at the time saw nothing positive in non heterosexual relationships, and found that the majority of homosexual relationships were dishonest and negative. Which considering the historical facts surrounding the abuse and poor treatment of young boys and the scandalous dealings of Roman politicians hiring Gladiators and being inappropriate in bath houses, one would only stand against such actions. Today however we find that in our society many homosexual families are raising children and maintaining healthy and positive relationships. Although one might not be completely comfortable with this idea, it is still not going against any true moral principals.

This is the purpose of the conference, the fee is $25 if anyone would like to attend but I really do recommend the full event that includes diner and entertainment. I'm excited to learn more about this topic so I have been registered to attend the full event as I do with all such events within my church.

Rather than arguing with people who are opinionated and possibly not as well informed as the speakers and professionals at the conference, I'd like to see what the church has to say!

[Soundbear]

I'm from this point on ignoring all posts by Sky because I am under the impression that this person is someone who will challenge and diminish the quality of debate and conversation with immature ideas such as stated above.

I don't think you want to debate either, Seraph.

You're long winded and liberal. You want the love of God, but don't care about His holiness. You want it your way, and think that's a natural law.

Good luck with God, there, honey.

[Seraph]

Seraph gave the sermon, not Blue.

However my response required no control of temperament and if it did I apologize. I think Anapeg can discern who posted what. So far he's been a brilliant poster and I've enjoyed much of his writing, thank you!

[Soundbear]

Oh I totally agree with you Slow!
So now that all of our past sins are forgiven, and no one is going to be burned alive for wearing modern fashions, we cannot rely solely on the morals as defined by the old testament. As we are in a new age, the age of Jesus Christ, as a Christian person (yes Christians exist who study other religions and respect them as pantheists!) My morality stands at the point of this:

While our sins are forgiven, is that all we seek?

Sure, not going to hell to burn in a pit of agony is nice. But getting to be by the side of GOD in heaven is more like a long term goal for me personally.

Why is it that people once thought of slavery as being OK? Why is it that we stoned people to death and that was OK in the Bible?

I love GOD and I love the Bible and I think it's wrong to pick and choose which parts to go by and obey. However what if I have to work on a Sunday? Ministers work on Sundays!

So where do we draw our moral lines from?

While I will stand against any person, gay or straight who commits harmful sexual activities, I will not damn or condemn as it is GODS place to judge. While someone may find love in a partner who is sexually not appropriate according to the Old Testament, I would be in support of this union if it were a positive relationship that encouraged the growth of love and happiness in God. I would in the same turn frown upon a relationship that is heterosexual which is unsanctioned or filled with abuse and neglect. The point is not who the relationship is between, but what occurs in the relationship. Is it stable? Positive? Faithful? Committed? Great! Then who am I to look upon it badly? Sure there are many homosexual and heterosexual couples in unhealthy relationships but it is my idea to conclude that at the time the Bible was written the society at the time saw nothing positive in non heterosexual relationships, and found that the majority of homosexual relationships were dishonest and negative. Which considering the historical facts surrounding the abuse and poor treatment of young boys and the scandalous dealings of Roman politicians hiring Gladiators and being inappropriate in bath houses, one would only stand against such actions. Today however we find that in our society many homosexual families are raising children and maintaining healthy and positive relationships. Although one might not be completely comfortable with this idea, it is still not going against any true moral principals.

This is the purpose of the conference, the fee is $25 if anyone would like to attend but I really do recommend the full event that includes diner and entertainment. I'm excited to learn more about this topic so I have been registered to attend the full event as I do with all such events within my church.

Rather than arguing with people who are opinionated and possibly not as well informed as the speakers and professionals at the conference, I'd like to see what the church has to say!

You post like our atheists. All BS, tons of comments, no room for disagreement.

Neat that you agree with Slow. But don't ask him how to get into heaven, he hasn't got a clue.

[Seraph]

His holiness is all I am concerned in preserving, nothing other than that. So I will challenge the laws of man. My postings are not for debate. They are for sharing my opinion so that one who is seeking answers may examine the perspective of someone who's studied Theology in depth for the last 10 years. Mainly ancient religions and eastern tradition while maintaining a strong love for Christianity.

Such a charge is quite disrespectful, although I understand your human reasoning and offense taken, it is very much unwarranted, please relax and smile a bit. Hey RAINBOW!

[Soundbear]

However my response required no control of temperament and if it did I apologize. I think Anapeg can discern who posted what. So far he's been a brilliant poster and I've enjoyed much of his writing, thank you!

I suspect that Blue might be expressing some Godly anger, which of course you have no clue about.